/ Winter Self rescue

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
george mc - on 26 Nov 2011
Impressive and gritty video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ovr55k6evE&feature=colike

Good effort by those chaps.
George Fisher - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

I'd like to think I'd be as resourceful and composed in that situation.

I might just have a little sit down and a cry instead.
Tdubs - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:
Wow. Lots of respect. I won't lie, when the words "uphill" "soft snow" and "another mile" came on the screen my heart actually sank. Loved the Touching the Void nod.
Franco Cookson on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

That's wicked. Great effort. I wish I had had a helmet cam on the grand cap.
skarabrae - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc: indeed, excellent.
hope i never have to emulate them!!
veteye - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:
Good stuff.
I presume that they just left one rope behind.
I wonder if having old fashioned ice-axes would have helped get out of there more quickly.Having a straight shaft and a decent point may have been able to give some support on the uphill soft snow.(Not particularly advocating old technology,just musing).
Great tenacity by both climbers and all credit to them for keeping their cool.
george mc - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to veteye:
> (In reply to george mc)
> Good stuff.
> I wonder if having old fashioned ice-axes would have helped get out of there more quickly.Having a straight shaft and a decent point may have been able to give some support on the uphill soft snow.

I think the chap's shattered ankle and a large hole in his quad possibly limited the speed of his escape more than the support from his axes ;)

Hence the crawl/drag out.
highclimber - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc: Epic video! I hope to never have to abseil on one leg with severely damaged ropes!
Tim Chappell - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:


Ouch, ouch, and triple ouch. Standing half way up a cliff on a broken ankle is no fun. And while you're there you're already thinking (a) is this the end of my climbing career? (b) am I going to make it out of here? and (c) shit, why didn't I put more gear in on that last bit/ take a different route/ keep off the snowfield/ etc etc etc? Keeping it together when there's no helicopter coming for you can't be easy either.

Brilliant job getting out of trouble. Good job they had two ropes, and that the weather wasn't too bad. Shame they didn't carry walking poles, which would have helped on the hop-out.

I hope they both made full physical and mental recoveries.

I never realised American mixed routes could look this much like Scotland!
Owain - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc: Good post George, its a good insight into a situation that we may find ourselves in.
thomm - on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:
Fascinating, thanks for posting. Great effort by them. I might practise a spot of one-footed abseiling...
jimjimjim on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc: Yeah...good video. Needs a better thread title, i didn't click on it for ages. Hard boys. Excuse my ignorance, American or Canadian?
connor on 26 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:
absolutley ace effort

Minneconjou Sioux - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

Excellent. Not quite sure about Boney M's "brown girl in the ring" though ;-)
Andy_B39 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Minneconjou Sioux: Surely its in there as a Touching The Void reference.
Minneconjou Sioux - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Andy_B39:

Ah yes. That makes sense now.
ice.solo - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

Have a peep at will gadds blog. He gives a great blurb about the vid with his usual enthusiasm.

Me i just keep whincing about the long crawl with no splint on the ankle. Jeezuz.
Impressive guys who kept it together.
J Brown - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

Really impressive stuff.

(Good soundtrack too).
ice.solo - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to ice.solo:

forgot to say, will put up some stuff from the guy who got mangled.
jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to ice.solo:
> (In reply to george mc)
>
> with no splint on the ankle.

I was also wondering if an tied on ice axe would have stopped flopping, though assumed that if there had been some he would have sorted it anyway.
Owain - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to ice.solo: I read the blog and Ed's reply. Really good to see this come to light so climbers can learn from mistakes made.

I was wondering though, what is a ti-block and how does it work?

For those intrested: http://willgadd.com/?cat=1
jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Owain:
>
> I was wondering though, what is a ti-block and how does it work?

I hope that was not a wah: http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/multi-purpose-ascenders-0/tibloc
Owain - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to jonnie3430: Ah makes sense now - it was spelt ti-block on the blog.
George Fisher - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to

How is a Tibloc used whilst moving together as a protective measure? Is that what is being suggested?

Ive used one as an ascender and in hauling but I'm interested in other uses.
jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

For tibloc substitute ropeman:

"Simul-climbing with Ropemen runners

On ice an effective mode of simul-climbing is to attach a Ropeman ascending device to the rope at each ice screw runner. If the second climber slips the Ropeman instantly locks the rope and prevents the load pulling the leader off. On ice the full length of the rope may be used with screws and Ropemen placed every 25-50m. This method could also be applied on rock pitches with fixed piton or bolt runners. The team needs to carry three or more Ropeman to apply this method over long stretches of terrain."
http://www.climber.co.uk/categories/articleitem.asp?cate=4&topic=12&item=156

I think, and therefore may be wrong, that tibloc spikes grip the sheath and not the core, therefore tear the sheath from the core at about 400kg static, or 4kN dynamic load? If the cam action of the tibloc crushes the core, then it may be susceptible to cutting as discussed by Andy K, though I can't find the article adn he has a new website.
George Fisher - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to jonnie3430:

Cheers

That was my first thought but having used the Tibloc in several systems and noting that it doesn't exactly run freely if pulled at an angle, I'd have though having this left between two climbers unattended would be potential hastle. A jammed Tibloc would leave the leader unable to continue and also unable to take in slack to put a second on belay. Having done no roped simul climbing this is all speculation. Anyone done this?
Ben Briggs - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Gfunk: I use a tibloc alpine climbing sometimes, its usefull if your moving together and there is a section of tricky ground. The leader can place one just after it so if the second falls they dont get pulled off, that way you dont have to waste time setting up a belay and bringing the second up. Never had a problem with them jamming but does increase rope drag a bit. Use them over a ropeman just due to the lighter weight.
Dave 88 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Ben Briggs:

I've no experience of these kinds of set-ups, if the leader falls, doesn't that place enormous strain on the last piece if gear? Or does the tibloc only lock on one way? Sorry never used one.
George Fisher - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Ben Briggs:

Cool, good to know. Do you just clip it with a normal draw or a screwgate on a sling? I'll have a play with one sometime.
jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Dave 88:

If the leader falls the strain on the last bit of gear is the same as a normal leader fall, the force goes down and pulls the second up, which should stop the fall. The tibloc/ropeman would cathc the second if they fell, stopping the load from passing to the leader and pulling them down.

Ben, I do similar to you and remember the tricky bits as I pass them, but instead of using an autobloc, try to find a stance or bolt when the second is near and body belay or direct belay them over it.

As I said a few posts ago, there is potential to damage the rope in falling onto ropemen or tiblocs, so I don't do it.
ads.ukclimbing.com
jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Dave 88:
> (In reply to Ben Briggs)
>
> only lock on one way?

Sorry. Yes it only locks one way.
Timmd on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Ben Briggs:It's my understanding that Tiblocs can strip rope sheaths more than a Ropeman 2 can do.

Tim
Ben Briggs - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to jonnie3430: Its a speed thing for me if you want to cover a 1000m vert in a day you need to keep moving, slack in the system should be kept to a minimum that way the second isnt going to take a proper fall onto the ropeman/ tibloc. I would rather damage a rope than take a huge wipper because the secOnd pulls you off. At the end of the day its just reducing the risk of moving together a little and if you think there is actually any risk of anyone falling you should be pitching.
Wee Davie - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

Thanks for posting this. Great video.
Conditions looked like the Gorms on a good day!!!
Brilliant attitude on the pair of them- totally determined and positive all the way.
Great tunes too.
Ben Briggs - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Timmd: Yeah i think thats true, i have two ropeman but there heavy. In a rack consisting of as little as possible they are alot of extra weight for something that will get little or no use.
Timmd on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Gfunk:
> (In reply to george mc)

> I might just have a little sit down and a cry instead.

I think I would too, and then think about getting out. I'm amazed at how well he kept it together. I wonder if having a camera to narrate to helped at all, in providing a little bit of a distraction or a way of mentally distancing himself before getting on with escaping? Amazing fortitude either way.
Ben Briggs - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Wee Davie: yeah good video and the guys did a great job getting themselfs out of the sh*t. Interesting reading will gadds blod too.
Timmd on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to Ben Briggs:
> (In reply to Timmd) Yeah i think thats true, i have two ropeman but there heavy. In a rack consisting of as little as possible they are alot of extra weight for something that will get little or no use.

The weight difference probably wouldn't slow you down though, i've got a couple of Ropemen 2 and have handled Tiblocs. I'd find a stripped rope a pain in the neck, but I guess it's a personal choice. May stripped ropes not plauge you. (:-))
Reynolds 531 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:
Next time you think - hey - I live in a modern world and can just call 999 and folk will dash to my aid - why not take a leaf out of these guys' book and think - me and my mate can sort ourselves out.

We haven't lost self-reliance but most folk just want the easy option. As a member of a rescue team I totally agree that sometimes 999 might be the only option and I'm only happy to help, but quite a few people could have sorted themselves out.

Well done fellas and thanks for posting it George.
Dave 88 - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to jonnie3430:

Cheers for the info mate.
Owain - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to chris65:
> We haven't lost self-reliance but most folk just want the easy option. As a member of a rescue team I totally agree that sometimes 999 might be the only option and I'm only happy to help, but quite a few people could have sorted themselves out.


Would you say that these folk you speak of are likely to be winter climbers?
wilkie14c - on 27 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:
Excellant video, essencial viewing for winter climbers. We all like to think we'd cope as well but when the shit hits the fan would we?
Don't show your mrs!

heavy - on 28 Nov 2011
In reply to george mc:

Hardy boys, maybe this is why the MR teams are so quiet?

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.