UKC

I translated the table from SCC into French grades, in case anyone is interested:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_GB&hl=en_GB&key=0AhKt...

So, now for the question - do you agree with it? According to the table, if I consistently boulder V5/V6 I should be able to redpoint 7c+, climb continuously at 6c-6c+, lap routes at 7a-7b and climb 10-15 7a+s in a session. I think I can boulder at that level but as to the rest, no chance! This could be because

1. I'm genuinely low on aerobic endurance and stamina
2. the bouldering grades in Boulders are soft
3. the book is geared towards US climbing where endurance may play a greater part
5. all of the above.

What do you lot think is a realistic continuous climbing/endurance level to make a well rounded climber out of a V5/V6 boulderer?

In reply to Stone Muppet:


The table is roughly right and will be for consistently bouldering at that grade outdoors rather than indoors and yes bouldering at V5-6 is consistent with redpointing 7c+ irrespective of whether good boulderers underperform in this respect.

I did an interpretation of the table too here: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,12503.msg222687.html#msg22268...

In reply to Stone Muppet:

I think we want to know what point 4. on your list was.

(Good job btw, I've been meaning to do a similar thing for ages!)

In reply to Fraser: Cheers Oh and I will leave point 4 to your imagination.

In reply to Stone Muppet:

I don't think Boulders is soft compared to most climbing walls I've been to, it seems to be fairly reasonable. I guess that if you really can boulder V6 consistently as your maximum, then you should be able to transfer that to the routes as listed. Not read all of SCC, but I would take that to be Maximum as in comfortably able to onsight any V5/6 without too much faff.

While we're at it, does anyone care to suggest how the lines in that table translate to (safe) trad? (Bold trad can be figured out separately in the usual way, adding grades for deck potential...)

In reply to Stone Muppet:

Now I'm back at a power source.....

Isn't your starting premise wrong? The table says that for fast redpoints or onsights of 7c+ you would probably be looking at climbing those levels, not that if you can boulder V6 you should be able to manage all the rest.

For you though, if you can do V6 consistently (and as Simon says, they probably mean outdoors rather than in) the reason you aren't climbing 7c+ yet is probably not due to a lack of raw strength. That's what the table really tells you...

In reply to mattrm:


For bouldering I would have thought they define maximum as the hardest problem you are able to consistently redpoint, or consistently do in a session - ie 10 tries.

If you can comfortably onsight V5/6 then it is not at your physical maximum, which is what the chart is about. More likely your maximum is somewhere around V7/8+.

In reply to Quiddity:

Agree. If bouldery 7c is say V5/6 crux (chiselling the dragon & everyday lives I guess we could both agree on for that) then being able to onsight V5/6 comfortably is way overkill for only one grade harder.

In reply to Stone Muppet:

I think indoor bouldering grades are slipping well out of line with reality. Can't comment specifically on Boulders but up here I can flash a good number of V5/6 problems in the local walls. Outdoors I work a handful a year, in fact I could probably count the haul of V5+ problems ticked since I moved back on my fingers. Obviously I generalise but IMHO indoor V5/6 more like real world V2/3. Bouldering ability also translates poorly to routes, routes at your limit require specific skills and endurance. I've yet to try a Limestone route in the mid-7s with moves that require more than real world V4ish ability, the difficulty is stringing them together. I don't think there's a lot of truth in these 'if you can do x you're capable of y' tables. If you can do x you can do x

Perhaps they're better read as training objectives, when you can do a few of the tasks on a given line the others should be easily achievable which doesn't mean that your best regular performance in any given column has to be on that row. The endurance task grades do seem high to me, maybe we're both unfit!

All that said, I doubt you're far off being able to RP 7c+ if you pick your route and settle into a lengthy siege.

jk

In reply to jkarran:

They do seem to go for a lot more focus on the aerobic system than we in the UK probably do - a combination of the fact (I'm told) that places like Red River Gorge are as absolutely pumpy as sin and then some and the British mentality that the solution is always to get a bit stronger in order to make the moves feel easier rather than to get a bit fitter so you can do them for longer? I wonder how proper euro-stamina wads would view this table...?

In reply to jkarran:


To be fair I don't think that is what the chart in question is about. The general thrust is saying - on a route of grade X, the hardest crux sequence you are likely to encounter is Y. If you can't boulder grade Y, you need to sort it out. If you can already boulder Y, great, but if you are not already getting up routes of grade X then trying to increase your bouldering from Y to Y+1 or Y+2 is barking up the wrong tree because it is not your bouldering strength that is holding you back.

In reply to Quiddity:

I just see it as a guideline for being a well-rounded rock climber. Unless there's a damn good rest beforehand, I'd rather have a boulder grade or two in reserve for my redpoint cruxes!

In reply to Stone Muppet:
*dullard question alert*

What is a 4x4 (in the comparison table)?

Ta

In reply to jkarran: I have been wondering exactly this about indoor grades. Outdoors locally I can only just struggle up V3 but then that's Kennelgarth which is reputedly hard so far as I can gather. Elsewhere I have sent a couple of V5s 2nd go but more usually I'm working problems around V3-V4. To be honest I don't boulder outdoors a lot mainly due to lack of bouldering round here.

Hope you've been making the most of these sunny days on the grit!

In reply to 999thAndy:

4 blocks of 4 problems, insufficient rest between the blocks, no rest between individual problems. Power endurance training without ropes.
jk

In reply to 999thAndy:

Pick 4 boulder problems around the specified grade. Climb them all with no rest in between (move from one to the next as fast as you can). Then timed rest for 2-3 minutes. Repeat another three times. Hence four sets of four problems = 4x4.

In reply to Stone Muppet:

Many ways to skin that particular cat though - you can have grades in reserve on the absolute strength or you can make the rest better by getting fitter. Depending on what you've trained previously and your strengths one may be a lot easier than the other... I suspect that stereotypically Brits are overstrong an underfit and so should, if they can stomach the boredom, find the endurance work gives faster gains...?

Aye maybe. I found it noticeable that I thought Spanish 7a harder than British this year, whereas people who spend time out there find the opposite because our routes are generally cruxier. Which would hint that there's sense to the strength approach over here, but as you say, that faster gains may be seen on the endurance front - especially for trad eh...

In reply to Stone Muppet and jkarran:

Ta muchly, next question: is that repeat the same 4 problems, or find another 4? Or doesn't it matter?

In reply to 999thAndy: Doesn't matter, though in practice because you are picking the grade of your problems quite carefully, you're unlikely to find 16 suitable problems close enough so repeat.

I only did this for the first time a couple of days ago, on an indoor wall, found it worked to have around 6 problems to choose from so I could jump straight onto another if one of them was occupied.