/ anyone spotted any decent ice screw deals out there?

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Run_Ross_Run - on 26 Dec 2011
Hi

Are there any really good deals on ice screws online at the moment?

Shout them out if there are.

Looking for 20 - 25 (cm) I think.

Merry Christmas.
timjones - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09:
> Hi
>
> Are there any really good deals on ice screws online at the moment?
>
> Shout them out if there are.
>
> Looking for 20 - 25 (cm) I think.
>
> Merry Christmas.

Are you sure you really want 20 to 25 cm?

I carry one 22 for abalakovs, 2x19 and all the rest are 13 or 16cm. Even the 19's are likely to be retired soon.

cliff shasby - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to timjones: i have just replaced most of mine and got more longer screws,in most cases on continental ice longer screws will go, and only take a few more turns,most 10-12-13 cm screws are'nt rated at full strength..
although longer screws are of course heavier...!
at least thats my take on it...:-)

cliff....
Al Randall on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09: I think BD or Petzl did some tests on this and found that short screws were almost as strong as long ones. It's the threads that provide the strength and as short screws have the same number as long that would make sense. If that is the case I'm not sure why they said "almost" though. Most of your screws should be 16 or 17 cms.

Al
timjones - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to cliff shasby:
> (In reply to timjones) i have just replaced most of mine and got more longer screws,in most cases on continental ice longer screws will go, and only take a few more turns,most 10-12-13 cm screws are'nt rated at full strength..
> although longer screws are of course heavier...!
> at least thats my take on it...:-)
>
> cliff....

I'm sure tests have been done that indicate that shorter screws perform beyond their rated strengths. I'm certainly exceedingly comfortable with 16s and it's useful to have some 13s for thinner ice.

I find anything above 16 can be a real pain in the arse (or more literally the thighs) as they "flap" around on your harness spiking anything within range ;(
neilnt - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09:

Other than a couple of 22cm screws (for the belay on multi pitch climbs) I go with 16cm BD express screws or 16cm Grivel 360. One or two shorter screws if the ice is looking thin.

I agree that having too many longer screws is a pain in the arse, for racking, placing and lugging around (they are a fair bit heavier).

The only deals ever to be found on ice screws, are with old screws that are hard to place, which is the reason why nobody wants to buy them.

The cheap way to go ice climbing is to find someone who has a whole rack of screws and to go climbing with them.

Yours,

Neil Newton Taylor
Rick Ashton - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09: Elite mountain supplies have some great deals and packages for screws
Run_Ross_Run - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09:

Cheers for all the advice so far.

Looks like 'the outdoor shop' has the best deals so far. 35-39 quid for 13-19's.

cliff shasby - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to timjones:
I think i read that about the threads being the same strength,this is great if the ice is rock hard all the way to the surface but unfortunately this is not always the case.
I used to carry an assortment mainly 16cm a couple of 13cm and a couple of 22cm 360's for belays.(i think the best screw for belays as you can get them into smaller gaps between chandelier ice and bumps/cauliflower ice etc,but a pain to rack/place on the lead).
Experience has tought me that the ice is nearly always harder and more solid/less aerated the deeper you go hence when i replaced my bd'd for helix screws which again i learned place better/easier/faster at least for me.. i went 50/50 on 15's and 20's (they used to be 22cm).
Also it seems the more i climb harder ice,wi5+/6 pillars etc the more i come across chandelier/aerated ice where the screw goes in too easily at first then bites into more solid/stable ice as the screw goes in.
Clearing ice like this would be a pointless and energy sapping pastime and climbing with nomics negates this option anyway

Ive yet to replace my shorter screws but of course its still good to have a couple when you dont have a choice because the ice is too thin.
this guy seems to think longer screws make stronger anchors...

http://hmga.gr/storehouse/word-acrobat/Ice%20Climbing%20Anchor%20Strength%20-%20MRA%202009%20-%20Mar...

Whether it does or does not,i know i'll feel safer on those hard brittle routes,im not about to get into the typical ukc argument just simply explaining my reasons for this experience led choice....

The longer screws might be a bit of a pain to carry yet only time will tell,but really its only 6 screws that are 4cm longer,and this year im going to try the grivel end caps(black hole)to save my salopettes,i reckon i can remove them easily with my teeth before placing but again time will tell....:-)

cheers cliff....
neilnt - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to cliff shasby:

Hi Cliff,

Actually the report from J. Marc Beverly & Stephen W. Attaway that you are quoting there is referring to "Re-bored Screws" only. If you read their other very interesting report "Dynamic Shock Load Evaluation of ice screws: A real-world look" you would find that it says in the results:

"What was observed is that the stubby screws saw high impact forces of nearly 15kN without failure."

As well as a lot of other useful info on screw angle and placement.

I found a link to the the whole report on Will Gadd's blog 8th March 2011:

http://willgadd.com/?cat=1&paged=3

Oh and leaving the caps on the screws is not that good, Grivel make something called a panpipe (Coz it looks like one) which works better for up to five screws. I've got one, and I don't use it often, but it is better than having to deal with the endcaps.

Yours,

Neil Newton Taylor
cliff shasby - on 26 Dec 2011
In reply to neilnt: I already use just two grivel expresso for the 360's coz they rack like a real clusterfu**,having 12-14 of these would be hard to fit on a harness i think,so 3-4 on each carritool does the job..in fact im after one more and im gonna have to buy a pair...:-)

the report i mentioned says...

conclusions..

6)The longer the ice screw is,the stronger the ice anchor will be,regardless of whether its a freshly placed screw or a re-bored screw.

cliff...
neilnt - on 27 Dec 2011
In reply to cliff shasby:

I find the BD's rack really well on the carritool but the 360s rack better when each is racked on the top karabiner of an express sling. It's quite easy to get them off (harder for the 2nd to put them back on) definately nicer racking when you have 12 of them on your harness.

Regarding screw length, I'm still going to go with the opinion of someone who has actually read more reports on ice screws than maybe anyone and climbed ice for over 25 years, sorry about that ;-)

Quote from Will Gadd

" I carry mostly 13cm screws with one 19 for threads, maybe a few 16s for grins, and a some stubbies."

If anyone else wants to read more of his thoughts about ice screw length etc:

http://willgadd.com/?cat=1&paged=3

Yours,

Neil Newton Taylor
Run_Ross_Run - on 27 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09:

Thanks for all the 'advice' about sizes/makes etc everyone. I think we've exhausted it now.

Future posts containing prices/offers from now on please.

Thanks.
Cornish boy - on 27 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09: I would recommend Elite Mountain Supplies too, as they have some great packages on offer. If you speak to the owner/manager [Adam] he might allow you to customise your order too. Good luck!
bryan main - on 27 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09: try mountain-gear.com
alan1234 - on 28 Dec 2011
In reply to bryan main:

Get go-outdoors to price match -10% decathlon. Depending on who you speak to they seem to forget about postage cost differences and even allow all sizes of BD Express screws.
Run_Ross_Run - on 28 Dec 2011
In reply to alan1234:

Good point but i'd need one of the discount cards which costs so all in its still cheaper from T O S. 107 quid for the 3. I can't seem to find them any cheaper.
k.shark - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09: I got 4x16cm 1x13cm blackdiamond express all at 31.50 each from go outdoors got them to do price guarantee against the outdoor shop sorted great deal .Thinking of doing same with scarpa jorasses would be 234
Run_Ross_Run - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to k.shark:
> (In reply to Darren09) 31.50 each from go outdoors got them to do price guarantee against the outdoor shop

So they price match again the internet then? I presumed it was just local shops.

Do you have to use the shop or can I get them to price match online instead of driving to Cardiff?

Cheers.
k.shark - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09: It is against any uk shop i emailed them then called them they put me through to my nearest store to check stock and they set them aside for me ,easy process .
ads.ukclimbing.com
Mister E. Shopper on 29 Dec 2011 - host86-129-114-118.range86-129.btcentralplus.com
In reply to k.shark: "I got 4x16cm 1x13cm blackdiamond express all at 31.50 each from go outdoors got them to do price guarantee against the outdoor shop sorted great deal .Thinking of doing same with scarpa jorasses would be 234"

Why not just use the shop that was offering the best deal in the first place.
Mike Nolan - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Mister E. Shopper: Why pay more when you can pay less?
Phil Payne - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Darren09:

I sold all my ice climbing stuff last year, but I got most of it in a field and trek sale when they were selling grivel helix screws for 13.50!!! The Field and Trek shop in Cambridge is now in the basement of Sports Direct and you can sometimes find real bargains when they reduce stuff by up to 70% and the staff don't snap it up because they don't know anything about climbing.
Run_Ross_Run - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Mister E. Shopper:
> (In reply to k.shark) "I got 4x16cm 1x13cm blackdiamond express all at 31.50 each from go outdoors got them to do price guarantee against the outdoor shop sorted great deal .Thinking of doing same with scarpa jorasses would be 234"
>
> Why not just use the shop that was offering the best deal in the first place.



He did. Go Outdoors.
Run_Ross_Run - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Mister E. Shopper:
>
> Why not just use the shop that was offering the best deal in the first place.



the best 'deal' is from Go Outdoors. 10% lower than competitors.

As someone else said. Why pay more.
k.shark - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Anonymous: Times are hard why should we not shop around do you know the mark up on outdoor items ?
Mike Nolan - on 29 Dec 2011
In reply to Mister E. Shopper: Well if you seriously believe this is what will happen, you deserve to be charged more.
k.shark - on 30 Dec 2011
In reply to Mister E. Shopper: I find the majority of the time i have researched an item on the net before i buy or seen product in action before i buy . I have been involved in outdoors for over 30 years playing and teaching so i have a fair idea whats the dogs , i hate nothing more than going into a shop to be approached by a numpty with some speal trying to tell there gran how to have weans and sell whatever line they need to push . Maybe my fault because i dont dress up in my outdoor gear to go shopping i get landed with folk who think i am new to outdoors . Next time i will wear my expensive haglofs or mammut gear that i have been using for years(go outdoors should stock these brands )

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