/ What to expect from a Johnny Dawes masterclass.

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puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
Exactly that, What should I expect? happening indoors.
Alex Slipchuk on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:



Chips for a start
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Expect to listen to semi-comprehensible nonsense. And then, if the odd sentence does seem to be in a language that you understand try to apply it to your climbing. Good luck. A fool and his money, eh? Soon parted. It astonishes me that anyone would pay for Johnny Dawes' privileges!
woodsy - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:
Expect the ...unexpected
puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: so the less positive referees; is this from personal experience? have you done one and been disappointed?

Any positive comments or other experiences?
Stig - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Ffs. Why don't you just go without preconceptions?
Hannes on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Have you read his book? Its like that, a steady stream of consciousness that doesn't exactly make sense but is bloody inspiring.
In reply to puppythedog: I'm not sure why a thread like this should attract such a nasty response.
puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Hannes: Not yet, might get it from him tomorrow after the class.
puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Stig: Asking is helping with my anticipation, I'm looking forward to it and so for thought may build my excitement.
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: I can only assume that you're referring to my response, there. There was nothing nasty about it at all. I feel very sorry for Dawes, and for several reasons, only three of which are his own fault.
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:
> (In reply to Stig) Asking is helping with my anticipation, I'm looking forward to it and so for thought may build my excitement.

Be careful, my friend. You're beginning to sound like him already!
Southern Bell - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:

I don't think anyones interested in your unconstructive response
puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers: Is excitement and anticipation a bad thing in this world and somthing I should be wary of developing further?
Southern Bell - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:
> Exactly that, What should I expect? happening indoors.

Expect to use muscles previously left to retire!

Stig - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Fair enough. I've only met him once. He's a nice guy. I didnt find him to be the oddball some people make him out to be.
puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Stig: Thank you.
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Southern Bell: With all due respect, I suspect that history might prove you wrong.
isi_o - on 17 Jan 2012
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:
> (In reply to Chambers) Is excitement and anticipation a bad thing in this world and somthing I should be wary of developing further?

No, I don't think so. And I'm glad I said nothing to suggest it was. For my part, I'd jump over 2,975 Johnny Dawes's to listen to one Joe Brown or half a John Redhead.

puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to isi_o: Thank you, that's probably exactly what I was looking for.
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to isi_o: I'm not intrigued at all. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think that the commercialisation of climbing is a good thing at all.
porridgefan on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:

Imagine you are about to be taught how to speak fluent <insert unfamiliar language of your chice> in an hour.

You will walk away remembering only the sounds and with a handfull of scribbled notes. Practice what you can for a few years and eventually you will be somewhere close to fluent yourself...
puppythedog on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers: I'm not quite sure why you're posting. It may be because of the lack of intonation in typed talk but your posts are coming across as a bit negative and really rather superior.
I would also love to see other people talk and lecture and teach but not to exclude or for preference over Johnny whom I have an opportunity to see tomorrow and have a movement class with.
porridgefan on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:
> I don't think that the commercialisation of climbing is a good thing at all.

*puts on tie-dye shirt and pink lycra*

Where's the vision man!? Don't you want a better world for your children and their children? Embrace the new ideas and respect the elders, dude!
Gareth - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Had a day with johny at carn barra. Spent some time bouldering then on to some routes. probably forgot half the stuff he said, but as with any training a few things have stuck. Most importantly i enjoyed it. If your going for a fun day then good luck, if you think your going to climb three grades harder at the end of it...
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to porridgefan:
> (In reply to Chambers)
> [...]
>
> *puts on tie-dye shirt and pink lycra*
>
> Where's the vision man!? Don't you want a better world for your children and their children? Embrace the new ideas and respect the elders, dude!

I do indeed want a better world for my children and grand-children, and I admonish all of them to look beyond the kind of society that turns beauty into a commodity.
dan - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Start at the starting hold and imagine the body position you will be in when on the finishing hold, you somehow have to magically contort time and space using voodoo and coffee to make the finishing hold actually move to you, not you move to it.....Throw in some references to arse fingering and drinking and you are pretty much there.
I did one many years ago the went to the pub with Johnny and a few others, it was like a huge acid trip from start to finish...Awesome.
ripper - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Be interested to hear what you make of it afterwards. I did one last month and to be honest I'm still not sure what I think about it.
AlH - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: My blog that Isi linked to above summarises the workshop I went to fairly well. Friends who had the same or another workshop on the same day had mixed reviews. I think in part it came down to who else was on the workshop- everyone was more interested in climbing than 'climbing with Johnny Dawes' and he's still so psyched to play around with moves that with a willing audience we had a blast. I had to work hard to make links with the sort of stuff I'd read and played with before working on FUNdamentals and CWA courses but Its all there...just in a different voice. Some bits I really liked as a way of putting things across so if you go with an open mind you may get a lot out of it. He was alos quite happy to get wrapped up in the session and over run our allotted time by a healthy margin.
Al
ads.ukclimbing.com
3 Names - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:

Dawes banged your missus or something?
Chambers - on 17 Jan 2012
In reply to Vince McNally:
> (In reply to Chambers)
>
> Dawes banged your missus or something?

If my 'missus', as you put it - in your caveman vernacular - wasn't sleeping right now I'd have guffawed quite loudly! As it is, I'm just smiling whilst trying to stop my abs from contorting hysterically. In the time I've spent writing this I've done the equivalent of 94 sit-ups. Thanks for that. No, really.

So far as I know Dawes has never 'banged' the woman that I love. It's perfectly possible, of course, that he has. I'll ask her when she wakes up tomorrow morning. (I'm sure that she'll say 'No, Chambers, don't be ridiculous! Why would I let Dawes bang me when I can be banged by a climber of slightly more than average stature?'

To be fair, the Jaxster does have a morbid fascination with little Johnny. She often watches his stuff on PuerileTube and is wont to say things like 'That makes no sense! I thought people who went to private schools spoke proper!'

For my part, I think climbing went downhill in the 80s. I look at young climbers today and wonder what the feck they're playing at with all this hero worship. I've been aware of the existence of Dawes for three decades. Great climber. Greater ego. An ego fuelled by what?

I watched young Johnny recently. For about ten minutes. Stood outside The Heights in Llanberis, holding court and desperately wanting to be recognised...


Jen 'Scend on 18 Jan 2012 - [195.59.115.60]
In reply to puppythedog:
> Exactly that, What should I expect? happening indoors.

I'd anticipate stiff nipples, personally x
Tom Last - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to dan:

Now that's what I call a review!
agibb - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:

A little late to the UKC party, but here's an actual answer to the OPs question:
I was in a group of 2 being coached by Johnny, outdoors. The guy does seem to speak in riddles and metaphor. I found that I was really motivated to learn as much as I could from him. After all, it's not every day you get to climb with Johnny Dawes. It was this that helped me to pay attention, and try to understand things on his terms. If you have an open mind, and are keen to learn, then you'll get something out of the day. Don't expect to be told about how to crimp better or how to do some move, though.
JoshOvki on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:

Dragons and small pox
Simon Alden - on 18 Jan 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_J86UnTMw0

Here's some vid of a workshop we did in Malta in September. It was great to meet Johnny and I did find his workshops interesting and useful..and quite challenging in the footwork department!
pebbles - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers: Guess different things suit different people - I did one and found it really thought provoking, got me thinking about training in different ways. Lots of focus on balance, body position and momentum. We spent most of the time trying one or two moves repeatedly, ended up outside the climbing wall trying to balance on a stone, didnt get everything he said "every move has its own noise" - in my case thats usually "bugger!" but other stuff made a lot of sense, had a huge amount of fun.
Scarab9 - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:
> (In reply to Vince McNally)
> [...]
>

at the start, interested to hear people's reviews as I know a few people who've climbed met him and he's given them some help though not in a structured class, I saw your negative response and thought "put pretty blunt to be called constructive criticism." I read more of your responses and thought "this guy's got some weird obsession, why the hell is he so negative about the guy?". I then got further one and thought "oh he's one of those people that's stuck in the past and probably has angry rants at anyone who owns technology from the the last twenty years as 'we didn't need them in my day' appears to be a reason not to have anything new".

oh and then I read your bizarrely OTT response to the "banged your mrs?" question and thought "no. no. he's just a cock who's incredibly up himself."
Jon Ratcliffe - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:
In reply to isi_o: I'm not intrigued at all. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't think that the commercialisation of climbing is a good thing at all

What are you doing on here then?
puppythedog on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: The class starts this afternoon, I'll post up my thoughts later (or maybe tomorrow)
Offwidth - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:

What a bizarre series of posts. I know their are mixed feelings about these courses but you seem to be making a personal attack from an anonymous user profile. I guess its a count-down before the mods spot it.
franksnb - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: this s what we call trolling. I would expect valid answers from people that have actually been on the course.
Quiddity - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:

I had a 1:1 session with him last year. thoughts here:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=447644&v=1#x6274502

Johnny seems to constantly change how he verbalises his core 'message' that he delivers in his masterclass. As he is trying to explain something quite abstract that naturally doesn't come across in words so well, you need to be a bit open minded with understanding what he is trying to explain. Expect to be grappling with understanding metaphors which may seem a bit odd. I got a lot out of it but as I was in a 1:1 session I could have a bit more of a conversation with him, which I think was conducive to understanding what he was getting at.
crw - on 18 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:

To answer the original question. I had a day long session with him (shared with 3 other mates from work) and we all had a great time. Enough to book another day with him in Feb.

I would say that to get the most out of him you have to approach the session with an open mind. And put a lot of hard work into understanding what he's trying to teach you. I thought the guy had an amazing understanding about how he climbs, and had turned this into a great vision about how climbing movement could be understood and improved. Understanding his vision is really hard work, being able to apply it to your own climbing even harder.

My opinion is that the mixed reviews (from people who've actually had some coaching from him) are probably split between those who managed to understand him and those who didn't.
SGD - on 19 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: So how did you get on? Did Johnny's teaching style suit you??
Tony Naylor on 19 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:

Neil Gresham interviewed Johnny Dawes a few years ago and had a training session with him. JD said he could improve NG's onsight grade by at least one grade in an hour. And did.

One possible explanation is that Mr Gresham is a rubbish climber and JD tweaked things a bit to make him slightly less rubbish. A bit like pushing me from F5 to F6a. Anyone want to vote for that explanation? Apart from you, like?
puppythedog on 19 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: So then, My review of the movement session with Johnny yesterday.

I only have positive things to say about the session.

We started off in the Bar because Johnny had had a crappy day getting to us, he began to explain what he thinks about the common problems people have with their climbing in relation to posture and not planning for the entire movement involved in any one move.

We progressed to a bouldering area in the centre where he explained and demonstrated what he means about 'shapes', stopping a fall before it happens, the right face to pull/replicate.

As had been suggested here I went in with an open mind, I didn't need one, he made sense and I' sure I understood what he was talking about.

I won't go into too much detail about what he explained because he needs to make a living and it would do a disservice to him to explain it badly.
Johnny talks about his understanding of how movement, posture, balance, forward planning, imagining and feedback that the body gives well.
There are no pseudo sciencey words used and it would be easy to say the terminology was abstract but it didn't seem too abstract to me.
From the outset (when I decided to shell out for doing this) I was aware it was a movement class and that's what I got. I have a better understanding about how to move to an extent but more importantly I feel I have learnt some concept which if I choose to apply them will help me.

In fact the realms of what could be possible for me have grown off of the back of the lesson. i managed a couple of moves which I would never have thought achievable (especially in a short space of time) with some practice and managed one move on my first attempt by trying Johnny's technique about understanding what would have to happen for my body to get from one position to another.

I would recommend this to anyone climbing at any grade if they could approach it with a relaxed attitude and knowing that they were not going in for a class where they would be taught 'Egyptians' or routines for fitness.

I know that Johnny read this thread yesterday (Chambers your comments have been highlighted as unpleasant trolling by many others, i'll had that you are not commenting on an abstract but a person and were you to talk to all people with such a lack of sensitivity I would wonder if yo could have any friends), if you're reading this again Johnny I enjoyed it, I would even do it again after six months or so, i have no desire to be sycophantic or hero-worship anyone but it was a good class.
staceyjg - on 19 Jan 2012
In reply to Scarab9:
> (In reply to Chambers)
> [...]
>
> at the start, interested to hear people's reviews as I know a few people who've climbed met him and he's given them some help though not in a structured class, I saw your negative response and thought "put pretty blunt to be called constructive criticism." I read more of your responses and thought "this guy's got some weird obsession, why the hell is he so negative about the guy?". I then got further one and thought "oh he's one of those people that's stuck in the past and probably has angry rants at anyone who owns technology from the the last twenty years as 'we didn't need them in my day' appears to be a reason not to have anything new".
>
> oh and then I read your bizarrely OTT response to the "banged your mrs?" question and thought "no. no. he's just a cock who's incredibly up himself."

*Chuckles* Nicely put!

Chris had a masterclass in december. He enjoyed it. Ask him next time you see him.

Stoke on Sunday?? :-)
SGD - on 20 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog: Good review. I too have had a couple of sessions with Johnny and have enjoyed them a great deal and taken alot from them. I will also be thinking of booking another session some time soon.
Southern Bell - on 20 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:

Its Seems chambers that Jonny is always on your lips!



Jim at Work on 20 Jan 2012
In reply to puppythedog:
agree - good review & thoughtfully put - certainly makes me feel like trying a session myself - as I'm 60% of the way though FoM I have to say the man writes superbly - all about making the effort to understand isn't it? and I guess that the title FoM has several interpretations, including one related to movement & how JD percieves it....
victim of mathematics - on 20 Jan 2012
In reply to Chambers:

Wow, people like you make me despair for humanity.
Mike Nolan - on 20 Jan 2012
In reply to Jim at Work: Definitely! When I first read it I wasn't fussed and I even slated it on here a bit, but after going back and reading a second time and actually trying to understand I thought it was brilliant. About a week after I'd gone back and re-read it, I met Johnny and climbed with him for a bit and a think this helped me to understand the book even moreso.

I'd love to do one of his sessions and after meeting him, he comes across as a really nice helpful guy.
Scarab9 - on 20 Jan 2012
In reply to staceyjg:
> (In reply to Scarab9)
> [...]
>
> *Chuckles* Nicely put!
>
> Chris had a masterclass in december. He enjoyed it. Ask him next time you see him.
>
> Stoke on Sunday?? :-)


Karl is dragging me to snowdonia to wander up some very wet hills, possibly with Mr K the hat fanatic. I'm half hoping they bail and we end up at the wall on sunday nice and dry now.....

Graham Booth - on 20 Jan 2012
In reply to pebbles:

load of old cobblers to me, baffling boffin that he is...

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