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Mrs J has a Panasonic DMC-TZ18 Which she's very happy with. It's actually her second one - she dropped the first and one half of the screen stopped working, so she bought another so she could use the battery. This one had been great until a few weeks back, when a smudge appeared on each and every photo, and on the screen. It's only a problem if it coincides with sky or snow (it gets lost in any subject matter that's got more detail) but just a little work on the computer cleans the image up, though it's a pain to do. She can't remember if she dropped it or handled it roughly just prior to the appearance of the smudge, and the lens appears very clean... However, today a second smudge has appeared and she knows that it hasn't been handled roughly between yesterday when it had one smudge and today. What can cause this to happen?
In reply to jon:
Usually caused by dust on the sensor, a problems with DSLRs with all the lens changing. Isn't usually a problem on compacts as they are sealed. Might need a 'pro' cleaning.
Chris
Usually caused by dust on the sensor, a problems with DSLRs with all the lens changing. Isn't usually a problem on compacts as they are sealed. Might need a 'pro' cleaning.
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Thanks Chris. So that can be done, can it? I was afraid the answer might be throw it away and buy another! But how does it get in?
Thanks Chris. So that can be done, can it? I was afraid the answer might be throw it away and buy another! But how does it get in?
In reply to jon:
I think the dust can penetrate if it isn't a waterproof camera. Tiny particles are attracted to the sensor (static) and stock to it.
How old is it and how much has it been abused (i.e. carried in the bottom of a scummy rucksack/duvet pocket)?
As you suggest, probably not worth cleaning.
Chris
I think the dust can penetrate if it isn't a waterproof camera. Tiny particles are attracted to the sensor (static) and stock to it.
How old is it and how much has it been abused (i.e. carried in the bottom of a scummy rucksack/duvet pocket)?
As you suggest, probably not worth cleaning.
Chris
In reply to jon: As above, afraid it might not be worth cleaning if it is dust on the sensor of a compact. I've got dust on my sensor ATM and while haven't got round to getting it cleaned yet, it's easy to use a stamp tool on editing software to cover it up. Only takes me a couple of secs. Fair enough though, a faff if you're having to do it to every single photo.
In reply to Chris Craggs:
Well it's quite new - a few months I guess. It's normally carried in a case fixed to her rucsac, but when it's cold it gets put into a pocket. Hasn't been abused as such. I've just played around with one of the photos she wanted to put on her blog, but the sky colour is too graduated to make a good job of it.
What's the stamp tool that What Goes Up mentions?
Well it's quite new - a few months I guess. It's normally carried in a case fixed to her rucsac, but when it's cold it gets put into a pocket. Hasn't been abused as such. I've just played around with one of the photos she wanted to put on her blog, but the sky colour is too graduated to make a good job of it.
What's the stamp tool that What Goes Up mentions?
In reply to jon:
I think the stamp tool is a photoshop thing? It'll depend a bit on the software. I mostly use the "spot healing brush tool" in Adobe photoshop elements, but there's also a "clone stamp tool" which lets you borrow stuff from somewhere else on the image.
Elements is the poor mans photoshop and is fairly good value for money, IMHO
It's odd that it's a smudge rather than a sharp spot. I wonder whether the cold got in and part of the sensor became damaged?
I think the stamp tool is a photoshop thing? It'll depend a bit on the software. I mostly use the "spot healing brush tool" in Adobe photoshop elements, but there's also a "clone stamp tool" which lets you borrow stuff from somewhere else on the image.
Elements is the poor mans photoshop and is fairly good value for money, IMHO
It's odd that it's a smudge rather than a sharp spot. I wonder whether the cold got in and part of the sensor became damaged?
In reply to pneame:
Hi Peter, I've got Photoshop CS3 for one reason or another. However, as Chris knows, I'm not that gifted at PS work and tend to make a pig's ear of it. The smudge is big - almost a cm square on a full sized (screen sized) image, so I wonder if it IS dust. I'll try to put one on Flickr or Picassa later today so you can see.
Hi Peter, I've got Photoshop CS3 for one reason or another. However, as Chris knows, I'm not that gifted at PS work and tend to make a pig's ear of it. The smudge is big - almost a cm square on a full sized (screen sized) image, so I wonder if it IS dust. I'll try to put one on Flickr or Picassa later today so you can see.
In reply to jon:
I use Canon's DPP software (free to download and easy to use, although not sure if it works with images not taken on a Canon camera). As said above, it basically lets you borrow from another part of the image and kind of paint over the spot you're trying to change. It has a stamp tool and a clone tool, and if I've got it right then the clone tool makes an exact copy of wherever else in the image you are taking the sample from (useful for things like hiding a blemish from trees or someone's hair) while the stamp tool givs a softer, blended in effect (useful for simple colours such as skin, sky, white wall backgounds). So for a patch of sky, just select from another bit nearby which is the same colour and away you go.
Most photo editing software will have something similar, including some freebies. I think even Picasa has it now in some form or another.
> What's the stamp tool that What Goes Up mentions?
I use Canon's DPP software (free to download and easy to use, although not sure if it works with images not taken on a Canon camera). As said above, it basically lets you borrow from another part of the image and kind of paint over the spot you're trying to change. It has a stamp tool and a clone tool, and if I've got it right then the clone tool makes an exact copy of wherever else in the image you are taking the sample from (useful for things like hiding a blemish from trees or someone's hair) while the stamp tool givs a softer, blended in effect (useful for simple colours such as skin, sky, white wall backgounds). So for a patch of sky, just select from another bit nearby which is the same colour and away you go.
Most photo editing software will have something similar, including some freebies. I think even Picasa has it now in some form or another.
In reply to jon:
If the camera is in warranty, and you bought it from a shop, have you considered taking it back for replacement or repair?
Its a sealed unit and there is no normal way for you to damage the sensor with dirt or dust.
Let the shop deal with it. If it was a private sale, then sell yours on eBay and get another.
If the camera is in warranty, and you bought it from a shop, have you considered taking it back for replacement or repair?
Its a sealed unit and there is no normal way for you to damage the sensor with dirt or dust.
Let the shop deal with it. If it was a private sale, then sell yours on eBay and get another.
In reply to The Lemming:
Think it came from Amazon. We contacted them and they sent us a list of places we could send it. I just thought I'd ask you guys what might have caused it and then decide whether it would be covered by a warranty. Right now is the middle of Mrs J's snowshoe work and she can't afford to be without a camera (she's got a DSLR but it's not user friendly in extreme cold - do you know it was minus 30°C in Névache yesterday morning...!), so if we were sending it away to be told it wasn't covered by warranty, that'd only be more of a pain. If what you say is right and that no dust can get in, then it may be worth sending it soon... thanks.
Think it came from Amazon. We contacted them and they sent us a list of places we could send it. I just thought I'd ask you guys what might have caused it and then decide whether it would be covered by a warranty. Right now is the middle of Mrs J's snowshoe work and she can't afford to be without a camera (she's got a DSLR but it's not user friendly in extreme cold - do you know it was minus 30°C in Névache yesterday morning...!), so if we were sending it away to be told it wasn't covered by warranty, that'd only be more of a pain. If what you say is right and that no dust can get in, then it may be worth sending it soon... thanks.
In reply to jon: Jon, my dad bought a canon compact from Amazon, and when it had a fault he had an exceedingly positive experience with Amazon, and in turn Canon, who sent a courier to pick it up and fixed it at the nearest service centre. He was kept informed on what was happening and got it back in a couple of days. I think he was really rather impressed with the whole thing so may well be worth seeing if it is still in warranty!
I've been trying to clean some dust off my DSLR sensor. I've done it once before and it worked a treat, less success this time unfortunately.
I've been trying to clean some dust off my DSLR sensor. I've done it once before and it worked a treat, less success this time unfortunately.
In reply to jon:
That would help.
-30C, bloody Hell!
Chris
> I'll try to put one on Flickr or Picassa later today so you can see.
That would help.
-30C, bloody Hell!
Chris
In reply to Chris Craggs:
See if this works. It's a random one of St Léger. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55057183@N07/?saved=1
Yes, a balmy -27° today!
See if this works. It's a random one of St Léger. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55057183@N07/?saved=1
Yes, a balmy -27° today!
In reply to jon:
Brrrr...
That looks more like a sensor fault than dust. Afaik dust appears as sharp edged specks
Very irritating, whatever it is.
Brrrr...
That looks more like a sensor fault than dust. Afaik dust appears as sharp edged specks
Very irritating, whatever it is.
In reply to pneame:
Could be condensation on the inside of the lens?
Maybe in the cold weather, somehow a spot of moisture formed on the inside of the lens when the owner got home.
> (In reply to jon)
> Brrrr...
> That looks more like a sensor fault than dust. Afaik dust appears as sharp edged specks
> Very irritating, whatever it is.
> Brrrr...
> That looks more like a sensor fault than dust. Afaik dust appears as sharp edged specks
> Very irritating, whatever it is.
Could be condensation on the inside of the lens?
Maybe in the cold weather, somehow a spot of moisture formed on the inside of the lens when the owner got home.
In reply to pneame:
Could be dust, how it appears in the photo depends on one of the camera's settings - aperture maybe? One of the photo nerds will tell us shortly I'm sure! But the same spec can range from invisible to a big blotch like in Jon's photo depending on that setting - or at least that has happened with my Nikon.
Jon; I'll see your -30 and raise you 1.1 degrees. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150649832142959&set=a.10150350... Actually cancelled an ice climbing trip as a result!
> That looks more like a sensor fault than dust. Afaik dust appears as sharp edged specks
Could be dust, how it appears in the photo depends on one of the camera's settings - aperture maybe? One of the photo nerds will tell us shortly I'm sure! But the same spec can range from invisible to a big blotch like in Jon's photo depending on that setting - or at least that has happened with my Nikon.
Jon; I'll see your -30 and raise you 1.1 degrees. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150649832142959&set=a.10150350... Actually cancelled an ice climbing trip as a result!
In reply to jon: I take it you've ensured that the lens is scrupulously clean? The only time I've has a similar mark on my photos was when there was a drop of dried sea water on the lens.
In reply to John2:
Well, I've certainly looked and it seemed clean... H has got it at the moment, so I don't know for sure.
Well, I've certainly looked and it seemed clean... H has got it at the moment, so I don't know for sure.
In reply to TobyA:
I imagine you expect those sort of temperatures up where you are, Toby...? The coldest I can remember at Vallorcine (1300m) was -22 a few years back - that's once in 22 years. The coldest I can remember (or at least knowing the temperature... I might have been in a colder place, but not known it) was -28 - but that was the top of the Aig du Midi 3800m - we had to pole DOWN the Vallée Blanche as the skis wouldn't run. Then of course the skins wouldn't stick on the skis when we skinned up the Brêche Puissieux. But -30 for us southerners is pretty bloody cold and almost never happens! OK, Névache is at 1600m, but still... brrrrr!
I imagine you expect those sort of temperatures up where you are, Toby...? The coldest I can remember at Vallorcine (1300m) was -22 a few years back - that's once in 22 years. The coldest I can remember (or at least knowing the temperature... I might have been in a colder place, but not known it) was -28 - but that was the top of the Aig du Midi 3800m - we had to pole DOWN the Vallée Blanche as the skis wouldn't run. Then of course the skins wouldn't stick on the skis when we skinned up the Brêche Puissieux. But -30 for us southerners is pretty bloody cold and almost never happens! OK, Névache is at 1600m, but still... brrrrr!
In reply to jon:
I have an old slide somewhere of a thermometer outside the window at Ornskoldsvik in Sweden. IIRC it showed -43C, and the sun was out!
Chris
I have an old slide somewhere of a thermometer outside the window at Ornskoldsvik in Sweden. IIRC it showed -43C, and the sun was out!
Chris
In reply to jon: Only gets that cold down here in the south once or twice a winter normally. -20 is actually pretty cold for us and I'm 20 kms north (inland) from downtown Helsinki, where I guess it's normally 5-8 or so degrees warmer than here due to the sea (even though it is normally frozen!). They had the coldest night of the winter last week up in the NE, it was something like -39.5. Below 40 is pretty rare I think, at least away from the far north of the country.
In reply to TobyA and Chris:
Warming up nicely. Only -25 tomorrow (-34 with windchill), then positively tropical.
http://france.meteofrance.com/france/meteo?PREVISIONS_PORTLET.path=previsio...
Warming up nicely. Only -25 tomorrow (-34 with windchill), then positively tropical.
http://france.meteofrance.com/france/meteo?PREVISIONS_PORTLET.path=previsio...
In reply to jon: To get back on topic... that's dust. I suffer with it really badly because my camera has had way too much abuse. To show up that clearly, it's likely that the dust is on the sensor (or more specifically on the filters that are attached to the sensor).
I'm afraid I know nothing about the camera in question. Does it have removeable lenses? If so you should be able to access the sensor and clean it yourself, or take it to a camera shop. You can get cleaning kits, but I often find using an empty water bottle to gently blow clean air over the sensor (whilst holding it upside down) is enough to dislodge dirt.
If your camera can be set to different apertures, pick the smallest aperture you can (i.e. high f-number such as f32) and a long shutter speed and take a picture of the sky or a plain wall, preferably very slightly over exposed - you can point the camera at anything really as long as it doesn't have distracting detail. YOu should then be able to see the dirt really clearly in the picture.
I'm afraid I know nothing about the camera in question. Does it have removeable lenses? If so you should be able to access the sensor and clean it yourself, or take it to a camera shop. You can get cleaning kits, but I often find using an empty water bottle to gently blow clean air over the sensor (whilst holding it upside down) is enough to dislodge dirt.
If your camera can be set to different apertures, pick the smallest aperture you can (i.e. high f-number such as f32) and a long shutter speed and take a picture of the sky or a plain wall, preferably very slightly over exposed - you can point the camera at anything really as long as it doesn't have distracting detail. YOu should then be able to see the dirt really clearly in the picture.
In reply to Oujmik:
That's really helpful. I'll have a look when Mrs J gets home on Friday. It's a compact probably can't get inside it. Don't know if I can set the aperture... We'll see. Thanks.
That's really helpful. I'll have a look when Mrs J gets home on Friday. It's a compact probably can't get inside it. Don't know if I can set the aperture... We'll see. Thanks.
In reply to jon:
Just to say that we sent the camera for repair. It's just come back. It was repaired under guarantee. No comment from them about the problem, so don't really know what to do to avoid it in the future. I suppose we could start by not just popping it inside a pocket... Thanks for all the replies.
Just to say that we sent the camera for repair. It's just come back. It was repaired under guarantee. No comment from them about the problem, so don't really know what to do to avoid it in the future. I suppose we could start by not just popping it inside a pocket... Thanks for all the replies.
In reply to jon:
Good news, glad it's sorted. I found a youtube vid showing how to clean the sensor on Lumix TZ's - it's surprisingly straightforward...
youtube.com/watch?v=0nmwt0frZns&
Good news, glad it's sorted. I found a youtube vid showing how to clean the sensor on Lumix TZ's - it's surprisingly straightforward...
youtube.com/watch?v=0nmwt0frZns&
In reply to roddyp:
Hmmm... yes, very easy! Still that's really interesting to know as it means that someone at a camera shop that knows what they're doing can fix it. Also a really clear explanation of how the dust is drawn into the camera. Thanks.
Hmmm... yes, very easy! Still that's really interesting to know as it means that someone at a camera shop that knows what they're doing can fix it. Also a really clear explanation of how the dust is drawn into the camera. Thanks.
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