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Reaching that time in my life when I need to start considering a career/job that will give me evenings to train and weekends to travel to crags and mountains. Opinions or experiences on becoming an instructor/mountain guide would be good as that's something I'm considering.
Thought I'd once again consult the wise and experienced members of UKC for guidance
Thought I'd once again consult the wise and experienced members of UKC for guidance
In reply to Stanners:
Wise? Maybe. Experienced? A bit. What you want to hear? No.
Rite, for 99% of people, instructing and guiding won't give you the time to do what YOU want in the hills. Or pay the bills that allow long holidays. So you guide novices for a few days, then have 2 days off. Are you going to get out on the hill every rest day and risk injury (remember you won't have company sick pay)? Will you get bored/tired of the hills if it becomes a 24/7 lifestyle? How will you pay for the qualifications?
I only ask because my bloke looked into all this. What with low pay, no sick pay, no company pension etc, etc, we'd have nowhere near the lifestyle we have now, where we can head to the hills pretty much whenever (OK, not this year, I'm working equivalent of 3 jobs, but come July that will stop and I'll be free again).
If I were you, I'd find a job that gives decent holidays and pays well enough for you to save for the trips and expeditions that you want. If over time you find you can also get qualified and work towards instructing later on, then fine, but at 17 it's not going to happen, so work things your way for now. Earn, save, get the tickets, then have the options
Wise? Maybe. Experienced? A bit. What you want to hear? No.
Rite, for 99% of people, instructing and guiding won't give you the time to do what YOU want in the hills. Or pay the bills that allow long holidays. So you guide novices for a few days, then have 2 days off. Are you going to get out on the hill every rest day and risk injury (remember you won't have company sick pay)? Will you get bored/tired of the hills if it becomes a 24/7 lifestyle? How will you pay for the qualifications?
I only ask because my bloke looked into all this. What with low pay, no sick pay, no company pension etc, etc, we'd have nowhere near the lifestyle we have now, where we can head to the hills pretty much whenever (OK, not this year, I'm working equivalent of 3 jobs, but come July that will stop and I'll be free again).
If I were you, I'd find a job that gives decent holidays and pays well enough for you to save for the trips and expeditions that you want. If over time you find you can also get qualified and work towards instructing later on, then fine, but at 17 it's not going to happen, so work things your way for now. Earn, save, get the tickets, then have the options
In reply to Stanners: Working outdoors as an instructor all week may blunt your enthusiasm for getting out at the weekends.
Your choices of 9-5 M-F jobs to train evenings and do what you want at weekends is more or less limitless. Choose something you actually don't hate doing that pays you what you want - in all probability, your working week is the biggest part of your week, no matter what romantic ideas you have of adventure being the biggest part of your life. So you might as well enjoy it rather than just using a job for money.
Your choices of 9-5 M-F jobs to train evenings and do what you want at weekends is more or less limitless. Choose something you actually don't hate doing that pays you what you want - in all probability, your working week is the biggest part of your week, no matter what romantic ideas you have of adventure being the biggest part of your life. So you might as well enjoy it rather than just using a job for money.
In reply to Stanners: I am a nurse, i dont get every weekend but i do get two days off a week together. Sometimes i get the days off in the week, which is great as i get the hills, crags, climbing wall, trails all to myself! I get paid extra for nights, weekends, any work after 8 pm, and 36 days holiday a year, paided sick leave. And its not too hard to get a job somewhere like Inverness, New Zealand, Canada or Bangor. I can join mountain rescue or change to be a paramedic with only a bit more work. I like it!
In reply to Stanners:
cheers everyone, all useful points Anymore very welcome!
cheers everyone, all useful points Anymore very welcome!
In reply to Got a job rob:
Do you get paid to be in Mountain Rescue, its just I always thought it was voluntary? (your username is a bit ironic considering the title of this thread and my name being Rob
Do you get paid to be in Mountain Rescue, its just I always thought it was voluntary? (your username is a bit ironic considering the title of this thread and my name being Rob
In reply to Stanners:
Imagine two circles.
In one circle put all the routes, mountains and adventures. This is your climbing circle.
In the other a passion and patience for people, teaching, listening etc. This is your people circle
Now imagine if both circles overlap. The overlap is instructing. If either circle is not full find anther way to earn a living.
Well thats how I see it....
Imagine two circles.
In one circle put all the routes, mountains and adventures. This is your climbing circle.
In the other a passion and patience for people, teaching, listening etc. This is your people circle
Now imagine if both circles overlap. The overlap is instructing. If either circle is not full find anther way to earn a living.
Well thats how I see it....
In reply to Stanners: no MR is voluntary, but it could still be a way to give something back to the community of climbers and hill walkers that I have as friends. My user was "no job rob", i changed it when i got my job as a nurse.
In reply to Got a job rob:
My job is very similar to yours (ambulance service/paramedic) as is my outlook, it seems!
My job is very similar to yours (ambulance service/paramedic) as is my outlook, it seems!
In reply to Stanners: The instructor thing doesn't pay particularly well, especially to start with. Once you progress though I think the pay is OK.
I work on average 4 day weeks, could work a lot harder/more over the summer but choose not to. It gives me the time to climb / enjoy life and I earn enough to keep a lifestyle that I enjoy.
Most instructors I know live for the outdoors and are mega keen to get out on days off, so I don't think the whole "working in the outdoors blunts your enthusiasm" is as true as people suggest.
I'd probably go down the teacher route if I was starting again, but then again I can't see myself not working in the outdoors until my knees are completely shot...
I work on average 4 day weeks, could work a lot harder/more over the summer but choose not to. It gives me the time to climb / enjoy life and I earn enough to keep a lifestyle that I enjoy.
Most instructors I know live for the outdoors and are mega keen to get out on days off, so I don't think the whole "working in the outdoors blunts your enthusiasm" is as true as people suggest.
I'd probably go down the teacher route if I was starting again, but then again I can't see myself not working in the outdoors until my knees are completely shot...
In reply to Stanners:
I might be mistaken, but i believe the police in Scotland have MRT which work with the voluntary teams. Not 100% on that though.
Exploratory Geology has come up a few times on the forums as being a bit of an Indiana Jones number.
Anything medical, you will be in demand, some of which will be doing interesting stuff.
ML cadre, Royal Marines- the nailsest of the nails.
Regarding work as an instructor; I've met/climbed with a few people that work full time doing it. The general consensus seemed to be that there are dull days just like any job, but even on the dull days, you're still out at the crag or in the hills. Wouldn't know myself though.
I might be mistaken, but i believe the police in Scotland have MRT which work with the voluntary teams. Not 100% on that though.
Exploratory Geology has come up a few times on the forums as being a bit of an Indiana Jones number.
Anything medical, you will be in demand, some of which will be doing interesting stuff.
ML cadre, Royal Marines- the nailsest of the nails.
Regarding work as an instructor; I've met/climbed with a few people that work full time doing it. The general consensus seemed to be that there are dull days just like any job, but even on the dull days, you're still out at the crag or in the hills. Wouldn't know myself though.
In reply to Stanners: I am a full time instructor, can highly reccommened it as a job, but its more of a lifestyle than a job, working unsociable hours, quite often weekends and plenty of long days including evenings in all sorts of weather. Big bonus is you work with like minded people in the outdoors who are always keen on adventures and if your motivated enough some great climbing adventures can happen and you live in good climbing areas, i work in the peaks. It isnt a job where you go climbing in work time, on a climbing session you tend to spend most of your time encouraging kids up climbs whilst supervising kids belaying.
If you choose to do it as career the important thing is empolyers look for people with group experience and ngb awards not neccesarily degrees.
I would reccommened doing a week of work experience to see if its for you. Get in touch if you want any advice.
Regards
andy
Andy Waring
If you choose to do it as career the important thing is empolyers look for people with group experience and ngb awards not neccesarily degrees.
I would reccommened doing a week of work experience to see if its for you. Get in touch if you want any advice.
Regards
andy
Andy Waring
In reply to Stanners: I've not long started climbing but have been a boarder for over 15 years so gonna come at this at a slightly different angle. Got an instructor license never used it, didn't want to keep going over the same beginner lessons week in week out! So worked all summer (shops, gardening, anything) in order to go live in the mountains all winter without having to worry about finding work! Did that a few years before managing to get a morgage (when they were giving 'em away!) didn't stop me going away, I just had to work all summer to cover the bills and then work washing pots whilst abroad. Thing is now I'm 32 out of work and not in the mountains, no career prospects and not sure what the future holds! But I've spent a hell of a long time doing things I wanted to with a lot of storys and experience that others only read about in mags.
Guess what I'm saying is get out and do as much as you can but at somepoint the dream ends and you've got to have some money and somewhere to live. Choose what you want in life and it can be achieved in different ways but some have better outcomes than others!
Good Luck!
Guess what I'm saying is get out and do as much as you can but at somepoint the dream ends and you've got to have some money and somewhere to live. Choose what you want in life and it can be achieved in different ways but some have better outcomes than others!
Good Luck!
In reply to Stanners: It's not the job it's other commitments in life that stop you! I've worked as an Outdoor Instructor, did loads of things in the hills absol. rubbish that it puts you off. If you love the outdoors it's fine and gives you flexibility, less pay obviously but depends what you want. I've also done loads of outdoor stuff as a solicitor. Location is important.
In reply to manicpb:
I admire/inspire to be like you living life to its fullest. However, as you pointed out it gets to a point where you must have to think twice about the future. Thanks for the response and good luck to you too! Always can retrain and go to uni or join armed forces! Something I keep considering but my parents convince me not to :P
I admire/inspire to be like you living life to its fullest. However, as you pointed out it gets to a point where you must have to think twice about the future. Thanks for the response and good luck to you too! Always can retrain and go to uni or join armed forces! Something I keep considering but my parents convince me not to :P
In reply to Stanners: Read the following link's first page from top to bottom
http://cheaprvliving.com/
Seems a good way of life, work where you want and do what you want.
http://cheaprvliving.com/
Seems a good way of life, work where you want and do what you want.
In reply to Ben C:
As an instructor did you get much time to do personal climbing?
As an instructor did you get much time to do personal climbing?
In reply to Stanners: if weather dictates i find i could get out 4/5 times a week, evenings and days off.
In reply to Stanners: Pure speculation, but being a full time fireman seems like a good way to get out climbing a lot. Probably depends where you end up working, but at least some places do 4 days on 4 days off. You spend quite a lot of time in the station as well, so plenty of opportunity to do loads of pull ups while on the job. Not sure what the holidays are like but taking taking 4 days off would presumably get you 12 days off in total which is pretty reasonable for doing longer trips.
In reply to Stanners: The offshore oil industry is great for good pay and lots of time off.
In reply to Stanners:
I work in residential childcare. Its hard, but it renumerates quite well and you work 2 days on 4 days off. If you have outdoors qualifications you can work in one of the crisis centres taking the kids out climbing/mountain walking, coasteering etc. That 4 days off is a god send.
I work in residential childcare. Its hard, but it renumerates quite well and you work 2 days on 4 days off. If you have outdoors qualifications you can work in one of the crisis centres taking the kids out climbing/mountain walking, coasteering etc. That 4 days off is a god send.
In reply to manicpb:
Thats probably the most honest post I have read on this forum. For what its worth I agree with what you have said as I am in a similar position. Close to 30 years old, spent my live floating and working to fund what I enjoy. Life turned about a year ago and I realised that the dream had to end and some direction in my life was needed. I am now at university and currently trying to get my gas safe certificate reactivated. Been working voluntarily for a local plumbing firm to get back up to scratch before re-doing the ACS exams next month or one after.
I agree though, enjoy life but keep an eye on the direction. A time will come where you realise that your mates and the people around you have moved on and you haven't. Try not to stay at the party too long, short term its great when you hit 30ish its a bitch!
> (In reply to Stanners) I've not long started climbing but have been a boarder for over 15 years so gonna come at this at a slightly different angle. Got an instructor license never used it, didn't want to keep going over the same beginner lessons week in week out! So worked all summer (shops, gardening, anything) in order to go live in the mountains all winter without having to worry about finding work! Did that a few years before managing to get a morgage (when they were giving 'em away!) didn't stop me going away, I just had to work all summer to cover the bills and then work washing pots whilst abroad. Thing is now I'm 32 out of work and not in the mountains, no career prospects and not sure what the future holds! But I've spent a hell of a long time doing things I wanted to with a lot of storys and experience that others only read about in mags.
>
> Guess what I'm saying is get out and do as much as you can but at somepoint the dream ends and you've got to have some money and somewhere to live. Choose what you want in life and it can be achieved in different ways but some have better outcomes than others!
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Guess what I'm saying is get out and do as much as you can but at somepoint the dream ends and you've got to have some money and somewhere to live. Choose what you want in life and it can be achieved in different ways but some have better outcomes than others!
>
> Good Luck!
Thats probably the most honest post I have read on this forum. For what its worth I agree with what you have said as I am in a similar position. Close to 30 years old, spent my live floating and working to fund what I enjoy. Life turned about a year ago and I realised that the dream had to end and some direction in my life was needed. I am now at university and currently trying to get my gas safe certificate reactivated. Been working voluntarily for a local plumbing firm to get back up to scratch before re-doing the ACS exams next month or one after.
I agree though, enjoy life but keep an eye on the direction. A time will come where you realise that your mates and the people around you have moved on and you haven't. Try not to stay at the party too long, short term its great when you hit 30ish its a bitch!
In reply to Stanners:
depends.
if you just want to continue recreational climbing at your own level of choosing, along with having all sorts of other things in your life that youre into, then get the highest paid job you can.
i have friends who climb on expedition once a year and get a week or two of in-country climbing plus indulge in triathlons, paragliding etc as they are doctors, pilots or entrepreneurs so have the time and cash to do it.
BUT, if you want to immerse yourself in climbing, have your limits pushed for you, think, breath and eat climbing and STILL have something left to raise a family and stay off the dole, then its really hardwork.
the latter path means industry, and thats just as full on as any other industry, so takes commitment and risk.
its all based around your foundation as thats what both employers, clients and climbing industry people are looking at.
plenty of people are guide certified - its what sits behind that that gives you industry cred and therefore earning capacity.
the real money is in guiding internationally, working with industry and instructing select clients. mass guiding of the entry-level end of the market doesnt pay that well and is, to be honest, draining.
i guide and am amongst guides, and nearly always the money goes to those with much much more than a string of certificates which we all have. the guides getting the best income and lifestyle that i know are ex-athletes, ex-military/responder or also rangers, rescue etc.
those who arent are often just scraping by.
clients and industry like to see depth of experience, so these are also the guides getting sonsorship.
when theres 50 applications for jobs or sponsorship sitting there - most with the same qualifications because thats how the industry works - its the person with the outstanding lifestyle that stands out.
if i draw up a profile of a pro-climber thats making real money and has a career, it would be something like:
- athlete or professional responder background
- international experience: connects to world trends
- business savvy: can negotiate the industry world
- self motivated: does stuff on their own bank account and time
- takes risks: prepared to apply themselves when others may not
- works partially in industry: gear development, industrial instructing, writing etc
- industry aware: knows the low down of developments, people etc
- trains seriously: 800 plus hrs a year
- self-promoting: makes themselves known within the relevant scenarios
- qualified: the basic papers needed
- high novelty value: have other outstanding features that people notice, get them invited to events etc.
of course not every career-climber is like this and some are the opposite, but its a start.
theres a hell of a lot of 'almost career' climbers out there, who threw in the towel at 32 because they either didnt see or werent prepared to take it all on as an actual career path. like any other job, its competitive, needs constant upward-movement and foresight and connections.
depends.
if you just want to continue recreational climbing at your own level of choosing, along with having all sorts of other things in your life that youre into, then get the highest paid job you can.
i have friends who climb on expedition once a year and get a week or two of in-country climbing plus indulge in triathlons, paragliding etc as they are doctors, pilots or entrepreneurs so have the time and cash to do it.
BUT, if you want to immerse yourself in climbing, have your limits pushed for you, think, breath and eat climbing and STILL have something left to raise a family and stay off the dole, then its really hardwork.
the latter path means industry, and thats just as full on as any other industry, so takes commitment and risk.
its all based around your foundation as thats what both employers, clients and climbing industry people are looking at.
plenty of people are guide certified - its what sits behind that that gives you industry cred and therefore earning capacity.
the real money is in guiding internationally, working with industry and instructing select clients. mass guiding of the entry-level end of the market doesnt pay that well and is, to be honest, draining.
i guide and am amongst guides, and nearly always the money goes to those with much much more than a string of certificates which we all have. the guides getting the best income and lifestyle that i know are ex-athletes, ex-military/responder or also rangers, rescue etc.
those who arent are often just scraping by.
clients and industry like to see depth of experience, so these are also the guides getting sonsorship.
when theres 50 applications for jobs or sponsorship sitting there - most with the same qualifications because thats how the industry works - its the person with the outstanding lifestyle that stands out.
if i draw up a profile of a pro-climber thats making real money and has a career, it would be something like:
- athlete or professional responder background
- international experience: connects to world trends
- business savvy: can negotiate the industry world
- self motivated: does stuff on their own bank account and time
- takes risks: prepared to apply themselves when others may not
- works partially in industry: gear development, industrial instructing, writing etc
- industry aware: knows the low down of developments, people etc
- trains seriously: 800 plus hrs a year
- self-promoting: makes themselves known within the relevant scenarios
- qualified: the basic papers needed
- high novelty value: have other outstanding features that people notice, get them invited to events etc.
of course not every career-climber is like this and some are the opposite, but its a start.
theres a hell of a lot of 'almost career' climbers out there, who threw in the towel at 32 because they either didnt see or werent prepared to take it all on as an actual career path. like any other job, its competitive, needs constant upward-movement and foresight and connections.
In reply to ice.solo:
thanks for in-depth response. Lots more important points to consider!
thanks for in-depth response. Lots more important points to consider!
In reply to Stanners: teaching???
being mid 30s now and knowing a lot of people who've been instructing for a decade or more it seems a very tough career - poor pay, hard / unsociable hours and not a lot of career development i.e was to earn better / do different stuff - having done a bit of this work over time am glad i didn't follow this as a career path
good luck -
being mid 30s now and knowing a lot of people who've been instructing for a decade or more it seems a very tough career - poor pay, hard / unsociable hours and not a lot of career development i.e was to earn better / do different stuff - having done a bit of this work over time am glad i didn't follow this as a career path
good luck -
In reply to Stanners:
Get a job in oil and gas in exploration or on the rigs, you will be on rotation in terms of working a month on then getting a number of weeks off. Brother worked in the north sea on a seismic vessel for about 7 years, worked like a trooper while off shore but had quite a bit of down time where he then did all the travel/adventure stuff he wanted. Pay was not shabby either.
Get a job in oil and gas in exploration or on the rigs, you will be on rotation in terms of working a month on then getting a number of weeks off. Brother worked in the north sea on a seismic vessel for about 7 years, worked like a trooper while off shore but had quite a bit of down time where he then did all the travel/adventure stuff he wanted. Pay was not shabby either.
In reply to Stanners: Think seriously about the military. Some really good opportunities there to pursue climbing / sports with like minded people, alongside a wider life of hugely satisfying adventure. Take a look at the Army or Royal Marines in particular. RAF offer careers in Mountain Rescue too. Worth considering. Good luck, Charlie
I have to say not the forces!!! In my experience the amount of time away means that being serious about climbing isn't an option. depending on posting it's so hard to get time off for anything.
Teaching has to be up there doesn't it?
Teaching has to be up there doesn't it?
In reply to Madders:
Not really, crap money, long hours and getting your PGCE will make you terminally in debt. Also, you will find many teachers have to work through large chunks of their holidays either marking work or preparing lessons for the upcoming term.
> I have to say not the forces!!! In my experience the amount of time away means that being serious about climbing isn't an option. depending on posting it's so hard to get time off for anything.
>
>
> Teaching has to be up there doesn't it?
>
>
> Teaching has to be up there doesn't it?
Not really, crap money, long hours and getting your PGCE will make you terminally in debt. Also, you will find many teachers have to work through large chunks of their holidays either marking work or preparing lessons for the upcoming term.
In reply to Stanners:
thanks once again everyone. Anyone know a lot about Fire and resuce? As i heard you work 4days on 4days off which sounds ideal.
thanks once again everyone. Anyone know a lot about Fire and resuce? As i heard you work 4days on 4days off which sounds ideal.
In reply to Stanners:
I do!
Drop me a line if you want any details......
> (In reply to Stanners)
> thanks once again everyone. Anyone know a lot about Fire and resuce? As i heard you work 4days on 4days off which sounds ideal.
> thanks once again everyone. Anyone know a lot about Fire and resuce? As i heard you work 4days on 4days off which sounds ideal.
I do!
Drop me a line if you want any details......
In reply to Stanners:
What are you interested in other than climbing and the outdoors?
Just wondering...
What are you interested in other than climbing and the outdoors?
Just wondering...
In reply to Timmd:
umm...
- Cycling
- Sports Science
- Football
- Travelling
- Psychology
- Music(play the drums)
umm...
- Cycling
- Sports Science
- Football
- Travelling
- Psychology
- Music(play the drums)
In reply to Stanners:
You could get any number of different jobs offshore. Work two weeks on two weeks off.
As for becoming an instructor/guide:
Think of the noun.
You have to be comfortable instructing people, or guiding them.
A lot of your clients will be beginners. Most outdoor instructors do a lot of teaching how to tie a figure of eight knot / erect a tent / hold a paddle - year after year, teaching a long succession of beginners. Does this appeal? Are you comfortable being in a position of responsibility for people, in a situation where if you mess up they might get badly hurt or even die?
You could get any number of different jobs offshore. Work two weeks on two weeks off.
As for becoming an instructor/guide:
Think of the noun.
You have to be comfortable instructing people, or guiding them.
A lot of your clients will be beginners. Most outdoor instructors do a lot of teaching how to tie a figure of eight knot / erect a tent / hold a paddle - year after year, teaching a long succession of beginners. Does this appeal? Are you comfortable being in a position of responsibility for people, in a situation where if you mess up they might get badly hurt or even die?
In reply to Stanners:
I am a yoga teacher. I have a great job here in the Dominican Republic, teaching in a beautiful open-air studio, about 10m from the sea.
I teach in the mornings and at 6pm and have the afternoons free to kitesurf, scuba dive, mountain bike, whatever.
Not a bad life...
I am a yoga teacher. I have a great job here in the Dominican Republic, teaching in a beautiful open-air studio, about 10m from the sea.
I teach in the mornings and at 6pm and have the afternoons free to kitesurf, scuba dive, mountain bike, whatever.
Not a bad life...
In reply to Stanners:
Cool, it could be worth maybe doing something along side the instructing like sports science, where you study sports science while you get outdoor experience in, and it's something else you could do if you turn away from instructing? It's sometimes handy to have more than one string to your bow.
It's only an idea though...
> (In reply to Timmd)
> umm...
> - Cycling
> - Sports Science
> - Football
> - Travelling
> - Psychology
> - Music(play the drums)
> umm...
> - Cycling
> - Sports Science
> - Football
> - Travelling
> - Psychology
> - Music(play the drums)
Cool, it could be worth maybe doing something along side the instructing like sports science, where you study sports science while you get outdoor experience in, and it's something else you could do if you turn away from instructing? It's sometimes handy to have more than one string to your bow.
It's only an idea though...
In reply to Stanners: i work in retail which allows me total flexibility when it comes to days off. So i can plan to have the good weather days off and also take my two days off each week next to each other so every so often i get 4 days off together which allows me to get away somewhere.
Shit job though (boring)! Will be working in the outdoor industry at some point.... hopefully
Shit job though (boring)! Will be working in the outdoor industry at some point.... hopefully
In reply to sam.sam.sam.ferguson:
thanks again everyone, very greatfull. Looking at careers I never even considered..
thanks again everyone, very greatfull. Looking at careers I never even considered..
In reply to ice.solo:
Wise words and most is relevant to almost any career.
To the OP, for what it's worth my opionion is that if you are lucky enough to have the choice you should base your career on something that you can excel at; gives you satisfaction; and, gives you the time and financial stability to persue your hobbies and (in the future) gives you time to spend with your freinds and family. Guiding/ instructing may tick some of thes boxes but as others have suggested you may actually get more statisfaction from your climbing by retainnig it as a hobby.
Frank
> (In reply to Stanners)
>
> > if i draw up a profile of a pro-climber thats making real money and has a career, it would be something like:
> - athlete or professional responder background
> - international experience: connects to world trends
> - business savvy: can negotiate the industry world
> - self motivated: does stuff on their own bank account and time
> - takes risks: prepared to apply themselves when others may not
> - works partially in industry: gear development, industrial instructing, writing etc
> - industry aware: knows the low down of developments, people etc
> - trains seriously: 800 plus hrs a year
> - self-promoting: makes themselves known within the relevant scenarios
> - qualified: the basic papers needed
> - high novelty value: have other outstanding features that people notice, get them invited to events etc.
>
>>
> > if i draw up a profile of a pro-climber thats making real money and has a career, it would be something like:
> - athlete or professional responder background
> - international experience: connects to world trends
> - business savvy: can negotiate the industry world
> - self motivated: does stuff on their own bank account and time
> - takes risks: prepared to apply themselves when others may not
> - works partially in industry: gear development, industrial instructing, writing etc
> - industry aware: knows the low down of developments, people etc
> - trains seriously: 800 plus hrs a year
> - self-promoting: makes themselves known within the relevant scenarios
> - qualified: the basic papers needed
> - high novelty value: have other outstanding features that people notice, get them invited to events etc.
>
Wise words and most is relevant to almost any career.
To the OP, for what it's worth my opionion is that if you are lucky enough to have the choice you should base your career on something that you can excel at; gives you satisfaction; and, gives you the time and financial stability to persue your hobbies and (in the future) gives you time to spend with your freinds and family. Guiding/ instructing may tick some of thes boxes but as others have suggested you may actually get more statisfaction from your climbing by retainnig it as a hobby.
Frank
In reply to Stanners:
I am in exactly the same position as you. 15 nearly 16 and need to start thinking about what I want to do. Very very passionate climber. Pretty much my whole lofe revolves around it. I would love to be an instructor doing not only climbing but kayaking canoeing and lots more. But my parents dont seem to agree with this and always trying to convince me to go into something else. But they have said that with the build going ahead for these new pylons here, there will be about 12 years of work going on and they wanting climbers or people with good rope work and I would also pick up lots of other things along the way such as engineering etc. Another idea was become a paramedic because I love the adrenalin rush and the buzz I get from working with people and showing them something new, as I currently help out at a extreme sports company. But I have decided that I am going to try and get into college this year and do a extreme sports course and then come out and work towards getting qualified and then possible re-train as a paramedic which would also mean that later on I could help in Mountain Rescue which would also give me the buzz.
Another idea was the police force which I love the idea of but cause of the cuts, there are very few jobs about.
I did look to go into the armed forces for a long time but just fell in love with extreme sports and spent all my nights climbing and not revising for exams and I started hating school. This means that I didnt get as good as I was expected which left my parents shocked as they not climbers themselves and they dont understand why I enjoy it so much.
They're always trying to pressure me into something I dont really want to do.
My advice to you is to weigh it all up and see what you think. I know people who used to love the outdoors, but as they started doing it everyday and teaching the same thing over and over again they grown to hate it. Think about it long and hard. Dont rush into anything. Why dont you see if you can help out with a local extreme sports centre for a while and see what you think of it. I love it and have been with the company for nearly a year.
Anyway, best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
Lorenza-Lee Lockyer
I am in exactly the same position as you. 15 nearly 16 and need to start thinking about what I want to do. Very very passionate climber. Pretty much my whole lofe revolves around it. I would love to be an instructor doing not only climbing but kayaking canoeing and lots more. But my parents dont seem to agree with this and always trying to convince me to go into something else. But they have said that with the build going ahead for these new pylons here, there will be about 12 years of work going on and they wanting climbers or people with good rope work and I would also pick up lots of other things along the way such as engineering etc. Another idea was become a paramedic because I love the adrenalin rush and the buzz I get from working with people and showing them something new, as I currently help out at a extreme sports company. But I have decided that I am going to try and get into college this year and do a extreme sports course and then come out and work towards getting qualified and then possible re-train as a paramedic which would also mean that later on I could help in Mountain Rescue which would also give me the buzz.
Another idea was the police force which I love the idea of but cause of the cuts, there are very few jobs about.
I did look to go into the armed forces for a long time but just fell in love with extreme sports and spent all my nights climbing and not revising for exams and I started hating school. This means that I didnt get as good as I was expected which left my parents shocked as they not climbers themselves and they dont understand why I enjoy it so much.
They're always trying to pressure me into something I dont really want to do.
My advice to you is to weigh it all up and see what you think. I know people who used to love the outdoors, but as they started doing it everyday and teaching the same thing over and over again they grown to hate it. Think about it long and hard. Dont rush into anything. Why dont you see if you can help out with a local extreme sports centre for a while and see what you think of it. I love it and have been with the company for nearly a year.
Anyway, best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
Lorenza-Lee Lockyer
In reply to Stanners:
I've been working at the Clachaig Inn in Glencoe for almost 3 years, and I manage to get out climbing or walking sometimes up to 4 or 5 times a week. I think it would be fairly hard to find a job with more opportunities to get out on the hill than the one I have just now
James
I've been working at the Clachaig Inn in Glencoe for almost 3 years, and I manage to get out climbing or walking sometimes up to 4 or 5 times a week. I think it would be fairly hard to find a job with more opportunities to get out on the hill than the one I have just now
James
In reply to Stanners:
I belong to a mountaineering club and most members are able to climb/ do outdoors stuff as well as at weekends, they club has a range of professions (engineers, teachers, builders, accountants, assessors, doctor, etc). Its not what you do but what you do with your time, if you have the income then climbing in the week after work and being in the mountains at weekends is easily achievable. As previously stated choose something you want to do but think carefully about working in the outdoors industry, poor pay, poor hours, maybe being out in outdoors but babysitting people not climbing/walking things you want to do.
I belong to a mountaineering club and most members are able to climb/ do outdoors stuff as well as at weekends, they club has a range of professions (engineers, teachers, builders, accountants, assessors, doctor, etc). Its not what you do but what you do with your time, if you have the income then climbing in the week after work and being in the mountains at weekends is easily achievable. As previously stated choose something you want to do but think carefully about working in the outdoors industry, poor pay, poor hours, maybe being out in outdoors but babysitting people not climbing/walking things you want to do.
In reply to Lorenza-Lee Lockyer:
this is weird. Everything you are saying is exactly the same with me. Every single career you have mentioned I have strongly considered! haha, great minds think alike I suppose!
this is weird. Everything you are saying is exactly the same with me. Every single career you have mentioned I have strongly considered! haha, great minds think alike I suppose!
In reply to Stanners:
Perhaps its just us young'un climbers that think like that. haha Everyone else thinks im mad!
> (In reply to Lorenza-Lee Lockyer)
> this is weird. Everything you are saying is exactly the same with me. Every single career you have mentioned I have strongly considered! haha, great minds think alike I suppose!
> this is weird. Everything you are saying is exactly the same with me. Every single career you have mentioned I have strongly considered! haha, great minds think alike I suppose!
Perhaps its just us young'un climbers that think like that. haha Everyone else thinks im mad!
In reply to Stanners:
If you choose to follow a path that involves the outdoors, you can find yourself at the age of 25 struck down by a series of medical conditions with no known cause that can leave you weak, dependent upon drugs, and partially paralysed. Been there. Then what?
If you go for the money, I would echo what someone else said above - think of location.
You can spend a lot more time in the mountains as an IT nerd in Edinburgh than you can as an IT nerd in London (I've done both).
BUT whatever you choose, there is a chance that at some point (possibly after your 40th birthday) the world will change, and your carefully honed skills will no longer be in demand, and you will find yourself in competition for entry-level jobs with young twenty-somethings, and getting nowhere.
This can hit you whatever career you choose. Been there too, and I know lots of others who have hit that wall, even when doing jobs that have the appearance of being cutting edge. Then what?
Now I am back being a student, loving it, and leading the occasional expedition, and loving that, too, controlling the various medical conditions through a combination of drug therapy, restrictive diet, othotics, and a careful choice of what I attempt.
Point is - stuff happens. Good stuff. Bad stuff. Or just stuff.
Planning is important. Vital.
But you also need to be able to spot the stuff that is happening, and deal with it.
If you choose to follow a path that involves the outdoors, you can find yourself at the age of 25 struck down by a series of medical conditions with no known cause that can leave you weak, dependent upon drugs, and partially paralysed. Been there. Then what?
If you go for the money, I would echo what someone else said above - think of location.
You can spend a lot more time in the mountains as an IT nerd in Edinburgh than you can as an IT nerd in London (I've done both).
BUT whatever you choose, there is a chance that at some point (possibly after your 40th birthday) the world will change, and your carefully honed skills will no longer be in demand, and you will find yourself in competition for entry-level jobs with young twenty-somethings, and getting nowhere.
This can hit you whatever career you choose. Been there too, and I know lots of others who have hit that wall, even when doing jobs that have the appearance of being cutting edge. Then what?
Now I am back being a student, loving it, and leading the occasional expedition, and loving that, too, controlling the various medical conditions through a combination of drug therapy, restrictive diet, othotics, and a careful choice of what I attempt.
Point is - stuff happens. Good stuff. Bad stuff. Or just stuff.
Planning is important. Vital.
But you also need to be able to spot the stuff that is happening, and deal with it.
In reply to Stanners:
An alternative approach - ask yourself what sort of person you would like to be, and then look for the sort of job that reinforces this.
An alternative approach - ask yourself what sort of person you would like to be, and then look for the sort of job that reinforces this.
In reply to almost sane:
Very 'honest' and realistic post, cheers. Definitely going to consider everything mentioned, with location of whatever job i choose being a primary concern.
Very 'honest' and realistic post, cheers. Definitely going to consider everything mentioned, with location of whatever job i choose being a primary concern.
In reply to Stanners:
I think the one key point in this whole topic is making sure the job is something that you want to do, that way, it's not really work. I work on the technical side of operating a Plasser Theurer RM900 RT which equates to being on track 6 nights a week. At first that would sound like hell, but the reality is with possession lengths on UK rail being so short, your average working night starts at 11:15pm and has you tucked up in bed for 4:00am, and you don't have to work the 6th night if you don't want to.
Prior to this I tried all sorts of roles in the engineering sector, from the 9-5, self employed, contracting, all were great but the renumeration paled in comparison and free time was non existant. These days I find myself climbing 5 days a week at a minimum.
Just make sure the work is something you love. Make sure you don't love it too much though, otherwise time flys that little bit too quickly to appreciate whats going on!
I think the one key point in this whole topic is making sure the job is something that you want to do, that way, it's not really work. I work on the technical side of operating a Plasser Theurer RM900 RT which equates to being on track 6 nights a week. At first that would sound like hell, but the reality is with possession lengths on UK rail being so short, your average working night starts at 11:15pm and has you tucked up in bed for 4:00am, and you don't have to work the 6th night if you don't want to.
Prior to this I tried all sorts of roles in the engineering sector, from the 9-5, self employed, contracting, all were great but the renumeration paled in comparison and free time was non existant. These days I find myself climbing 5 days a week at a minimum.
Just make sure the work is something you love. Make sure you don't love it too much though, otherwise time flys that little bit too quickly to appreciate whats going on!
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