UKC

Hi guys
To my shame iv never got to grips with using a compass and map, always been out
with friends, or in places I know vy well, or use my gps. I'm just asking for
any recommendations for a guide that I could hire for a day in north Wales to
teach me the basics. Looking to do this soon as possible.
Thanks in advance for any help
Cheers

In reply to trollman: not sue if this is a troll however i will take the bait.
basic compass skills is pretty much all you need for a day out on the hills.the way i learnt is to buy a small information book and took myself out one day to an area with landmarks that i could pick up easily and identify on the map and just tried to put into practice what i read .quite satisfying actually when you get to grips with it.
one tip maybe is to buy a decent compass as the needle rotates to north alot quicker than a cheap one.imo.
im sure youll find someone on here highly qualified but if you can learn the basics before you go you could pick up a lot more knowledge on the day..gd luck

In reply to trollman: I've sent this link to a few who may be up for a bit of training. You can teach yourselves the basics, which I'd recommend before you spend any money- at least so you're familiar with a compass etc first.

In reply to colina: Def not a troll, chose user name before knowing what a forum troll
was/is, must get round to changing it!. I have read up on the theory in the past but never
got round to trying it out on the hills, so reckon a days teaching will give me the kick to
start praticeing. I'm good at reading a map and knowing where I am in fair weather, but
have to use gps when the mist rolls in, never asked mates cause too embarrassed.
I have a good compass but don't think iv ever used it out on the hills.
cheers andy

In reply to trollman:

Hi My name is Graham Munns known as Munzy, I am based in the Wrexham area (covering N-wales) and I am a free lance Mountain Leader. I also Provide national navigation awards (Google NNAS). I am free most weekends to take you out and teach you navigation to meet your needs. If you wish to talk more then please do contact me on 07859225780 or grahammunns@talktalk.net.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Kind regards,

Graham

In reply to trollman:

Get a copy of this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mountain-Navigation-Peter-Cliff/dp/1871890551/ref=s...

In reply to Horse:


Seconded

In reply to hokkyokusei: Thanks guys, looking forward to that book dropping though
my letterbox in a few days, and hopefully will sort a day out on the hill As well.
Andy

In reply to trollman:

I don't see the problem with just using a GPS. The truth is that paper maps and magnetic compasses are past their sell by date. GPS is the better technology. There is a lot of inertia, nostalgia and investment in skills in the old technology but fundamentally it is not as good and every year the gap is growing and paper maps are becoming less useful.

People argue that a GPS is not completely reliable but when just about every smartphone can run ViewRanger (which runs off downloaded maps so no need for a cellphone signal) it is easy to have multiple GPS's.

An iPhone can be made rugged and waterproof enough to use as an outdoor GPS with a £15 case and another 20 quid will buy a really big reserve battery that can recharge them multiple times. When it is windy a phone or GPS is easier to handle than a paper map.

Why would anyone muck about taking bearings and counting steps over broken ground to try and stay on course in poor visibility when they could whip out your phone or GPS and just keep the little blue dot over the intended route on a map on its screen.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh: And when you fumble your iPhone and it smashes to pieces 200ft below you during poor conditions mid way through the day?

In reply to ChrisHolloway1:

I'd do pretty much the same as when your map blows away in the wind....

A GPS is no more likely to be lost than a map. If you are paranoid I guess you could put a leash on the phone case just like a map case or make sure there is a backup GPS in the party.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh: The biggest problem I've found with using gps as an exclusive navigation tool is the lack of 'field of vision'. With a map you can get both a lot of detail and a broad area in one image, and this makes route choice so much easier.

Using a garmin edge at the weekend, and trying to pick paths even in somewhere we knew well, was tricky on the relatively small screen - you can see where you are and what paths go off, but it can be difficult to establish which one ends up where you want from that small snap shot. I can imagine this is even more awkward in some Scottish regions, with rocky terrain and the access law being reflected in the maps (i.e. no legal footpaths marked).

Gps has value for point location and possibly as a compass, but if there is ever a need to adapt or change a route whilst out in the field, it is nowhere near as useful as a conventional paper map.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Take out my spare map? Or the GPS I carry in my bag?

In reply to Liam M:

I think the main problem you are having with seeing enough of the map is the limited screen resolution of the Garmin Edge which is 160x240 pixels whereas an iPhone 4S is 960x640 pixels.

You definitely need a good screen to see enough map to get context and good user interface features like the pinch gesture iPhones have to zoom in and out and finger drag to pan help. On the iPhone (and I would guess on Android phones and the higher end Garmin's) I'd say the GPS would be good enough for route planning on a walk. At home I'd probably use an iPad or a PC to get an even bigger screen in preference to a paper map.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Don't you find it's nice to see the whole area without having to zoom out and generally faff? But then I find looking at and reading maps quite relaxing and makes me want to go places.

In reply to chlobach:
Yes, I like to see the whole area and I own lots of paper maps. But recently I've been finding that on screen is less faff than paper and the paper doesn't get used. At home I'd use an iPad for route planning and that size of screen can show a whole days walking at good resolution.

With paper maps you have to find the right one and fold it to see the bit you want or discover the area you want is split over two different maps. Zoom and pan with a fingertip on an iPad to exactly what you want to see is easier. And there is the convenience of downloading map tiles instantly rather than going to a shop.

I'm moving to the view that technology has improved enough that paper maps and compasses are no longer necessary or useful as long as you take steps to make the GPS reliable (e.g. spare batteries, rugged case, two GPS in the party).

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Somehow I suspect reading a GPS on the loo is quite so satisfying as reading a map on the loo.

In reply to trollman: Plas y Brenin are advertising last minute nav skills course at the moment. I haven't looked at the price but might be worth a google.

In reply to MG:

I hadn't thought of that - but on the loo is one situation where paper would come up trumps.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Horses for courses. I'd like to see you do a score event on the OMM with your iPhone. Good luck.

In reply to Eric the Red:

"Use of GPS and mobile phones is not allowed. Mobile phones, including those with a GPS function, may be carried, but must be presented at registration switched off and sealed in a bag by the organisers, and remain off throughout the duration of the event, except in a case of emergency where a team has retired."

So the rules say you are not allowed a GPS in the OMM. Why? Presumably because someone with GPS on an iPhone would have an advantage over competitors using a map and compass.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh: Or someone trying to run the marathon with an iPhone would be putting themselves in harms way as they would be under prepared.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

Tom... listen to what your saying, Of course a Map & compass is better its a fact. on your ML you would be shot down for not taking a paper map.

Yes GPS is ok for emergencies ect... but that is it! what if the battery goes? your f*cked. carrying spares is more weight and/or you can not recharge them in the hills.

I use the word "Hills" because you seem the type who doesn't really do much. (Weekend Walker)

rant over!!!

Now can we find Trollman some help, its not your topic.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:
And what happens when your map blows away, the batteries run out on your GPS and your compass gets its field reversed?!

I always take a ball of wool, its much more reliable than bread crumbs...!

Trollman- get a book and have a play, there are lots about so no need to go into details here about what to do. Hillwalking by Steve long is good (others are available) if you wanted some hands on coaching and wanted to get involved in the National Navigation Award Scheme then I'm a provider so get in touch.
Anyway good luck with it.

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh: Hi Tom, interesting what you say but I don't feel the map and compass is dead yet. Its lighter and easier to carry a spare map than a GPS. I run memory map on my iphone but can watch the battery running down on it whilst its in use so its only a backup for me. Changing batteries and operating touch screens in the dark and a whiteout with gloves on is often impractical. Whilst the GPS can show me where I am on a map there is more to it than that- you need to get a feel for the relief and what the contour features actually translate to on the ground. Learning to orientate a paper map (larger view than most gps screens) using features is an important step in this process.
In reply to Trollman: For an excellent modern take on navigation (map and compass AND info. on GPS) I can recommend:The Ultimate Navigation Manual by Lyle Brotheton http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ultimate-Navigation-Manual-Lyle-Brotherton/dp/00074...
For help with your nav. anyone providing NNAS awards or an MIA/MIC/Guide who is experienced in working on Summer (or, even better winter) Mountain Leader Courses will be able to assist.
Al

In reply to trollman:

Ianr who is on here, or his wife Sarah may be able to help. They are more into running off road, but both are qualified ml and may have time in their schedule...

http://www.runsnowdonia.co.uk/

In reply to tom_in_edinburgh: and here is the problem: http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2012/02/14/lost-walker-rescued-after-gps-b...