/ Grivel Pan Pipes Vs Petzl Iceflute

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Boulderdash86 on 16 Mar 2012
Just wondering what people have found better - the iceflute looks much easier at getting ice screws out, whereas the Pan pipes look like you could have problems getting a sling off from your body.

What have people foudn worked - or have you made your own that is so much better than what you can buy?
iksander on 16 Mar 2012
In reply to Boulderdash86: Haven't used the pan pipes arrangement, but individual expressos are better than flutes IMHO. The tabs on the flutes are more of a faff (esp with 360s) and less secure at holding a screw.
Boulderdash86 on 16 Mar 2012
In reply to iksander: the expressos - do they just clip stright on the harness then?
In reply to Boulderdash86: Tried both, don't really get on with either. This http://www.frozentime.se/climbing/iceclip.html has worked for me for years. Cheap and in an emergency you have more full strength krabs.
jonnie3430 - on 16 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA:

Petzl caritool, a plastic version of the thing toby showed. Good for clipping heads of axes to when they aren't being used too.
Trevor Langhorne on 16 Mar 2012
In reply to Boulderdash86:

I would go for Ice Flutes virtually every time; I wear mine on a bandolier. Don't like the Grivels, they don't seem to hold any but the longest screws as well and are a bugger to get attached to your harness or bandolier (threading the neoprene strap through the simple buckle requires the strength of popeye and the patience of a saint). I do have one Grivel which is better than a flute for a 22cm screw.

It is, of course, a matter of personal preference, I suggest you see if you have a mate who can loan you one of each to try out at home (or even on Stanage to confuse people!). If you can't get on with either or both of them in ideal conditions then you have no chance when trussed up in winter gear and miles above your last dodgy screw.
John Rushby - on 16 Mar 2012
In reply to Boulderdash86:

Been using the pan pipes for a few years. THey are ok, but can get a bit fiddly and catch the rope. They also move about a bit but once the side belt is sorted they are reasonably stable.

I use a twin inverted crab system. It is basically two snapgates linked together by a metal rod. They are inverted and clipped arond the harness waistbelt. All in the wrist action as they say, but I can rack 3 screws on each. I also have a set on my right hand side(left handed) in case I need to swap hands - just makes life easier.

This is a single version

http://www.camp-usa.com/products/ice-screws/hub-910.asp

I got mine in the late 90's from a shop in Banff. Not seen any since though.
John Rushby - on 16 Mar 2012
In reply to John Rushby:

sort of like Toby's doohickey, but not quite so much of "made of brass and engineering from the days of the Empire
iksander on 16 Mar 2012
In reply to iksander: A couple of mates have had them for years and they haven't broken them, but they work no better than the DIY version, plus I can fold mine flat for transport and if need be you have two spare krabs.
Boulderdash86 on 19 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA: Think I've got my self a little project - now to find some old krabs that I don't need - or if anyone has some going spare they are willing to get rid of - don't mind a donation to MR or cover P&P - however think wire gates would be the way forward.
Al Randall on 19 Mar 2012
In reply to Boulderdash86: I've tried all of these over the years but without a doubt the best for me is the Simond Ice Rack. It's better than the home made version because the krabs are so big and the gates open so wide. There are a couple of design features that would improve it however. The metal used is flat but quite wide and I can't get the holes on my axe head through it. The metal down the spine should be turned 90 degrees so that it feels more comfy when threaded behind the harness which is how I prefer to wear mine rather than hanging from gear loops. Come on Simond or better still DMM.

Al
In reply to Boulderdash86:
> however think wire gates would be the way forward.

keylocks are best, the hanger of the screw can't catch then.
nniff - on 19 Mar 2012
In reply to Boulderdash86:

I've had one of the diy things for years, except mine's drilled and held together/apart with coat hanger wire and araldite. Works really well - gate opening at the top seems to be the most successful - suing old straight D krabs. In a moment of weakness I bought one of the Simond thingies this year though and it works really well too. I think the single plastic BD/Petzl versions are a waste of time.

I also have five Petzl flutes which also work well, and tend to be used for the 'grab in a hurry' screws. They are just clipped onto gear loops.
John Rushby - on 19 Mar 2012
In reply to iksander:

Yep - that's the one.

Bought mine in Canada in about 98 and it has seen plenty of service and abused by an ice climber of no particular finesse. Best racking system I have used TBH, though pan pipes are handy for transporting screws around in my bag

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