/ Goretex Active Shells jackets minus hoods

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I just saw one of the new Marmot Goretex Active shell jackets in a local shop. The most noticeable thing about it (along with a vented back like my late 80s Peter Storm cag!) was the lack of a hood. I think Arcteryx has a similar non-hood model.

Normally I can see a market niche for most outdoor clothing: it might not be what I want, but jacket X could be exactly what someone else wants. But these hoodless waterproofs really stump me. I have hoodless windshells for cycling and (for me, very occasional) running - but these are normally light and rather cheap. At 300 EUR/USD, I'm really interested to know who might consider jackets like these? I guess the idea is that it is an all day, all weather shell for cyclists/MTBers and the like. Perhaps I've been so conditioned by the limits of waterproof/breathable materials, that I at least find it hard to think of wearing a "waterproof jacket" all day if it's not raining for doing any type of aerobic sport, just because I get so sweaty in them. But then again, I often spend the whole day in the mountains or riding my bike wearing a windproof. So is Active Shell THAT breathable?

Interested in thoughts of others.
Captain Gear - on 21 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA:

I've got a Mountain Equipment Firelite.

It is very very breathable. Much more breathable than any other hardshell I've used. I've ran for an hour in the rain whilst wearing it and not get too hot/sweaty.

It doesn't feel anywhere near as windproof as normal Gore Tex though.

HTH
In reply to Captain Gear:

> It doesn't feel anywhere near as windproof as normal Gore Tex though.

This gets back to the discussion we were having over Neoshell, but in what way does it not feel windproof? Degrees of windproofness is a difficult concept.
Mr Fuller on 21 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA: I don't see the point of them either. If it's raining then you need a hood, and if it's not raining then you wear a windshirt and save yourself some weight and money.

By Gore's own admission, Active Shell's durability is an issue, and so in my mind a £300 superlight jacket should only be used where the difference in performance between it and another fabric is critical to success.

Regarding windproofness of Active Shell: it is completely windproof, just like 'normal' Gore-Tex, as its air permeability is zero. It might feel less windproof because the fabric is thinner, meaning that the increased bellows effect and buffetting from the wind will increase convective heat flow.
In reply to Mr Fuller:
> If it's raining then you need a hood,

Maybe Mountain bikers don't want hoods? I can't remember ever riding with a hood up... But otherwise inclined to agree.
Nick Harvey - on 21 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA: I have a hoodless eVent jacket and its the biz for commuting (or I guess any cycling in the rain, its just I don't go out on the bike for fun when its raining). Regardless of how hard its raining, I have never wanted a hood (I confess I do have a helmet cover, but its deeply uncool). So they definitely have a purpose. Off the bike, I agree. But then again, I wouldn't go to Arc'teryx for a cycling jacket!
Captain Gear - on 21 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to Captain Gear)
>
> [...]
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> but in what way does it not feel windproof?

I mean if you go out in a full houlie a proper Gore Tex jacket, like my ME Tupilak, it feels a lot more windproof than my active shell jacket, which doesn't feel as windproof.

Nothing scientific about just how it feel to me.
Mr Fuller on 21 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to Mr Fuller)
> [...]
>
> Maybe Mountain bikers don't want hoods? I can't remember ever riding with a hood up... But otherwise inclined to agree.

Yeah, completely forgot about cycling... Then again, if I'm on a mountain bike I'll never wear a waterproof so I don't have to wash it afterwards!

The wind feel versus air permeability is really interesting and I might see if I get the time to carry out some research on it.
In reply to Nick Harvey:
> (In reply to TobyA) I have a hoodless eVent jacket and its the biz for commuting

You don't get too hot/sweaty in it? I bought a Haglöf Windstopper jacket once with commuting in cooler weather in mind, but found it hopelessly unbreathable. I'd just end up drenched with sweat. Some 10 pound Decathlon windproof works sooo much better than this thing 12 times its price!
Nick Harvey - on 21 Mar 2012
In reply to TobyA: Can't say I do, and I have been known to cycle home at a reasonable pace, tho mostly its a plod. I have even been known to wear it in the dry over a baselayer as I find it cooler than my cycling softshell. Doing a fair bit of running to work at the mo, so next time its dumping down I will wear it in the name of science. I suspect that will cause some dampness.

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