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Hey everyone.
So I've finalised things for the clean up. We will be starting the clean up on Sunday 29.04.12 around 1000hrs. I've written bellow what needs to be done, and added a little kit list of what needs to be taken (if you have it). I will be there to coordinate the clean up and to make sure everything goes to plan.
If your wanting to come please comment below just as a rough indication of how many we're expecting.
Pre-clean up (what needs to be done?)
• Clean top
• Clean routes (including heather on back wall at the top and all grass on routes)
• Clean moss/ lichen of routes (takes some scrubbing!)
• Test boulder on back wall for soundness
• Remove tree at top of route (forgot name)
• Test soundness of stakes, and add/ remove stakes (BMC?)
• Clean bottom –bits of grass at bottom especially under bouldering wall and also underneath the route “The Harp”
• Remove glass and big pieces of rock
• Dig new channel for water from bouldering wall
Equipment
Climbing equipment:
• Harness;
• Shoes;
• (Old) Ropes;
• Safe method of abseiling ( I can assist if needs be, if friends what to come and help I’m more than happy to help);
• Rope protectors;
• HELMET – Quite a few small loose rocks at the top that will be swept down/ accidently kicked. Would be a good idea if you have one, just in case.
• Rope bags to protect the rope on the floor – a lot of glass around!
Cleaning equipment:
• Range of Brushes (big bristled – for floor, small stiff one for routes – wire damages the rock, so do not use etc..);
• Trowel – for getting rid of earth and grass from the routes;
• Secateurs/ shears – to cut vegetation back at the top of the back wall;
• Hammer – removing dodgy pieces of fixed gear;
• Spade for removing earth from the top of back wall;
• Bags for rubbish;
• Small saw?
Optional:
• Camera – post to UKC?
• Food/ water;
• I’ll bring a first aid kit just in case
• Mobile – I will have one to hand too
Cleaning the Quarry
Just a few ideas on how we could go about cleaning the quarry:
• Clean the top (where the stakes are) first. Brushing all rubbish down to the bottom (be careful of climbers/ people below).
• Clean top of back wall with all the overhanging vegetation (all heather).
• Test stakes – they do look in reasonable condition, not looked at the ones the back wall – Also the stakes have been there for a while and are prone to corrosion from beneath (ie we can’t see what the worse is. Will work on new stakes from BMC).
• Look at boulder on back wall that looks loose (decide what happens on the outcome of the test);
• Start from the top and work down;
• Depending on how many of us there are, it will probably be easier to work from the edges inwards. After a route has been cleaned, it is then ticked off.
• Remove tree at top of route on ledge just right of the finish of Gideon;
• Rig an abseil (If you’re not sure ASK - Slightly different from a top rope, we’re there to learn as well. Abseiling is more dangerous than climbing!);
• Abseil down and clean with small bristled brush;
• Remove earth/ glass from holds and cracks (May need to use trowel or nut key to get in them hard to reach places. If you’re really keen maybe a toothbrush!);
• Dodgy pieces of fixed gear (ie pitons) – remember where they are and make a note. Replace if bad;
• Sweep floor of all glass etc... and bag up. – Can arrange a skip for a day from the council;
• Dig new channel for water from bouldering wall
• BMC notices – See if we can get hold of them and work something out with the council (future plans not a priority for the clean-up.)
• Pub for a pint? 
PDF FROM BMC REGARDING CLEAN UPS AND THE LAW:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=153
If your wanting to come please comment below just as a rough indication of how many we're expecting.
So I've finalised things for the clean up. We will be starting the clean up on Sunday 29.04.12 around 1000hrs. I've written bellow what needs to be done, and added a little kit list of what needs to be taken (if you have it). I will be there to coordinate the clean up and to make sure everything goes to plan.
If your wanting to come please comment below just as a rough indication of how many we're expecting.
Pre-clean up (what needs to be done?)
• Clean top
• Clean routes (including heather on back wall at the top and all grass on routes)
• Clean moss/ lichen of routes (takes some scrubbing!)
• Test boulder on back wall for soundness
• Remove tree at top of route (forgot name)
• Test soundness of stakes, and add/ remove stakes (BMC?)
• Clean bottom –bits of grass at bottom especially under bouldering wall and also underneath the route “The Harp”
• Remove glass and big pieces of rock
• Dig new channel for water from bouldering wall
Equipment
Climbing equipment:
• Harness;
• Shoes;
• (Old) Ropes;
• Safe method of abseiling ( I can assist if needs be, if friends what to come and help I’m more than happy to help);
• Rope protectors;
• HELMET – Quite a few small loose rocks at the top that will be swept down/ accidently kicked. Would be a good idea if you have one, just in case.
• Rope bags to protect the rope on the floor – a lot of glass around!
Cleaning equipment:
• Range of Brushes (big bristled – for floor, small stiff one for routes – wire damages the rock, so do not use etc..);
• Trowel – for getting rid of earth and grass from the routes;
• Secateurs/ shears – to cut vegetation back at the top of the back wall;
• Hammer – removing dodgy pieces of fixed gear;
• Spade for removing earth from the top of back wall;
• Bags for rubbish;
• Small saw?
Optional:
• Camera – post to UKC?
• Food/ water;
• I’ll bring a first aid kit just in case
• Mobile – I will have one to hand too
Cleaning the Quarry
Just a few ideas on how we could go about cleaning the quarry:
• Clean the top (where the stakes are) first. Brushing all rubbish down to the bottom (be careful of climbers/ people below).
• Clean top of back wall with all the overhanging vegetation (all heather).
• Test stakes – they do look in reasonable condition, not looked at the ones the back wall – Also the stakes have been there for a while and are prone to corrosion from beneath (ie we can’t see what the worse is. Will work on new stakes from BMC).
• Look at boulder on back wall that looks loose (decide what happens on the outcome of the test);
• Start from the top and work down;
• Depending on how many of us there are, it will probably be easier to work from the edges inwards. After a route has been cleaned, it is then ticked off.
• Remove tree at top of route on ledge just right of the finish of Gideon;
• Rig an abseil (If you’re not sure ASK - Slightly different from a top rope, we’re there to learn as well. Abseiling is more dangerous than climbing!);
• Abseil down and clean with small bristled brush;
• Remove earth/ glass from holds and cracks (May need to use trowel or nut key to get in them hard to reach places. If you’re really keen maybe a toothbrush!);
• Dodgy pieces of fixed gear (ie pitons) – remember where they are and make a note. Replace if bad;
• Sweep floor of all glass etc... and bag up. – Can arrange a skip for a day from the council;
• Dig new channel for water from bouldering wall
• BMC notices – See if we can get hold of them and work something out with the council (future plans not a priority for the clean-up.)
• Pub for a pint? 
PDF FROM BMC REGARDING CLEAN UPS AND THE LAW:
http://www.thebmc.co.uk/Handlers/DownloadHandler.ashx?id=153
If your wanting to come please comment below just as a rough indication of how many we're expecting.
In reply to eddzzz: nice work mate i might be there
In reply to eddzzz: I don't think I'll be able to make it but another few stakes over the back wall, especially from the centre to the left hand end would definitely encourage more traffic. Trimming the heather that hides the existing ones would be a good idea too. I cleaned up raindrop and a few others in that area last year, it's the central routes that are probably suffering the most
In reply to eddzzz:
Please leave the tree; it's not doing or causing any harm to any of the climbs.
Hobson Moor is bleak enough in the first place; the main problem is the glass, then the rubbish. The climbs have been cleaned many times in the 24 years I have climbed there; a lack of traffic means a bit of heather starts to grow again and unless you can get more people climbing on the back wall it will be soon be back to how it was. In the early 90's the back wall was more like sports climbing due to the amount of pegs, this didn't stop nature re-claiming it.
Hope the clean-up goes well, and sorry I can't make it.
Please leave the tree; it's not doing or causing any harm to any of the climbs.
Hobson Moor is bleak enough in the first place; the main problem is the glass, then the rubbish. The climbs have been cleaned many times in the 24 years I have climbed there; a lack of traffic means a bit of heather starts to grow again and unless you can get more people climbing on the back wall it will be soon be back to how it was. In the early 90's the back wall was more like sports climbing due to the amount of pegs, this didn't stop nature re-claiming it.
Hope the clean-up goes well, and sorry I can't make it.
In reply to eddzzz:
I agree with Craig in that the tree is in no way impeding the climbing and hence does not need to be removed.
I think the best way to encourage traffic onto the back wall is not trimming the heather but installing double bolt lower-offs just below the top, as has happened at Den Lane with only positive results...
I'm not sure if I can make it or not yet, but I'll certainly try!
I agree with Craig in that the tree is in no way impeding the climbing and hence does not need to be removed.
I think the best way to encourage traffic onto the back wall is not trimming the heather but installing double bolt lower-offs just below the top, as has happened at Den Lane with only positive results...
I'm not sure if I can make it or not yet, but I'll certainly try!
In reply to Dan Lane: Will discuss the tree on the day. Not a major priority on the day. Also the vegetation at the top of the back wall needs to be trimmed as it seeps for a few days after rain. Even more so it covers the rock in lichen too. Would in turn encourage more people to use the back wall if there was no lichen about. A lot of people disagree with the option of bolting the back wall. (Different from lower offs I know but just seems to be the view. Maybe we can discuss at the clean up? Would be great if you can make it. Cheers,
Ed
Ed
In reply to eddzzz:
I will raise Dan's suggestion of bolted loweroffs for the back wall at the BMC NW area committee meeting in Bolton tonight. Any bolts on grit, even quarried grit, tend to be contentious. However the topouts on the back wall routes do also tend to be "character building", some loose gravel and assorted veg. No worse than other crags I guess. Think the Den Lane example is different because of the lack of obvious descents, hardly a problem at Hobby.
Paul
I will raise Dan's suggestion of bolted loweroffs for the back wall at the BMC NW area committee meeting in Bolton tonight. Any bolts on grit, even quarried grit, tend to be contentious. However the topouts on the back wall routes do also tend to be "character building", some loose gravel and assorted veg. No worse than other crags I guess. Think the Den Lane example is different because of the lack of obvious descents, hardly a problem at Hobby.
Paul
In reply to eddzzz:
the rock at the top of the back wall is not good enough to hold bolts in general (rock structure changes at 2/3rds height and becomes much more sandy and broken above that). I was just trying to make the point that in my opinion, cutting the heather won't make a lot of difference to the popularity but I agree it would make it drier/less lichenous.
like I say, hope to see you there.
the rock at the top of the back wall is not good enough to hold bolts in general (rock structure changes at 2/3rds height and becomes much more sandy and broken above that). I was just trying to make the point that in my opinion, cutting the heather won't make a lot of difference to the popularity but I agree it would make it drier/less lichenous.
like I say, hope to see you there.
In reply to eddzzz: Anymore help we can get will be greatly appreciated!
In reply to Paul Evans: I hope the suggestion of bolted lower-offs was met with a resounding no...
In reply to andy healey: Are you coming to the clean up on Sunday ah? Would be good if you could. Bolting tends to be a sensitive issue at Hobby. When routes have been bolted in the past they have been removed. I, so far, have never used the back wall for climbing on but maybe this summer and when there's no lichen on it. More people needed. Have e-mailed everyone who sent me a message asking if they could help and only a few have replied :/ I'll be there whatever the weather.
In reply to andy healey: bolted lower offs would be an entirely pointless idea. the top outs are generally the least of the problems on these routes. As i've said before, more stakes and less heather will encourage top-rope traffic, and since many of the routes there are no longer well protected as the pegs are all broken/rusty. it seems like the best option as a training venue.
In reply to JamieSparkes:
BMC NW area committee meet actually thought the pegs would be OK. Some are said to be stainless steel cemented in. I haven't eyeballed 'em in person so I don't know. If they don't get checked out at weekend, I'll have a look in next few weeks.
Cheers
Paul
BMC NW area committee meet actually thought the pegs would be OK. Some are said to be stainless steel cemented in. I haven't eyeballed 'em in person so I don't know. If they don't get checked out at weekend, I'll have a look in next few weeks.
Cheers
Paul
In reply to eddzzz:
I never said I wanted lower-offs, I just said that it's the only thing that would me a difference. As far as I'm concerned there is a perfectly adequate number of stakes on the back wall.
out of interest, how do you plan to test the stakes that are currently there non-destructively?
I never said I wanted lower-offs, I just said that it's the only thing that would me a difference. As far as I'm concerned there is a perfectly adequate number of stakes on the back wall.
out of interest, how do you plan to test the stakes that are currently there non-destructively?
In reply to Dan Lane: After looking at this picture it really made me think about the condition of the stakes. Many of the stakes at Hobby look like this one here:
http://www.outdoor-learning.org/Portals/0/IOL%20Documents/AALSLogEntries/20...
Were going to take the most horrid eroded stake out and see what it is like underneath. Also the bolts at the top of the main wall have been there for over 20 years! So we're going to take one out too
I'M ALSO GOING TO BE THERE SATURDAY EVENING TO MAKE A HEAD START IN THE SUN. FEEL FREE TO JOIN. (It's most likely going to be periods of light rain on Sunday so it should help keep the dust down from sweeping the floor. I'll be there whatever the weather!
http://www.outdoor-learning.org/Portals/0/IOL%20Documents/AALSLogEntries/20...
Were going to take the most horrid eroded stake out and see what it is like underneath. Also the bolts at the top of the main wall have been there for over 20 years! So we're going to take one out too
I'M ALSO GOING TO BE THERE SATURDAY EVENING TO MAKE A HEAD START IN THE SUN. FEEL FREE TO JOIN. (It's most likely going to be periods of light rain on Sunday so it should help keep the dust down from sweeping the floor. I'll be there whatever the weather!
In reply to eddzzz:
My tuppence worth as a Hobby regular ...
1. There is no need for bolt lower offs. Dan has clarified that he wasn't suggesting this.
2. The back wall routes will never be the most popular in the quarry because they are harder than those on other walls and take more drainage.
3. Some of the pegs are probably pretty manky (e.g. on Hobson's Choice), others have been recently replaced and are in good nick (e.g. the lower peg on Eastern Touch).
4. There is already an adequate number of stakes at the top of the back wall if you look for them, but I suppose one or two more wouldn't hurt.
5. The existing bolts at the top of the main wall/dragon's wall should be left alone. They look fine to me and, given that ethics have moved on, it would IMO be hard to justify the placing of new, replacement bolts.
6. The most beneficial single thing that can be done at the clean-up is simply to remove all the broken glass.
7. Although I am not sure I agree with everything that has been proposed, kudos to eddzzz for making the effort to organise this, and apologies in advance that I can't make it to help out.
Cheers, Luke H.
p.s. Dan - text me your number cos I've lost it!
My tuppence worth as a Hobby regular ...
1. There is no need for bolt lower offs. Dan has clarified that he wasn't suggesting this.
2. The back wall routes will never be the most popular in the quarry because they are harder than those on other walls and take more drainage.
3. Some of the pegs are probably pretty manky (e.g. on Hobson's Choice), others have been recently replaced and are in good nick (e.g. the lower peg on Eastern Touch).
4. There is already an adequate number of stakes at the top of the back wall if you look for them, but I suppose one or two more wouldn't hurt.
5. The existing bolts at the top of the main wall/dragon's wall should be left alone. They look fine to me and, given that ethics have moved on, it would IMO be hard to justify the placing of new, replacement bolts.
6. The most beneficial single thing that can be done at the clean-up is simply to remove all the broken glass.
7. Although I am not sure I agree with everything that has been proposed, kudos to eddzzz for making the effort to organise this, and apologies in advance that I can't make it to help out.
Cheers, Luke H.
p.s. Dan - text me your number cos I've lost it!
In reply to kingholmesy:
1) I'm in with the general vote - I'm more than happy to set up my top rope on the back wall. I think they would be useless.
2) Agreed
3) Having a look at pegs most should be OK though. When we (Chris, Paul and myself) had a look at the back wall there were 4/5 pegs we could spot.
4) Have a look at the picture above. The galvanised stakes will probably be OK, however there are stakes that have been there for years and may have undergone a lot of corrosion underneath in the ground. Hence why we will remove one and examine it. If that is ok then so be it. If not then we will work with the BMC and get new stakes to replace the old ones.
5) Bolts - When bolts have been there in excess of 20 years. How do you know they are "bomber"? I've seen people belaying from just one of them. Just because the look ok above the ground, doesn't mean they are ok below ground. Hence why we may take one of the not so useful ones out and examine. Again we can work with the BMC to receive replacements/ find other methods of protection.
6) Thats what we will be doing and cleaning the grass from routes and the floor.
7) What else don't you agree with?
Thanks a lot. There are some serious safety issues here regarding the stakes and bolts at the top. I would prefer new stakes in and old stakes/ bolts out just for the safety of people there.
Pitty you can't make it. Could you meet Saturday evening?
1) I'm in with the general vote - I'm more than happy to set up my top rope on the back wall. I think they would be useless.
2) Agreed
3) Having a look at pegs most should be OK though. When we (Chris, Paul and myself) had a look at the back wall there were 4/5 pegs we could spot.
4) Have a look at the picture above. The galvanised stakes will probably be OK, however there are stakes that have been there for years and may have undergone a lot of corrosion underneath in the ground. Hence why we will remove one and examine it. If that is ok then so be it. If not then we will work with the BMC and get new stakes to replace the old ones.
5) Bolts - When bolts have been there in excess of 20 years. How do you know they are "bomber"? I've seen people belaying from just one of them. Just because the look ok above the ground, doesn't mean they are ok below ground. Hence why we may take one of the not so useful ones out and examine. Again we can work with the BMC to receive replacements/ find other methods of protection.
6) Thats what we will be doing and cleaning the grass from routes and the floor.
7) What else don't you agree with?
Thanks a lot. There are some serious safety issues here regarding the stakes and bolts at the top. I would prefer new stakes in and old stakes/ bolts out just for the safety of people there.
Pitty you can't make it. Could you meet Saturday evening?
In reply to eddzzz:
I agree with most of what you've suggested.
My main quibble is in relation to the replacement of the old bolts. I don't think it's necessary, especially given the existence of stakes near the same part of the top of the quarry. Furthermore, I don't think it sets a good precedent to place new bolts at (an albeit quarried) grit crag, even on a like for like basis. Even if new ones were placed then it wouldn't be a good idea to belay from a single bolt, so this doesn't swing the argument.
I'm tied up this weekend but promise I will take some extra rubbish home with me next time I'm there!
Cheers again for your efforts.
Luke.
I agree with most of what you've suggested.
My main quibble is in relation to the replacement of the old bolts. I don't think it's necessary, especially given the existence of stakes near the same part of the top of the quarry. Furthermore, I don't think it sets a good precedent to place new bolts at (an albeit quarried) grit crag, even on a like for like basis. Even if new ones were placed then it wouldn't be a good idea to belay from a single bolt, so this doesn't swing the argument.
I'm tied up this weekend but promise I will take some extra rubbish home with me next time I'm there!
Cheers again for your efforts.
Luke.
In reply to eddzzz:
be aware if you plan to replace any stakes that the soil is only about 12/18inches deep before you hit rock. It's quite possible that you remove a stake and then cannot get a new one in...
If I can make it (still not sure) then I'm more than happy to sit on a rope and have a look at pegs and stuff, some are sollid but some certainly are not!
be aware if you plan to replace any stakes that the soil is only about 12/18inches deep before you hit rock. It's quite possible that you remove a stake and then cannot get a new one in...
If I can make it (still not sure) then I'm more than happy to sit on a rope and have a look at pegs and stuff, some are sollid but some certainly are not!
In reply to eddzzz:
Ed
What time are you popping up Saturday night? I might be able to pop up for half and hour and will see you at 10:00 on Sunday.
Ed
What time are you popping up Saturday night? I might be able to pop up for half and hour and will see you at 10:00 on Sunday.
In reply to kingholmesy: Luke,
Maybe its an issue for us lot who climb at Hobson Moor to discuss and get a general consensus.
Cheers for the help
Maybe its an issue for us lot who climb at Hobson Moor to discuss and get a general consensus.
Cheers for the help
In reply to Dan Lane: The stakes will be replaced/ more stakes added fter the clean up. I think it would be a good idea to put stakes in before we take old ones out, just to prevent the issue of not finding a suitable place for new ones to go.
If you could make it it would be great. If you can spare an hour tomorrow night then I'll be there and possibly cmgcmg.
If you could make it it would be great. If you can spare an hour tomorrow night then I'll be there and possibly cmgcmg.
In reply to cmgcmg: I'll get there about half 4 on Saturday. Sunday's weather is extremely bad, windy and rainy so want to get a bit done tomorrow where its dry generally a lot nicer to do. I'll still be there Sunday though. Anyone else in with meeting tomorrow at lets say half 4 tomorrow?
In reply to eddzzz: you guys definitely coming tomorrow? Cleaned a route. a diff and bagged up 6 bags.
In reply to eddzzz: I'll be there for a few hours throughout next week. We have good weather for once!
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