UKC

Apparently the National Park have taken over the United Utilities car park at Castle Rock and are dishing out parking tickets (and these are a proper statutory authority ticket which could land you up in court if you don't pay). They have also installed a ticket machine on the tiny triangle of land under Raven Crag.

Cars have been ticketed so beware!

In reply to Stephen Reid: This also applies to all the carparks on the far side of the lake (the old Wythburn Road ) and the car park at Thirlspot / Swirls .

In reply to Stephen Reid:

This is a disgraceful insult to local people, expensive too, £4.50 for a few hours parking. Puts them in the same totalitarian ranks as the cash-grabbing self-serving National Trust, Cumbria County Council and Highways. LDNPA is a morally bankrupt and self-serving bureaucracy run by outsiders, especially the celebrity status cycling mountain-biking climbing Mr Leafe of Nottingham. Locals should refuse to pay, this was open common land historically and free at the point of access. My Great-Grandmother was baptised in this valley 150 years ago. It is time to revolt against this maltreatment of indigenous aboriginal people of the Lake District. Why should locals pay! My last ticket never lead to anything. As a UU shareholder, I will write to the CEO. The BMC should be pressed to strike a "free parking" for local born and bred Cumberland people, especially those who climb at Castle Rock or anywhere else in that valley.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I know. Parking in the Lakes is in a pretty dire state.

I presume the National Park are being forced into such measure as a result of government spending cuts.

At least The National Trust can't take you to court.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Why should local climbers get free parking but not anyone else, and why on earth would the BMC get involved in a locals-only campaign? I'd much rather they campaigned against parking charges in general. I'd happily support free-parking for locals if we were talking about access to the local post office or doctors, but we are talking about leisure activities. Equally I would definitely support a season ticket as is seen in other areas.

In reply to Monk:

What I'd like to see is a season ticket that covers all the big parking operators in the Lakes (ie Forestry, NT, LDNP, etc), rather than me having to buy lots of different memberships, or thinking too hard about which car parks I currently have a ticket for. Which would probably be of most interest to "locals", but not limited to them.

Mind you, having looked on LDNP website and seen what they want for an annual pass for their car parks alone, I'm not sure anyone would pay.....

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

If you came to Cambridge where I live, you will find that 'locals' have to pay just as much for parking for their leisure activities as anyone else. Why is Cumbria different ?

In reply to GrahamD:

low incomes?

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

the only bit of your rant I agree with
When charges are reasonable I happily pay them. When they are unreasonable, I happily spend my time trying to find a way of avoiding them

In reply to wercat: You know what the say about assumptions. Plenty of rich folk in the lakes. Plenty of poor people in Cambridge.

In reply to wercat:

We are only talking about folk who can afford to run a car here.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Nominate for Barely Coherent Rant of the Week.

Bonus points for describing Cumbria County Council as "totalitarian".

In reply to toad:
I'm making the assumption that it is easier to survive in Cambridge without a car than in Cumbria, given that one is an apple and the other a fruitbasket

In reply to Monk: It is a matter of principle - not about money. Those of us who grew up in the area and spent time as kids spending nothing more than the cost of an ice cream, with our folks, playing in streams, parking on the commons (e.g. Lanthet green below Grassmoor) - halcyon innocent days where kids enjoyed the Lakes free at the point of use and benefitted as a result.

At present a young local couple can not afford to take their inexpensive second hand car and their kids and enjoy the outdoors free at the point of use, and that is a moral disgrace.

The Lake Disrict has been abused, turned into a cash flow generator and sold to the highest bidder, courtesy of the derelict LDNPA.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

But it's not just a locals' issue. I had the same halcyon days in the lakes, despite living 200 miles away. My rich friends were off to Spain or France; we stayed in the UK. The vast majority of folk outside the Lake District are not exactly living like the toffs you seem to believe they are.

Take your penultimate sentence for example "At present a young local couple can not afford to take their inexpensive second hand car and their kids and enjoy the outdoors free at the point of use, and that is a moral disgrace." Take out the word 'local' and I totally agree with you. The Lake District is a National Park, and should be there for the benefit of the Nation.

In reply to Dave Cumberland: I'm still not convinced your first post wasn't a finely crafted troll. I think it would do you some good to re-read the Beacon of Hope threads before you go too much further down this line.

In reply to Ramblin dave:


That only applies to Thirlmere.

In Borrowdale, CCC would be a Praying Mantis.

In reply to wercat:

Very few people need to visit Thirlmere in order to survive - local or not

In reply to Dave Cumberland:


I'm impressed if you can really get inexpensive tyres, fuel, insurance and MOTs in Cumbria. But lucky you if you can.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Parking at Lanthwaithe Green was still free last time I looked. Too far from the m6 to make much profit, I suspect.

Sad lack of ice-cream van, though.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Out of curiosity, what kind of cars did your Great Grandmother and her chums drive? The inexpensive second hand type, or the type that hadn't been properly invented then? Indeed, I’m sure your ancestors will have happily explored the countryside without a car.

Today, I'm sure those people (local or not) intent on exploring Cumbria will pay for the privilege where necessary, or find a way to not have to park in these car parks. Walking and cycling are other radical suggestions. Should they genuinely not have enough money, small savings in other areas could be an option.

Whether we all think it's right or not, I'd argue £4:50 for a family of four (for example) to spend time in such a beautiful part of the world, relative to other daily expenses, is pretty good value.

In the meantime, whilst you're not getting masses of support here, give the Wezzie Gezzie a call, they'll love your vitriol.

In reply to Stephen Reid:
I always manage to find somewhere to park for free, but sympathise with those who don't.
The LDNPA are not helping the local economy. For instance, a lot of people have a finite amount of spare cash to spend. If they find themselves forking out up to £8 (which it is in a lot of places in the Lakes) for a days parking, then they might not buy that ice cream, pint, or brew on arrival back at the car. i.e., they will not be putting as much into the local economy, unless you count the LDNPA coffers as such. I wonder how much their fat cats are creaming off.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

When the Pay and Display machines fist appeared at Stanage, didn't some community minded soul araldite coins into the slot?

Currently there is alternate free parking available but for how long?

In reply to Removed User:

Good idea of what their fat cats are getting is in their budget papers for next year - page 12 ish

http://www.lakedistrict.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/226083/2012_03_2...

In reply to 3leggeddog:

Any idea how to do this?!

In reply to Captain Gear:

Erm... Coat coins in araldite and push in slot! Just a thought like

In reply to 3leggeddog:
Frequent acts of vandalism forced the PDNPA to install cameras, further reducing their income at a time when the govt was slashing their grants.

Maybe we should abolish national parks altogether, scrap the planning restrictions and allow the building of massive car parks. All hail to the motor car!

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

So you don't think the revenue will be well spent helping to manage the LDNP then?

In reply to Bulls Crack:

More likely to get spent on constructing inappropriately large paths through the hills

In reply to butteredfrog:

Couple of twigs in the slot is enough to block it but not cause damage.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:
>

Hear, hear!... Maybe locals should be exempt from the charges if they are able to prove their indigenous aboriginal status by gurning, sweating mint cake out of their pores or - if it comes right down to it - Cumberland wrestling the parking attendant to the floor?

In reply to Toreador:

Footpath restoration/erosion control you mean?

In reply to Bulls Crac
There's footpath restoration/erosion control, and there's this monstrosity on Sail:-

http://www.leaney.org/lake_district_walk_photo.php?walk_id=955&photo=20...

In reply to Chris the Tall: There is a very detailed and considered debate to be had about this and many on this thread do not understand the local situation, what is happening, and the implications.

The derelict cash-focussed LDNPA is changing the character of Cumberland and Westmorland and parts of North Lancashire. Changing it forever - the character will be gone. The paths are a classic and devastatingly destructive example, when only clever drainage is needed. The parking is a second big issue for local people - it is marginalising them and barring them from the area.

There could not be a worse managed National park, doing irreperable long-term damage. The current CEO is a liability and totally misguided.

In reply to Bulls Crack:

No, I mean vandalism of the sort in the link posted by ITS. Sadly this is far from an isolated example.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I'm not convinced this is the forum for your political rant (can't think of another word for it) since you think that many don't understand what you're on about.

In reply to Stephen Reid:

Same in Bowderstone car park now over £6 used to be much less ! ? cant see any change at all other than someone thought i know lets take the piss !

Best plan from a tourist point of veiw is just Dont go the Lakes anymore ! Simple

In reply to Stephen Reid: Head of National Park had a good bit in the W Gazette last week about trying to get people out of their cars. They are making some progress including buses that can carry 12 bikes.

In reply to Stephen Reid:
The Sticklebarn car park <new dunny ghyll/white ghyll/gimmer etc> is now £6.50 for the day. However, I notice that the NT membership for young persons of 13 to 25 years old is £18.75 and that page says that EVERY member get free parking....

In reply to Stephen Reid:

In Sussex at all the car-parks of the Firehills countryside park they have installed parking ticket machines in places where people have parked for free since the year dot. It seems to be the brave new world that Hastings Council is preparing for us all. It's very hard to even park elsewhere and walk to the park as the roads are quite narrow and parking is banned, as well as being dangerous. It is a pleasant walk along the top of the sandstone sea cliffs and a favorite dog walking spot.

The only answer I can see is a Luddite one, smash the machines, but there are probably cameras to prevent this

In reply to Bruce Hooker: Sounds like nice roads down there for cycling along. Not much to be gained by driving given the cost of petrol as well as the charges.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

Dont smash the machines or the cameras , just dont go there anymore/ if nobody puts any money in they wont be getting any money out !! not to annoy you anymore but YOU paid for the machines with your tax's so if you smash them up you'll just have to pay for more !

In reply to blanchie14c: Dont join the NT whatever you do , all they do is go round buying crags so they can ban climbing on them , they even try to ban climbing on crags they dont own !! like everything in this country, Its all a money making scam !

In reply to ste53:

Err, examples please - especially ones that have been done without an environmental/legal reason.

If you want to change the NT then join and change them from the inside - it's what the hunting lobby did with the countryside alliance.

ALC

In reply to ste53:

That sounds like a plan when enough people have stopped going I'll happily pay the parking fees to enjoy nice peaceful fells

In reply to ste53:

Yeah I know, Like Brimham, Crag Lough, Peel Crag, The Bowderstone ...

Dimwit.

In reply to Stephen Reid: I really don't know why people fuss about paying for parking in the Lake District. I have lived and worked in the Lakes for 30 years and have no problem finding alternative places to park to the maintained car parks. For example the cited United Utilities car park at Legburthwaite (Castle Rock) has ample free parking 300m level walk away.

I am a member of the National Trust as I make considerable use of their land each year and think it is only right and proper to join the organisation and make a financial contribution to the valuable work that they do to enable us to have access to the countryside. The free car parking is an added bonus.

Many of the high cost car parks in the Lakes are in honeypot locations and it is to be expected that their owners should seek revenue to maintain these car parks and other facilities they provide.

With a little imagination and the use of a map great walks and climbs can be enjoyed without dipping into your pocket.

In reply to JDal: Dimwit hay ! Brimham , The Bowderstone yeah mate £6.50 to park , they arn't daft ! But you are ! it's the crag's with no car parks that they close, idiot !

In reply to ste53:

Come on then, name them.

ALC

In reply to Stephen Reid:

Regardless of whether you support car parking charges or not they are having a serious effect on the incomes of local businesses.

Since being "forced" to pay such charges (buses in some areas of the N/Pennines where I live only run once a week so public transport is out of the question for me) I have totally stopped spending in Keswick for example. Instead we go to areas outside the Lakes where parking is free. When we do go to the Lakes it is a case of no more meals, a cup of tea, or a few pints with friends after a day on the hill. No more wandering around gear shops and buying kit (I use the web so the likes of Cotswold, Fishers etc get nowt cos they are far to expensive on the web).

This isn't just my opinion either I know dozens of folk who have really reigned in their spending in the Lakes as a result of extortionate parking charges.

At the end of the day why on earth would I pay up to £8.00 quid to park to walk or climb for the day plus at least £3.00 to visit Keswick. If you want to know who is destroying local economies look no further than the National Trust, National Parks and local councils. It is one thing paying a couple of quid for the upkeep of a car park and quite another to be paying for access to out natural heritage which is what is happening. Still if you don't want it to go on, get off your backsides and do something about it, put together a campaign, name and shame the organisations and put some pressure on them to stop destroying local economies in order to line the pockets of the bean counters. The BMC and local businesses could get together and fight such high charges. On the other hand we can do what the well off in our society always do and ignore it with the "I'm all right jack sod you" which seems to be the norm nowadays.

Hammy - the National Trust to not provide access to the countryside, it is our right so don't be fooled into thinking otherwise.

In reply to Davidtog:

Keswick certainly appears to be booming despite the car parking charges. Been there a few times over the past 18 months and surprised at the bijou eateries and bespoke gear shops that have sprouted up. Never seen it so busy.

D

In reply to Davidtog: The consumerist society needs to be reigned back in. If the big outlets go, more room for the independants. Big beamers driving into Ambleside to spend their money in the gear shops aren't at the top of my shopping list.

In reply to ste53:

Do you have some examples of which crags the NT have banned climbing on?

In reply to Dauphin:

If that is true how come only a few weeks ago there was a programme on BBC Look North where businesses in Keswick were complaining at how quiet it was. Several businesses were blaming the high cost of fuel coupled with less spending once people arrived. Booming was certainly not mentioned. Equally as I said I know plenty of people who are going elsewhere, just because it is not obvious does not mean it is not happening.

Further afield in a major town (Darlington) for example there are calls to scrap car parking charges at weekends within the town because people are staying away or not spending. Wake up to the facts car parking charges across the country do harm local economies

In reply to Phil1919:

It does not matter whether they are big businesses or not they are all a part of a consumerist society. Big beamers driving into Ambleside to spend their money in gear shops aren't at the top of my shopping list either, but getting rid of big outlets was not my point I was simply using them as an example of where my friends and I don't spend money which includes some of the smaller places as well I simply mentioned the larger outlets as an example.

In reply to Davidtog: When I mean big business in the context of a town, I mean the likes of Asda and Tesco. I would put market stalls at the other end of the scale. We need more of the latter and less of the former. Keswick has Booths of course, which is a good example of a smaller supermarket. Consumerism has proffit as its bottom line against all else. We are beginning to realise that doesn't work.

In reply to Davidtog:

I think you are conflating two separate issues - town centres are dying across the U.K. because of all kinds of competition - internet, malls, out of town shopping & the credit crunch; & the cost of travelling to and using the national park / open areas of the countryside is now becoming prohibitive largely as the price of fuel increases and the value of sterling decreases.

As mentioned by others in the thread this doesn't seem to have decreased the Audi/ BMW estate drivers heading to Ambleside/ Keswick to stock up on Hagloffs & Arcteryx and vanilla lattes.

D

In reply to Phil1919:

How do you get there then? There aren't any buses, and doggies can't be taken on a bike, especially by the OAP's who take them. It's just an extra tax, and one that discourages people from a particularly healthy activity... Reserving this for the rich is ironic, especially given the political colour of the council concerned.

I really don't believe that people choose to avoid Keswick or anywhere else for that matter because of parking charges.

I park in Keswick pretty much every day and have done for best part of three years and never ever pay for parking. There is ample free parking even on busy days so long as you are prepared to look for it and walk a couple of hundred metres.

If you have no imagination and park in the first place you see with a big blue P then of course you will pay for the privilege and rightly so - it belongs to somebody who built it and wants to make a return on their investment.

So...join the National Trust and enjoy free parking in some very handy places while putting something back into the environment, apply some common sense to your other Lakeland parking requirements and stop complaining!

In reply to Hammy:

Well you'd be wrong.

In reply to Toreador: Re all the previous posts. There is considerable ignorance about The Lake District. Businesses in Keswick are at least one third down in general due to the post-2008 recession, parking charges, fuel tax, business rate extortion, NPA, Highways and Council authoritarianism etc etc. It is worse than totalitarian China. The legators to the National Trust and the National Park would be turning in their graves if they could see how their bequests are being managed for cash flow generation instead of access for all free at the point of use. Canon Rawnsley, Wordsworth, Southey, all they campaigned for has been destroyed in the interests of cash flow, bureaucratic empowerment and totalitarian control. There is no democracy. The National Park Authority and the misguided Mr Leafe are ruining the area for ever with their offensive paths and staircases, see the new one on Helm Crag (Lion and the Lamb to the locals) - an utter disgrace. It was never possible to see any path on this hillside and now it can be seen from space. Main point is that the local young can not afford to spend time in the National park they were born in. Meanwhile Mr Leafe worries about Carbon release from peat - an astonishingly irrelevant and minute needle in a massive haystack of more pressing problems.

It is a matter of principle that parking for local people should be free in their home area, it is not the cost.

The National Park Authority should be abolished, the Councils, Highways and National Trust should be controlled because right now they are a malevolent totalitarian dictatorship and a disgrace to the people who set up the National Park. Local people must take control - there lies the difficulty, it is a closed shop for the nose in the trough parasites.

I've stopped going to to the Lakes at weekends not because of parking charges (though they are notable compared to other outdoors areas) but because of trying to find a night's accommodation. I'll never forget that I continued to support the Lakes community during foot and mouth by going up despite very limited activities and shortly after it finished the B&B's and hotels went back to a 2 night minimum policy at weekends. I wouldn't object to it if I could actually get there on a Friday night at a reasonable time but I can't (like many people I know) so I would like to go early on Sat and stay that night only. I can appreciate the business owners perspective (and market forces) but I don't think they appreciate mine. Instead I spend my money in N Wales and elsewhere. I do still go up if I am renting a cottage for a week but I very rarely do weekends now. Shame really. I do find this compounds my sense that the Lakes is a bit of a rip off for over-charging in many areas.

This seems a thread for rants so thought I would add mine...

In reply to Stephen Reid:

What about places like Hardknott Roman Fort, do you have to pay to park there now?

In reply to Dave Cumberland:
..
What, like in all the major cities and towns??

In reply to JDal: Just park on the road opposite the farms 30 yrds on from the car park. Not in anyones way and no enforcable restrictions. Rock on with beer money in your pocket to put more directly back into the local economy (ignoring the excesive taxation of beer of course)

In reply to Dave Cumberland:


Total bollocks. Parking in their home area never has been for the majority of the population. Also parking charges do not alter the fact that hills still are free at the point of access.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

I suspect you've now lost what little support you had

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Like when they gave you small pox infected doss bags for the trail of tears to Whitehaven

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

You've not been to Doncaster have you ?

In reply to Captain Gear:

Correct.

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

The term 'local' particularly in a tiny country like ours has always perplexed me, what is the definition? And why should local people be given more rights than non-locals?

In reply to Dave Cumberland: I'm not renewing my NT membership this year because I have become aware of the way that outfit is being run and the sort of people they are employing. I've heard about "developments" afoot to commercialise the National Trust. Their priority seems to be profit over conservation at the moment. It didnt come as much of a surprise to hear that they employed an ex-NCP Carparks bigwig into a top regional post a couple of years ago. Wow, I'm sure his CV was awash with amazing conservation work.

I think the majority of NT members would be astounded at what the NT has become if they knew.

So find a free spot, park and bike to your crag!

In reply to Martymo:
Their priority seems to be profit over conservation at the moment.

How does that square with them being a charity? Who does the profit go to?

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft:

Any "profit" should be going to further their charitable purpose - presumably, in the case of the NT, buying new historic property/land, or maintenance & improvement of existing assets. They certainly shouldn't be able to cream it off to any significant extent. Accounts might well be on their website, or Charity Commission's?

But, I agree, they appear to have little interest in improving responsible access to their land. I've been chucked off camping on NT land on a couple of occasions (above the intake, so generally accepted) and have given the poor chap who keeps trying to sell me membership in Buttermere an earful about it a few times.

In reply to Carolyn: That's my point, they are a charity, they are not able to make a profit. Excess funds go back into the NT to fund their conservation activities. Others above have been suggesting otherwise!

In reply to Carolyn:

Out of interest, where about's where you chucked off?

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft: All I can say is what I've heard from people who work for the NT. The emphasis is on getting money in and developing what they have. I think their commercial mood is reflected in the people they are choosing to employ. Are you getting where I am going with this?

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft: Some amazing hysteria and bizarre views here. Free parking for locals as "principal"!?

The NT are a bit aggressive with membership and charges, and have a tendency towards tweeness, but if you look around the Lakes and elsewhere their contribution to maintaining the landscape in a massively over-used part of the country is pretty clear.

In reply to Martymo:

Rather than... letting it decay?

Are you getting where I am going with this?

No. Did you vote when a member?

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft: I'd love all the money to go for conservation work, but I'm hearing about a change in game plan. I guess we will see with time.

In reply to MG: Note subtle difference between the words "Developing", "maintaining" and "decaying".

In reply to MG: No I didnt vote.....I kept my money in my own pocket. I find it speaks far more than a tick in a box.

In reply to MG:

No not really, and I wish you would spell it out!

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft:

That bit wasn't me - it should have been grey.

In reply to MG: Don't you just love the internet!

In reply to Martymo:
Are you getting where I am going with this?

No not really, and I wish you would spell it out!

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft: Sorry, probably a bad choice of terminology. My concern is with NT's choice of upper management. Is a hard nosed NCP carpark businessman a likely choice for essentially a conservation organisation?

In reply to various: I am most disappointed to see that some people still cling to the outdated notions that because an organisation is a 'charity' or 'not for profit' it somehow can't be an insidious, corrupt, profiteering cabal being run for the sole benefit of enriching (either in terms of money or influence) the individuals connected to it.

In my experience that description applies, at least in part, to a significant proportion of those charities that have paid staff and paid managers or chief executives. In fact, I would go as far as to say that I now assume (until convinced otherwise) that newly established 'not for profit' organisations are designed with the main aim of diverting extra money towards the pockets of those managing them.

It is simple:
Not for profit = More money for managers salaries

I like dealing with businesses, you know where you stand with them - they maintain a fine balancing act of trying to persuade you to buy product/services at the highest price they can, but are at least completely up front that they need to cover costs and maintain a profit margin. Also, if you don't like the product or service, 99% of the time you can go elsewhere and most businesses realise that and have at least some ethos of customer service.

Charities and non-profit organisations on the other hand can be a bloody nightmare. Their PAID staff are often rude, condescending and use their impregnable 'charitable' or 'non-profit' status to excuse all manner of incompetence, as just happened on Tuesday when I was dealing with a paid office manager for a national youth charity!

I don't necessarily hold with all the criticisms made of the National Trust on this thread but I would say that their actions and motivations (and those of other large charities) should be subject to the same level of skepticism, scrutiny and debate that is normally reserved for politicians and political parties.

In reply to Martymo:

I can assure you, there are people running some of our cuddliest charities who would make Rachman look like Brian Cant.

I don't see what the problem is regarding the NT. As an owner of property and land it is one of the largest inthe uk and the operating costs are enormous. It has to work hard to generate revenue just to meet it's operating costs.

I am not saying it has to operate on a rapacious basis, but it needs to be run on a commercial basis. you cannot give the management of an operation generating £412m p.a. to a board with little or no commercial acumen or experience. It may take someone with a hard nose to make tough decisions, if the conservation is to continue.

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft:

Once in Snowdownia, on the Carnedd side of Ogwen Valley, other time from Gillercombe in Lakes. From what I remember, anyhow. Both were a few years back now.

In reply to Martymo:

I couldn't comment on the particular person as I don't know their credentials. The NT has a board of trusties to guide policy; under that I would expect managers to manage and to have top quality experience in their given field. Therefore if his experience is managing a national car park network then he seems to me like the right person?

In reply to John Rushby: Very good point, well made! I reckon you're probably right. I guess only time will tell.

In reply to Stephen Reid:

Back to the original point. Anyone know if NP got planning permission for their new parking meter? I believe they've neglected to do so in the past (even though it they effectively have to apply to themselves) and that's opened them up to challenge...

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft:
The NT has a board of trusties to guide policy;

Just like the LDNPA....oh we seem to have come full circle.

In reply to Martymo: Out of interest, who would prefer to own the NT's Lake District estate?

In reply to Martymo:

Not sure how. The NT is a charity, whilst the LDNP is a government agency. Two different things?

In reply to MG:

I dont know who would prefer to own it.

I'd prefer the NT owned it, and I would like them to stick to the main objective being conservation rather than development....that is all.

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft:

Well more similar than you might think....."National Park Authorities have between 10 and 30 Members and one Chairman who represents them. The members take advice from staff and make decisions about what the National Park Authority should do. Members do not work for the National Park Authority full time, and do not get paid.

Most of the members come from local and parish councils within the National Park. Some members are appointed by government because they have specialist knowledge and experience in areas like the environment or rural communities. Members normally live in or very close to the National Park so they are local people."[NPA]

In reply to MG:

>> Therein lies part of the problem. We Cumbrians really believe that we own it.

In reply to mockerkin:

MG has a good point though. I'd prefer the NT owned the land rather than any one else.

In reply to Martymo:

I left the NT because of their policy in Snowdonia, which appeared to be akin to the Highland Clearances and the megalomaniac project for digging tunnels under Stone Henge, effectively hiding the monument from travellers for the first time in thousands of years... they do seem to follow odd policies sometimes. Suggesting an individual vote would change anything is not serious, even to know who was who and what the candidates really stood for is beyond the average members possibilities.

It's a nuisance though as I'd like to rejoin as we've seen all the English Heritage sites in our area so many times of late that a change would be nice.

In reply to Bruce Hooker:

What was this? Not suggesting that they never do anything wrong, just that I don't specifically remember forced evictions, burnt villages and mass deaths in North Wales...

In reply to Ramblin dave:

You obviously never tried to get served after time at The Heights :P

In reply to Stephen Reid:

Join the NT as a Young Person through Topcashback and pay by direct debit. This costs exactly £15 (18.75-20% cashback). You get your parking permit and can park for free. Saved me a fortune in the Lakes last year (maybe £200??). If you are lucky enough to be actually under 25 you can also get free entry to NT properties.

In reply to Toccata:

Better plan , just dont go to NT properties , Dont go to the Lake district and go enjoy some land that is still free !!! No human owns the land , they just think they do !!!

In reply to ste53:

The Lake District is still free.

In reply to ste53: ste53:

Do you have some examples of which crags the NT have banned climbing on?

Any news on which crags the NT have banned climbing? Seems ages since I asked the question or had you forgotten?

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft: Why dont you ring them up and ask them your self , they love climbers ! you can prove me wrong or hear it from the horses mouth! Watch out , some of the crags they DONT own just have signs telling you they do!
To be fair some of the crags they DONT own only have signs saying
"All activitys must be pre booked " Even if the crag is on common land !

In reply to ste53:

Come on then, name them!

ALC

In reply to ste53:

Just put up or shut up will you ? to most on here people you are making daft and unsubstantiated accusations.

In reply to ste53:

Can you tell me which crags are affected this way? I'd like to write a stiffly worded letter of complaint to the NT and to the LDNPA about this lack of access, but am currently lacking some key information.

In reply to GrahamD: He hasn't got a profile so you can only go by his posts.

I think this is him: http://www.beezodogsplace.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/alfred-3.gif

In reply to JDal:

Like ! but I'd imagined more spots and a bigger chip than that.

The amount of insubstantiated and ill-informed guff in this particular exchange of views is quite extraordinary!

In reply to ste53: The general idea in a debate is if you make a claim you can back it up, otherwise people tend to think your claim is unsubstantiated.

In reply to Removed UserJeremy Ashcroft:

However, the flip side is that there are plenty of ineffective/inept/worse boards of trustees out there, often meaning staff have more power. You and I have described what trustees are supposed to do, but it doesn't mean it always happens. Even so, the scope for staff making massive profits is basically limited to getting rather inflated salaries and comfortable expenses. Scope for serious personal profit isn't all that high, though it's easy enough for a charity to veer well away from its stated purpose. "Mission drift", unless someone's invented a new buzz word....

I have no knowledge of how effective the NT governance is, BTW, just generalising!

In reply to Carolyn: The NT are completely open, if you are interested its all online, annual reports, trustees etc

In reply to JDal: Do you want to meet up and i'll tell you all about it ?

In reply to GrahamD: Like i have already said , ring them up and ask them !? either you cant read or your to lazy ! you obviously dont belive me so just phone them up and speak to the horse ! It is you that is making daft and unsubstanitiated accusations !

In reply to ste53:

How about you answering the question: which crags have the NT banned access to?

You've been asked several times on this thread but so far have been unable to provide a single instance.

ALC

In reply to GrahamD: I'd could guess what you look like or try to insult you but thats not what this site is for , like i say if you want to insult me why dont we meet up and you can insult me to my face ?

In reply to a lakeland climber: I have told you several time's to phone them up and hear it for yourself - like i have myself ! If you cant be arsed then why are you so bothered ?
Also do you not want to personally insult me or comment on my spelling ? or are you just bothered about NT trying to ban climbing at crags they dont own ? if so phone them up !

In reply to Dave Cumberland:

Well said , its all about them not us !

In reply to ste53:

I haven't insulted or commented on your spelling at all. You are making the claims so back them up - it is not for others to do so.

ALC

In reply to a lakeland climber: Im not saying you have im saying im surprized you do not want to ??? Others blantently did not want to belive the truth ! They just want to call me a liar !

In reply to ste53:

Noone has called you a liar. Just asked you to put up or shut up.