/ 5.10 Anasazi VCS, painfulness

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Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
I have purchased a pair of 5.10 Anasazi VCS the same size as my Sportiva Katanas. They are a ½ size smaller than my street shoes size. Now, I realise that I should have gone a full UK size down after reading previous threads. Too late!

My katanas were tight when new but not really painful unless I walked around in them for too long, now pretty comfy. I tried my Anasazis last night, good god they hurt, a lot, toes curled right up. Are these destined for sale immediately or should give them chance, will they bag somewhat and break in? I realise this may have been debated before but would really appreciate any advice.
mkean - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:
Imagine the Katanas are the Greek debt, now in comparison Anasazis are a bit like Norway. If they really hurt now then chances are they'll never get really comfy! They are a different shape to the Katanas and a lot less stretchy.
galpinos - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:

My velcros are 1 to 1.5 sizes smaller than my street shoes and buy then end of my first session in them, they fit like a glove. Persevere for a bit but they sound like they might not fit your feet?
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva: So if it feels painful to stand on my big toes it's not a good sign. I think I may give them 1 or 2 more sessions and hope they shape a bit. It's annoying and off putting when trying to edge
SGD - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva: I have Katanas and VCS's but I size them differently. The Katanas are 1/2 size smaller than the VCS's. I don't think I could wear a pair of VCS's in the same size as a Katanas, bearing in mind that I like my toes bunched....
cha1n on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:

If you can't wear the VCS 0.5 size down from your street shoe, then it sounds like they don't fit your feet (I can go 1-1.5 sizes down).

Why didn't you buy another pair of Katanas if they fit well? They are similar performers to the VCS in my opinion.
cha1n on 23 May 2012
In reply to cha1n:

Hold on, you had Katanas 0.5 sizes down from your street size aswell? You either have a low pain tolerance or strange feet because I don't know anyone (myself included) who don't wear Sportiva shoes at least 2 sizes down from their street shoe..
Charlie Noakes - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:

In my experience, 1 size down from your street shoe size gives a good tight fit, yet comfortable after break in period (probably around 4-5 sessions at the wall... could be longer, can't quite remember!).

However five ten are also renowned for their inconsistent sizing, even within the same model. Saying this, the 2 pairs I've had have both been fine.
mkean - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:
To give you an idea of 5.10 sizing I can comfortably wear 1.5 sizes below my street shoe size straight out of the box.
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to cha1n: Just trying out different shoes really, see what the fuss is about. I will get another pair, or resole
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to cha1n:
> (In reply to cha1n)
>
> Hold on, you had Katanas 0.5 sizes down from your street size aswell? You either have a low pain tolerance or strange feet because I don't know anyone (myself included) who don't wear Sportiva shoes at least 2 sizes down from their street shoe..

This is why I mentioned it. I'm experimenting with what is best for performance. The VCS are my 3rd pair of shoes, each one a little smaller than the last. I wear size 12 street shoe but think I'm really 12.5 but struggle with shoes that size.

I asked the q to gauge what everyone else thinks, I really don't know what is normal pain for new shoes but I do know my tighter La Sportivas shoes were a whole world better.

As for pain threshold I snowboarded for 5 days with a seperated shoulder joint that happened on the first day... although, that didn't really hurt so didn't need to man up too much.
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to SGD:
> (In reply to Lukeva) I have Katanas and VCS's but I size them differently. The Katanas are 1/2 size smaller than the VCS's. I don't think I could wear a pair of VCS's in the same size as a Katanas, bearing in mind that I like my toes bunched....

Uh oh, but don't know if my Katanas could have been tighter!
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Charlie Noakes:
> (In reply to Lukeva)
>
> In my experience, 1 size down from your street shoe size gives a good tight fit, yet comfortable after break in period (probably around 4-5 sessions at the wall... could be longer, can't quite remember!).
>
> However five ten are also renowned for their inconsistent sizing, even within the same model. Saying this, the 2 pairs I've had have both been fine.

Like this! I'll stick with them for a month and see how it goes
ripper - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva: In my experience the VCS won't actually stretch but the shape will mould a little to your feet as they soften up a bit, with a few sessions. Probably helps if you sweat in them a lot.
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to mkean:
> (In reply to Lukeva)
> To give you an idea of 5.10 sizing I can comfortably wear 1.5 sizes below my street shoe size straight out of the box.

Maybe the wrong shoes then? I have very average shaped feet neither fat nor thin. I hope they come good cuz the don't come cheap
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to ripper:
> (In reply to Lukeva) In my experience the VCS won't actually stretch but the shape will mould a little to your feet as they soften up a bit, with a few sessions. Probably helps if you sweat in them a lot.

Thanks, if this weather carries on I can guarantee that! It’s the fact that my big toe is almost vertical that worries me. Is that normal for aggressive fit?
Sir Chasm - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva: Vertical? Pointing up or down?
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Sir Chasm:
> (In reply to Lukeva) Vertical? Pointing up or down?

Haha pointing up is all kinds of wrong. Crunched pointing down
ripper - on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva: I must be some kind of milquetoast softy - I only go down half a size from street shoes to VCS. I have wide feet (at the toe end) and can't take my third and fourth toes being scrunched anymore than that. The fit is tight on my big toe in a semi-bunched position but not too painful, once they're broken in.
cha1n on 23 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:
> (In reply to cha1n)
> [...]
>
> I wear size 12 street shoe but think I'm really 12.5 but struggle with shoes that size.
>

Weird feet then ;-) On a serious note, I don't know if La Sportiva are consistent throughout the size range but like I said, two sizes down from street size is normally minimum for them. Take a look at this Rock Shoe sizing chart from Rock & Run for proof: http://info.rockrun.com/articles/rock-shoe-sizing-guide.html

BananaFingers also have a size guide. Click on the pair of shoes that you want and then there's a yellow box giving instructions: http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/climbingshoes-c-67_22.html?page=2&sort=5a

Obviously the sizing guides are just recommendations based on averages that they have encountered in the shops but they're a good start.

I also noted that you have socks on in all of your photos. Do you usually do this, as I have heard that this can add on half a size. Lastly, you shouldn't really experience any sharp pains in the toe joints when using the shoes, but discomfort from rubbing over the top of the toes is normal if they're bunched. You have to use your common sense to recognised if they material is likely to stretch out or not, this is something that you get better at the more shoes you go through.
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to ripper:
> (In reply to Lukeva) I must be some kind of milquetoast softy - I only go down half a size from street shoes to VCS. I have wide feet (at the toe end) and can't take my third and fourth toes being scrunched anymore than that. The fit is tight on my big toe in a semi-bunched position but not too painful, once they're broken in.

I'm going to try and break them in. Got to really
Lukeva - on 23 May 2012
In reply to cha1n:
> (In reply to Lukeva)
> [...]
>
> Weird feet then ;-) On a serious note, I don't know if La Sportiva are consistent throughout the size range but like I said, two sizes down from street size is normally minimum for them. Take a look at this Rock Shoe sizing chart from Rock & Run for proof: http://info.rockrun.com/articles/rock-shoe-sizing-guide.html
>
> BananaFingers also have a size guide. Click on the pair of shoes that you want and then there's a yellow box giving instructions: http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/climbingshoes-c-67_22.html?page=2&sort=5a
>
> Obviously the sizing guides are just recommendations based on averages that they have encountered in the shops but they're a good start.
>
> I also noted that you have socks on in all of your photos. Do you usually do this, as I have heard that this can add on half a size. Lastly, you shouldn't really experience any sharp pains in the toe joints when using the shoes, but discomfort from rubbing over the top of the toes is normal if they're bunched. You have to use your common sense to recognised if they material is likely to stretch out or not, this is something that you get better at the more shoes you go through.

Yea thanks for the links I'd checked them and they are the 'correct' size. Nah, not normally certainly not indoors. Just for the last climb if it's really cold sometimes. Not worried about the material rubbing it was a sharp pain in big toe joint, left foot only. I've just tried them again walking round if I kind of straighten my toes a tiny bit the pain reduces hugely so I hope they will form to my feet maybe. I think I may have been letting them bunch too much and stressing the joint? That comment was really helpful.
Gambit - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva: Maybe next time go into a shop and try some on before buying?
Lukeva - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Gambit:
> (In reply to Lukeva) Maybe next time go into a shop and try some on before buying?

Live and learn. Tonight; either I break them, or they break me
Jep_uk - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:

I had a similar issue with my big toe on my left foot, I tried on some size 11 evolv pontas 2, and they were too narrow, so ordered 11.5, and they hurt my big toe like mad. For some reason my big left toe doesn't like bending that much (ie pointing down), so they went back. I now have a pair of boreal joker lace ups in 11.5, much more comfortable and no toe pain.

Although I must not be getting shoes tight enough, as my standard shoe size is 11 and my boreals are 11.5. I dont think it would be physically be possible to get in any smaller. This is my first pair I have owned by the way (and new to the forums so will say hi).
Flinticus - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:
Sell them on. I don't think you should be in as much pain as you seem to be in. I did similair with another pair: when I put my weight on my front It feckin hurt (yet they had felt OK in the shop. My toes were not at all happy & sod it, I boulder for fun, not for punishment.
GrahamD - on 24 May 2012
In reply to all:

Why do people still insist on buying rock shoes by name rather than by fit ?
Lukeva - on 24 May 2012
In reply to GrahamD: erm, because of their reviews. I wanted to try them but the shops didn't have my size. But I take your point. I took a gamble
Lukeva - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Flinticus: Think I might, I'll see after tonight. I'm not sure what is 'normal' pain, don't really want any
Lukeva - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Jep_uk: Hi, these forums are at times fun, and at times brutal
ads.ukclimbing.com
Fluvial - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:
> (In reply to Jep_uk) Hi, these forums are at times fun, and at times brutal

Agreed

I had to sell my VCS as even though I tried them on in the shop I fell for the waffle about having to be really tight etc, but no climbing shoe should hurt, they should be tight but not hurt. I lost £30 on the deal but they were snapped up on here.

I just wanted the VCS when maybe because of my wide feet would have been better going for the Galileos.

PS try walking round the house in them to stretch them a little - this didn't work for me but some say it does. I sold them anyway.
neil the weak - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:
> I have purchased a pair of 5.10 Anasazi VCS the same size as my Sportiva Katanas. They are a ½ size smaller than my street shoes size. Now, I realise that I should have gone a full UK size down after reading previous threads. Too late!
>

Your shoes (down a half size) are unwearably painfull - and you think you're mistake is that you bought them too big?! Did you really type/think that?

It's not surprising that you are finding them painfull anyway, Katanas are very big made indeed as rockshoes go. Most folk would size a 5.10 VCS about a full size bigger (as on the shoe label) in order to end up with the same fit so you have essentially bought a much smaller size than you had before by accident even though it will be labelled as the same on the shoe.

As to whether they are to small for you really, then sizing depends massively on personal preference and what you're used to but having shoes that feel crippling is rarely performance enhancing! That said and without wishing to be mean it does sound like you have quite wimpy feet...... It is relatively common for people to fit Katanas anything from 1-3 sizes under street shoe size, depending on how much pressure / tightness and toe crimp they like in their shoes. VCS is normally more like 1/2 to 2 sizes down so you are already wearing them quite "loose" already, relatively speaking.

If you just don't want your toes all curled up in your shoes, that's fair enough too but there are probably better shoes out there than VCS's if that's the foot position you prefer. Something more upright heeled, flat and lace up would a be a good place to go. Trying them on before buying if you hadn't already worked it out, is quite important....
CharlieMack - on 24 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva:

I used to wear shoes super tight, just because everyone says that's what you should do. I'm pretty sure that's total rubbish. Just get the shoes to be snug. Unless you are climbing really hard and on tiny footholds, then it seems like a lot of pain, for no real gain.

I've got up plenty of reasonably hard routes in comfy shoes, and my feet coming off the holds has never been the reason i've not got up a route (that could have been fixed by having a size down in my shoes).

I have Katanas in a 6.5, and my Anasazi VCS in an 8, they are both comfortable enough for me to have them on all day at the crag/wall. I am an 8 in basically every shoe make. But really small in Sportiva's, they seem to have very wierd sizing.

Sounds like you've either got the wrong size, or the shoes don't fit your feet.
Lukeva - on 24 May 2012
In reply to neil the weak:
I meant to say full size up. As it happens I think my Katanas were too big. Just done 3 hours in my VCS, was ok doing 4x4 on 15m routes so just getting used to sizing my shoes. My wimpy feet seemed ok. A full session made a huge difference.
Lukeva - on 24 May 2012
In reply to CharlieMack: Uh huh, Katanas were too big, will do for big mountain days. I was wearing them wrong too (VCS), my heal wasn't snug so my toe joint was under huge pressure, the material rub is fine. Really enjoyed them tonight!
Bertbee - on 25 May 2012
In reply to cha1n:

Yep - my Katanas are size 7, and I take 9.5 street size. Off all the (many) shoes I tried on, the Katanas generally felt like they fitted my foot shape best.

There was some bite on the knuckle of my left big toe at first, so I had to take them off after each climb. After about 4-5 sessions, I could leave the shoes on for 20-30min before I needed to take them off.

Think this might be a bit of my shoes adapting, and a bit of feet getting used to it - I've definitely got some hardened skin on the spot on my left toe where the shoe had been biting.

I've got quite narrow feet, and found the Anasazi's (and also the Evolv Pontas) didn't fit my feet at all. I narrowed down my choice to Vapour V's and the Katanas, and the latter eventual 'edged' it.
kingofthering on 25 May 2012
In reply to Bertbee:

Not beeing able to bear some pain in the toes and buying soft rock shoe as the VCS which requires some pain in the begining doesn´t make any sence to me. You should have bought something stiff and as someone else mentioned lace-ups.
Every shoes has a size it should be worn and some kind of pain you have to go through otherwise it won´t work as it should.
I see too much people at the crag who are wearing their solution(!) while belaying and climbing UIAA 5.
I would´t buy shoes because of good reviews. People who are writing good reviews about shoes are mostly people who fit them the right size.
For example buy a Miura in streetshoe size and you will see the so loved edging-machine will be weak and shit for edging.

Btw.
Anasazis strech if you force ´em to do so. My 5.10´s always streched about as much as a Katana does but they take a lot longer. And don´t wear new shoes when its hot. Your feet are bigger when its hot so you don´t wanna break them in at summer days.
Lukeva - on 25 May 2012
In reply to kingofthering: Sorted now thanks
neil the weak - on 25 May 2012
In reply to Lukeva: That's good. I'm glad you and your decreasingly wimpy feet have found have found temporary happiness in the comfort of beige shoes. :)

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