/ Human rights in China a big priority, Turkey not so.

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duzinga - on 01 Jun 2012
A previous post by someone blaming BBC for manipulation by using Iraq images for the Syrian killings got me thinking. Well aren't they [manipulating]? I keep reading how terrible the human rights are in China on BBC everyday, and what I read there are no worse than what is happening in Turkey and the neighbouring countries. Yet nothing gets reported about the shitty human rights in Turkey.

Some recent news from Turkey that never got reported on BBC.

1. A guy who got pepper sprayed, even though he told the police that he had asthma, died. His family also got pepper sprayed by the police, because they wanted to protest their son's death.
2. The Minister of Health declared that "the state will take care of the baby of a woman who is raped", and the women do not have the right to take a decision of abortion by themselves even in these cases.
3. The Minister further declared that the new bill proposal on banning abortion will be presented to the parliament in June. The Prime Minister said that he feels personally responsible not only for abortion but also for caesarian procedure.
4. The new law banning the right to strike to airline workers just passed.
5. 300 Turkish Airlines employees were fired because they went on strike.
6. Tobacco and alcohol prices were raised by %15.
7. The police force switched to using iron batons.
8. An investigation was started regarding 103 lawyers who defended pro-Kurdish activists, politicians, journalists, academics, students in the recent "KCK" case.
9. Esra Arsan, associate professor, was fired from one of the most "liberal" universities after she was called a terrorist by an ultra-religious newspaper. So much for the tenure...
10. The Minister of Health declared that the liberty for abortion is a product of the military coup in 1980 "12 Eylül".
11. "12 people are pressed for charges for the negative comments they made on facebook about Erdogan's abortion 'discussion'"
12.The office of the chief public prosecutor has sent a report to the Ministry of Justice to remove the privilege of immunity of 8 oppositional deputy members.
Big Steve - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga:

> Some recent news from Turkey that never got reported on BBC.
>

> 6. Tobacco and alcohol prices were raised by %15.
Oh man, thats disgusting. How dare they do that, it is just sick

> 7. The police force switched to using iron batons.
Really? I have never seen police or gendarmes wielding iron batons. I am in Ankara very regularly, I own a home there. I have seen dozens of demonstrations in Kizilay, I have yet to vicious police beating innocent protestors with iron batons

There certainly are human rights violations in Turkey, especially if you are a Kurd but they are nothing compared to the likes of Syria or China.



BruceWee - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Big Steve:

You could argue that Turkey's human rights violations, even if they are less severe than China's, should be more relevant to the BBC's reporting since the UK government is a major supporter of Turkey joining the EU.
Bruce Hooker - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga:

You could also add that Turkey is still occupying half of an EU member state - Cyprus, and also refuse to recognise the massacre of Armenians, let alone compensate them for their losses. It is illegal to say this publicly.
duzinga - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Big Steve: I agree that the tobacco prices look stupid when you don't know the whole story. But leaving that behind, considering that all this stuff happened in the past couple of days, I would say there is not much human rights in Turkey. Also, I guess they would be slow in employing the iron batons if they have just had the decision made. I would disagree that the human rights violations in Turkey is nothing compared to the likes of China. In any case these things going unreported in BBC is showing a clear bias. This stuff does not happen only in Turkey. There is a lot of human rights violations in Cyprus and Bulgaria as well. Oh by the way, I own a home in China, and I have never seen any dissident get abused there.
Sir Chasm - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga: The Chinese are a great bunch of lads, if you've never seen any dissidents abused then I'm sure it doesn't happen.
In reply to duzinga: I think there is lots of coverage of Turkish human rights abuses on the BBC and elsewhere. Just the other week I heard a whole documentary about the crap the Turkish military put gay conscipts through on the BBC.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to BruceWee:
> (In reply to Big Steve)
>
> You could argue that Turkey's human rights violations, even if they are less severe than China's, should be more relevant to the BBC's reporting since the UK government is a major supporter of Turkey joining the EU.

another way of looking at it is that seeing as china is likely to be a dominent global superpower both economically and militarily over the next century, then its human rights violations could be seen as more relevant than those of a moderately important regional power

not saying that is the case, just suggesting another slant on the matter

cheers
gregor
duzinga - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Sir Chasm: not sure if you got my sarcastic comment or not, but I think you just reiterated my point.

pebbles - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Big Steve: "I am in Ankara very regularly, I own a home there. "
Duzinga probably has a bit more in depth knowledge - he's turkish cypriot. If you read his post I dont think he's belittling human rights violations in china, just frustrated about the lack of comparative coverage of Turkey.
Sir Chasm - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga: I can only get upset about one thing at a time, can you let me know whether I'm supposed to be getting upset about human rights in China, Turkey, Cyprus, Bulgaria or the BBC coverage?
duzinga - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Sir Chasm: How about the rotting pegs on Highlight at High Tor?
Big Steve - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to pebbles: I do know a little bit about Turkey - I am married to a Turk and over the last few years have spent more time there than in UK.

I dont think for one moment that everything is rosey out there,in fact IMHO think things are changing for the worse, as the Prime minister seems determined to take the country towards an Islamic State however I just cannot see how Turkey can be compared to China
Bruce Hooker - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Big Steve:

> I just cannot see how Turkey can be compared to China

Me neither :-)
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Bruce Hooker:

you're very smiley today Bruce...!

the sun must be shining over the other side of the channel...

cheers
gregor
kipper12 - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> (In reply to BruceWee)
> [...]
>.............moderately important regional power.

The major issue with Turkey is if it manages to get into the EU, it has such a large population, that it will become quite powerful thanks to Qualified Majority Voting, all it will really need is a few smaller MS to back it and they will hold sway. At the moment, QMV means that if the UK and Germany support something we almost certainly will get our way. The prospect of Turkey becoming a major EU power broker, is something I am not confortable with.
duzinga - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to kipper12: I would not worry about power being given to Turkey via EU. There would certainly be some special conditions (just like it was done to Bulgaria, Romania..) to prevent Turkey having any real say in the EU. So rest easy. Don't be so pessimistic though, nobody would have wanted Germany to be in power few decades ago, now Germany is one of the better places to be in Europe.
duzinga - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Big Steve: Well, I don't know about which is better or worse. But the violations are there, and they are a lot more widely reported by the Turkish media than it would be in China. So why not report these in the western media at all? The volume might be less (I doubt it), but the degree of the crimes are not worse imo. I guess what gregor said might have something to do with it.
victorclimber - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga: is anyone aware that at the start of the summer season the street children are cleared of the streets and placed in jails ,and when the season ends they throw them back out to fend for themselves again..one reason I wouldnt go to Turkey...
joan cooper - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga: The hundreds of stray dogs that curry favour with visitors in Turkey and get fed tit bits are tollerated because they amuse the visitors. Until the end of the season then they are rounded up and exterminated.
Bruce Hooker - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> the sun must be shining over the other side of the channel...

Not really today but we're are coming over to England tomorrow, perhaps that's why... apparently the Queen has decided to have a party the same time as our visit, which is a bit cheeky.

PS. I don't think I meant the same as Steve though.
Anonymous on 01 Jun 2012 - host86-133-45-203.range86-133.btcentralplus.com
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

> not saying that is the case, just suggesting another slant on the matter

Dear oh dear, Prince Phillip would have been proud of that one.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Anonymous:

Oops. Missed that entirely. Poor choice of idiom by me, though you seem to be the first to pick up on it.
Big Steve - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga: I have been thinking about this thread all afternoon. I am a little wrorried now that I am being blind to what is really happening.

My wife is a governemnt employee and has a very good job and we have a home in a nice area. While I absolutely stand by what I wrote earlier, I am now wondering if I am missing things simply because they are not part of our little world
Bruce Hooker - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to Big Steve:

I have a friend who works in Baku... his take on the country is pretty different from the one presented in Europe. He knows that there are problems but living and working there he doesn't feel it in the same way. He also sees the positive sides, which are rarely presented in the press in Europe.
Jim Fraser - on 01 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga:

Aye, you probably can't compare Turkey with China unless you're a Kurd.

China has all sorts of superficial freedoms but it's still a sleazy corrupt country with a dictatorship run by a privileged elite. Some progress here and there, but free trade and an exchangeable yuan don't make genuine social and political freedom.

Never been to Turkey and frankly I don't want to. What a difference a couple of years can make. Two or three years ago a lot of people could see Turkey as an example to the rest of the middle east. Now Turkey is on a backslide and the Tunisians, Egyptians and Libyans are showing they can do it on their own.

And don't start me on EU membership. Grrrr.
duzinga - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to Big Steve: Well, when everything is moving nicely it is an awesome place to be.

Again, I can't say that it is worse or better than China, but I'd think that the human rights issues in Turkey are as relevant to Europe than it is in China. Turkey is also not the only country in Europe with bad human rights track record. I'm sure a lot of you visited Cyprus (north or south), there are appalling things happening that do not get reported. The place does not really need to be a shit hole to have its human rights violations reported, especially if that country is in Europe.
duzinga - on 02 Jun 2012
To all who say, they don't go to Turkey because of poor human rights treatments. Don't think so highly of yourselves, your visit to Turkey has no diplomatic meaning so you can rest easy; it will not send out any wrong signals. I'm sure any other country you visit must have some nasty thing happening anyway. I bet most of you would love to visit Japan, the land of xenophobia and oppression.
Eric9Points - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga:

Sorry but you're losing me here.

What would like us to do about Turkey?

Who's oppressed in Japan by the way,I've been there twice and deal with Japanese folk quite a lot and wasn't aware of anything resembling oppression.
victorclimber - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga: I aint going to Japan until they apologise
Al Evans on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to victorclimber: I know nothing about Turkey, but just going on some of the comments above,would an Islamic state be compatible with EU policy? I mean not least because of their treatment of women?
MG - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to Al Evans: You know Turkey is secular?
duzinga - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to Eric9Points: Yeah I think I am jumping around a lot just to make my point, sorry. I was just nagging about BBC's bias that's all. I think some people took my comments as Turkey or Japan bashing in your case?
Japan is a wonderful place to visit, and I encourage people to do so. It was a comment for trying to show how silly it is to not visit a country, just because the government does not have a track of good human rights. By the way, there IS a constant oppression of the common people within the society, a strong fear of foreigners in the government, and a bunch of racist laws. I will not list any but if interested I am sure you can find all the well documented cases easily via google.
Postmanpat on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga:
> (In reply to Eric9Points) Yeah I think I am jumping around a lot just to make my point, sorry. I was just nagging about BBC's bias that's all.
>

NBC in institutional bias scandal, shock horror.....

Postmanpat on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to Postmanpat:

whoops

BBC
Bruce Hooker - on 02 Jun 2012
In reply to MG:
> (In reply to Al Evans) You know Turkey is secular?

Perhaps you should change "is" for "was"?

Tiberius - on 03 Jun 2012
In reply to duzinga:
> ...I bet most of you would love to visit Japan, the land of xenophobia and oppression.

I know a Japanese girl who is far from xenophobic :)

Don't Turkey still have the death penalty? I think that's banned in the EU. I still don't see how they're gonna get round the Cyprus problem tbh, both sides on that are pretty intransigent.
duzinga - on 03 Jun 2012
In reply to Tiberius: Intransigent is a very polite way of describing the Cypriot politicians:).
As far as I know Turkey abandoned capital punishment since the capture of Ocalan (the PKK leader), which is early 2000?

My experience with the Japanese girls is the same. Japanese ladies are known to be much more open minded and approachable! Sadly this is a men's country.

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