/ Threading etiquette
Plus, isn't it just a waste of time and energy if everyone in your group threads the same route over and over?
I thought that was what people did anyway!!
Absolutely spot on. When climbing I'm out climbing, especially if there is a group of us, quickdraws will just be left in routes for the last man/woman who wants to climb it to strip them. I don't know many keen sport climbers who are not happy to save themselves a minute of faffing around by leaving their draws in routes for their friends to use.
The excessive wear on Portland is really a separate issue. The worst examples are not from climbers being possessive about their quickdraws, it is mainly from the sheer number of novice climbers top-roping the limited number of easier routes. The biggest problems is large commercial groups run by lazy, ignorant individuals who can't be bothered to rig the routes properly with their own equipment for the duration of the group's climbing session.
Some good discussion on the topic recently, here- http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=500720&v=1#x6824072
I have spoken to a few groups now on Portland who were toproping through the loweroff bolts and explained the problems it is causing. Hopefully by spreading the word around we can reduce the number of groups who do it.
We have recently installed ‘pigtails’ supplied by the Dorset Bolt Fund onto the loweroffs at the Veranda and Bower areas on Portland. You just feed your rope over the horns and then lower off, no need to untie or thread the loweroffs
( http://tinyurl.com/czrwakn ).
I noticed from your profile that you have climbed in Mallorca. I am off there soon for the first time. Staying at Port de Soller (although the routes there are out of bounds at the moment :(. Hopefully get some good climbing in if it is not too hot…
As I thought! I liked the pigtails...interestingly though, when I was at Portland (Fallen Slab arete I think) some noisy students where threading the pigtails!!
Yup, Mallorca was amazing. I went with Rock and Sun so we got taken to the best spots! Soller has stunning views and if its the right town I'm thinking off, lovely little cafes too. There were no restrictions when I was there but not many routes I could actually climb! I did a stunning 3* 6a - Sea. It was the easiest route there at the time (not sure if more have been added?) and amazed myself I got up it. Try Cala Magraner...real mix of all grades...bit of a trek to walk in but is on the beach so you can cool off quite easy :) Enjoy!
Of course its not so easy to use your own gear for top roping in conjunction with pigtails.
Used quickdraws etc.
Agree with your stance.
In Squamish, the etiquette seems to be that the nobody should lower off, even the last climber, who should Ab.
Personally, I think that's taking it a bit too far. Especially if there are rings which are free spinning. They are called a 'lower offs' for a reason and converting it to an ab is both faffier and riskier.
Agree with you there!
Even on freely rotating rings? Why do you think they call it a 'lower off' and not an 'ab off'?
Ok, fine, we'll call them cabbages if you like. But things like freely rotating rings and pigs tails are DESIGNED with lowering off in mind.
You're absolutely right but unfortunately too many people thread instead of using their own quick draws causing unnecessary wear to the lower-offs. This includes outdoor groups which typically have a queue of people lining up to be top roped through the lower-offs. When they need replacing someone has to do it and someone has to pay for them. Its very simple - last person threads.
> Plus, isn't it just a waste of time and energy if everyone in your group threads the same route over and over?
This is just thought that popped into my head for the top krab if you are going to be on the route for a while with a group would a revolver work or should it be a locking krab?
I've got a slingdraw made from revolver and 30cm sling.
Would reduce wear on your QD as well.
Use that to lower off and leave it in situ
Dirt cheap and easy to replace
I dunno, I think the less abbing the better, it's a complete accident magnet and last person lowers frees the route up much quicker.
Not a good idea to use revolvers for that, you need some friction in the system otherwise many belayers would meet their climbers as they fly up the crag.
I use a short sling, doubled, with 2 screwgates.
First person up clips 1 screwgate to each bolt, and then clip the rope through one of the screwgates to be lowered off (or 1 rope through each if using double ropes).
The sling means that both bolts are in use in case of catastrophic failure of one. Sling loop can obviously be shortened to eliminate shock-loading.
Continue using until last person, who then threads for lower offf or abseil as appropriate. If close enough to neighbouring anchor point (or can be reached by traversing across from), then it can be retrieved from same, or you can traverse across to set this rig up on a neighbouring route and arrange it for a top-rope.
> Use that to lower off and leave it in situ
> Dirt cheap and easy to replace
- Needs to be done up properly so no good to place under pressure
- Pain in the arse for the next person to have to strip it
snap gates are a much better option for this
Thanks for the comment on revolvers, I thought it might remove too much friction but wanted to see what people thought.
> I've got a slingdraw made from revolver and 30cm sling.
> Would reduce wear on your QD as well.
With a group the ideal answer is to use a STEEL screwgate or a thick (10mm+) STEEL ring. I wouldn't use a pulley as that creates issues where there are appreciable weight difference between group members, especially with novice belayers.
However, I regularly use a revolver quickdraw when out climbing personally as it makes aiding up on the rope when working routes much easier. However I am normally climbing with experienced climbers of similar weights who won't be at all fazed by ending up a couple of feet off the ground.
One thing to bear in mind is that, for personal climbing, the wear on quickdraws will normally be randomly distributed amongst all your quickdraws meaning it is probably not something you need to worry about.
You don't place them under pressure Graham, and their fine hand tight.
Yes, in the context of this thread you are right. Comments were more relevent to maillons as emergency bailout kit.
No, secured by two screwgates.
If two ropes used, put one through each screwgate (prevents ropes rubbing against each other).
If one rope either put it through both screwgates, or just through one if you like. Whichever option, the two scregates are attached to each other by the (shortened to reduceshock-loading to a minimum) sling.
The main advantage versus using quickdraws (or any form of open gate carabiner), is that if you use this for top-roping there is no worry about ropes coming out of the gate when tension is removed. You are effectively duplicating the set-up at an indoor wall.
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