UKC

Setting up a top rope with only a dynamic rope?

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 robinmuzette 26 Jun 2012
I only have one dynamic rope, but would like to take a couple of friends climbing at my local crag, here's the plan:
Starting from one end of the rope, have two or three anchors and equalise them with an overhand knot so it hangs over the edge of the cliff, then attach two carabiners to the loop. Then just send the rest of the rope through the carabiners like a normal top rope. There'd be an extra length of rope that hangs down, but that could be secured away and the rope's long enough for the climbs which are only 10m max. What do you think?
In reply to robinmuzette: Ive done that a few times. perfectly fine so long as it is long enough.
 sbc23 26 Jun 2012
In reply to robinmuzette:

Fine, just watch for wear on the 'static' bit of rope as it passes over the edge. It'll move about more than static rope or slings (and cost more to replace!)

Steve
 charley 26 Jun 2012
In reply to robinmuzette: Would recommend you use a rope protector. With the extra stretch in the rope it's more likely to rub against the edge of the rock.
 hedgehog77 27 Jun 2012
In reply to robinmuzette: So you are setting up a bottom rope? Belay at bottom = bottom rope! Why not set up a top rope and belay from top. Same set up as you have mentioned but have you equalization knot just back from the edge you connect to that and belay them as if you have just lead it. Or they belay each other. Keep you rope tight from anchors to belayer to minimize rope stretch. Youtube has videos about this.
 CurlyStevo 27 Jun 2012
In reply to hedgehog77:
> (In reply to robinmuzette) So you are setting up a bottom rope? Belay at bottom = bottom rope! Why not set up a top rope and belay from top. Same set up as you have mentioned but have you equalization knot just back from the edge you connect to that and belay them as if you have just lead it. Or they belay each other. Keep you rope tight from anchors to belayer to minimize rope stretch. Youtube has videos about this.

top ropes are not as good for instructional purposes as you can't see the climber as well, also if people are hanging on the rope its often much less comfortable, depending where the anchors are.
 CurlyStevo 27 Jun 2012
In reply to robinmuzette:
> I only have one dynamic rope, but would like to take a couple of friends climbing at my local crag, here's the plan:
> Starting from one end of the rope, have two or three anchors and equalise them with an overhand knot so it hangs over the edge of the cliff, then attach two carabiners to the loop. Then just send the rest of the rope through the carabiners like a normal top rope. There'd be an extra length of rope that hangs down, but that could be secured away and the rope's long enough for the climbs which are only 10m max. What do you think?

you can buy 10mm static off the reel quite cheaply. 10 - 15 meters should do it. The rigging rope often gets trashed quicker top roping so you wouldn't really want to use yr 50m dynamic. often you can rig with slings too if needed.
 jkarran 27 Jun 2012
In reply to robinmuzette:

Protect the rigging rub points or you'll trash your rope. Why two krabs? Other than that it's fine.

jk
 CurlyStevo 27 Jun 2012
In reply to jkarran:
It's quite hard to protected all the rub points (various places agaist the top of the crag, the edge of the crag and face of the crag too, especially where the figure of eight is tied for the rope biners to go through.) Of course you can do all sorts of tricks with bits of old carpet and cut off bottles where the figure of eight is tied to, but personally I'd just get a bit of cheap rigging rope or use slings.
 hedgehog77 27 Jun 2012
In reply to curlystevo : top ropes are not as good for instructiona purposes as you can't see the climber as well, also if people are hanging on the rope its often much less comfortable, depending where the much less comfortable, depending where the anchors are. Unless you use bunnyears!
 CurlyStevo 27 Jun 2012
In reply to hedgehog77:
"Unless you use bunnyears!" Care to elabourate?

In any case it's easier to help people with the climbing from the bottom normally and you can also better check that they are tied in correctly and generally not doing something dangerous.
 valentinesbabe 27 Jun 2012
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to hedgehog77)
> "Unless you use bunnyears!" Care to elabourate?
>
>
I think he's probably referring to an alpine butterfly when he said bunnyears...or at least that's what I'd think meant cos that's what it looks like
 valentinesbabe 27 Jun 2012
In reply to valentinesbabe:
> (In reply to CurlyStevo)
> [...]
> I think he's probably referring to an alpine butterfly when he said bunnyears...or at least that's what I'd think meant cos that's what it looks like

... a double alpine butterfly that is...!
 Mark Kemball 27 Jun 2012
In reply to robinmuzette: Another vote for the "buy some rigging rope" - If you don't, it's ridiculously easy to trash your rope, then of course, you'll have as much rigging rope as you'll ever need but you'll have to buy a new lead rope. As others have said, there is no need for 2 krabs - 1 will suffice, but make sure the gate is pointing downwards (ie gravity would tend to tighten the screwgate) otherwise, vibrations in the rope can make the gate unscrew (not a problem with a twist lock).
 Mark Kemball 27 Jun 2012
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to hedgehog77)
> "Unless you use bunnyears!" Care to elabourate?
>
A figure of 8 variant giving 2 loops to clip into, taught in the SPA,
 CurlyStevo 27 Jun 2012
In reply to Mark Kemball:
ahh yes I see, will atleast make the system more comfortable for top roping.
 jezb1 27 Jun 2012
In reply to Mark Kemball:
> (In reply to CurlyStevo)
> [...]
> A figure of 8 variant giving 2 loops to clip into, taught in the SPA,

Although not looked on so favourably these days.... (from an spa moderator)
 John Foster 27 Jun 2012
In reply to hedgehog77:
> (In reply to robinmuzette) So you are setting up a bottom rope? Belay at bottom = bottom rope!

I have never subscribed to this awful term. Belay anchors at the top = top rope!

arrghh - sorry.
OP robinmuzette 29 Jun 2012
In reply to John Foster: Agreed! I'd say anchors at the top means a top rope and you still belay at the bottom!
 Nigel Thomson 29 Jun 2012
In reply to John Foster:
> (In reply to hedgehog77)
> [...]
>
> I have never subscribed to this awful term. Belay anchors at the top = top rope!
>
> arrghh - sorry.

I'm easily annoyed, but it gets on my thrup'nny bits as well!

 Jamie B 29 Jun 2012
In reply to robinmuzette:

You can reduce stretch in the dynamic rig by doubling the rope.
 John Ww 29 Jun 2012
In reply to hedgehog77:
> (In reply to robinmuzette) So you are setting up a bottom rope? Belay at bottom = bottom rope!

No he's not, he's setting up a top rope, i.e. a rope from the top of the crag to protect the route from above. "Bottom rope" is a term which seems to have crept in in the last couple of years, possibly from the US.
 daviesp2 29 Jun 2012
In reply to jezb1:
> (In reply to Mark Kemball)
> [...]
>
> Although not looked on so favourably these days.... (from an spa moderator)

Why is that?
In reply to daviesp2: fooking 'ell, wot's wrong with you people? Dynamic rope? Static rope? Rope used for extending the belay? Rope protectors? Doubling the rope to reduce stretch? Bottom roping? God give us strength.......................

Use belay slings to extend the anchor - not the rope................. We never had anything other than a "climbing" rope - 40 years on we still don't need another type.................. ever.

Intelligence, common sense and knowledge are the best pieces of kit you'll EVER have in your bag. Or not. Depends on whether you can use them too.
 John Ww 29 Jun 2012
In reply to unclesamsauntibess:

Thank God it's not just me who thinks the same as you.

I do feel that we are becoming a dying breed which is about to be devoured by the new wave of wall-bred, qualification-obsessed, course-seeking, guide-requiring people (notice the avoidance of the word "climber") who don't appear to have the capability or desire to work things out for themselves. The number of posts along the lines of "how do I rack my karabiners?" etc. is no longer mildy bewildering, it's just plain frustrating. Ho hum.
In reply to John Ww:

the clue is in the title of the forum:

Starting Out forum
Advice for beginners & improvers

A forum for asking questions, whether you are deciding to get into climbing or have just started and need something explained. UKClimbing.com is visited by many experienced climbers, including climbing and mountaineering guides, who will gladly help out.

go to "favourite forums", uncheck the "starting out" one, job done, your frustrations will soon be nothing more than an irritating memory...

cheers
gregor
In reply to jezb1:
> (In reply to Mark Kemball)
> [...]
>
> Although not looked on so favourably these days.... (from an spa moderator)

Why the hell not? I was praised for being the only one for using it on my assessment.
 John Ww 29 Jun 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

Thank you for your invaluable input - I was wondering what that button was for! Could you now explain to me the words "library", "book", and "read", as I'm a bit unsure about them?
In reply to John Ww:
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
>
Could you now explain to me the words "library", "book", and "read", as I'm a bit unsure about them?


that's not a surprise, as the simple english in the forum description seems to have been beyond you too- you know, the bit where it said:

UKClimbing.com is visited by many experienced climbers, including climbing and mountaineering guides, who will gladly help out


that was help out, not make snide comments.

the whole point of setting up the starting out forum was so newcomers could ask this sort of question without people picking on them. your post was just bad manners really, and your response to it being pointed out marks you out a lacking in social skills.

by all means start a thread lamenting the state of climbing today, i might even agree with you about some points. but do it in rocktalk, not here.

as to a book, i'm sure they could look one up, but when ukc so kindly provides a forum specifically so they can ask more experienced climbers for advice, you can kind of see why they might have got the idea it was reasonable to post the question here.

it would be nice to think you had the good grace to accept you've just misjudged this one, and that you just didnt get it about the starting out forum, that would be fair enough i guess,

over to you,

cheers
gregor
 John Ww 30 Jun 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

>your post was just bad manners really, and your response to it being pointed out marks you out a (sic) lacking in social skills.


Ok, here we go then.

Firstly, my post was addressed to unclesamsauntiebess, not to the OP, and not to you.

Secondly, I have no problem with the OP's question, which was indeed posted in the appropriate forum. My comments to unclesamsauntiebess were (as I pointed out) a response to the more inane posts which seem to be becoming ever more prevalent.

Thirdly, whether or not you consider my comments to you to be "snide" is entirely up to you - for my part, I considered your tone to be patronising, but hey ho.

However, your assertion that I am "lacking in social skills" is a splendid leap into speculation on your part - perhaps I'd be more hurt if you could actually construct the sentence correctly!

Anyway, as I have no with to hijack this thread with any more bickering, this will be my last word. Feel free to pm me if you wish, but given my lack of social skills, I wouldn't hold your breathe while waiting for a reply.

JW x
In reply to John Ww:

lol, are you familiar with the expression about when you're in a hole, the best course of action is to stop digging...?

"Firstly, my post was addressed to unclesamsauntiebess, not to the OP, and not to you."

well, if it was a private message, why did you post it on a public forum? you do realise that other people can read your posts as well as the person you reply to, don't you?

and you do realise that by criticising my grammar rather than addressing the point i was making just adds to the unattractive impression you are giving of yourself here...?

i'll hand it to you- you do do irony though-

"Anyway, as I have no with (sic) to hijack this thread with any more bickering"

too late, you did already, back on friday, with your post to unclesamsauntiebess. since you had no shame about it then, i think we're all entitled to wonder why you have suddenly become so concerned about it now.

as for the social skills- no speculation at all. you blunder into a forum set up specifically for people new to climbing to get friendly advice from old hands, and moan that new climbers ask stupid questions. its the online equivalent of going along to the first club meet of the year and spending the day passing sarcastic comments about the new members, making them feel uncomfortable. this self evidently demonstrates a deficit in the social skills to modify behaviour according to place and those present.

as for my comments seeming snide, thats because they were. but if you are going to behave like a boor in a public forum, you'd do well to grow a skin thick enough to put up with the criticism that's likely to attract. perhaps the internet is just not for you?

and i've no desire to PM you; i'm entirely comfortable with this being conducted openly- though i can see why you'd prefer the episode disappeared from public view.

i won't hold my breath waiting for a reply; though i reckon you'd do yourself immense credit if you posted just once more, to admit you made a misjudgement back on friday and that you now 'get' what the 'starting out' forum is about...

cheers,

Gregor


In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:

... though to be fair, i shouldn't have singled you out, as you were only responding to unclesamsauntiebess. my original reply should have been to both of you,

best wishes

Gregor
needvert 01 Jul 2012
In reply to robinmuzette:

I have 240cm and 120cm nylon slings I use for setting up top ropes. Around here I don't have to extend too far, but if I did I'd probably buy a length of static. I know it's more gear...But I'd not feel good at all using my dynamic rope to extend over a cliff edge. Strikes me as a false economy to use a relatively fragile dynamic rope in a likely abrasive circumstance.

I'd be fine climbing with what you're proposing as it sounds redundant (provided you retire the rope when appropriately worn). I'd probably eye it over carefully first though, as it is a bit nusual..
needvert 01 Jul 2012
Vaguely related...Interesting what some folks do!

http://climbpilotnc.us/NotRecommended.htm

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...