/ Tour de France - Live Discussion (Contains spoilers)

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Christheclimber - on 29 Jun 2012
Well it all starts tomorrow with the Prologue in Liège.
Who do you fancy to win the tour? Can Bradley do it, Cav has said he will forfeit stage wins to support Bradley.

UKC Edit - Title updated
BelleVedere on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

it's today! :)
In reply to Christheclimber:

I don't think a Wiggins win is quite the formality that is being suggested by the fairly ignorant UK sport media (I fully expect some reporters to start suggesting that Cavendish must be a potential winner as well after he bags a couple of stage victories next week).

Wiggo certainly has a good chance but he may also get knocked off an break his collar bone.

Alan
kevin stephens - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Wiggo certainly has a good chance but he may also get knocked off an break his collar bone.
>
Possible but much less likely this year with the Pretorian Guard of Team Sky to look after him

tim000 - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH: the same could be said of any rider . having cav on the team may help as they will be riding near the front keeping it together for a sprint on the flat stages .
Morgan Woods - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: when does it actually start?
Dave Kerr - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

It's started.
Mooncat - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to tim000:

I'm not sure that'll be happening quite as much this year, I reckon it'll be Cav and Eisel doing it on the back of Liquigas and Omega.
Morgan Woods - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Dave Kerr: Ta, turned the Telly on now :p
Morgan Woods - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods: Lancaster in front now..
bobbybin - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: I'm still not convinced that Wiggo wont have a bad day in the mountains and lose big chunks of time. Happened to Evans in the Giro before.
tim000 - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to tim000: they will want to keep up at the front though. out of trouble .
Christheclimber - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to bobbybin:

I know but Wiggo must stand a better chance this year.

Just got in do you know what happened today? Can't find the result on the BBC or official tour websites!
Thanks
nowler - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
cancellara won the prologue, wiggins was second by 7 seconds, chavanel was third with almost the same time, cuddles was 9 seconds behind wiggo...... so far so good!
tim000 - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to nowler: pretty much perfect id say . took a bit of time out of evans and not in yellow , so no hanging around after .
Christheclimber - on 30 Jun 2012
In reply to nowler:

Thanks, good stuff.
Christheclimber - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
Bump
tim000 - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: 20 k to go and it`s starting to get very nervous. rodgers gone down. just hit a cross wind , might be interesting.
tim000 - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: sky driving on the front. prob for EBH . or could wiggo go for it like in the Critérium du Dauphiné.
Christheclimber - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:

Cancellara 2nd and retains the yellow. Sagan wins and looks a strong sprint finisher.
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balmybaldwin - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Brilliant finish for stage 1, thought the whole sky team seemed to go missing for the last 6 or so K, but there at the finish.
woolsack - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Damn, that looked steep to the finish
Lord of Starkness - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Thread title should say 'contains spoilers'


PS I got 1,2,3 in todays stage in the Fantasy League
balmybaldwin - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Strava are doing a segment of the day coverage of the TDF: http://app.strava.com/tour-de-france-segment-of-the-day

A few of the TDF riders are uploading their rides for the day. Also means if you are planning on riding any of the route (e.g. as part of an etape) you can see how you compare (and then go and have a little cry!)
Enty - on 01 Jul 2012
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Thread title should say 'contains spoilers'
>
>


I agree but you'd have to be pretty stupid to click on it and be surprised when you see the results - this is UKC.

E

Lord of Starkness - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

I wasn't thinking about me. I already knew the result -- but don't believe in giving the game away immediately.

Then again I'm one of the sad so and sos with nothing better to do who can watch it on the tellybox or t'interweb.
strathlubnaig on 02 Jul 2012 - 58ob.scansafe.net
In reply to Christheclimber: As soon as the gradient kicks in then Cavendish caves. Today's stage should suit him a lot better, being near enough flat except for the Namur bit, be good to see a proper battle between him and Griepel who I think is a better rider all in.
balmybaldwin - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to strathlubnaig:

The speed that Gripel was putting in on the fornt ofthe bunch before the run in to yesterdays finish was amazing.

It will be interesting to see what the "New" Cav is like at today's finish
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> Strava are doing a segment of the day coverage of the TDF: http://app.strava.com/tour-de-france-segment-of-the-day
>
> A few of the TDF riders are uploading their rides for the day. Also means if you are planning on riding any of the route (e.g. as part of an etape) you can see how you compare (and then go and have a little cry!)

I can openly find Ten Dam - http://app.strava.com/pros/laurenstendam

Are there any others?

Alan
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
> Thread title should say 'contains spoilers'
>


I have updated the title.

Alan
balmybaldwin - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Not yet, for the Giro it took a little while for there to be more riders posting regularly. (I think some save up a few days riding and do it on the rest days)

For the early stages where they are pretty much in the bunch one is enough to give you an idea of the pace though.
Christheclimber - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to Lord of Starkness)
> [...]

> I have updated the title.

Thanks Alan.
Sorry if I gave away the result yesterday.
Lord of Starkness - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Things are still to warm up yet in the peloton -- 45.5k to go and the break still has about 2.30.
Darren Jackson - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to Lord of Starkness:

Cav!... 21 wins.
In reply to Darren Jackson:

What an awesome performance!

Lord of Starkness - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

It answers Cav's critics who reckoned he's struggle without a train against the likes of Greipel and the other pure sprinters, particularly as he's shed about 4kg to help him on the hillier days.

I'd not picked him in my fantasy team today, but still managed 2,4,6 plus a couple more in the top 20 ;-).

I'd be really surprised by a Cav win tomorrow.
balmybaldwin - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Great solo job by Cav today, think it may be one for Sagan tomorrow, and a chance it could have a few break ups that might effect the GC.

I'm going over on Le Shuttle tomorrow to watch on Mont Lambert just outside Boulogne... anyone else going over?
Christheclimber - on 02 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)

>
> I'm going over on Le Shuttle tomorrow to watch on Mont Lambert just outside Boulogne... anyone else going over?

Have a great time wish I was going.
I need to watch today's race on ITV catch up as I missed it all.
Well done Cav. Sagan is a strong rider.
Calder - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

I spent all day avoiding this thread, only to hear the result on the radio on the way home. Balls.

Lesson learnt...
fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to strathlubnaig:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) As soon as the gradient kicks in then Cavendish caves. Today's stage should suit him a lot better, being near enough flat except for the Namur bit, be good to see a proper battle between him and Griepel who I think is a better rider all in.

what makes you say Greipel is a better rider all in? he was in the same HTC team as Cav for several years and they didnt pick him in the big races, why would that be then?

Hes a strong sprinter but hes not half the rider that Cav is, IMO
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In reply to fxceltic:

I am not sure what it is with the Cav knockers. There seems to be a tendency to belittle him and suggest that he isn't as good as before yet, on the evidence of yesterday, he is better than ever.

I think he is really enjoying being in the position he is now. He seems much more relaxed than when the entire team sunk or swam on his success. He described everything he does as the 'bonus rider' yesterday showing that he doesn't feel the pressure to achieve that he did before.

I also think he made a conscious decision to do the last part of the finish yesterday on his own maybe to prove how good he is. If you watch the run-in, far from there being no Sky riders there, Eisel and Boasson-Hagen are in fact in front of him on the other side of the leading riders and Eisel is searching around looking for him. Not a full train admittedly but as many riders as several of the other sprinter support teams.

Alan
Mike Highbury - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
>
> I am not sure what it is with the Cav knockers. There seems to be a tendency to belittle him and suggest that he isn't as good as before yet, on the evidence of yesterday, he is better than ever.

It seems to go hand in hand with the fellating of Wiggins. The Guardian is full of it and G-d knows this forum too, I'm afraid to say.

fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
>
> I am not sure what it is with the Cav knockers.

I think its just the fashionable thing to say at the minute Alan, along with people knocking anything Team SKY related.

fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH)
> [...]
>
> It seems to go hand in hand with the fellating of Wiggins. The Guardian is full of it and G-d knows this forum too, I'm afraid to say.

this is totally reasonable in the circumstances. Wiggins is, along with Evans, a standout favourite, which for a British rider is an almost inconceivable situation. I dont blame the press for making a big deal of it, in fact its to be applauded.
The Guardian is the most knowledgeable of the mainstream papers in the cycling arena, and they are just reporting on the situation as it is.
thegreatape on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
>
> I am not sure what it is with the Cav knockers.

Peta Todd?
Mike Highbury - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
> [...]
>
> this is totally reasonable in the circumstances. Wiggins is, along with Evans, a standout favourite, which for a British rider is an almost inconceivable situation. I dont blame the press for making a big deal of it, in fact its to be applauded.
> The Guardian is the most knowledgeable of the mainstream papers in the cycling arena, and they are just reporting on the situation as it is.

Knowledgeable and even-handed enough to report the Spring classics in similar detail?
fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Mike Highbury: They are a mainstream paper, they give over as much space to these things as (they feel) there is a market for.
They do report on the spring classics, which other papers dont. If you want/ need more reporting there are plenty of specialist media outlets available that Im sure we all read.
fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Mike Highbury: also, for most people le Tour is the "big one" so its fair enough to do more detailed reports on it. More casual fans are more interested in it than the classics and even most "proper" fans are probably more interested in it than say the ronde/ msr/ P-R or whatever other race you care to name.
Lord of Starkness - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
> [...]
>
> The Guardian is the most knowledgeable of the mainstream papers in the cycling arena


Always thought that accolade went to the Torygraph -- it was certainly the case in the 60's and 70's when other papers ignored the sport. (I only get the saturday version nowadays so can't comment on its weekday coverage)
Enty - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> More casual fans are more interested in it than the classics and even most "proper" fans are probably more interested in it than say the ronde/ msr/ P-R or whatever other race you care to name.

I'd rather have Magnus Becksted's palmares than Lance's

True story ;-)

E
Mike Highbury - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury) also, for most people le Tour is the "big one" so its fair enough to do more detailed reports on it. More casual fans are more interested in it than the classics and even most "proper" fans are probably more interested in it than say the ronde/ msr/ P-R or whatever other race you care to name.

I was going to say that you cannot really believe that but I see that Enty got there first.
Quiddity - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

> I am not sure what it is with the Cav knockers. There seems to be a tendency to belittle him and suggest that he isn't as good as before yet, on the evidence of yesterday, he is better than ever.
> I think he is really enjoying being in the position he is now. He seems much more relaxed than when the entire team sunk or swam on his success.

Agree. I imagine he is also enjoying the extra challenge. As he has said, when he has a leadout train he feels 'he should win' - ie. it is his race to lose. The sort of finish we saw yesterday seemed to really test his skills as a rider as well as just his power output. To my casual observation it seemed like it was basically won on all of the decision making that got him onto Greipel's wheel and right up to the point where he put the hammer down, as much as it did on the sprint to the line. Though I loved watching the textbook execution of the HTC train, yesterdays sort of finish definitely makes for exciting viewing.
In reply to Quiddity:

Did anyone just see that on the intermediate sprint!

Cav was blocked by van Hommel but then accelerated past him and gave an Armstrong like glance back over his shoulder.

Alan
Mike Highbury - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to Quiddity)
>
> Did anyone just see that on the intermediate sprint!
>
> Cav was blocked by van Hommel but then accelerated past him and gave an Armstrong like glance back over his shoulder.
>
> Alan

Yes and get a grip Alan, there's many more and finer cyclists to reference than LA. If truth be told, LA would probably have spat on vH as he went past.
Quiddity - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Was just going to say. Cav gets boxed in, finds space and then casually comes past Sagan, Greipel, Renshaw and Goss (anyone else?) like they were basically standing still. Mental.
fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH)
> [...]
>
> Yes and get a grip Alan, there's many more and finer cyclists to reference than LA. If truth be told, LA would probably have spat on vH as he went past.

i see youre in one of your argumentative moods this afternoon Mike...
fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
> [...]
>
> I was going to say that you cannot really believe that but I see that Enty got there first.

since neither you me nor enty can claim to actually "know" one way or the other what most "proper" fans prefer (i prefaced my comment with "probably"), then Im not sure why you would think that.

I consider myself a fairly hardcore fan, but even I prefer the tour to almost every other race, except perhaps the Giro, and P-R as the best of the classics.

Its another one of those fashionable things to say you dont like the tour anymore, like quoting a now very successful musicians first, largely unheard, album is better than their second more successful one. Its "cool" and in someway is thought to enhance your credibility, when really its often bullshit.
RBK - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
> [...]
>
> i see youre in one of your argumentative moods this afternoon Mike...

It is a bit argumentative but I agree completely, it's like the commentary at the Dauphine that likened Sky to US Postal, the implication was that they were cheating whether it was intended or not.
Mike Highbury - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Mike Highbury)
> [...]
>
> i see youre in one of your argumentative moods this afternoon Mike...

And work is going so well
fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: back to the original point of the thread, Hesjedals just gone down...
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fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic: siustou has abandoned after another crash, not ideal for wiggo...
fxceltic on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic: although actually cav will likely suffer most as resources are diverted further in wiggins direction
In reply to Mike Highbury:
> Yes and get a grip Alan, there's many more and finer cyclists to reference than LA. If truth be told, LA would probably have spat on vH as he went past.

Well I was referring to the famous glance back to Ullrich moment of some tour - 2002 ish?

Alan
In reply to Christheclimber: wiggins in the crash at end?
In reply to grumpybearpantsclimbinggoat:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) wiggins in the crash at end?

Looks like he has got the 3km rule in his favour since they have just come up with the GC and he is still at 7 seconds.

Alan
dudders - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Does anyone know what a killermeter is?
whodared - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Lord of Starkness:
Hi - there was plenty of Tour coverage in the Guardian and Observer during the 1960s and 1970s. See here: http://bit.ly/Nirbyc
Christheclimber - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to whodared:

Sagan is a good strong rider he did well today and looks like a green jersey contender
Cancellara still in yellow and Brad is still second.
Need to look at tomorrows stage.
tim000 - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to fxceltic) siustou has abandoned after another crash, not ideal for wiggo...

siustou has broke his leg :-( i think cav gave the other guy more than a look . renshaw had a go at him as well after the spint. but cav had the class to do it during the sprint :-)
Christheclimber - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

STAGE 4 tomorrow is 214.5km from Abbeville to Rouen. It looks like it will be a sprinters race again.
Enty - on 03 Jul 2012
In reply to dudders:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) Does anyone know what a killermeter is?

Yes, when there's 1k to go try hanging on Cav's wheel - that's a f*ckin killermeter....

E
balmybaldwin - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Was watching today from Mont Lambert. Excellent day out in france :-)

The field was seriously stretched out, saw the pack swallow the KOM and spit him out the back, and an awful lot of blood and torn shorts in the trailing groups.

Sounds like Hoogerland had another close encounter with a fence as well!
fxceltic on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin: there was quite a few nearly hit that final roundabout on the right hand turn before the final drag up to the finish!

possible cross winds and echelons today...
balmybaldwin - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:

Judging by the wind on the coast, and the way the day tripping riders were getting blown around on the way back to Calais last night, I would be surprised if we didn't see splits in the field today, but when they turn inland they should get a tail wind that ought to help bring it back together
Christheclimber - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Todays stage has started.
I am unable to watch it at work.
How do you keep up with what is happening?
Any ideas
JamButty - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: live updates on BBC, Yahoo and ITV as far as I know.
a lakeland climber on 04 Jul 2012
graeme jackson - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Todays stage has started.
> I am unable to watch it at work.
> How do you keep up with what is happening?
> Any ideas

Live coverage on http://live.cyclingnews.com/ click 'live coverage'

yorkshireman - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
>
> Todays stage has started.
> I am unable to watch it at work.
> How do you keep up with what is happening?
> Any ideas

@itvcycling on Twitter is good if you're that way inclined. Obviously great for when you're on the move and want regular updates pushed to you.

Or work from home like me :)

Have the tv on downstairs where I can hear it - I can ignore Paul Sherwen reading from his press info about 14c Normandy castles and boat rigging, and pop down for the exciting bits!
Aly - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: I've got a couple of questions I'm sure someone on here can answer:

Firstly, what are the rules with regards to drafting behind team cars. I'd always assumed it was illegal, but a blind eye was turned if riders were drafting back into the pack after a crash. Is this right?

Secondly, do the "important" riders such as the GC contenders use heavier puncture resistant tyres on the flat bunch stages? It's just that there are always going to be several punctures per stage, but if someone like Wiggo or Evans got a flat in the final 15km with the bunch doing 50kph they'd never get back onto it and would potentially lose minutes...?
Aly - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Aly: Noooo! Credit to Greipel there but I have a feeling that Cav woiuld have smashed that one. It's a bit like watching the Giro all over again.
balmybaldwin - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Nasty Crash just under 3 K out today, clash of wheels, saw Cav hit the deck hard, but he has ridden across the line... haven't seen Wiggo yet but there were a few Sky riders on the Deck
In reply to Aly:
> Secondly, do the "important" riders such as the GC contenders use heavier puncture resistant tyres on the flat bunch stages? It's just that there are always going to be several punctures per stage, but if someone like Wiggo or Evans got a flat in the final 15km with the bunch doing 50kph they'd never get back onto it and would potentially lose minutes...?

If such a thing existed, you'd think they'd all use it though.

What might happen is one of the helpers would swap bikes although they would still be likely to lose time I think.

Alan
balmybaldwin - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Griepel took the win convincingly, not a lot of sprinters left in the lead group after the crash though
fxceltic on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin: so f-cked off, had cav in my fantasy team.
balmybaldwin - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:

Sounds like Wiggo got stuck behind, but not involved in crash.

Cav looked to have taken a serious hit to the head as his helmet was only just held together they are also reporting he's hurt his shoulder, but it didn't look serious as he rode in. Bernie Eisel didn't look too good either, looks like he hit the curb.

Don't think anyone was seriously injured thankfully
bobbybin - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Looks like Peta isn't very happy!!

Cavendish is down. And that is what happens when you take a a man that is so harshly marked to the tour without protection. I am not attacking anyone. Sky is an incredible team, one I support fiercely but this is my family and risks need to be addressed

Mark Cavendish's partner Peta Todd on Twitter
See You Next Wednesday on 04 Jul 2012 - ipf.co.uk
In reply to bobbybin:

He was perfectly capable of crashing regularly when he had eight riders working for hom
Tiberius - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to bobbybin:

It's a dangerous game, he's not going to get through the next 10 years without a few more crashes. I guess his partner is always going to be nervous, but really that's the same as the partner of any soldier, policeman, fireman and a million other people would feel.
Liam M - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
>
> Sounds like Wiggo got stuck behind, but not involved in crash.
>

He passed us at about 1.5k to go behind Knees looking fairly relaxed in the back of the third group, and not chasing hard ( Evans was in the first group), so not involved and not expecting to lose time it seems.

> Cav looked to have taken a serious hit to the head as his helmet was only just held together they are also reporting he's hurt his shoulder, but it didn't look serious as he rode in. Bernie Eisel didn't look too good either, looks like he hit the curb.
>

Cav looked full of road rash, but more pissed off than anything. Eisel looked in a little more discomfort, but hopefully nothing too serious. Still haven't seen the incident though - has any video of the footage appeared on line?

paget - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Aly: The full team stops, the closet in size donates the bike, that's pre arranged and they team time trial them back o minimise the time loss.
Nigel Modern on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M: Cav - Nasty crash and he fell heavily but I think all he broke was his radio

I agree with post which said he looked more pee'd off than anything...might be a bit stiff tomorrow tho'
balmybaldwin - on 04 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin)
> [...] Still haven't seen the incident though - has any video of the footage appeared on line?

http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/cavendish-caught-in-big-stage-4-crash/
Tiberius - on 05 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> Cav looked full of road rash, but more pissed off than anything.

I was waiting for the interview...Cav is so much fun when he's pissed off :)

Great quote in the papers this morning from Brailsford 'I can't repeat what they said when they got back to the team bus' :)
Toby S - on 05 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
> (In reply to Liam M)
> [...]
>
> I was waiting for the interview...Cav is so much fun when he's pissed off :)
>
> Great quote in the papers this morning from Brailsford 'I can't repeat what they said when they got back to the team bus' :)

His face says it all: http://www.teamsky.com/gallery/0,27401,25884_7869471,00.html#photo=16 :-)
fxceltic on 05 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: SKY are forming a train today and riding more prominently at the front, a good decision I think, after the last few days.
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) SKY are forming a train today and riding more prominently at the front, a good decision I think, after the last few days.

It looks like all tactics went out of the window when they realised they might not catch the four leaders in time which meant Cav had to go way earlier than normal and he couldn't keep it going at the finish. Good win for Gripel under the circumstances but he had a better train again.

I reckon Cav is going to be an angry man tonight!

Alan
tim000 - on 05 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH: cav didn`t seem to sprint . stayed seated , maybe his hand was hurting too much . he said it was his main injury from the crash.
Christheclimber - on 05 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Anpther very good win for Gripel being able to perform like this two days running. Not sure on the Sky thinking, were they protecting Brad? Gripel did really well to avoid the crash with 3k to go.
link - on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:

> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH) cav didn`t seem to sprint . stayed seated , maybe his hand was hurting too much . he said it was his main injury from the crash.

A crash does funny things to the body the next day, often you lack power. He did well to ride cleverly for placings. I'm enjoying seeing Greipel gurning for wins.

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Christheclimber - on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to link:

Who do you fancy today.
Hope the conditions are better than here in not so sunny Manchester, I am considering building an arc.
fxceltic on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: since I couldnt afford to waste a transfer i have had to stick with Cav in my fantasy team, so Im desperately hoping its him.

The finish should suit him better than yesterdays slightly uphill drag and I dont think the teams will leave it quite so long to chase todays inevitable break down either.
link - on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

I would love to see Goss take a win. Seems to have been pushing too big a gear yesterday and he hasn't had luck on his side prior to that. I think Cav will take it though barring a crash or a mechanical.

Currently in Macclesfield, when you have built your arc could you come and pick me up? A new lake has formed outside the office!
Tiberius - on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

I'm going with Cav today, but then I thought he would get it yesterday until well into the final 1K.
Christheclimber - on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to link:

Sorry it's been too wet to get to the shed to start the arc. The cat has just come in looking like a drowned rat.

Cav did not do so well today but it was a great sprint finish from Sagan beating Greipel. That makes it 3/7 wins for Sagan.
fxceltic on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Cav bummed by yet another crash, becoming a bit ridiculous now
In reply to Christheclimber:

I don't think Cav was caught in that crash. Dutch TV said he got a puncture and then dropped back since he couldn't catch them after that.

Bit of a disappointing three days for Cav really after a good start.

Alan
Christheclimber - on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Cheers for that I was wondering why he was so far back.
tim000 - on 06 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: jus heard that griepel dislocated his shoulerin the crash and still came second , respect.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/533781/dislocated-shoulder-hinders-greipel-sprint.html
balmybaldwin - on 07 Jul 2012
tim000 - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:wiggo could be in yellow tonight . i fancy a break to stay away though . tommy v anyone?
balmybaldwin - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Sounds like Ryder has abandoned over night :-(

Looking forward to seeing who can cut it up todays climbs
tim000 - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: dave z on the front . looks like dan martin might be up for a stage win .
tim000 - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: 5k to go , 4 sky riders on the front . evans on his own but still there.
tim000 - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: schlek and basso off the back .
sharpie530 - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:

What a finish!
tim000 - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: great riding by sky :-)
sleavesley on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: What a stage and display by team sky! That is all.
danm - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to sleavesley: Wow! Sky totally bossed that stage, hopefully Knobali will come to regret saying he doesn't rate Wiggins.....
bobbybin - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Can't believe how the field were totally blown apart by a shortish cat 1 climb. Big day tomorrow, Evans looks isolated. What a first week.
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shaggypops - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to bobbybin: In reply to bobbybin: I know i'm hijacking, but what does "clipped off" mean in this comment from Stephen Roche.

Wiggins has become more of a leader who is willing to stamp his authority on a race. We saw him at the Dauphiné when he got his team to chase down a group and when they got to within 20 seconds he just clipped off himself. That was a great show of form."
thermal_t - on 07 Jul 2012
Awesome riding from Sky, so pleased for Froome, deserved the spoils for his efforts.
JLS on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to shaggypops:


Clipped off - it just means broke away from the group - in that case to bridge across the remaining gap.
shaggypops - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS: Cheers for that
JLS on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:

Anyone got "Rein Taaramae" in their fantasy team?

'Never 'eard of 'im... there is always someone who pops up from nowhere as a Tour contender.

Has he got any pedigree? Is he likely to still be up there at the end?

Christheclimber - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t:
> Awesome riding from Sky, so pleased for Froome, deserved the spoils for his efforts.

Just watched the highlights great result for Sky. Froome and Brad did were great. Come on Brad!
David Hooper - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Sky absolutely dominated that finish - like a bunch of robots.

Amm I right in thinking Chris Froome peeled off to let Wiggo get the finish,then Evans came up, Wiggo couldnt get him and Froome put in that superb effort to pull in front again.

Pretty incredible seeing he was front man nd probably thought his role was over and then pulling that performance out of the bag - stunning stuff.
andy - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to David Hooper: I thought Wiggo looked very comfortable - Evans was out of the saddle trying to catch Froome and Wiggins just stayed in the saddle and followed him home.
Liam M - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to JLS)
>
> Anyone got "Rein Taaramae" in their fantasy team?
>
> 'Never 'eard of 'im... there is always someone who pops up from nowhere as a Tour contender.
>
> Has he got any pedigree? Is he likely to still be up there at the end?

I don't believe he's without history - he's taken pro tour white jerseys before. I'm not sure about grand tours though, but as a youngster he may have a few years to peak.
Run_Ross_Run - on 07 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

1st stage ever of the Tour for me and the wife, amazing.

Big well done to Wiggins and the rest of the sky team.

The way the sky team are now working I reckon more Brit success.
fxceltic on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to JLS)
>
> Anyone got "Rein Taaramae" in their fantasy team?
>
> 'Never 'eard of 'im... there is always someone who pops up from nowhere as a Tour contender.
>
> Has he got any pedigree? Is he likely to still be up there at the end?

Taaramae is a good young rider. 2nd to Rolland in white jersey comp last year iirc. can climb and time trial. will be a gc contender.
La Shamster on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to David Hooper:

Brad didn't need to win the stage all he had to do was stick with Evans and not lose any time to him knowing that he had got yellow. Froomey won't be given a crack at yellow unless something happens to Brad so a stage win was a great trophy for all the work he will be doing in the next 2 weeks to ensure Brad wins the overall GC. And you are right he had the legs to go past Evans. Froomey will have his day and reward in the future - and possibly more stage wins this tour.

A perfect double whammy for Sky the stage and the maillot jaune.

La Sham













Jack Gillespie - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
> Well it all starts tomorrow with the Prologue in Liège.
> Who do you fancy to win the tour? Can Bradley do it, Cav has said he will forfeit stage wins to support Bradley.
>
> UKC Edit - Title updated

once i get my blood tranfusion and a few lines of charlie i reckon i'm in with a chance :-0
Christheclimber - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:

Brad still in yellow though it looks like Evans is going to be a contender.
andy - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Shame we didn;t get to see what happened when Evans kicked on near the end - when they cut away Wiggo was on the front looking to pull him back and he and Van de Velde looked to have 30m, then when they finished they were all together.
tim000 - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: just before they cut away to the winner wiggo was on the front . so looks like he pulled it back . french TV following a french stage winner. cant blame them really.
shaggypops - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: ozzy press were a wee bit deluded after stage 7. Wonder if they will say the same today after Brad got pipped again by Cadel

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/tour-de-france/follow-the-action-from-stage-7-of-the-2012-tour-de-...
Graham Mck on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to shaggypops:

This is apparently from a press conference after today's stage. Top man...none of this "i've never tested positive....."


Wiggins, asked about those who accuse him of doping: "I say they're just f*cking wankers. I cannot be doing with people like that.."It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives..It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of shit, rather than get off their arses in their own lives..and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that's ultimately it. C*nts."
andy - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to shaggypops:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) ozzy press were a wee bit deluded after stage 7. Wonder if they will say the same today after Brad got pipped again by Cadel
>
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/tour-de-france/follow-the-action-from-stage-7-of-the-2012-tour-de-...

Weird. Wiggo was just sat in the saddle following his wheel - never looked remotely under pressure yesterday.

I thought they all looked a bit more weary today, but there's a very definite "premier league" of riders emerging.

TT tomorrow - fascinating stuff.
andy - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to Graham Mck: According to the Herald and Tribune the word was "cut".

I bet it wasn't...

And nice dig at the tennis - "it only lasts an hour and a half...".
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thermal_t - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to Graham Mck:
> (In reply to shaggypops)
>
> This is apparently from a press conference after today's stage. Top man...none of this "i've never tested positive....."
>
>
> Wiggins, asked about those who accuse him of doping: "I say they're just f*cking wankers. I cannot be doing with people like that.."It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can't ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives..It's easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of shit, rather than get off their arses in their own lives..and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something. And that's ultimately it. C*nts."

Awesome...press training is going well!

In all seriousness though, I mistakenly looked on the cycle news forum last night and the people on there make me sick, they're not fans of cycling, they just want to rip it apart. The only way to not mark yourself as a doper to the "armchair doping testers" is to never win anything. Tw*ts, the lot of them.
andy - on 08 Jul 2012
danm - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

There's a vocal subset of hardcore cycling enthusiasts who will look for any opportunity to deride Wiggins and Sky. They assume that the team are doping because they cannot stand the fact that they are doing so well. They hate them because of their background coming from the track - road race snobs despise track riders as some form of pond life. Sky have brought new methods and expertise into the sport, again this is hated and feared. Finally, the large amount of money and professionalism associated with Sky is something the old school don't like.

I find it refreshing that Wiggins showed that he isn't some corporate robot, and that he is passionate about his sport and is willing to defend himself and his team robustly. Chapeau!
thermal_t - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to danm:
> (In reply to andy)
>
> There's a vocal subset of hardcore cycling enthusiasts who will look for any opportunity to deride Wiggins and Sky. They assume that the team are doping because they cannot stand the fact that they are doing so well. They hate them because of their background coming from the track - road race snobs despise track riders as some form of pond life. Sky have brought new methods and expertise into the sport, again this is hated and feared. Finally, the large amount of money and professionalism associated with Sky is something the old school don't like.
>
> I find it refreshing that Wiggins showed that he isn't some corporate robot, and that he is passionate about his sport and is willing to defend himself and his team robustly. Chapeau!

Very well said!
Alan Taylor - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to danm: Has anyone got a video link?
andy - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to danm: I can't remember the numbers, but apparently even though Sky look amazingly strong they're going up these climbs way slower than in the Pantani days - which, given the level of detail and professionalism they bring to their preparation you wouldn't expect if they're on the same "nutrition" as they were back then.

No - I think it's amazingly detailed preparation and dedication.

And with Murray losing there's no-one (til the Limpicks at least) to stand in Wiggo's way at SPOTY if he does take yellow in Paris!
coinneach - on 08 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

Watched the highlights tonight with my batty Mother In Law who was dead impressed that the cyclists were going " just as fast as those motorbikes" and then saw the time on a church steeple clock and tried to work out the time difference between France and the UK ( I didn't dare tell her that they were in Switzerland or I'd still be there!)
Tiberius - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to David Hooper:
> Amm I right in thinking Chris Froome peeled off to let Wiggo get the finish,then Evans came up, Wiggo couldnt get him and Froome put in that superb effort to pull in front again.

Probably he just peeled off because he had 'done his job', which was to take wiggo up the mountain. But then he realised that he had enough left to get the stage victory.

Neither Wiggo nor Evans were really bothered about stage victories, it's just about overall time for them, but a stage win by Evans or Wiggins may have given him a psychological boost.

Froome may have allowed Wiggins to take the stage, but there's no way he would allow Evans if he had the ability to take it.

Interesting to see Evans being agressive this year. Although he left his attack until very late yesterday. If Frank Schlek could keep up with those people on the descent then they probably weren't pushing it much.
In reply to Tiberius:
> Interesting to see Evans being agressive this year.

I think he is being aggressive because he has to be. He knows he won't beat Wiggo in the time trials so he has to pick up a minute or two elsewhere to give himself a chance. Last year his closest challenger was Schlek-A after Contador had virtually ruled himself out in the first week and he knew he could afford to give him a fair bit of time before the time trial.

Alan
Tiberius - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Yes, but in previous years he's not been aggressive even when he needed to be...well, only with people who stepped on his dog :)
The New NickB - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

What the haters on the cycling news forum seem to be ignoring is that the times on big climbs are down by about 11-12% compared to Pantani and Armstrong, despite developments in training, nutrition and bike technology. Sky look impressive, but compared to a slower peloton.
Mr Fuller on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to The New NickB: Yeah. And they forget that a couple of the fast rivals are not here this year: Contador and Andy Schleck. There's no denying that they would have been right up there yesterday and the day before. Without them here, maybe Wiggins and Evans do look a bit good.
Ian Broome - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
perhaps the tighter doping and drug checks are bringing the average fittness to a near human level? and not how is he not on drugs...?

I would love to be a fly on the wall and see what actually goes on or doesn't.
Tiberius - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Mr Fuller:
> ...forget that a couple of the fast rivals are not here this year: Contador and Andy Schleck...Without them here, maybe Wiggins and Evans do look a bit good.

So, basically what we're saying is that Wiggins is not as good as a dopped up Contador? Yeah, I'll go with that.
In reply to Ian Broome:

Classic Brad rant yesterday - http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/wiggins-takes-aim-at-doping-accusers/

They just played it on ITV4 live coverage and didn't bleep out the word 'arse' but did get rid of most of the rest of it!

Alan
Tiberius - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Cav always gave a good interview when he was annoyed, seems Brad has been taking lessons from him :)
JLS on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:

Van Garderen beats Cancellara's time at the first time check.

Can Cancellara be beaten?
Liam M - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to Tiberius)
>
> Van Garderen beats Cancellara's time at the first time check.
>
> Can Cancellara be beaten?

And at the second, but it's very close.
manwithacam - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to The New NickB: To me that is excellent evidence that Evans and Wiggins are clean, but there is other evidence, such as the attitude of these riders and culture around them and in the teams. I would be genuinely amazed if I found out Wiggins has doped, as I would Cavendish. Slightly less so Evans, but only cos I havent seen as much of his personality. My strong feeling is that he is clean too. Respect to these great racers.
JLS on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:

Nibali 52 seconds down on Froome at only the first time check!

End of his Tour challenge?
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JLS on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:

Looks like Wiggins and Froome are going to mop the floor with the rest of the field...
balmybaldwin - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:

Wiggo 1 minute up on Evans after time check 1, looks like froome will be ahead of evans in GC at end of the day
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin: this display from team sky is only going to get the dopage gossip mongers all hot and sweaty again Im afraid.

in the meantime I have to say i really like brads helmet... fnaar fnaar.
balmybaldwin - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Froome finishes 21 seconds ahead of Cancellara!
Quiddity - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:

Froome 20 seconds faster than Cancellara. Amazing.
thermal_t - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to balmybaldwin) this display from team sky is only going to get the dopage gossip mongers all hot and sweaty again Im afraid.
>
> in the meantime I have to say i really like brads helmet... fnaar fnaar.

B*llocks to them! Can't see Cadel coming back from this, especially with another ITT to go.

The New NickB - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to middlemarker:
> (In reply to The New NickB) To me that is excellent evidence that Evans and Wiggins are clean, but there is other evidence, such as the attitude of these riders and culture around them and in the teams. I would be genuinely amazed if I found out Wiggins has doped, as I would Cavendish. Slightly less so Evans, but only cos I havent seen as much of his personality. My strong feeling is that he is clean too. Respect to these great racers.

My thoughts as well.
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to middlemarker)
> [...]
>
> My thoughts as well.

me too. I must admit to having some concerns about Froome, though i would concede (unlike the "haters") thats a gut feel and not based on any evidence.
balmybaldwin - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Evans finishes 53:07

Keeps second?
Christheclimber - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin:

Go Brad go!!
balmybaldwin - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Wiggo 51:24
Froome 51:59
Hat Dude on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

just come up on the TdF site that Wiggins is riding a 56 chainring!

With those skinny legs an all!
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to balmybaldwin: that is how to absolutely crunch a TT
MJH - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude: That is monstrously large...larger than Ullrich used to ride IIRC.
Christheclimber - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude:

Great time trial giving Brad his first Stage win and a good lead over Evans over all. Chris Froome in third.
JLS on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

>"Chris Froome in third."

But not for too long I suspect...
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS: I'd say the clinic thread on cycling news forums is going into meltdown right about now
RBK - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic: I suspect you're right but I'm trying not to look. What I don't understand is why Sky employ Leinders, it plays into the hands of the cynics and there is no apparently rational explanation for them doing it, there are plenty of doctors they could use after all. Personally I think Wiggins is clean but Froome has looked dodgy ever since the Vuelta I'm afraid.
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK:
> (In reply to fxceltic) I suspect you're right but I'm trying not to look. What I don't understand is why Sky employ Leinders, it plays into the hands of the cynics and there is no apparently rational explanation for them doing it, there are plenty of doctors they could use after all. Personally I think Wiggins is clean but Froome has looked dodgy ever since the Vuelta I'm afraid.

agree with all of that, the Leinders thing is inexplicable really. I havent got a problem with Brad going postal over the twitter/ forum dickheads, its probably ill advised but I dont think he generally goes in for the PR thing, cant say i blame him.
Its the level of bile (and unsubstantiated drivel) in the clinic I cant cope with. One or two posters basically just reduce themselves to personal insults when asked for actual substantiated evidence of dopage.
MJH - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK:
> Personally I think Wiggins is clean but Froome has looked dodgy ever since the Vuelta I'm afraid.

<<Shakes my head in amazement>>

Why??? He has always been a talented rider and particularly climber. Now he is on a team which is good at TT he has learnt that skill.
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bobbybin - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: In what way has he been looking dodgy
dale1968 - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to bobbybin: he talks funny, and come to think of it he walks with a funny gait, must be guilty..
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to RBK)
> [...]
>
> <<Shakes my head in amazement>>
>
> Why??? He has always been a talented rider and particularly climber. Now he is on a team which is good at TT he has learnt that skill.

until last year hes not been a proven TT'er, the Vuelta was a surprise to basically everybody and now hes smashed FC by over 20 secs today. I dont think you learn to TT that well in a year, especially when you are meant to be a climber.

Im not saying hes guilty, Im staunchly in the innocent until proven guilty camp and I hate all the gossip BS, but it has to be said his performances are LITERALLY staggering. To suggest they arent is to stick your head in the sand. You can be staggered without being convinced of guilt.

BW, fair enough, hes always been a specialist in the TT.

I do think that SKY, as a self proclaimed clean team, should publish their blood values, and the Leinders thing is still odd.
Quiddity - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:

What's the thing with Leinders?
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Quiddity: dodgy cycling doctor, was at rabo bank for years during a time when they were doping
Quiddity - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:

thanks
fxceltic on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Quiddity: should have added that he is working with SKY now.

cycling news forums are in meltdown by the way, as we thought. I can hear the screeching from here.
danm - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:

Quick question - if you wanted to hire a team doctor, with bags of experience of nursing riders through a Grand Tour, would any of them have a totally clean record? Have other teams gone for doctors from outside the sport, in order to show a clean break with the past?
tim000 - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: re froome , he has had some serious health issues in the past . so never had a good run at it til now . had a few problems earlies this year but seems ok now .
Kipper - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:
> re froome ... had a few problems earlies this year but seems ok now .

Or even better than OK if some forums (mentioned above) are to be believed.

MJH - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to MJH)
> [...]
>
> until last year hes not been a proven TT'er, the Vuelta was a surprise to basically everybody and now hes smashed FC by over 20 secs today. I dont think you learn to TT that well in a year, especially when you are meant to be a climber.

He won the UCI B TT a few years back. Plus in grand tours:

2008 stage 4 TDF 29K, 33rd
2008 stage 16 TDF, 53K, 16th
2009 stage 10 Giro, 62K, 34th
2009 stage 21 Giro, 14.5K, 32nd
2010 stage 2 Giro, 2nd
2010 stage 16 Giro mountain TT, 39th
2011 stage 12 Vuelta, 2nd

UK national TT champs 2010 he was beaten by Brad by about 1 min on a longer course.

So not exactly that much of a bolt from the blue. Basically the more you watch today's stage the more you realise how made for Wiggo and Froome it was - enough bits of climbing to slow down Spartacus (who still looked a bit off form).
Enty - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> Basically the more you watch today's stage the more you realise how made for Wiggo and Froome it was - enough bits of climbing to slow down Spartacus (who still looked a bit off form).

Yes. No one's mention the possibility of FC having a bad day.

E

RBK - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to MJH)
> [...]
>
> until last year hes not been a proven TT'er, the Vuelta was a surprise to basically everybody and now hes smashed FC by over 20 secs today. I dont think you learn to TT that well in a year, especially when you are meant to be a climber.
>
> Im not saying hes guilty, Im staunchly in the innocent until proven guilty camp and I hate all the gossip BS, but it has to be said his performances are LITERALLY staggering. To suggest they arent is to stick your head in the sand. You can be staggered without being convinced of guilt.
>
> BW, fair enough, hes always been a specialist in the TT.
>
> I do think that SKY, as a self proclaimed clean team, should publish their blood values, and the Leinders thing is still odd.

My concerns about Froome are as above, I'm definitely assuming he's clean until it's proven otherwise but I've just found a few of his key performances a little too 'supernatural' to be completely comfortable. Sky say all the right things and I trust Wiggins completely, if only they'd publish their blood values and get rid of the dodgy doctor the rest of the world might believe them as well!
MJH - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: So by that logic Teejay van Garderen must have doped as well. How about Chavanel?

Why is it a surprise that a climber can be a good TTer or vice versa? Boardman won national hill climb champs several times.

Froome's TT performance might be a surprise to those that don't follow cycling much, but he had previous.
Horse on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:

Having watched the highlights tonight the Froome performance didn't seem to surprise anyone, including David Millar.

If there is ever another Christmas Troll game "The Clinic" looks like a prime candidate for a Sloper type attack.
RBK - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH: I don't think anyone's saying Froome's not a good, and even potentially great, rider but if you managed to suspend all disbelief while he and Cobo were fighting it out on the climbs at the Vuelta you were doing better than me. Again, I really hope he's the real thing but Sky could do more to convince everyone in a climate where there is inevitable and often justified suspicion around fantastic performances.
danm - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK:

How do they compare to the other teams? Liquigas are the only one I know of who publish blood data. I'd like the UCI to make this mandatory, but until then, I don't see why Sky should have to prove their innocence. I mean, be honest, they have so much to lose from doping - it defies any logic for them to be involved. Just accept it, we finally have a team of world beaters, let's revel in it for a change.
MJH - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: But are you not just revealing your lack of knowledge of Froome because he isn't the household name that Wiggins is?

Froome's climbing ability is at least as credible as Brad's (if not more so).

It is all very well being sceptical about cycling, but given Team Sky's and Dave Brailsford's well-publicised opposition to doping it would seem unlikely.

TBH I have been surprised by how weak the Tour is this year. The slightest sustained pace on the two cat 1 climbs has reduced it to the main contenders. Is that a sign that doping is reduced?
RBK - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to danm:
> (In reply to RBK)
>
....I don't see why Sky should have to prove their innocence.

They should because when you're winning you have an opportunity to change everything for the better, to lead by example. If they adopted a policy of extreme transparency whilst beating everybody they'd be able to finally leave the problems of the past behind. It would be fantastic from a sporting point of view, beneficial in terms of further sponsorship and would hopefully come close to closing down 'The Clinic'!
MJH - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to danm: TBH what difference does publishing blood data make? Would the man on the street be any the wiser? That is why hopefully the doping authorities employ experts...

I agree with you that Sky have put together an amazingly strong team.
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MJH - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: I am not sure that Cav and Brad could be more outspoken in their dislike of dopers. Brad was the person who came out and said he didn't want DM on the UK team for the Olympics after all.
RBK - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to RBK) But are you not just revealing your lack of knowledge of Froome because he isn't the household name that Wiggins is?

You certainly need to have worked much harder to follow his career through the various illnesses but you're right, there is plenty of potential there and it could be that he has simply overcome all his difficulties at once with Sky's guidance.

>
> It is all very well being sceptical about cycling, but given Team Sky's and Dave Brailsford's well-publicised opposition to doping it would seem unlikely.
>
Agreed, I think they'd be crazy to be involved.

> TBH I have been surprised by how weak the Tour is this year. The slightest sustained pace on the two cat 1 climbs has reduced it to the main contenders. Is that a sign that doping is reduced?

I really hope so.
RBK - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to RBK) I am not sure that Cav and Brad could be more outspoken in their dislike of dopers. Brad was the person who came out and said he didn't want DM on the UK team for the Olympics after all.

Agreed, the way they've spoken out has been good for the sport but why do they tolerate working with Leinders and allowing themselves to be tainted by association?
thermal_t - on 09 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: The problem with publishing blood values is that it doesn't seem to calm the doubters down, it just gives them more to work with. You wouldn't believe the amount of fully qualified haematologists who spend their entire days on cycling forums, no wonder NHS waiting lists are what they are. To be honest, without accompanying commentary with the data (which none of the cynics would believe anyway) the data would be picked apart by the fools in "the clinic" and used to muddy the name of any cyclist foolish enough to provide it.
elsewhere on 09 Jul 2012
That was one hell of a stage today for Sky!
There will have to be some aggresive riding in the mountains to attack Wiggins and his Sky team support.
fxceltic on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to RBK) But are you not just revealing your lack of knowledge of Froome because he isn't the household name that Wiggins is?
>
> Froome's climbing ability is at least as credible as Brad's (if not more so).
>
> It is all very well being sceptical about cycling, but given Team Sky's and Dave Brailsford's well-publicised opposition to doping it would seem unlikely.
>
> TBH I have been surprised by how weak the Tour is this year. The slightest sustained pace on the two cat 1 climbs has reduced it to the main contenders. Is that a sign that doping is reduced?

before I go on, I will restate that I believe in innocence til proven guilty in Froomes case (in any riders case really but particularly SKY team), but I dont think theres too much in his past performances (apart from maybe the Vuelta last year) to suggest he had yesterdays time in his locker and thats not down to lack of prior knowledge about Froome.
I know his record and I still find yesterdays ride incredible (as was Wiggins).
fxceltic on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: > (In reply to RBK) But are you not just revealing your lack of knowledge of Froome because he isn't the household name that Wiggins is?

>You certainly need to have worked much harder to follow his career through the various illnesses but you're right, there is plenty of potential there and it could be that he has simply overcome all his difficulties at once with Sky's guidance.

maybe, I give him the benefit of the doubt

>
> It is all very well being sceptical about cycling, but given Team Sky's and Dave Brailsford's well-publicised opposition to doping it would seem unlikely.
>
>Agreed, I think they'd be crazy to be involved.

yes but you would surely say the same thing about all teams, including USPS?

> TBH I have been surprised by how weak the Tour is this year. The slightest sustained pace on the two cat 1 climbs has reduced it to the main contenders. Is that a sign that doping is reduced?

>I really hope so.

I believe it is. I also think its fair to ask some questions whilst retaining a grip on reality, unlike some in "the clinic"!

A further point that struck me reading that thread on the clinic is that surely there are libel issues in what is being said on there? Im surprised cycling news allow it to go on to the level it does?
Sir Chasm - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic: For Brutus is an honourable man.
MJH - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> but I dont think theres too much in his past performances (apart from maybe the Vuelta last year) to suggest he had yesterdays time in his locker and thats not down to lack of prior knowledge about Froome.

Look at UK TT champs 2010, Giro 2010 TT or TDF TT from 2008 - hardly poor results on longer courses.

> I know his record and I still find yesterdays ride incredible (as was Wiggins).

You see I don't for the reasons I have already outlined ie the course suited them (look how well Nibali did and he isn't reknowned for TT'ing); Martin and Cancellera are still not full fit and had bad days (does anyone really believe a fully fit FC is only just about at parity with Teejay Van Garderen?) etc

Agree with you about libellous nature of The Clinic

a lakeland climber on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:

Tony Martin abandoned today. Presumably his broken wrist is a bit much to take in to the alps.

A slightly (deliberately?) ironic name don't you think - The Clinic?

ALC
Ramblin dave - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: To butt into all this lighthearted stuff with some serious issues:
https://twitter.com/TweeterSagan

> Possible to win rest-day? #SummerOfSagan
Toby S - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:

Brilliant, I quite liked: "Call from hotel reception: on CCTV strange man in yellow jumper with mutton chop and bad language. Mr Nibbles dive under bed, cowering."
woolsack - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: It's never a rest day for the Media

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/cofidis-rider-arrested-police-raid-110812092.html

Cofidis rider Di Gregorio, who was on the Tour de France, was transferred to his hometown of Marseille.

The source added that Di Gregorio was being questioned with two other people after an investigation was opened into alleged doping substances trafficking.

Tuesday is a rest day in the race.


MJH - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave: Brilliant stuff! So many pearls of wisdom!
David Hooper - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: for some reason,the Tour has been removed from ITV 4s live afternoon broadcast,although the highlights are still on tonight.

Anyone know whyits been pulled - I hurried home especially to watch ;o(
steve456 on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to David Hooper: because it's a rest day
Calder - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to David Hooper:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) for some reason,the Tour has been removed from ITV 4s live afternoon broadcast,although the highlights are still on tonight.
>
> Anyone know whyits been pulled - I hurried home especially to watch ;o(

Unlucky!!!!!!
fxceltic on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
> [...]
>
> Look at UK TT champs 2010, Giro 2010 TT or TDF TT from 2008 - hardly poor results on longer courses.
>
> [...]

the only REALLY good result in there is the UT TT in 2010. I take your point about FC and TM (who had a broken wrist and a flat tyre, cant for the life of me understand why he persists with clinchers...), though I think TJVG is getting stronger and stronger all the time.
MJH - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic: So 2nd in a Vuelta TT beating Brad doesn't count as really good ;-)

My point is that it is not exactly an isolated result given his injury and health record. Out of the handful of grand tours he has been in his TT record isn't that poor, it certainly isn't a one off.

To put things into context - at last year's tour on stage 20 TM beat Cadel by 7 secs on a 42.5k course. Cancellera was 7th 1m42 down (behind Richie Porte among others). Van Gaarderen was 5m11 down!

I just don't think it is fair to dismiss Froome on the grounds that he has come from nowhere...
tim000 - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: maybe the reason wiggin and froome are doing so well is because they aren`t racing against a peleton full of dopers any more . the times for the climbs in the big mountains over the last couple of years are slower that in the past . there will always be the odd one who tries to get away with doping as proved by the news today , though that was for links to his previous team(astana).
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fxceltic on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to fxceltic) So 2nd in a Vuelta TT beating Brad doesn't count as really good ;-)

agreed, I referenced that one myself earlier, was just referring to the examples you gave

>
> My point is that it is not exactly an isolated result given his injury and health record. Out of the handful of grand tours he has been in his TT record isn't that poor, it certainly isn't a one off.
>
> To put things into context - at last year's tour on stage 20 TM beat Cadel by 7 secs on a 42.5k course. Cancellera was 7th 1m42 down (behind Richie Porte among others). Van Gaarderen was 5m11 down!

and that was on stage 20, Thomas De Gendt finished I think 4th (IIRC) in that stage.
TVG has greatly improved himself since then, in line with his age and experience (you could make a similar ish case for Froome I suppose)
>
> I just don't think it is fair to dismiss Froome on the grounds that he has come from nowhere...

Im not dismissing him or rushing to scream "dopage" at him either. Im simply saying that in the light of the result yesterday in particular and also saturdays stage finish, there is "slightly" more cause for suspicion than there is with Wiggins.
And this is all in relation to the screaming outrage/ discussion on "the clinic" dont forget. Its all relative.
I personally feel less certain about Froome than Wiggins, but have to admit Im without any evidence to back that up.
Someone tweeted a link last night to Froomes wattage and Vam on the vuelta TT from last year and even though his result was excellent, there was nothing unusual in his figures, so fair enough
In reply to fxceltic:
> And this is all in relation to the screaming outrage/ discussion on "the clinic" dont forget.

Is it my natural bias, or is that forum horrible to view and use compared to UKC?

Alan
Horse on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

Have you tried Singletrackworld, not to bad to look at but hugely frustrating to use compared to here.
wbo - on 10 Jul 2012
I'm rather late to this debate, but Froomes time yesterday is an improvement, but not unexpectedly so. Probably the biggest advantage Wiggo has, and the rest of Sky will then follow, is that a lot of that team have trained together with a modern plan for some years, so they can accept short term loss and doing things that are not traditional and accepted, they have not had to compromise their season doing classics et al. They have had intermediate targets, but that's ok. Once you get to a level of fitness and understanding then you can start to perform other, very challenging forms of training. (As an example this is also a factor in modern marathon running, and when we see information on how top marathon runners train compared to top western marathon runners it is rather different, but requires a lot of commitment and patience to get to the level of fitness needed to start training 'properly')

I would not also underestimate the powers of morale on top of that extra specific fitness. Two days before Sky spent the day smashing up the field, boosting their morale. The day before was no cake walk either, so they have been in control, and the others have not, so they have a signficant advantage and lack of pressure to perform.

One of the oddities of the cycling forums, apart from a penchant for training programmes from the 70's is the assumption that at some point Wiggins will have a bad day in the hills. I rather expect him to need to tough it out at some point, but every non-Sky rider in that race is probably expecting to spend the next 10 days in all sorts of distress as Sky have the steampower and morale to simply steam the pace along and destroy any significant attacks. Note the high average speed on that first bumpy stage - make it fast enough and the climbers are stuffed before the hills. I recall Telekom doing it to Alpe d'Huez some years back, and a lot of the climbing specialists couldn't even get to the front.
andy - on 10 Jul 2012
In reply to wbo: Good point(s) - I must say I don't see either Froome or Wiggins' performance as unprecedented - they've both been getting better over a medium-long period, which is sort of what you'd expect when they're riding and training with one of the richest and most well-resourced teams in the world.
thermal_t - on 10 Jul 2012
If anyone is interested, the link below has some extremely interesting commentary from some guys that know what they are on about:-

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07/tour-in-mountains-analysis-discussion.html
The New NickB - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
> [...]
>
> Is it my natural bias, or is that forum horrible to view and use compared to UKC?
>
> Alan

It is just horrible in every way Alan.
Darren Jackson - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t:
>
> If anyone is interested, the link below has some extremely interesting commentary from some guys that know what they are on about:-
>
> http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/07/tour-in-mountains-analysis-discussion.html

Cheers. A good analysis. Worth a read.

"So we can't rule anything out this way. All I will say, and I'm very confident in saying this, is that what we saw on the slopes of Les Planche des Belles Filles did not have me thinking "That's just not right, there's something not adding up". It adds up. It's exactly what you'd expect, just as I expect that when we do hit the longer HC climbs later this week, we'll see the top men ride at 5.9 to 6 W/kg, just as they have done for the last three years."
Mike Highbury - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH)
> [...]
>
> It is just horrible in every way Alan.

You have to wade through a load of shit to find a gem, a lot like UKC really.
dale1968 - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: will froome be allowed to attack for the polka dot jersey today I wonder?
JLS on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to dale1968:

>"will froome be allowed to attack for the polka dot jersey today I wonder?"

No!
Liam M - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to dale1968: Maybe they'll TTT him into it! ;)
Lord of Starkness - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:

I think there will be a concerted effort by BMC, Omega Pharma and Liquigas to get some riders into a break and for them to act as a springboard for attacks by Nibali, Evans or Vandenbrouke -- if not today then certainly on other mountain stages. The next 10 days will be fascinating racing.
fxceltic on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t: there is good analysis around the figures in this.

However I disagree with the analysis of Brads comments post sunday stage. I dont blame the guy, he wasnt swearing at the reporter, or at fans, just the absolute weasels who permanently populate places like the clinic, who as far as I can see are not actually interested in the cycling itself.
He was not railing against a question re doping, he was railing against a question that asked what he thought of these internet weasels.
In that regard, its fair play as far as Im concerned, and I fully respect his comments on monday when he refused to take the comments back, and was backed by his team.
fxceltic on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Lord of Starkness: I think nibbles will try today, bmc more likely tomorrow looking at the profiles of the respective stages.

BTW didnt we do well in yesterdays fantasy 1st stage of tour de pologne? Not...

I had a shocker in the TdF over the weekend as well, several bad choices.
Sir Chasm - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic: Internet weasels? Do they include people who say they have "concerns" about Froome's performance? You know, the weasels who snidely imply drug taking.
RBK - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Sir Chasm: There's a good article here: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/12357/Kimmage-disappointed-in-Wiggins-and-Team-Sky-over-transparen... It's not about accusing them of doping, there's no evidence of that, simply that Sky could be a lot more transparent as they originally said they would be. I'm pretty disappointed to hear that Wiggins stopped Kimmage shadowing the team as agreed, it worked for Vaughters and it would have reflected well on the team.
MJH - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: Yet for all that, Vaughters and Zabriskie (two riders always purported to be clean) are allegedly caught up in the LA/USPS scandal...

Reading PK's words I couldn't help feeling that there was a bit of getting his own back based on the snide comment BW had made about him.

Dave Brailsford has refuted/explained (not entirely convincingly) the allegations about Leinders in one of today's papers (poss Grauniad or the Times).
RBK - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH: I should have said that it worked for Garmin rather than Vaughters specifically, they are perceived to be a clean team now partly due to their transparency over the years.
Sir Chasm - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to RBK: A more cynical person than me might think it's sour grapes from Kimmage because he didn't get to be (very lucratively) embedded with Sky.
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thermal_t - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> Dave Brailsford has refuted/explained (not entirely convincingly) the allegations about Leinders in one of today's papers (poss Grauniad or the Times).

Anyone got a link to this?
thermal_t - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t:
> (In reply to MJH)
> [...]
>
> Anyone got a link to this?

Ah...found it.... http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/11/dave-brailsford-team-sky?newsfeed=true
Enty - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Sir Chasm:
> (In reply to RBK) A more cynical person than me might think it's sour grapes from Kimmage because he didn't get to be (very lucratively) embedded with Sky.

You don't have to be cynical - wtf would want Kimmage hanging round the team. It would be like having a black cloud hovvering over everything.

E
David Hooper - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: pardon my ignorance - who is Kimmidge?
Toby S - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to David Hooper:

Ex Irish Pro rider, wrote a book called 'Rough Ride' exposing doping in the peloton. I gave up on the book after about half way through as it just seemed to be a couple of hundred pages of ranting. Bessie mates with Lance Armstrong :-)
Hat Dude on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to David Hooper:

Reel him in David;-)
Enty - on 11 Jul 2012
Bjartur i Sumarhus on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude: Have to say those "behind the scenes" photos of the SKY team on the Guardian website were an eye opener. Brad Wiggins may well be "clean" but he looks like every near death smack addict I met in Cambodia...i would go as far as to say he looks ill.

Which is ridiculous if you're probably the fittest person on the planet.
Enty - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Brilliant!! Sooooooooo glad Sanchez or Scarponi didn't get that one!

E
a lakeland climber on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Game of Conkers:

Years ago I remarked on how "ill" Mark Leach looked - this was around the time of Cry Freedom - there's a very fine line between super fitness and illness and without knowing the individual it can be hard to distinguish the two.

Doesn't Wiggo have only something like 4% body fat? Basically as low as you can go without suffering serious medical complications.

ALC
Byronius Maximus - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

It was a great finish! They all looked absolutely finished and had obviously given it their all. Would have been nice to see Voigt get it but he looked wasted after bridging the gap to the lead group.
dale1968 - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Byronius Maximus: one of the slowest sprints ever! they must have been suffering, good to see..
Toby S - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

Cracking stage that. Voigt is just a beast, not bad for a 40 year old!
David Hooper - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: Wow!!!
wbo - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: 'Doesn't Wiggo have only something like 4% body fat? Basically as low as you can go without suffering serious medical complications'

I must say I looked at Frome tt'ing and was astonished at the lack of fat, and I've met some pretty lean people in my time. Compare his build to that of Cancellara to get approx the same K/kg.

Todays stage pretty well revealed that this is a pretty wishywashy field.

Some of the sniping and wittering on the US websites is just dreadful, and absolutely reactionary (swear words are disrepectful to paying customers and insult the lord). It's as if Wiggins appeared from nowhere, and now is beating the riders idolised for the last few years Velonews is dire.
wbo - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: re. the typo. Froome....
Christheclimber - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Toby S:
> (In reply to Enty)
>
> Cracking stage that. Voigt is just a beast, not bad for a 40 year old!

Just watched the highlights. Voigt did really well to hang in there, didn't know he was 40. No changes at the top, the Sky team rode well.
Enty - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to wbo:
>
>
> Todays stage pretty well revealed that this is a pretty clean field.
>
>

fixed ;-)

E
Tiberius - on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Game of Conkers:
> ...i would go as far as to say he looks ill.
>
> Which is ridiculous if you're probably the fittest person on the planet.

It's not ridiculous at all, people often mistake fitness with health...they're far from the same thing. Many extremely fit people are not healthy. Most athletes have a body fat proportion so low that their bodies don't really operate properly.

Cyclists lose weight in the tour, they have no fat to lose, so they lose muscle mass, and even bone mass.
steev on 11 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

I think Jens Voigt probably only lost out today by the same time it takes to write four tweets in a row about his family pets.
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Ramblin dave - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to wbo:

> Some of the sniping and wittering on the US websites is just dreadful, and absolutely reactionary (swear words are disrepectful to paying customers and insult the lord). It's as if Wiggins appeared from nowhere, and now is beating the riders idolised for the last few years Velonews is dire.

Quoth TweeterSagan:
"Mr Twiglet absolutely right: he not some shit rider who come from nowhere. He come from Ghent, Belgium."

Another interesting looking one today - two Liquigas riders in the big breakaway looking suspiciously like Nibbles' springboard...
Christheclimber - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:

Any news of today's stage? I am having difficulty accessing ITV4 online....
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Coming down to the final climb. A few riders away, Cadel atracked and got maybe 15 seconds but caught by Rogers and "The Sky Train" as they're calling them. Evans, Nibali and Wiggo all together with Rogers, Porte and Froome still there.

25km to go.
Hat Dude on 12 Jul 2012
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Just started the final 18km climb. Porte, Froome and Wiggo left from Sky. Peloton about 15-20 riders now. Leaders have 3:30.
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Mr Nibbles has gone - froome on the front chasing.
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Gottim back.
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: And off he goes again! Mr Nibbles is hungry today.
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Mr Nibbles has 15secs. Mr Twiglet on the front chasing - has Froome cracked?
Hat Dude on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Now we'll see what Wiggo has got
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude: Froome's back - Mr Twiglet has his friend back.
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Whoops! Has Evans gone?
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Cadel dropped, 10 secs to Nibali group. Could be Sky 1&2 later.
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Blimey - Froome just dropped Mr Twiglet. Back together now.
Skyfall - on 12 Jul 2012
I'm following this on the BBC website live updates but is there any (free) live streaming of this on a PC?

This is my 1st time following TdF and loving it. I almost feel inspired to go buy a bike lol !
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Wiggo has a minute on Evans and growing. Nibali the only danger now?
andy - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: Phew. Froome into second, takes 1:26 out of Cadel. Nibali and Wiggo stage love-in on the line. Amazing ride by Rolland after crashing.
Ben1983 - on 12 Jul 2012
Is there any clue about the sprinter's groupetto? Just heard on Eurosport that they are behind the cut-off, and according to letour website there are 17 dropped riders including some big names (Voeckler, Goss and Chavanel). I'd say 17 is few enough to actually throw them off...
Enty - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

From a Brit's perspective that's one of the best stages of the tour I've ever seen.

And falling off, getting back up with roadrash all over your arm and thigh, and winning the stage - footballers take note!!!

E
a lakeland climber on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Ben1983:

The cutoff will only be applied to 20% of the field or less. Currently 170 riders left so there will need to be at least 34 or so for them to avoid the cut-off and be eliminated.

ALC
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Enty - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

You're not taking into account that Voekler and Chavanel are French sweethearts ;-)

E
Lord of Starkness - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Looks like only Petacchi and Kristov were HD and eliminated. The 5 dnf's were Westra, Ruigh, Larsson, Mollema and Renshaw.

Cav & Eisel live to fight another day.
Wanderer100 - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Lord of Starkness: Whats Vincenzo Nibalis problem with Bradley?
tim000 - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100: just a bit of gamesmanship. wiggo said in the post race interview that they get on well off the bike.
anyone else wopnder what has happened to cobo ? won the vaulta but well behind here . wonder why:-)
Wanderer100 - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000: There seemed to be some disaffection yesterday between Brad and Vinc but a good show of mutual respect at the end of todays stage. Any guesses on how many stages Cav can claim between now and Paris?
Christheclimber - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude:

Cheers, I'll try the link tomorrow. Watched the highlights great stage. Is Evans now out of contention?
outtathaway - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: yes I'd say Evans is almost definitely out of contention, he's 3 minutes 19 seconds back and he's likely to lose another chunk of time at the next time trial. He's unlikely to take 4 minutes out of Wiggins in the pyrenees so I think his only chance would be if Wiggins were to suffer a fall or a mechanical. Nibali is his main rival now and looked very strong today although he too will lose about a minute on Bradley in the time trial and is currently 2 minutes, 23 seconds back so he'd have to do go very well in the pyrenees. This is looking like Wiggins's tour but you never know, glad Nibali is up there to make things interesting.
Mooncat - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to jamesgreenfield:

I think Nibali would need loads of luck to win, if Wiggins has a bad day in the mountains Froome will take over. Froome looks to me like the best climber in the race and he's probably the 2nd best time trialist.
Liam M - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: The way he seems to be performing Froome may inadvertently take yellow in the last TT ;)
Christheclimber - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Mooncat:

Yep Froome looked really strong and was going for it until he was told to go back for Brad all due to some poor communication from the team?
Tiberius - on 12 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
> ...all due to some poor communication from the team?

Interview from brad sounded funny...he said there was that much noise from the crowd they couldn't hear the radio and 'go' got mixed up with 'slow' :)

Who knows, but Froome certainly looked strong.
Morgan Woods - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Mooncat:
> (In reply to jamesgreenfield)
>
>Froome looks to me like the best climber in the race and he's probably the 2nd best time trialist.

So if he COULD win then SHOULD he win?
dale1968 - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods: no, it's a team sport, he's a domestique, thats his job, he cannot start attacking bw, he would just be helping the opposition
JLS on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods:

>"So if he COULD win then SHOULD he win?"

Should a good goal keeper get up front and try and score or should they stay back and try to stop the opposition from scoring?
Morgan Woods - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to dale1968:

Yeah i get that it's a team sport, however the situation is similar to TJVG and Evans with a stronger younger rider having to hang back.

Could there ever be a situation where the contender is flagging and management says let the younger rider go for it?
Morgan Woods - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to Morgan Woods)
>
> >"So if he COULD win then SHOULD he win?"
>
> Should a good goal keeper get up front and try and score or should they stay back and try to stop the opposition from scoring?

So on that point because it's not clear to me, when they talk about the "protection" provided by the rest of the team, what does this entail? Is it simply doing more time in the front and breaking trail (to use a climbing term), or is it more than that?
Quiddity - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods:

> Could there ever be a situation where the contender is flagging and management says let the younger rider go for it?

This is basically what happened in the Vuelta last year with BW and CF although by the time Wiggo cracked and they made the call, I think Froome had already sacrificed himself and it was too little, too late for an outright win.
Tiberius - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods:
> Could there ever be a situation where the contender is flagging and management says let the younger rider go for it?

Yes, happens quite often. Uhlrich is one example that springs to mind. Can't remember his team leader off the top of my head but he was flagging and Uhlrich went back to the team car for instructions and they told him to go for it.

It may well happen now with TVDG, Evans was clearly having a bad day yesterday, unless he can pull through today he will probably let TVDG free. But they can't just fly off at the first sign of trouble, basically they are paid to do a job. Same as any job, you can't just start doing your managers job, even if you think you could do a better job, that would just end it chaos.
Tiberius - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods:
> ...when they talk about the "protection" provided by the rest of the team, what does this entail? Is it simply doing more time in the front

There's a lot of things that fall into this category. Sheltering him from the wind, pacing him, surrounding him towards the end to protect him from crashes, shepherding him down the road, blocking rivals, fetching him food and drinks, disrupting other riders (take a look at the way saxobank 'beat up' Evans a few years ago)
Hat Dude on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:

You may be thinking of Mr 60% in 1997
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JLS on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:

>"There's a lot of things that fall into this category..."

Giving him a wheel or even bike in the event of puncture or mechanical.
johnjohn - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
> Yes, happens quite often. Uhlrich is one example that springs to mind. Can't remember his team leader off the top of my head but he was flagging and Uhlrich went back to the team car for instructions and they told him to go for it.

Bjarne Riis was the leader he accelerated uphill away from. What a moment. When did they start getting instructions by radio?
johnjohn - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude:
> You may be thinking of Mr 60% in 1997

beaten to it
Liam M - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods: It wasn't for GC but the stage, but last year when Tommy V cracked he let Rolland go free and he took Alpe D'Huez. I can imagine it gets a little more confusing when you have the top two gc riders though.
dale1968 - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M: who would have thought we would ever be in this situation. I have been watching this for thirty years and would never have dreamed of this scenario, amazing to watch
fxceltic on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to dale1968:
> (In reply to Liam M) who would have thought we would ever be in this situation. I have been watching this for thirty years and would never have dreamed of this scenario, amazing to watch

likewise, but as an irishman its already happened to me in 87. As I have been living in england for most of that time I consider myself to have dual nationality and follow english sport as closely as irish, I cant quite believe the situation is where it is either.

2 brits to finish 1-2 in le tour? Incredible really.
fxceltic on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: as an aside its surprising how bad rabobank have been this tour, given the apparent strength of the team

Gesink, Mollema, Kruijswick (sic?) all genuine GC hopes, all relatively bombing.
Tens Dam & Weening have done nothing in the mountains yet either
sprinters have got nothing
Sanchez has had one good attack but not great, although he is injured too.
thermal_t - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to dale1968)
> [...]
> 2 brits to finish 1-2 in le tour? Incredible really.

Indeed...I remember when Sky launched and they announced their intentions of winning the Tour with a British rider within 5 years they were mocked...who's laughing now?

parkovski - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods:
> (In reply to Mooncat)
> [...]
> >Froome looks to me like the best climber in the race and he's probably the 2nd best time trialist.
>
> So if he COULD win then SHOULD he win?

There seem to be some things that people seem to miss with all the chat about letting Froome take the lead from Wiggins. Theres a still good few miles before Paris, and it would seem people have forgotten their Aesop. Yesterday, before his little spurt off uphill, Froome had a bit of a dip and fell back. Obviously he made up the distance, but if Wiggins had dropped the pace in this way he would immediately have been attacked, and it would have been a heck of a lot harder to get back in touch. When Froome shot off Wiggins maintained exactly the same pace, it looked like he'd dropped off because Nibali chased Froome.

Regardless of any of these observations, if Wiggins had the Froome like juice to stage a final surge to the line it doesn't seem like clever racing. He's got a big gap already and can save energy by doing the minimum to keep rivals in check. Also, Froome might be the second best time trialist - but Wiggins is the first best. This is surely an important consideration w/r race strategy.
Hat Dude on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Thinking about yesterday's stage; it's premature to suggest Froome could or should takeover from Wiggins. Yes he looked a stronger at the finish but Wiggins hardly "cracked" and they were close to the finish. I'd guess they were happy just to put time into Evans and if Froome had continued to push Nibali & Van den Broeck would probably have gone with him and taken a few seconds from Wiggins.

Another example of a tour where a team mate sacrificed a potential winning chance was in 1990 when Indurain waited for Delgado.
Tiberius - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> Gesink, Mollema, Kruijswick (sic?) all genuine GC hopes, all relatively bombing.
> Tens Dam & Weening have done nothing in the mountains yet either
> sprinters have got nothing

The unusual steepness of the climbs perhaps seems to be producing some strange results.

Lack of real 'flat' stages has screwed the sprinters, with Cav getting wiped out in probably his best chance so far, and delivered to the front to soon in another opportunity...but you have to admit, Voekler's 'sprint' for the line has to be the funnest 'sprint' finish I've ever seen.

Paris will be interesting. If wiggo has yellow in the bag, will sky aid Cav as a trial run for the Olympics?
MJH - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to parkovski: Wiggins is a grinder on the hills, he has never really had the sort of explosive acceleration that some of the genuine climbers have (incl the likes of Froome). Sky got the tactics a bit wrong (easy to say in retrospect) at last year's Vuelta where Froome probably could have won.

The reality is that at the moment they don't need to switch to Froome, though I have little doubt that Froome could win the Tour if he was allowed off the leash. On current form he is a good enough TT'er to limit his losses and a better climber (provided he still has the team support) than Brad sufficient to put time into Brad on the climbs, but as I say for this year's TdF it is irrelevant at the moment.
Morgan Woods - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
> (In reply to Morgan Woods)
> [...]
>
> There's a lot of things that fall into this category. Sheltering him from the wind, pacing him, surrounding him towards the end to protect him from crashes, shepherding him down the road, blocking rivals, fetching him food and drinks, disrupting other riders (take a look at the way saxobank 'beat up' Evans a few years ago)

thanks for the info :p
kevin stephens - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods:

Yes Froome can go faster, but so could Wiggins. Wiggins needs to keep his lead whist saving as much as possible for rest of the race. It's an endurance race especially now that the dopers are not in contention.
Ally Smith on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude:
> (In reply to Tiberius)
>
> You may be thinking of Mr 60% in 1997

I thought he was Mr 55%? Either way, much more hemocrit than natural!

Frogger - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to kevin stephens:


Amazing, the pair of them.
Tiberius - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to kevin stephens:Yes Froome can go faster, but so could Wiggins. Wiggins needs to keep his lead whist saving as much as possible for rest of the race

Yeah, don't forget Evans has been attacking for most of the race so far, and yesterday he blew up. Wiggo doesn't need any more lead, he could probably get another two minutes on the other contenders in the final TT if needed (sans Froome), so he doesn't even need to be in the lead atm.

He's may have a bad day, most of them do, no point making it more likely by killing yourself when it's unnecessary.

Having said that, Sky probably do have a plan B, which would see Froome taking over, and a Plan A and a bit...which would see them taking 1 and 2. Froome may be given enough leash to help this, but really he doesn't need to do any more than he's doing, other than Wiggins nobody is going to take serious time from him in the TT, so no need to kill himself.
Tiberius - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Plus, as perhaps a Plan A and two bits...there's no point Froome killing himself if he's already 2nd, then he couldn't be any help to Cav on come Paris.

There would be a result, GB/Sky 1 & 2, and Cav wins on the Chambs.

Most brits don't understand how much of a minor sport cycling is in the UK compared with the rest of Europe. To be leading the world in it like we are doing is quite special.
Blinder - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: I feal for Mr Roche Jnr siting in 9th position and not a square mm of the papers deticated to him. Normaly the English press would have adoptted him.
Ramblin dave - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
Add to that - possibility of Millartime today?
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kevin stephens - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
yes but after the football and tennis it's great to see the Daily Mail etc starting to tske more than a passing interest
Tiberius - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to kevin stephens:

We're a 2nd rate football team, and barely a 3rd rate tennis power. Thing is we shouldn't even be a 3rd rate cycling power, but we are, so let's make the most of it.

In fact, looking at all the sports, I think Sailing is about the only one where we're good and you expect us to be...we have a lot of water. Other than that, until Darts and Snooker make it to the Olympics, we will have to wait and see.
fxceltic on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to parkovski) Wiggins is a grinder on the hills, he has never really had the sort of explosive acceleration that some of the genuine climbers have

This.

You almost never see wiggins stand up and stomp on the pedals going uphill, ever, which doesnt mean he cant get up the hill in more or less the same speed as everyone else, he just either lacks the explosive acceleration or believes there is no point in it at this stage.

The whole Froome or Wiggins thing is a red herring, its not, and never has been, an option unless Wiggins blows up or gets injured. Froome is a DS, that is what he is paid for. Mainstream press asking why he cant attack betrays their misunderstanding of the nature of this team sport.
parkovski - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:

Exactamundo pizza-cat.
a lakeland climber on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to kevin stephens:

It does seem a bit odd to have the BBC sports bulletins lead with Le Tour.

ALC
parkovski - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Might be a good time to open a bike shop!
Liam M - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to MJH)

> Froome is a DS, that is what he is paid for.

Has anyone told Brailsford, Ellingsworth or indeed Froome himself - you'd have thought he had enough to do as is!

Sorry just being facetious - DS is normally used for Director Sportif ;)

GrahamD - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

> It does seem a bit odd to have the BBC sports bulletins lead with Le Tour.


Talksport are still true to their talkfootball roots though !
Hat Dude on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Millar!

Great tour for the Brits so far
Enty - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude:

Delighted with that - currently reading Millar's book and I've totally warmed to him.

E
dale1968 - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: great post race interview by David Miller
Hat Dude on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Hat Dude)
>
> Delighted with that - currently reading Millar's book and I've totally warmed to him.
>
> E

Must read that; just out in paperback I think
fxceltic on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> Has anyone told Brailsford, Ellingsworth or indeed Froome himself - you'd have thought he had enough to do as is!
>
> Sorry just being facetious - DS is normally used for Director Sportif ;)

yes fair enough, sorry Im in fantasy cycling mode...
Christheclimber - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)

> Great tour for the Brits so far

This is just getting better with Millar winning. Brad and Chris Froome still in top places. 45 years slice Tom Simpson died on Mont Ventoux in 1967.

Christheclimber - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
> (In reply to Hat Dude)

> This is just getting better with Millar winning. Brad and Chris Froome still in top places. 45 years slice Tom Simpson died on Mont Ventoux in 1967.

All we need is Cav to win tomorrow!
Lord of Starkness - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> All we need is Cav to win tomorrow!

Hopefully if Cadel drops out of contention early in the Pyrenees then Steve Cummings might get let off the leash. Now that would really be something if all 5 Brits in the race won a stage!

Byronius Maximus - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude: That was truly fantastic! Can't think of a person I'd like to win a stage more than Millar.

I've never been so proud to be a fan of British cycling (or cycling in general for that matter).
Chris the Tall - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
Really pleased for millar. His outspoken views have made it difficult to win. Is it naive of me to think that the amount of British success in this years TDF is an indication that the sport is much cleaner now?

Also, how do other fans feel about the eulogising of Tommy Simpson? I always cringe when I hear of him, he was, after all, someone who not only took drugs, but took too many of them.
Christheclimber - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)

> Also, how do other fans feel about the eulogising of Tommy Simpson? I always cringe when I hear of him, he was, after all, someone who not only took drugs, but took too many of them.

Very true
Tiberius - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Always difficult to put today's values on previous times. May as well complain about Sherlock Holmes being a heroin addict, or George Washington owning slaves.
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BelleVedere on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
> someone who not only took drugs, but took too many of them.

I'm a child of the rave generation, so no chance of me casting the first stone
Mooncat - on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

All this hypocrisy about drug taking sickens me, is there honestly anyone on here who hasn't loaded themselves with EPO, taken a course of HGH and finished the job with steds just to give their mates a kicking on the club run?
JLS on 13 Jul 2012
In reply to Mooncat:

Is that what it takes to get round the Trough of Bowland from your neck of the woods?
kevin stephens - on 14 Jul 2012
Toby_W on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: sorry just need to say we're pretty good at triathlon. Chrissie W and the brown lees. Bet you the latter get a gold. I'll put a fiver on it.

Cheers

toby
sharpie530 - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to Toby_W:

I'd say we're not bad at cricket either at the moment. Very close to being number 1 in all forms of the game.
Christheclimber - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to sharpie530:

Should be a good sprint finish 5k to go
Christheclimber - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Photo finish André Greipel takes it with Sagan second. Good effort from Brad.
Christheclimber - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Where is everyone today?
McGuinness - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: right here! I don't think anyone will stop Wiggo now. He's looking strong and unruffled. The other GC contenders (I'm not counting Froome as he won't be allowed to contest unless wiggins crashes out or retires) have tried attackig but they aren't managing to make any ground and aren't looking strong enough to contend. Also, there's another ITT to come and I see Wiggo adding more time on to his lead. Good sprint finish today as well, Sagan and Greipel left boassen hagen for dead even after being run in like he was by mr. yellow. Not sure how the young riders jersey will work out. Whatsisface has a 57' lead over Pinot, both good riders riding well. Cav's not having the same form he's had in tours gone by, only time I saw him the last few races was when he kept getting dropped on the hills. D'ya think sky isn't the team for him?
bobbybin - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness: Why have the Olympic organisers chosen a route for the road race that doesn't suit Cav? It would have been easy to pick a nice flat route, don't get it
elsewhere on 14 Jul 2012
Are there fewer decisive mountain top finishes this year? The stage on Sunday is another one where an escaper can be chased down on or after the descent and is unlikely to challenge the yellow jersey.
Enty - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to bobbybin:
> (In reply to McGuinness) Why have the Olympic organisers chosen a route for the road race that doesn't suit Cav? It would have been easy to pick a nice flat route, don't get it

It's because we is British. No other country in the world would do this. F*ckin stupid but typically British.

E
Tiberius - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness:
> ...Cav's not having the same form he's had in tours gone by, only time I saw him the last few races was when he kept getting dropped on the hills. D'ya think sky isn't the team for him?

Not as many flat stages this year, not really the course for him. He one one of two that were ideal, the other ideal one he was unlucky and got brought down. Certainly Sky are not giving him the same service as htc did, but that was never going to happen, not this year at least.

He's still going to be there on the Champs, and going by what happened today he may be led out by the yellow jersey...now that would be something that has never happened before :)
Chris the Tall - on 14 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to bobbybin)
> [...]
>
> It's because we is British. No other country in the world would do this. F*ckin stupid but typically British.
>
> E

Not quite. Apparently we originally proposed a flatter stage, but this was rejected by the UCI. The course is as flat as we could get away with.

However, I've been saying all year that it's in Cav's interest to lose plenty of stages in this years tour - the less invincible he appears, the more teams that will be trying to ensure a bunch finish in London.....
bluebealach - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Strange going-ons in today' stage. Following the final climb a high number of riders (particularly BMC and the Wiggo) have had punctures. I think Cadel Evans has had three!!

Initially it was thought that road grit may have been the cause but they have now reported tacks on the road and will be interesting to see how they deal with events.
Fat Bumbly2 - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to bluebealach: The Fairy has been putting in overtime. I see that Sky have attempted to neutralise the chase.

Hopefully the perps will be caught.
Dave Kerr - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

That was a bit bizarre. I blame Dick Dastardly.
CGlennie on 15 Jul 2012
Pretty poor form for someone to ruin today's stage like that.
Enty - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to CGlennie:

Yep - there's some knobs out there but I don't think it ruined the stage.


E
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almost sane - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to CGlennie)
>
> Yep - there's some knobs out there but I don't think it ruined the stage.
>
>
> E

It ruined this year's tour for Robert Kiserlovski who crashed and injured himself badly enough that he has had to withdraw.
No official word yet about whether or not this was actually due to the tacks on the road, but he came off his bike in the middle of the area where people were having all the punctures.
Christheclimber - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Dave Kerr:

Not seen today's stage yet............
bluebealach - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to almost sane:
>

> No official word yet about whether or not this was actually due to the tacks on the road.

This is now posted on the BBC sports pages.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18849505

Enty - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to almost sane:
> (In reply to Enty)
> [...]
>
> It ruined this year's tour for Robert Kiserlovski who crashed and injured himself badly enough that he has had to withdraw.
>

Obviously.

Didn't ruin the stage though thankfully. Can't have Brad winning a tarnished tour.

E
Darren Jackson - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

A plague of magnetic mice. That'd solve the tack problems once and for all... We basically need to take tens of thousands of mice and force-feed them tiny magnets, before releasing them across the stage just prior to the peloton arriving in the vicinity.

And, of course, when the mice are subsequently eaten by owls, then everybody would get to have magnetic owl pellets on their fridges. It's win-win.
Christheclimber - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

Great to see the sporting gesture by Brad and the peleton to wait for Evans to catch up which highlights cycling at its best.
Who are the idiots trying to ruin the race by throwing tacks onto the road?
Enty - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Yeah. When I saw Evans on the col waiting for a wheel I knew Brad would do the right thing.

Some proper sportsmanship going on today. Compare that with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVksdN4QnvA

E
Tiberius - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> Some proper sportsmanship going on today.

I think it may come back on VDG who plainly refused to help Evans. Can't see many team leaders wanting to take him on next year.
almost sane - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Just heard Mr Wiggins comment that those who had thrown the tacks on the road should be caught and sent to a football match...
Enty - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to almost sane:

Nice!!

E
McGuinness - on 15 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: those carpet laying spectators are really tacking the piss...
Richard Smith - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: Even if Brad does not win the tour, he should be voted Sports Personality of the year for his Sportsmanship actions yesterday; many other sportsmen (footballers) and Women should take note.
Skyfall - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Richard Smith:

What, like he didn't work out that if he just rode on his eventul win would be reduced in value?

Right call all the same but don't kid yourself it was pure sportsmanship...

dale1968 - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to JonC: have you raced? this is the norm if he attacked, he would be on his own, and known as a knob, just as they don't attack when peeing or at food stations or big crashes
woolsack - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to JonC:
> (In reply to Richard Smith)
>
> What, like he didn't work out that if he just rode on his eventul win would be reduced in value?
>
> Right call all the same but don't kid yourself it was pure sportsmanship...

How do you define sportsmanship?
Enty - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to JonC:
> (In reply to Richard Smith)
>
> What, like he didn't work out that if he just rode on his eventul win would be reduced in value?
>
> Right call all the same but don't kid yourself it was pure sportsmanship...

I don't understand.

E
Christheclimber - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

STAGE 15. Monday, July 16th is from Samatan to Pau. Will it be a day for the sprinters?

http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2012/us/days-stage.html
dale1968 - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: yes, my vote goes to mark
ClimberEd - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to JonC:
> (In reply to Richard Smith)
>
> What, like he didn't work out that if he just rode on his eventul win would be reduced in value?
>

That is part of sportsmanship. Don't be a wally.
Christheclimber - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to ClimberEd:

Van Garde was very cagey in his response to not waiting for his team mate Evans.
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John Rushby - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Looks like Tommy V is in the break. Wonder if he'll actrually do osme work, or just spend the next 2 hours gurning like a bad King Lear in some provincial play, then nick the stage.

He's the new Richard Virenque.......
graeme jackson - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
> He's the new Richard Virenque.......

is voeckler on drugs then? just kidding :-) I saw virenque parading around one of the start villages in 2005 and he was being treated like a god by all and sundry.
John Rushby - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to graeme jackson:

rumours abound about Europcar, and apparently he is not well likedi n the peloton.

He is admittedly just annoying, whereas Virenque was a total buttpart.
John Rushby - on 16 Jul 2012
Christheclimber - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:

Thomas Voeckler still in the leading group of six. The peleton are not chasing, they seem to be taking it "easy" today.
Wanderer100 - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
Why are none of the GC contenders trying to break into Bradleys lead? The last few stages have been a bit of a procession with small breakaway groups taking the glory.
Hat Dude on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100:

Sky have pretty much got them marked
Wanderer100 - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude: I guess tomorrow will sort it out, the col de tourmalet stage is always a big day and if Nibili or Evans dont make a concerted effort to break the Sky team I think it will be all over. Correction: It will be all over.
Enty - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
> Why are none of the GC contenders trying to break into Bradleys lead?

How on earth can they do that on a pan flat run in to the finish when Brad is surrounded by his team?

E
Ramblin dave - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100:
Basically because it's more or less impossible, on a flat stage, for a breakaway to survive an organized attempt to catch them as soon as possible. When they succeed it's either because no-one in the peleton cares enough to bother chasing them hard, or because the teams who care about catching the break decide to let them tire themselves out a bit before reeling them in easily near the end, but misjudge how late they can leave it.
Wanderer100 - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: FaIr enough for todays stage but the opposition have been disappointing this year. I guess I miss the bunch sprints we have become used to seeing Cav win over the past 4 /5 years. I am suprised by Cadel Evans lack of form and also Frank Schleck has been off the pace. Sky are far too strong, that much is clear, maybe they should have let Froome and Wiggins battle it out. Now that would have been interesting.
Liam M - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100: Both Evans and Nibali have been trying on occasion, but the attacks have been shut down. They can't go too manically or they'll pop and lose all future chances.
Though as you say, they may reach the all or nothing point in the next couple of days.
Hat Dude on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100:

Evans really doesn't look to have it in him. I know he usually looks miserable, but he looks a bit short on luck and demoralised.

GrahamD - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:

I wonder what size a group has to be before it can basically pace as well as a peloton ?
John Rushby - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Hat Dude:
> (In reply to Wanderer100)
>
> Evans really doesn't look to have it in him. I know he usually looks miserable, but he looks a bit short on luck and demoralised.

Yeah, almost like he is back in Silence Lotto with no team around him. Only Big George seems to have worked with the team leader.
Aly - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD: It probably depends on who's in the group, and what the wind is doing. A strong cross- or tail-wind would make chasing any group down pretty hard as the bulk of the peloton can't hide from the wind. Even in normal conditions I'd imagine a group of over 20-30 would be very hard to keep in check if they got any lead??
Swirly - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD: That really depends on how many will be actively involved in the chasing, hence the adage don't let an escape go that's bigger than your team. Although in reality large groups have a few hangers on who make everyone play cat and mouse and slow down the breakaway.
JamButty - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Swirly: As per other recent points, I'm pretty new to this tour thing and enjoyed the early stages, but am now getting bored.
It seems now Brad and Sky have this yellow jersey, nothings happening.
why is no-one trying to stop the seemingly inevitable win?
Are the Sky team really that good that no-one can touch them, or am I missing something else.
Enty - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Winterbotty:

You're missing something else. Two massive mountain stages on Wednesday and Thursday this week.

E
elsewhere on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Winterbotty:
> Are the Sky team really that good that no-one can touch them, or am I missing something else.

Part of the race is to convince your rivals that it's not even worth trying. I reckon Armstrong sometimes had is rivals convinced of that before the race started!

Yesterday (even without the tacks) & today were pretty unusual in that they allowed the break away to get so far ahead. It may be because Sagan is so far ahead in the sprint classification that other teams with a sprinter have given up.
JamButty - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: but in the alps all the GC's pretty much sat in the Peleton so no change, why will it be different this time?

I've read Lance's books which is one of the reasons I'm much more into it than previous years.
It just seems the top 10 is going to be the same as it is now, when we get to Paris, which although will give us a great UK win, seems a bit dull.

danm - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to elsewhere: Yeah, it's now basically about the GC and stage wins, nothing else worth gunning for, and as the GC looks fairly sewn up.....

To be honest, I think the main drama is going to be what happens if Wiggins falters in the next 2 days and Froome feels strong. Could be some fireworks in Team Sky!
Christheclimber - on 16 Jul 2012
In reply to Winterbotty:

I agree it would seem the race is over unless Brad/Sky has an accident of some sort. Today's stages was not particularly exciting but we have two big mountain savages coming up....................
Chris the Tall - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
Maybe it's time to start speculating on transfers

Cav to Garmin ?
Froome to RadioShack ?

I can't see Sky asking Wiggo to play 2nd fiddle, nor holding on to all 3

The New NickB - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I think Cav is saving himself for Paris (and Surrey) and quite enjoying playing fetch and setting the pace in the hills for a bit!?!

I suspect this year is all about the rainbow and the gold.

Froome is a more interesting question.
Ramblin dave - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Winterbotty:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) but in the alps all the GC's pretty much sat in the Peleton so no change, why will it be different this time?

One possibility is that different riders are in different states of fitness at different times, so Wiggo was peaking in the Alps but Evans or Mr Nibbles might have ridden into peak fitness for the Pyrenees. Another is that it's another day on a different stage and it's hard to say when someone will fold. And finally it's a last chance for the climbers so they're going to be giving it absolutely everything they've got.

Wiggens is still in the driving seat, but it's going to be an interesting few days...
Escher - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall: Looks like Froome is saying he wants to be team leader at Sky in the 2013 tour
http://www.itv.com/tourdefrance/news/froome-expects-team-skys-full-support-in-2013/
Enty - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Winterbotty:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) but in the alps all the GC's pretty much sat in the Peleton so no change, why will it be different this time?
>
>

Cuddles and Nibbles both attacked in The Alps - Wiggo just rode back up to them. Must have been totally demoralising and that's what it's all about.

When this happens you have to make a decision - attack til you drop, lose time and be lucky to finish top 10 or stay as close to the leader as you can and try for a 2nd or 3rd podium place in Paris.

Andy Schleck was more than happy to do this with Contador a couple of years ago.

E

MJH - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall: IIRC both Cav and Froome Froome have at least another year (if not longer) on their contracts.

Froome said that if the Tour next year is more hilly and therefore suited him more than Brad that he would be allowed to be the focus.
Chris the Tall - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall) IIRC both Cav and Froome Froome have at least another year (if not longer) on their contracts.
>
But contracts in cycling are even more flimsy than those in football and theres little point in keeping someone who's unhappy - look at how Wiggins moved from Garmin to Sky. I think if Cav wins in Paris and London he'll stick with Brailsford for another season out of loyalty. If it all goes pear-shaped, the toys will be out of the pram....

> Froome said that if the Tour next year is more hilly and therefore suited him more than Brad that he would be allowed to be the focus.

It's 1986 all over again ! Actually I can see Sky doing this, and Wiggins accepting that the team's best interest must come first, but it would be very unusual

John Rushby - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I think Froome ( and his girlfriend) should suck it up. He signed to Sky kowing that it was a team being built around Wiggo.

He might be riding strongly, but it is another question whether he is in reality a GC contender.
MJH - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby: True, but things change and people improve. He is a contender without a doubt, whether he could do it without a strong team is another matter.

Chris - Sky had money to buy people out of contracts, not sure too many other teams do.
Rigid Raider - on 17 Jul 2012
Froome still has a parasitic infection he caught in Kenya, it would be bad news if it reasserted itself when he was in a key position in a team.
Quiddity - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:

> He might be riding strongly, but it is another question whether he is in reality a GC contender.

This is surely the case. I am very new to following pro cycling but all this chat about whether Sky should switch leadership to Froome on the evidence of a couple of strong looking days in the mountains seems a bit premature. Surely being a strong GC contender with a team built around them needs a much broader skill set than we have so far seen evidence of from Froome - self belief, ability to cope with the pressure, ability to inspire the rest of the team, consistency over the whole season and several consecutive seasons, gravitas to control the peloton and exchange stony glances with other contenders, etc etc. They have been training and building a team around Wiggo for years now, it seems madness to chuck this strategy away when it is coming to fruition, basically on a whim.
MJH - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Quiddity: Froome Froome beat Brad in last year's Vuelta and would have stood a good chance of winning it if he hadn't had to wait for Brad on some of the climbs.

It is all academic anyway as the reality is that unless Brad cracks on Wed or Thurs (and that hasn't looked too likely) then they have no need to switch leaders.
andy - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
>
> I think Froome ( and his girlfriend) should suck it up. He signed to Sky kowing that it was a team being built around Wiggo.
>
> He might be riding strongly, but it is another question whether he is in reality a GC contender.

Absolutely - had he been allowed to go the other day there's no guarantee he'd have taken any time out of Wiggo, but of he had it would have been less than a minute - most of which which he had already lost on the ITT, and could be expected to lose a similar amount again on Friday.

I get the feeling Froome himself is being misquoted, but his girlfriend should let him getin with his job. Bit of a spat between her and Mrs Wiggo on Twitter the other night.
John Rushby - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

It's an interesting situation. I think it comes down to:

1) Froome has been misquoted in L'Equipe (from an Italian piece, into French, into English) and is feeling a bit sheepish

or

2) It's all going a bit Thane of Cawdor, and he is firing a shot in front of Sky's bow and hoping to have his contract cancelled and nice big fat one offered from BMC or Radioshack.

I go for 2.

Would type more but busy emailing the DT and telling them their chief sports writer should be taken out and thown in the Thames for his nasty little piece of insinuation regarding Wiggins the other day.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9396181/Tour-de-France-2012-Brad...


GrahamD - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:

I'm not sure I read it quite the way you do - especially with the sign off comment at the end. I think he's just making the point that any athlete's claims of being clean don't amount to a hill of beans anymore. If you are clean you are probably better off keeping quiet and just getting on with it.
Calder - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to John Rushby)
>
> I'm not sure I read it quite the way you do - especially with the sign off comment at the end. I think he's just making the point that any athlete's claims of being clean don't amount to a hill of beans anymore. If you are clean you are probably better off keeping quiet and just getting on with it.

I read it as this too.
Lord of Starkness - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Hasn't Brad said something along the lines of 'this year is the best chance I'll ever get at winning, and at 33 I don't expect to become a multiple tour winner'.

Froome on the other hand is 27 and approaching his prime -- he could lead the Sky team to several other Grand Tour victories - and I don't doubt for one minute that Brailsford hasn't thought about that scenario.

I think Froome's brief 'attack' in the Alps was just to serve notice to all of the others in the peloton that he's the man to beat in future and that Bertie Beefcake the Shreks had better watch out.
ads.ukclimbing.com
John Rushby - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Some good stuff on the riders' twitter feeds.

A pictuire of randoms queueing is entitled "People Standing theh Pierre Roland Complaint Line" by VandeVelde

and Millar has christened the Sky bus "The Deathstar"

http://twitter.com/millarmind
MJH - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Lord of Starkness: As if on cue, Brad announces he will support Froome Froome on future tours: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18877975
Calder - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to Lord of Starkness) As if on cue, Brad announces he will support Froome Froome on future tours: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18877975

Why does Chris Froome insist on wearing those pantomime glasses? They're more than just a little bit Dame Edna Everage.
Calder - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Some good stuff on the riders' twitter feeds.
>
> A pictuire of randoms queueing is entitled "People Standing theh Pierre Roland Complaint Line" by VandeVelde
>
> and Millar has christened the Sky bus "The Deathstar"
>
> http://twitter.com/millarmind

This is brilliant!

http://www.strava.com/rides/millartime-13312938
a lakeland climber on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Calder:

On a somewhat sadder note, the BBC are reporting that "RadioShack rider Frank Schleck of Luxembourg has failed a doping test, says the International Cycling Union (UCI)."

No indication of when the test was taken.

ALC
Mikkel - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

taken 14th of July
Calder - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to Calder)
>
> On a somewhat sadder note, the BBC are reporting that "RadioShack rider Frank Schleck of Luxembourg has failed a doping test, says the International Cycling Union (UCI)."
>
> No indication of when the test was taken.
>
> ALC

July 14th according to VeloNews. Doesn't appear to have done him much good like, but yes, that's rather disappointing.
Graham Mck on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Calder:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18880417

report says a diuretic (Xipamide)

how would this help?
Calder - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Graham Mck:
> (In reply to Calder)
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18880417
>
> report says a diuretic (Xipamide)
>
> how would this help?

No idea. So I asked this on another forum (shock horror!). Here are the responses:

"Xipamide.........As used in acute decompensated heart failure (ADHF), the immediate goal is to re-establish adequate perfusion and oxygen delivery to end organs. This entails ensuring that airway, breathing, and circulation are adequate. Immediated treatments usually involve some combination of vasodilators such as nitroglycerin, diuretics such as furosemide, and possibly non invasive positive pressure ventilation (NIPPV)....

Sounds like the poor soul is out of breath, God only knows why!!!"

"Its commonly used as a masking agent for something more sinister/performance enhancing."
Swirly - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Calder: Maybe he was trying to make the race more entertaining?

Or finally getting his €7000 worth.
a lakeland climber on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Calder:

Does anyone know what xipamide is used for (other than a diuretic)? Is it a masking agent?

It would seem a bit odd to take a diuretic (fluid loss) drug in an event that requires lots of fluid intake.

ALC
Calder - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to Calder)
>
> Does anyone know what xipamide is used for (other than a diuretic)? Is it a masking agent?
>
> It would seem a bit odd to take a diuretic (fluid loss) drug in an event that requires lots of fluid intake.
>
> ALC

From that source of all knowledge, Wikipedia:

"In sports a masking agent is used to hide or prevent detection of a banned substance or illegal drug like anabolic steroids or stimulants. Diuretics are the simplest form of masking agent and work by enhancing water loss via urine excretion and thus diluting the urine, which results in lower levels of the banned substance being excreted from the body making it more difficult for laboratories to detect."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masking_agent

Referenced to Britannica Online Encyclopedia.

So I presume yes.
a lakeland climber on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Calder:

Ta.

I was a bit distracted over the last couple of posts - I was eating my tea and on the phone to my brother whilst typing them!

So, is the Luxembourg beef industry (do they have one) going to get the blame?

ALC
coinneach - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

It's a great shame........................

Armstrong is inspiring ( but was he clean)

Froome is magnificent ( but is he clean)

I hope Wiggins wins le Tour..........

Every time there's a positive test it raises doubts.
a lakeland climber on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Frank Schleck now withdrawn from Le Tour. Radioshack-Nissan stating that none of their medications contain xipamide and that they don't know how Schleck came to test positive for it.

ALC
MJH - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber: The sad thing is that it always seemed the Schlecks were clean and now it just throws everyone else under suspicion again.

What an idiot
Tiberius - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Shame really, everyone knew he had doped, but was hoping he was clean now, especially as he wasn't doing much good this year. Seemed pretty pointless really.
Mooncat - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to a lakeland climber) The sad thing is that it always seemed the Schlecks were clean and now it just throws everyone else under suspicion again.


Nah, it's been well known that the Schlecks were/are dopers, they've been all over them for the last few years, it's just surprising he's been this stupid.


a lakeland climber on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Mooncat:

A pretty in depth article on diuretics - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2962812/ some light reading there!

Didn't realise that acetazolamide (Diamox) was a diuretic.

ALC
a lakeland climber on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Here's the Radioshack statement: http://www.radioshacknissantrek.com/news/frank-schleck-statement

ALC
ads.ukclimbing.com
woolsack - on 17 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Then surely the only safe course of action to avoid banned substances is to consume the approved Olympic diet of Big Mac with extra fries washed down with a couple of litres of coke and a few bars of chocolate for afters
Enty - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Mooncat:
> (In reply to MJH)
> [...]
>
>
> Nah, it's been well known that the Schlecks were/are dopers, they've been all over them for the last few years, it's just surprising he's been this stupid.

When Andy Schleck attacked 18 times in the forest on Mont Ventoux in 2009 it was reminiscent of Cunego in the Giro in 2003....errrr....superhuman.

E
a lakeland climber on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

Apparently he (F. Schleck) is now claiming he was poisoned!

ALC
dale1968 - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber: great comedy
Horse on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:

Rubbishy, don't feel so bad about fitting the compact for the Etape:

http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2012/07/16/tour-tech-wiggos-di2-derailleur-hack/
biped - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Mooncat:

Dopers or not, I find it hard to feel any sympathy for him after his and Andy's lemon-faced behaviour last year when they complained that the Tour organisers were conspiring against them by having descent finishes.

It's never good for the sport as a whole though when riders like them get netted in the drug tests.
Liam M - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Horse:
> (In reply to John Rushby)
>
> Rubbishy, don't feel so bad about fitting the compact for the Etape:
>
> http://bicycling.com/blogs/thisjustin/2012/07/16/tour-tech-wiggos-di2-derailleur-hack/

Hamon commented on a conversation he'd had with Boardman a few days ago, where he suggested given the option he'd generally spec a compact for most races. Kelly didn't entirely agree, but it seems the little gear option is becoming more accepted in the top echelons.
Dave Kerr - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to Enty)
>
> Apparently he (F. Schleck) is now claiming he was poisoned!

He's only going to claim poisoning if the B sample is positive. So clearly there is no evidence.

It's like that scene in Shawshank Redemption when Red asks the prisoners why they are there. All of them have a ready made excuse "I was framed" "Lawyer f*cked me" etc.

It's getting pretty tiresome.
Tiberius - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Mooncat:
> ...it's just surprising he's been this stupid.

I agree, he had no chance of winning nething this year, so why bother? I can only assume he thought he wouldn't be tested if he wasn't winning. Crazy.

Who thought they were clean? Probably people who think Armstrong won 7 tours on fruit juice...and skin cream :)
Escher - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Horse: That's lower than a compact and a 11-28, assuming Wiggo had 39 front 36 back.
MJH - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: Cracking comment on the BBC's twitter feed:

Got to say, I doubt would anyone poison Frank Schleck? He's been rubbish all year. Would be like poisoning Francis Jeffers...
Mike Highbury - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Mooncat)
> [...]
>
> When Andy Schleck attacked 18 times in the forest on Mont Ventoux in 2009 it was reminiscent of Cunego in the Giro in 2003....errrr....superhuman.
>
> E

There are few fairy tales in professional sport.
Wanderer100 - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Mike Highbury: The Pyrenees are looking magnificent today. What a great ride by Mr Voeckler so far.
Welsh Kate - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100:
Seriously pissed off, my ITV player coverage keeps dropping out!
Wanderer100 - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Welsh Kate: If Voeckler keeps this up he may well win the stage and gain the polka dot jersey. Impressive stuff from someone who almost didnt start the tour due to injury!!
McGuinness - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: raced along a lot of this stage so great viewing. Cuddles is out of the running it appears, been dropped and losing loads of time. Liquigas and sky setting a really good pace. Looks like Nibbles is the only one that can give Brad a hard time if he ever decides to attack.
Wanderer100 - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness: Its going to be exciting when Nibali finally makes a break for it but Wiggo looks like a man in control of his own destiny!
Enty - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100:
> (In reply to Welsh Kate) If Voeckler keeps this up he may well win the stage and gain the polka dot jersey. Impressive stuff from someone who almost didnt start the tour due to injury!!

I reckon if it's just these two at the top of the Peyresourde and down into Bagnares Tommy will gift the stage to Feillu for not contesting the KOM points. Probably already decided by the two of them.

(although the chasers are catching!)

E
Wanderer100 - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: TV has made the break to gain to polka dot jersey...go on son.
McGuinness - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: nibbles has bitten! Goes on the attack but wiggins and froome keeping up comfortably... Fair play to tommy voeckler, he really wants this stage!
ads.ukclimbing.com
Enty - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Classic Sherwin!!

" They will descend the Peyresourde at approximately 1km every 60 seconds and to translate this into old money - that's 45 miles an hour"

Legend!!

E
Christheclimber - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

Good win for Voeckler today by 1 minute 40, Evans is now a gonner with no change at the top. Is it know a foregone conclusion that Brad will win?
Welsh Kate - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness:

"nibbles has bitten!"
Bizarre; my hamster when I was a kid was called nibbles.

The ITV player is behaving itself now the stage is over :-(
Hat Dude on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

> Is it know a foregone conclusion that Brad will win?

Please don't tempt fate!

It'll be good for Sky that they've probably only got to mark one rider tomorrow.

Never been Cadel's biggest fan but part of me always thinks it's sad to see an old champ crack.
dale1968 - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: how can he got that wrong! not the first time either
mattrm - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

I wouldn't say it's foregone, but it's hard to see him loosing it now. As long as he does a good final TT (which he is strong at) then he's pretty likely to get the job done. Only 4 stages now!

Looks good for future years as well, with Froome being so strong.
Graham Mck on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to mattrm: We may well see him loosening his chin strap tomorrow, but I doubt we'll witness him losing the race!
Swirly - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Escher: IIRC those oval chain rings only have a 42 inner ring, one of the reasons for such a big block. A lot of riders did similar in last years giro on the Zoncolan. That said given the cadence he's kept up all the climbs it seems a good choice.
HB1 - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Swirly: I've also seen him, on two occasions, hurl his bike down the ditch on the roadside - complaining later about mechanicals. Not today though, thank goodness
Tiberius - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Realistically Nibali is racing for 2nd now. To win the yellow he'd probably need around 4 mins tomorrow, which just isn't going to happen. However it may be tricky for sky to defend Froome if nibbles breaks.

Say he gets a minute or 2 and wiggo is finding it tough, it's no real threat to the yellow, but Froome will need to stay with wiggo to pace him and potentially lose 2nd place.

No, I don't think it will happen, but it's the only real threat I seen now, apart from an unforeseen accident.
Horse on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:

Or the Wiley Coyote finally gets him :-)
andy - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: Just watched the highlights and I don't think Wiggo ever looked in any trouble today - if Mr Nibbles could keep a team mate or two with him to pressure Sky he might have a better chance, but Richie Porte seems to do for everyone else before they get chance to have a go!
TimB - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

Wiggins looked totally in control when he and Froome were riding back up to Mr Nibbles - if anything it was Froome who seemed to be having some difficulty near the top, when Wiggo took over the chase.
Enty - on 18 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:
> if Mr Nibbles could keep a team mate or two with him to pressure Sky he might have a better chance,

Like Basso - unfortunately he's clean nowadays so after the first climb of the day he's useless!

E

Christheclimber - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

Who is going to shine today?
Tiberius - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

The sky train. Nibble will have a half hearted attempt to attack and will be steadily reeled back in. Nobody else really has much to gain, but plenty to defend. VDG has been let off Evans watching duty to make sure he keeps White, TV needs to defend the polka dot, other than that, it's already a procession.
Wanderer100 - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Nibali has made a break from the yellow jersey group. Tommy Voeckler has extended his. Polka dot lead. Visibility is 100 yrds at best, exciting stuff!!
Enty - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Wanderer100:

Fascinating watching the exchange between Nibali and Valverde - now Nibali has sat up.

E
Skyfall - on 19 Jul 2012
I've been keeping up with the action on what I thnk is the TdF 2012 official website's live commentary.

Has anyone else noticed how they hardly ever mention the Brit riders and seem to be ignoring Wiggins as much as is plausible. I know he's playing it safe and tactical and hence not much in the action up-front but there's almost zero comment about Wiggo, Froome et al.

If/when Wiggo wins, they're going to have suddenly announce that this rider they've hardly mentioned in the last two weeks has won.
Tiberius - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

When there are Frenchish stage winners they will mentions those more
ads.ukclimbing.com
IMA - on 19 Jul 2012
Only started watching yesterday (itv4) and though today especially there has been very little coverage of Wiggins, he hasn't done much except just stay steady, not particularly exciting to watch. Have to see what happens when moves are made.
Doug on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to IMA: been watching on http://www.francetv.fr/sport/tour-de-france/direct but the video link keeps disappearing, any alternatives ?
IMA - on 19 Jul 2012
ITV have a player, been working fine for me all day along with the golf (catch up day of work so why not eh)
ClimberEd - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Doug:

ITV 4 live over the web.
Mr Powly - on 19 Jul 2012
Enty - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

This is effin awesome!!!

E
ClimberEd - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

!!! Froome should just nail it.
McGuinness - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: It's an exciting final few km! Nibali out of it. A sky 1-2 in Paris then.
IMA - on 19 Jul 2012
wish Froome had just gone for the stage. To me it seemed that it would have made little difference for Wiggins chance of winning. (novice view though).
McGuinness - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to IMA: Froome had to stay with Wiggins. 1, to quell media gossip and speculation and 2, he's a domestique and his job is to assist Wiggins.
Would like to have seen Wiggins really go for it on that last climb though.
Liam M - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Only seen a text feed rather than footage, but some people suggesting Wiggins seemed to be telling Froome to go but he didn't.
Skyfall - on 19 Jul 2012
Froome was clearly exorting Wiggo to keep going hard. He was talking to him non stop on that last section of the climb and there's no way he was continually asking permission to head off. I'm sure he was trying to keep Wiggo driving on. Good on Froome for sticking to his job rather than personal short-lived glory.
Enty - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness:

Exactly. Putting another 17 seconds into Nibali is more important than Froome winning the stage.
Froome could end up making himself look a dick here which would be a shame.

E
Enty - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to JonC:

I hope your interpretation is the right one.

E
IMA - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: a question from ignorance. If Froome had cycled off to catch up the remaining 20-30 seconds, what except bad luck would have meant that Wiggins would have been unable to create/maintain that 17 second gap?
McGuinness - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty: I'm guessing Froome was really keen to get as much of an advantage as possible, but brad was keeping a cool head and knew that keeping a safe steady fast pace would leave a good gap between them and the rest. I'm guessing of course.

Edit: as I'm writing, Wiggins interview confirms what I guessed! :)
Lord of Starkness - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness:

Wonder what odds I could get on a Froome win in 2013 as it's the centenary of the Alps first appearing in the tour -- it's got to be worth a tenner.
elsewhere on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness:
Sounds more like Wiggins lost his cool & got quite emotional in the last few km.
I wonder if Froome may be kept away from the media this evening as I suspect he wanted to go for the stage win.
JLS on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to IMA:

In the unlikely event wiggins had punctured or much worse broke his bike then having froome beside him guaranteed any time losses would be minimal. Although what happened was the right thing to do my heart says froome should have been allowed to go with 2km to go.
GrahamD - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:

We aren't very good at appreciating totally ruthless professionalism in the UK, are we ?
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JLS on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD:

Yeah, this clinical (rather than pharmaceutical) approach to cycling is going to take a bit of getting use to.
Enty - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to JLS)
>
> We aren't very good at appreciating totally ruthless professionalism in the UK, are we ?

Nope.

And Froome chasing Valverde down would have just pissed a million Spanish off. Friends he might need in years to come.

E
Enty - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
>
> Yeah, this clinical (rather than pharmaceutical) approach to cycling is going to take a bit of getting use to.

I'm used to it - love it.

E
Byronius Maximus - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
>
> Yeah, this clinical (rather than pharmaceutical) approach to cycling is going to take a bit of getting use to.

It's not really anything new; Armstrong did it for years with great success (regardless of what may now be happening with USADA).
Andy Stephenson - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to McGuinness: Although it SHOULD be in the bag now for Wiggins, I think that Froome stuck with him in the knowledge that 10 more seconds for Wiggins is worth a stage win for Froome. There could be a mishap ahead - even in the time trial - and who can guess how many seconds he might need to have in hand. Although I agree that Froome chasing Valverde to the line would have been really exciting, I'll settle for the Brit pair blowing apart their rivals on the final ascent.
andy - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Andy Stephenson: Just finished watching that - feckin fantastic - they took time out of nibali so we (and everyone) knows they're the best riders in the race, and froome showed absolute professionalism at the end. Quite glad bradders has finally realised he's cracked it - it'd be good to see him take a minute out of froome in the tt, then see him ride selflessly for froome next year.

Allez Wiggo, allez Froome-dog!
tim000 - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Andy Stephenson: and theres a chance sky could win all 3 remaining stages :-)
Andy Stephenson - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: I'd love to see Froome in a different team from Wiggins next year so that they can fight it out. It wouldn't seem right for the respected Patron, "Le Gentleman" Wiggins to fetch and carry next time if he's still in top condition.
La Shamster on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Major Tom (RIP) must have a big smile on his face up there somewhere!

I started watching the tour 26 years ago and never dreamed of this. Maybe the great British public may finally realise on Sunday that we are a great cycling nation.

La Sham (Back from screaming "allez" at Brad in Foix) :-)
andy - on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Major Tom (RIP) must have a big smile on his face up there somewhere!
>
> I started watching the tour 26 years ago and never dreamed of this. Maybe the great British public may finally realise on Sunday that we are a great cycling nation.
>
> La Sham (Back from screaming "allez" at Brad in Foix) :-)

It's a bit emotional, isn't it? Even though it could still go wrong, every thing that people have said about them/the team has been proved wrong - absolutely fantastic. 87 was my first tour (on telly, obviously) and this is the best since Roche at La Plagne.
La Shamster on 19 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

Sure is, I cried at Major Tom's memorial on Ventoux and no doubt will do the same on Sunday afternoon!
GrahamD - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:

British support looked to be pretty impressive all race so far - is it really like that or selective camera work ?
soularch on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD: Was at stage 3 and 4, and there were loads of Brits there, real buzz about when Team Sky anything came in sight.
Yesterday was so exciting at the end, great day. Fingers crossed now. Would love to see Millar have a go at today's stage with a breakaway though..
La Shamster on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD:

Nah I reckon it's for real. There were loads in Foix with some big banners. We met Americans who were supporting Brad too.
The New NickB - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD:

It is a French TV feed so of it is selective, they are more likely to be cutting away from the Brits.
Darren Jackson - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to The New NickB:

Go on Cav!!! ... What a finish!
thermal_t - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Darren Jackson:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
>
> Go on Cav!!! ... What a finish!

Christ! Thought he had left that far too late, twice the speed of the others!
Hat Dude on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t:

That'll boost his confidence for the Olympic road race

Not that he's ever short on confidence!
dale1968 - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Darren Jackson: seen slower bullets..
La Shamster on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to dale1968:

Can't wait for the 'Champs' on Sunday - c'mon the Manx Missile 3 tour stage wins when you've spent 3 weeks being the super domestique wouldn't be bad before Box Hill!!

La Sham
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Swirly - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster: So Johound Bruyneel turned up after all.
tim000 - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:
> (In reply to Andy Stephenson) and theres a chance sky could win all 3 remaining stages :-)

:-) :-) :-) that will do for starters.
Aly - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000: That's 5 British stage wins so far isn't it? Tied first with the French. With Cancellara and Martin gone home Brad or Froome look a good bet for tomorrow, and Cav will be pretty keen to make it 4 in a row in Paris?
mark s - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Aly: if bradley keeps the jersey tomorrow,is it pretty much a given he will take the win?
Chris the Tall - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to mark s:
As far as I know, the only year that the Champs d'elysee hasn't seen a bunch sprint was the year they held time trial on it. Mind you, the big shock would be if nibbles can claw back any time at all on wiggo and froome, let alone 2 minutes. If froome were to cut the gap a bit it wouldn't make any difference
Chris the Tall - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
What a fantastic win for Cav, and how brilliant to see the malliot Jaune working so hard for one of his team mates - don't think that's something I've ever seen before

Never mind the likelihood of a Gb 1-2, we now have 5 stage wins and are odds on for another two. How many stage wins did we get in the 80s and 90s ?
Christheclimber - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:

Unfortunately I missed today's stage completely I have only just seen a short clip on the official TDF website. Looked an interesting race with Cav doing really well and being led out by Brad which as you say is unusual for the leader to do. Couldn't make out other sky team, any ideas?
andy - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Brad then EBH then Cav got back on to the two left from the breakaway with maybe 500m to go - then went past them like they were standing still.

Try itv.com - that has highlights.
Christheclimber - on 20 Jul 2012

> Try itv.com - that has highlights.

Cheers will do

Aly - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to mark s: Yeah pretty much (barring a crash or illness). As far as I understand, the etiquette is for the last stage into Paris to be a celebratory bunch ride decided by the sprinters at the end. It's not the done thing to attack* although it would probably be a fruitless endeavour anyway.

* Having said that, one of the years Armstrong won, an Italian(?) rider who's name I've forgotten attacked repeatedly on the last stage to show his disgust for an incident that occurred between him and Armstrong earlier in the tour. Armstrong's team chased down every attack.
steelbru - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Aly:
Cav compares his domestique role to like playing Wayne Rooney in defence :-).

Do folk think he'll see out the 3 years of his contract if Sky continue to concentrate on GC which seems to be the obvious thing for them to do ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18931123
andy - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Aly: It was Simeoni - it wasn't him attacking on his own, there was a six man break and Armstrong was pissed with Simeoni because he'd testified against Dr Ferrari. The peloton would havevchased down a break with Armstrong in it, so he said he'd only drop back and give the break a chance if Simeoni dropped back with him.

It wasn't the last stage either, btw!

http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/73924/armstrong_simeoni_clash_at_tour_de_france/
stouffer on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: I don't know what my favourite part of today's stage was. It's between the overhead shot of Cav going past Roche and Sanchez at about twice the speed or Sanchez gesticulating at Cav so as to suggest again that this business of other people winning instead of him is all a bit unfair...
John Rushby - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

An iconic photo of Pharmstrong whispering in Simeoni's ear, with the peloton about 400 yards back.

I suspect Mr Tested Never Caught* is about to feel some karma









*I have been nicking pens from work for years, but never been caught.......
Tiberius - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Wow! The overhead shot just looks rediculous...where are the other sprinters?

Great interviews afterwards, as above Cav going on about putting Rooney in defence :)

So good to see the yellow jacket leading out too...cant imagine Armstrong ever doing that...or any other YJ I can think of tbh.
andy - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Aly: Actually just done a bit more research on this - simeoni did have a go on his own a couple of stages later as a protest and got chased down by USP - apologies, never knew about that bit.
bobbybin - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Cavs sprint today was the most amazing piece of sprinting i've ever seen, he actually looked like he was on a motor bike compared to the other guys, mental
Chris the Tall - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:
It was an utterly despicable act by LA - I had a lot of respect for him until then.

What made it so nasty was that he caused the other riders to turn on Simeoni - they had to tell him not to spoil their party. School ground bullying at it's worst.

Hopefully a bygone era - I can't see WiggIns or Evans doing that
andy - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to andy)

>
> Hopefully a bygone era - I can't see WiggIns or Evans doing that

Nope, Evans couldn't catch 'em. ;-)
a lakeland climber on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

An interesting graphic on the BBC site showing the slow shift from Francophone to Anglophone domination of Le Tour - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18922101

ALC
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Andy Stephenson - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to bobbybin: Possibly the best of Cav's stage wins? Certainly was exciting, and with 500m left it didn't look possible but at the line he was about 1km ahead! ;-)
In reply to stouffer:
> ... or Sanchez gesticulating at Cav so as to suggest again that this business of other people winning instead of him is all a bit unfair...

Sanchez's gesture was a bit strange. It seemed to be resignation (or indignation) at being passed but then I think he expected a whole bunch of sprinters to come surging past him. He looked round and realised that Cav was so far ahead that he could still get second place. Unfortunately by that time it was too late and he had lost momentum and the others got him on the line.

Alan
Liam M - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Andy Stephenson:
> (In reply to bobbybin) Possibly the best of Cav's stage wins? Certainly was exciting, and with 500m left it didn't look possible but at the line he was about 1km ahead! ;-)

Knowing the result from a text feed, I still couldn't quite understand how it was possible as they rounded the last corner. Until he exploded onto and off of Sanchez's wheel it still seemed infeasable.
La Shamster on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

This photo from the Sky Team chef made me snigger....

http://twitter.com/teamskychef/status/226572219302678531/photo/1
Swirly - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster: In other news Menchov was allowed to drive the team car today: https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/523971_445422918831890_1445396011_n.jpg
La Shamster on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Swirly:

pmsl!
tim000 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: hoping for a GB 1-2-3 today . wiggins, froome, millar . :-)
Tiberius - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> Sanchez's gesture was a bit strange.

Post match interview with the guy who was with Sanchez was good (slipped my mind who it was), he said how he was talking with Sanchez all the way, then someone flew past and he remarked 'was that cav!' seemed as amazed as we were.

Only one I can think that even comes close was a sprint I think it was 2 years ago where he looks boxed in then suddenly springs form the middle. There's no gap, and he's boxed in, then he's at the front. There doesn't seem to be anything in between, like he teleported to the front.

Also the sprint on the Champs 2 years ago where he has the perfect leadout train and then launches so far ahead of the rest of the field that really there should have been time gaps.
Tiberius - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> Knowing the result from a text feed, I still couldn't quite understand how it was possible as they rounded the last corner.

Yeah, like you I heard it...but I thought it was a windup as they approached the line.
mark s - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: wiggins is now 1/250 to win
Enty - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
> (In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH)
> [...]
>
> Post match interview with the guy who was with Sanchez was good (slipped my mind who it was), he said how he was talking with Sanchez all the way, then someone flew past and he remarked 'was that cav!' seemed as amazed as we were.
>
>

Nicholas Roach.

Yes, the hand wave definitely looked like a gesture of resignation to me too.

E
elsewhere on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:
Your predictions are wildly optimistic yet wildly realistic!
Liam M - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Tiberius)
> [...]
>
> Nicholas Roach.

Roche - he's the son of Stephen Roche ( and Dan Martin's cousin)
>
> Yes, the hand wave definitely looked like a gesture of resignation to me too.
>

It was probably a case of 'for f*cks sake, why won't you let me win' after Sky had been on the sharp end when they caught him late in a stage a few days ago.

thermal_t - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M: Anyone know what time Froome and Wiggins are off today? The Tour's official site just crashes my work computer.
Liam M - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t: 1530 for Froome, 1533 for Wiggins I believe.
tim000 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: froome just set the fastest time at first check
tim000 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: wiggins 12 sec faster :-)
Chris the Tall - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) hoping for a GB 1-2-3 today . wiggins, froome, millar . :-)

Looking good for 1-2, but millar was pretty unwell today - still gave a good interview though. Let's hope he can recover for next saturday
ClimberEd - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Hope Twiglet keeps this up. Really want him to stamp his authority and trash everyone after what has happened in the mountains.

mark s - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: wiggins is flying,as a non cyclist im finding this utterly fantastic,you cyclists must be cumming in your pants.
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Enty - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to ClimberEd:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Hope Twiglet keeps this up. Really want him to stamp his authority and trash everyone after what has happened in the mountains.

That shut em up!

E
tim000 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to mark s:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) wiggins is flying,as a non cyclist im finding this utterly fantastic,you cyclists must be cumming in your pants.

:-o :-) :-)
tim000 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: nibbles finishes over 6 mins down over all . still not worried about wiggo now mr nibbles :-)
ClimberEd - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
> [...]
>
> That shut em up!
>
> E

Yup :) :)
Doug on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000: Never thought I'd see a British victory in la grande boucle.

And I've just heard that France 2 is going to have a special on 'les anglais dans le tour' at 18h00. Can't wait to wind-up some of my French colleagues on Monday :-)
Chris the Tall - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
Hands up all those who thought 'yeah, right' when Brailsford say we would have a British TDF winner by 2015

3 years ahead of schedule and we have a 1-2
tim000 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: i wonder what the odds are for froome winning the vaulta this year . should be a good race between him and contadope.
stonemaster - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall: a very sheepish hand up...:)
Chris the Tall - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to tim000:
He says he wants to go fo it and is clearly in great form, plus sky have the strength in depth to give him plenty of support

Much will depend on what Bertie has been doing in his time off.

And it won't be easy to beat a spainard in the Vuelta, though hopefully there won't be any phantom trains to worry about
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to tim000)
> He says he wants to go fo it and is clearly in great form, plus sky have the strength in depth to give him plenty of support

Don't forget though that it has been a while since anyone did well in consecutive Grand Tours of the big three. There was a good program on Dutch TV that described how you can never take enough calories in during a grand tour and as such you are running on borrowed time afterwards until you actually give it a chance to recover. I remember Wiggins saying much the same thing a few years ago.

19 August is only 28 days away.

Alan
tim000 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: bit of a tall order i think . also got the olympics as well.
La Shamster on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Just caught the highlights am now blubbing like a baby!:-)
La Shamster on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:

Think Ned and Brad only just held it together in the post TT interview.
elsewhere on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
> Hands up all those who thought 'yeah, right' when Brailsford say we would have a British TDF winner by 2015

I didn't think Brailsford/Sky could do it and I didn't think Wiggins could do it either.

DO NOT listen to my punditry!
Chris the Tall - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:

>
> 19 August is only 28 days away.
>
I must admit I was surprised when he said it, and wondered if there was an element of him saying how much he had left in the tank

Carlos Sastre managed 3rd in the Vuelta the year he won the tour, and was top 4 in both events for the previous 2 years. He even finished all three in the top 20 in 2010, which is pretty incredible
Christheclimber - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Just caught the highlights am now blubbing like a baby!:-)

Blub away..... Brad was incredible today and very humble in the post race interview. Incredible effort throughout the Tour and well done to Chris Froome, all we need now is for Cav to win tomorrow to become the most successful sprinter in the Tour's history.

Christheclimber - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to bobbybin:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) I'm still not convinced that Wiggo wont have a bad day in the mountains and lose big chunks of time. Happened to Evans in the Giro before.

Well he didn't................
andy - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to ClimberEd)
> [...]
>
> That shut em up!
>
> E

I wonder if Froome's lass will shut up now too. She seems to think he'd have pissed it had they let him go in the alps.

I hope Froome wins the Vuelta or even the Tour next year, but this year's course was made for Wiggo with 100km of ITT.
Tiberius - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Well, with that amazing ride by wiggo, we've almost forgot the amazing sprint by Cav yesterday...well hopefully we will have another amazing sprint tomorrow, maybe with an amazing leadout by the amazing yellow jersey :) to finish off a totally amazing cycling year for the UK...and the Olympics havn't even started yet.
Tiberius - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:
> Hands up all those who thought 'yeah, right' when Brailsford say we would have a British TDF winner by 2015

Following what he did at the last Olympics, I think a knighthood is not enough. Can we vote him for god?
Christheclimber - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall)
> [...]
>
> Following what he did at the last Olympics, I think a knighthood is not enough. Can we vote him for god?

Plus sports personality of the year
andy - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
> (In reply to Tiberius)
> [...]
>
> Plus sports personality of the year

Wasn't sure if the previous post referred to Brailsford or Wiggo.

Wiggo for SPOTY you'd hope, but who knows what'll happen at the Limpicks. Sky HAVE to get team of the year.
Wanderer100 - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: What a great day tomorrow is going to be with the first ever GB TDF winner and the manx missile being unleashed with a super charged turbo express Team Sky release over the winning line. Makes you want to wave a union jack and shout 'come on you beauty". Wish I was there!
thermal_t - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
> [...]
> Wiggo for SPOTY you'd hope, but who knows what'll happen at the Limpicks. Sky HAVE to get team of the year.

Team Sky winning BBC SPOTY team of the year, ouch!
Bingers - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Anybody else want to admit to moist eyes as Wiggo crossed the line today?
Enty - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Bingers:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Anybody else want to admit to moist eyes as Wiggo crossed the line today?

I'll admit to it during his interview.

E
thermal_t - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Bingers:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Anybody else want to admit to moist eyes as Wiggo crossed the line today?

Yep, not afraid to admit it!
Horse on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Bingers:

I got that out the way the other day after he finished the last mountain stage.
Byronius Maximus - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to Bingers:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Anybody else want to admit to moist eyes as Wiggo crossed the line today?

Me!
Chris the Tall - on 21 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t:
> (In reply to andy)
> [...]
>
> Team Sky winning BBC SPOTY team of the year, ouch!

With all the footage coming from Itv 4 !

Well done to ITV for putting in the main channel today, but why on earth is it usually on such an obscure channel ? Mind you, I wonder how long before sky snap up the rights - I know in the past ASO wanted to make sure it was on a terrestrial channel, but sky have some serious clout now. Then again, maybe they like getting free advertising on their rivals!

I'd hesitate on any SPOTY bets until after the Olympics, but DB has to be coach of the year
Christheclimber - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Byronius Maximus:

Brad is the man what a great tour
Christheclimber - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

I think I will have a sore head in the morning...............
stonemaster - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Bingers:

> Anybody else want to admit to moist eyes as Wiggo crossed the line today?

oh all right then, <sniffle>
idiotproof (Buxton MC) - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

What time UK time will they be crossing the line.... Give or take?
Liam M - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to idiotproof (Buxton MC): The schedule has the fastest finish at 1709 French time, so 1609 UK time. That is a rather optimistic pace it's based upon though. http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2012/us/days-stage.html
La Shamster on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:

I disagree DB should be coach of the century and should be knighted by 6pm tomorrow! :-)

They should then clone him and put him in charge of the England football team.
alan wilson on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall: Lord I sure hope they dont EVER get the rights, it's bad enough as it is. Loathe sky.....
andy - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M: They said on ITV4 that every year the French try to get it so the podium presentation can be shown live, and every year the riders tit about so much getting to Paris that they miss it. Still - they've only got about 75km to do before the Champs so maybe they'll be on time this year!
abr1966 - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Byronius Maximus:
> (In reply to Bingers)
> [...]
>
> Me!

I will also....it was touching to see what it meant to him at interview yesterday as it really is a life long focused thing for him. I was in the pub last night talking to mates and saying how we used to have photos of Kelly, Millar and Roache on our bedroom walls in the early 80's and to see an English winner that we have watched since his early olympic days is quite something...
nonymouse - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Well, I'm no cyclist but I wish Wiggo all the best. He's done GB proud - and what a difference to the overpaid, loud-mouthed spoilt brats who play football.
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La Shamster on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to nonymouse:

Quite - Team Sky get something like £650,000 for winning the tour. Rooney probably earns that in 2.5 weeks and wasn't fit enough when they played Italy.
mark s - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster: imagine if a footballer had been knocked off a bike by a bloody great dog.he would still be rolling around on the floor whilst the peleton smash past the eiffel tower.
footballers are divas,very fit divas but cyclists like these are another level
woolsack - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:
> (In reply to nonymouse)
>
> Quite - Team Sky get something like £650,000 for winning the tour. Rooney probably earns that in 2.5 weeks and wasn't fit enough when they played Italy.

And every rider is equally good on their left and right foot!
Enty - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:

Remember 4 days ago when Sorenson trapped his fingers in the spokes? Well he's booked in for plastic surgery tomorrow - after he finishes the race today!!!

E
Graeme Alderson on 22 Jul 2012
Enty - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Graeme Alderson:

Yes - Those were the days.

E
Christheclimber - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

A perfect day and finish for sky well done Brad and well done Cav great to see such a fine lead out and finish.
abr1966 - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Bloody awesome....all round brilliant....!!
stonemaster - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: PARTY!!!! for those so inclined...:)
Minneconjou Sioux - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Excellent!
andy - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to stonemaster: It has to be unique - the bloody maillot jaune leading it out with 1km to go.
stonemaster - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to andy: yup...:)
Liam M - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Champagne popped as Cav crossed the line.:)
shaggypops - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: i is sheddin a couple of tears
abr1966 - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to shaggypops: What is that dress and national anthem like....bloody hell!
JuneBob on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:
Bit of a musical catastrophe at the end there...
Christheclimber - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) Champagne popped as Cav crossed the line.:)

I'm having mine later
nonymouse - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Brilliant finish only spoilt by Catherine Jenkins trying to sing the National Anthem. Couldn't they have got an orchestra or a band?
simondgee - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to nonymouse:
it would have been tasty with catherine jenkins... however it was leslie bleeding garrett ...
abr1966 - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to nonymouse: I thought Froome and Wiggins were a bit 'distant' on the podium but just seen the interview with Froome and he seemed genuine just not too polished in the media side of things...
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Chris Shorter - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to nonymouse:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) Brilliant finish only spoilt by Catherine Jenkins trying to sing the National Anthem. Couldn't they have got an orchestra or a band?

It wasn't Catherine Jenkins, it was Lesley Garrett! Catherine will be mortified by your comment as she's about 30 years younger!

Tiberius - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to stonemaster) It has to be unique - the bloody maillot jaune leading it out with 1km to go.

Absolutely, but don't you think it actually added a British sporting sense to the occasion? I can't see any other Maillot Jaune in the history of the tour doing it, but it added a sense of 'fair play' that I think we somehow quintessentially British :)
stonemaster - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: It will be remembered for Wiggo's actions after the tacks business as well. All hail Wiggo!
nonymouse - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris Shorter: Apologies

"we're here to draw out tickets for the raffle"

Brilliant!

Alan
Nigel Modern on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

:O)

Biggest cheesy grin ever.

I was on the Champs Elysee in '83(?) for Fignon's first win, never thought I'd see an English speaking rider win it...then 25 years ago Stephen Roche did it...and now...
biped - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to stonemaster:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) PARTY!!!! for those so inclined...:)

Oh yes! Legends chased caught and made by Wiggo and Cav. Jesus, I'm lost for words. Awesome.

Christheclimber - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) Champagne popped as Cav crossed the line.:)

Cheers I'm celebrating now
Clint86 - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: Its going to be crowded at the road race next weekend....
thermal_t - on 22 Jul 2012
Incredible day for British cycling! When can we start talking about Cavendish overtaking Merckx for the amount of stage wins record? 11 to go!
mark s - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to thermal_t: brilliant,its reignighting my love for cycling i had in my teens.
can imagine bike shops been busy tomorrow.
when that garret came on to sing i had to turn it off,what a pile of shit.
wiggins coming around the last couple of bends leading the pack was an amazing sight.
Doug on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to mark s: I'm no fan of God save the Queen as an anthem but that version was gruesome - was she chosen by the French as some form of revenge ?
Douglas Griffin - on 22 Jul 2012
tim000 - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

brilliant :-)
Graham T - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Douglas Griffin:


Thats awesome, the singing was properly painful to listen too. Glad it wasn't just the tv making it sound awful
JLS on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to La Shamster:

Well done the big Englishman but I fear he may have peaked too soon to be a force in the Southport CC 25TT.
andy - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Douglas Griffin: That is utterly priceless!
John Rushby - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:

Utterly dreadful that anthem.

Leisurely Garret looked like a drag queen and had a face likea runny egg.

did anyone clock the bloke in the white t shirt on the podium, as Bradley was being handed the yellow jersey ? He seems to go apeshit bonkers at something while Bradley looked on bemused...


Needless to say, that was an awesome performance. Just off to other threads now - seems the haters are all out banging on about him being Belgian.....
nonymouse - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Says itall

frankbabs - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber:

Rejoice, rejoice; Wiggins must and SHOULD be the person to light the Olympic Flame, surely!!!!
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woolsack - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
> Just off to other threads now - seems the haters are all out banging on about him being Belgian.....

He'd be the first famous Belgian then!
In reply to Doug:
> (In reply to mark s) I'm no fan of God save the Queen as an anthem but that version was gruesome - was she chosen by the French as some form of revenge ?

Can't polish a turd!
Christheclimber - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to frankbabs:
> (In reply to Christheclimber)
>
> Rejoice, rejoice; Wiggins must and SHOULD be the person to light the Olympic Flame, surely!!!!

Wiggo is the man
sleavesley on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to woolsack: That Eddy Merkx is pretty famous, not a bad cyclist too!

Back to OP:

Great win for Bradley Wiggins and Team sky, I can't be the only one hoping it opens avenues and revenues, bringing cycling in the UK to a standard comparative or better than our European counterparts, both in terms of recreational cyclists and at grassroots.
Tiberius - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> (In reply to mark s) I'm no fan of God save the Queen as an anthem but that version was gruesome - was she chosen by the French as some form of revenge ?
>
> Can't polish a turd!

I just drove down to Sheffield and they played Jerusalem...In England's Green and Pleasant Land...couldn't help thinking how much better it would be as the national anthem.
wee jamie on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to woolsack:
> (In reply to John Rushby)
> [...]
>
> He'd be the first famous Belgian then!

Django Reinhardt!!!!

(the greatest guitarist there ever was)
TimB - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
> (In reply to andy)


> did anyone clock the bloke in the white t shirt on the podium, as Bradley was being handed the yellow jersey ? He seems to go apeshit bonkers at something while Bradley looked on bemused...
>
>

Why do you think they keep Hinault on hand? It's for this kind of delicate crowd control:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tour-de-france/stage-20/photos/232777
John Rushby - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to TimB:

ah, so that's what he was up to - Brad looked very bemused....
a lakeland climber on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:

The BBC are reporting that Cav would be allowed to leave Sky if he feels that their GC ambitions are hampering him. They were quoting Dave Brailsford.

ALC
IMA - on 22 Jul 2012
Congrats to Wiggins, but now to the future. Will Sky be able to create a dynasty? I know they have quality riders but is it possible to control the sport in such a manner?

Can they keep the team together? Froome has been touted as a possible departure but I see no reason why he would if told he next year he can fight for #1 and then see who the team helps.

Will Cav stay? HTC had a team that was based to help him, now he is a cog in the machine ( yet still winning stages and being helped by the 'main man')?

Random thoughts from an ignorant novice.

PS is the prize money as small as suggested, think I heard just over 500k for the top 2? Or is money handed out during the stages as well? (going to google it later but thought I'd ask while I remembered)
MJ - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to woolsack:

He'd be the first famous Belgian then!

Apart from Poirot...
biped - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Hi Doug!
Tiberius - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to IMA:
> PS is the prize money as small as suggested

How much does a footballer get for winning the FA cup? It's more about sponsorship etc. A bit difficult to appreciate here in the uk as cycling is not so big, but in Europe it's massive.

If you read Armstrong's books, he explains that the prize money for the winner is actually split amongst the team (not just the riders). The winner doesn't actually keep any of it...but he gets a lot more back in sponsorship.
Chris the Tall - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
>
> seems the haters are all out banging on about him being Belgian.....

hearing that dirge of an anthem i bet he wished he was Belgian for a moment. I wished I was

They ought to have flown Paul weller in to sing something, anything, just not a dirge asking a non-existent deity to protect an old biddy who's never riden a bike!!

Btw - hands up those who thought Cav had gone too early ?
Mooncat - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall:

>
> Btw - hands up those who thought Cav had gone too early ?

I was yelling at the telly because I thought Boasson Hagen had screwed up the lead out, I had to watch 2 replays before I was convinced it was Cav getting frisky.

andy - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Chris the Tall: Apparently she was there to "promote" the yorkshire bid for the grand depart (or t'reet big kick off). Gawd help us.

And watching the last three years' sprints Cav certainly went a lot earlier than he had before - i wondered whether EBH had maybe run out of steam or gone a bit wide?
ml706 - on 22 Jul 2012
Noob question - having seen the article where Brailsford says Cavendish can go as they don't have the resources to meet his ambitions with their focus on the GC, I was wondering- why don't they?

Is it because they need to commit extra men to a lead out, but surely if they are targetting the yellow jersey they would want men near the front anyway?

This is my first tour and I can't believe I've never watched it before! That last 1km was amazing!

IMA - on 22 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: Cheers, I appreciate that sponsorship and endorsements is where most of the individual money would come from (like any other sport).

Was because the figures I had heard for cycling appeared to be fairly low for such a major event (600k for Team Sky which would appear very little compared to the costs of running a team in 1 tour alone)

The Armstrong book worth a read? Have just downloaded Millars book for a wet days read.

Andy if she was the promotion, I believe Yorkshire can accept the loss fairly early on just like I have accepted the odds of another poor season from Liverpool.
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to IMA:
> ...Cheers, I appreciate that sponsorship and endorsements is where most of the individual money would come from (like any other sport).

Max Clifford is quoted in the Metro this morning as saying it's probably worth around £20 Million to Wiggins. Even given a bit of journalistic license, and most of that going to managers and hangers-on, it's still not bad :)

> The Armstrong book worth a read?

No.

> Have just downloaded Millars book for a wet days read.

It's worth a read any day.

> Andy if she was the promotion, I believe Yorkshire can accept the loss fairly early on

They'd have been better handing out eccles cakes and warm pork pie's with mint sauce :)

In her defence, I don't think it's possible to do a 'good' rendition of our anthem is it? Although Jimmie Hendrix's version wasn't too bad :)
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to ml706:
> Noob question - having seen the article where Brailsford says Cavendish can go as they don't have the resources to meet his ambitions with their focus on the GC, I was wondering- why don't they?

The sprinters need to control the front of the peloton from quite a way out, that will take perhaps 4 people, plus the sprinter.

The GC contenders just need to be there, not to control it. At HTC, the whole team was dedicated to cav, not just controlling the peloton, but pacing him over the mountains too.

Take a look at the last few times Cav won at Paris and you see the train acting from a long way out, there were half a dozen bikes in a line with Cav at the back, and they did that on pretty much all 'flat' stages.

Sky did a reasonable job at paris, the surreal sight of the Maillot Jeane taking the front with 1K to go has got to be one of the classic TDF sights in it's entire history, but there's no way they could do it on all stages.

Plus even given the reasonable job they did, Cav still had a lot to do, the ease with which he won says a lot about his own quality, and perhaps a little about the lack of talent in the others.
elsewhere on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
> did anyone clock the bloke in the white t shirt on the podium, as Bradley was being handed the yellow jersey ? He seems to go apeshit bonkers at something while Bradley looked on bemused...

Bernard Hinault likes an orderly podium

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/video-bernard-hinault-likes-an-orderly-podium_231366
kevin stephens - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: All this talk of Cav leaving Sky seems to be a bit of a red herring when there were a lot fewer stages favouring a bunch sprint in the 2012 TdF?
Liam M - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to kevin stephens:
> (In reply to Tiberius) All this talk of Cav leaving Sky seems to be a bit of a red herring when there were a lot fewer stages favouring a bunch sprint in the 2012 TdF?

I think it's more that he wasn't there on a few stages when it did favour the mass gallop. He would always struggle with Liege or Boulogne but early on coming into Rouen or St Quentin he wasn't shepherded to the front as he may have been with HTC.

Though I agree it's not fair to compare the number of victories ( 6 stages may have suited if he was in the right place)

Interestingly, whilst Sagan matched the highest number of victories, he seemed to clean up green in a similar way to Hushovd a few years ago ( i.e. chasing lots of intermediate sprints) and being there or there abouts at the end, that I believe lead to a change in the green jersey comp!
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to kevin stephens:

Yes, I think so. There were fewer flat stages at this one, plus he was unlucky on at least one, crashing out, there may have been one or two others where he had an outside chance, but he never wins every sprint stage anyway.

Probably the main disadvantage is it's tricky for him to target the green jersey, how important that is for him compared with overall stage wins, I don't know.
fxceltic on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: the whole 3 weeks has been great and yesterday was a suitably brilliant finish.

I did find the whole union jack/ lesley garrat thing a bit distasteful though.
The tour has been run on the basis of trade teams for over 40 years now, not sure such a big deal should be made of nationality. Even DB going on about sky being a british team isnt right really. Theres a few brits in it, but thats it really.

Couldnt be happier for BW though.
Doug on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic: I'm sure if a French cyclist had one the French media would have made a big fuss about it - I've been watching the French TV coverage & although they can hardly ignore Wiggins, there's a lot of air time for Voeckler & Rolland.

On Friday evening they showed a short documentary on British participation in the tour which featured film of a 'British/English' team, can't remember the year but maybe 1970s ? was that about the time that trade teams became normal ?
fxceltic on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Doug:
> (In reply to fxceltic) I'm sure if a French cyclist had one the French media would have made a big fuss about it - I've been watching the French TV coverage & although they can hardly ignore Wiggins, there's a lot of air time for Voeckler & Rolland.
>
> On Friday evening they showed a short documentary on British participation in the tour which featured film of a 'British/English' team, can't remember the year but maybe 1970s ? was that about the time that trade teams became normal ?

trade teams was the norm from 69 i think, prior to that they dallied both ways, so to speak

Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> I did find the whole union jack/ lesley garrat thing a bit distasteful though.

I found it embarrassingly off target rather than distasteful. Garret is I think a respected opera singer, I guess she would rather perform to people who are appreciative of her work than a crowd of people who mostly think she's just making a din.

As I said above, on the radio I heard a similar singer doing Jerusalem, now personally I'd rather listen to Geddy Lee, but it was at least interesting compared with the material she had to work with.
Enty - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Doug)
> [...]
>
> trade teams was the norm from 69 i think, prior to that they dallied both ways, so to speak

Yeah, 67 and 68 were for national teams. In 67 when Tom Simpson died on The Ventoux he was racing with a weak GB team - they came last in the team classification.

E
Calder - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Christheclimber) the whole 3 weeks has been great and yesterday was a suitably brilliant finish.
>
> ....
> The tour has been run on the basis of trade teams for over 40 years now, not sure such a big deal should be made of nationality. Even DB going on about sky being a british team isnt right really. Theres a few brits in it, but thats it really.
>
> ....

It is a British team, was conceived in Britain by a Brit. The nationality of the riders has no bearing on that. Just like Liquigas is an Italian team (Sagan is not Italian) and Manchester City are a Manchester team (most of the team are not Mancs).

As for the national anthem, it's for the winning rider who is representing his country. Same happens in F1. If nothing else it gives them a couple of minutes to stand there as bask/savour in the glory they have just achieved.
IMA - on 23 Jul 2012
> (In reply to fxceltic)
If nothing else it gives them a couple of minutes to stand there as bask/savour in the glory they have just achieved.


Or just look bemused at the entire thing

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9420000/Tour-de-France-2012-Lesl...
Calder - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to IMA:
> [...]
> If nothing else it gives them a couple of minutes to stand there as bask/savour in the glory they have just achieved.
>
>
> Or just look bemused at the entire thing
>
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/tour-de-france/9420000/Tour-de-France-2012-Lesl...

Aye, or that!

It's doing the full rounds that pic, I wouldn't be surprised if half the country has seen it by the end of the day.
fxceltic on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Calder:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
> [...]
>
> It is a British team, was conceived in Britain by a Brit. The nationality of the riders has no bearing on that. Just like Liquigas is an Italian team (Sagan is not Italian) and Manchester City are a Manchester team (most of the team are not Mancs).
>
> As for the national anthem, it's for the winning rider who is representing his country. Same happens in F1. If nothing else it gives them a couple of minutes to stand there as bask/savour in the glory they have just achieved.

a good percentage of the full roster is british, but the "strongest" team wouldnt be really. I know DB is a brit and hes based in britain, however you dont have home games like in football, and liquigas is italian because of the sponsor, which would more likely make sky australian by the same logic no?

I just find it unnecessary and gives the moaners something to moan about, like those saying BW is belgian, come on, thats just pathetic. Hes actually more australian than he is belgian.
Swirly - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> and liquigas is italian because of the sponsor, which would more likely make sky australian by the same logic no?
>

Depends where the team is registered rather than the nationality of the sponsor. One of the big teams was Irish for a while.
Calder - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to fxceltic:
> (In reply to Calder)
> [...]
>
> ... and liquigas is italian because of the sponsor, which would more likely make sky australian by the same logic no?
>
> I just find it unnecessary and gives the moaners something to moan about, like those saying BW is belgian, come on, thats just pathetic. Hes actually more australian than he is belgian.

Murdoch might be an Aussie, but Sky is BSkyB - British Sky Broadcasting, no? ie. British.

And moaners will always find something to moan about!
Swirly - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Swirly:
> (In reply to fxceltic)
> [...]
>
> Depends where the team is registered rather than the nationality of the sponsor. One of the big teams was Irish for a while.


In fact Colnago-CSF are currently Irish and Farnese Vini are British!

(from wikipedia, can't post the link as it's too long)
dale1968 - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Calder: hilarious, wife did say she was out of key, just did not sound good to me!
Pinch'a'salt on 23 Jul 2012
General discussion point (and in no way wishing to diminish Wiggin's win)- which is the more significant achievement in cycling terms: Wiggins taking GC (somebody does this every year, albeit of varying nationality) or Cav's 4 in a row on the Champs (nearest rival is 2 non-consecutive wins)?
MJH - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> Interestingly, whilst Sagan matched the highest number of victories, he seemed to clean up green in a similar way to Hushovd a few years ago ( i.e. chasing lots of intermediate sprints) and being there or there abouts at the end, that I believe lead to a change in the green jersey comp!

Sagan was just phenomenal - his day on one of the Pyreneean stages was just incredible. OK he isn't the best sprinter, but he is so consistent (even more so than Hushovd IMO).

You've got to think that with a bit more luck and a team built round him that Cav could have won a few more stages (eg perhaps the ones Greipel won), but I guess it really depends on what Cav's focus is going to be over the next few years. 3 stage wins is hardly a poor return and if he gets the Olympic RR etc perhaps he will consider that a decent return!
MJH - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Pinch'a'salt: From a British point of view - Wiggins.
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danm - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Pinch'a'salt:

For me, the most significant achievement was the combination of both. For the yellow jersey to lead out his team sprinter twice in the final week, well, it's completely unprecedented. To have that much left in the tank, that much confidence, and to be prepared to take that much risk in order to pay back a team mate, well this says a great deal about the whole Sky setup.
GrahamD - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Pinch'a'salt:

I'm not sure I understand this "Cav has sacrificed himself for the cause" line,when he chose to sign for a team that made no secret that it was going for the main event
In reply to MJH:
> (In reply to Pinch'a'salt) From a British point of view - Wiggins.

From anyone's point of view - Wiggins by a mile!

Cav would be the first to agree.

Alan
Pinch'a'salt on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to GrahamD:

I don't disagree (and its not a point that I made).

In reply to Alan James & others:

From a British point of view then yes, Wiggins; but the question was from a general (ie global) cycling point of view... if you were a neutral would you be more impressed by somebody winning the GC, an achievement which happens every year, or by a 4th consecutive sprint victory in arguably the most famous sprint finish in the world, a feat which no one in the past has come close to matching...

Anyway, hats off to all of Team Sky, a stunning collective team performance!

Lets hope the momentum keeps rolling to Saturday's road race & the ITT after that.
MJH - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Pinch'a'salt: I am not sure that the two are comparable - they are such different events.

The fact that someone wins the Tour every year doesn't diminish the achievement! Cav is one of the greatest (if not the greatest now he surely will be by the time he retires) sprinters the world has ever seen, but that is part of the beauty of cycling ie the different aspects to it.
wbo - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Christheclimber: It is tricky to say what's more significant as both are, but historically Cav's 4, plus one in a rainbow jersey I suspect as no rider from another nationality has done it. To compare it to the yellow jersey in terms of 'who's the better cyclist' is akin to comparing a boulderer to an alpine specialist.

Wiggo's turn in the last kilometer was just astounding to watch - look at it on youtube and watch the guy from Liquigas turning himself insideout trying to match it and jsut falling back. That track nonsense turned out useful in the end. Cav's sprint was pretty amazing too as he really went a long way out and never looked to be caught, showing some real strengh.

Sagan is a great classics rider and his stint in the mountains was great. If you'd asked me a week ago who I thought was favourite for next Sat I'd have said him, but after the last few days I'd fancy SuperCav.
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to wbo:
> ...It is tricky to say what's more significant as both are,

I think after 100 years, to finally get a winner, THIS year Wiggins achievement is the more significant...for cycling in Britain. Cav has been the best sprinter for a few years now, this year he confirmed it, even confirming his status as the greatest ever TDF sprinter at last.

In a (very) few years time, maybe we will have another tour winner in Froome, and Cav will be overtaking the iconic Eddy Mercx in overall stage wins (but doing it clean), then I guess the 'significance' will switch to Cav.
In reply to Pinch'a'salt:
> if you were a neutral would you be more impressed by somebody winning the GC, an achievement which happens every year, or by a 4th consecutive sprint victory in arguably the most famous sprint finish in the world, a feat which no one in the past has come close to matching...

Sorry, but during the first week I didn't hear Cav saying, "we are here to make sure I win a 4th stage on the Champs", he said consistently that they were there with bigger aims and that was to win the biggest thing in cycling namely the yellow jersey in the Tour.

No, it hasn't been done before but then again it isn't really an aim in itself. Has anyone specifically tried to do it before? Was Cav trying to do it when he won the first two or three?

There is only one thing bigger in cycling than winning the Tour and that is winning it twice, (or 5 times, or 7 times).

Alan
Liam M - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to wbo: It does make for an interesting question about what RR tactics will be next Saturday. At the end of the first week I think you could be forgiven for wondering if Cav had lost his edge, but the last few days have quelled that idea.

So given the rest of the team are likely to be able to pull so hard, and he seems almost untouchable if he stays upright in a bunch sprint, are the British team going to have to do it alone? Will everyone else be desperate to get in a break and make little effort to bring it back? How will the Aussies face it? Just how painful will the pace on Box Hill be? This could hopefully be a brilliant race.
Liam M - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH: For a long time there was talk of him wanting one specific stage. He didn't make a huge deal of it during the early part of the Tour, but as the rest would be wrapped up by then there was little hiding that he wanted at least a fighting chance in Paris.
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Liam M:
> ...are the British team going to have to do it alone?

Actually David Miller covered this quite well in an interview during the tour. There are 2 or 3 other nationalities who have sprinters, so although they may not 'expect' to beat Cav, having a go is their only real option. As such they will assist GB in chasing down break-aways.

As we saw in a few stages, it's always possible for Cav to get it wrong, or for pure chance to get in the way and Grieple for example comes in with the win...in fact going on the tour, it's almost a 50-50 between Cav and Grieple so why shouldn't they try?
Enty - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to MJH)
> [...]
>
> From anyone's point of view - Wiggins by a mile!
>
> Cav would be the first to agree.
>
> Alan

I agree too - can't compare the two. It's like saying what's best? - winning the Premier League once or the League Cup 4 times.

E
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Enty:

I don't think it really compares like that tbh. In 20 years time, Wiggins will still have been a one-off (ok, maybe twice) winner of the tour. But Cav will quite likely still be the greatest sprinter it has ever seen.

This year, Wiggins yes, but in 2 or 3 years time, Cav will perhaps have gained longer term achievements over the years.
Liam M - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius: The Germans, the Aussies and possibly the Americans (though with the season Farrar has had, they may want to try other options) are geared toward the sprint, so it could be interesting to see their tactics.

Though I've read suggestions that Greipel may struggle more with Box Hill than most so that may shake things up.

I'm just enjoying wildly speculating, and building up my own excitement level, so my musings may occasionally be erratic! :)
JLS on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:

I really wondered if Cav was giving a 100% in some of the sprint stages. Here's a conspiracy theory for you.. Perhaps looking beatable in a few stages was a plan to encourage a more teams in London to ride for a sprint finish.
Toby_W on 23 Jul 2012
For GB it's clearly Cav because every BBC news report I've seen has said wiggins has won the tour and then shown a clip of Cav crossing the line.

Having said that nothing can spoil Wiggos win for me. Terrific in so many ways.

cheers

Toby
JLS on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:

Though it has to be said I think he was lucky to get away with going so early in Paris. I recon Sagan had the beating of him but guess he just didn't count on Cav messing it up from the position he was in. Sagan I think will be kicking himself or be it not so hard on the basis he won a fair bit.
gingerdave13 - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to stouffer: missed the friday highlights (well ok weekend - due to being in n.wales) but total OMG, what a sprint. He absolutely came out of knowhere to blast past those guys! Champs in comparison was a bit lame and he had that one in the bag. Leadout guys did one helluva a job including wiggo.
shaggypops - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Alan James - UKC and UKH: Rob Hayles said Cav told him he was there specifically to win one stage and that stage had not been one before the final stage.
a lakeland climber on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to shaggypops:

General question - at the end of each stage there would be shots of the wearer of the yellow jersey signing several jerseys (I assume the other competition leaders also do this). What do Le Tour organisers do with these- sell them; auction them off; give them to sponsors or distribute to fans?

ALC
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Coups - on 23 Jul 2012
There are a number of points in this thread that I would like to comment on, as an ex roadie. I am delighted that Wiggo has won and the fact that he is a respected by the French is an indication that he has won this cleanly. A number of the top, former riders have since admitted taking performance enhancing drugs and suggested it was the norm to keep a contract.
Personally, I would love to see a resurgance in cycling on our roads, but coming from the crowded north west, having ridden recently in the quiet Cotswolds near Oxford and experienced the roads of France, I am going to stick to mountain biking until that time when all our old railway lines allow traffic free access into cities and/or our drivers show the same courtesy and respect to cyclists that the French do.
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to JLS:
> (In reply to Tiberius)
>
> I really wondered if Cav was giving a 100% in some of the sprint stages. Here's a conspiracy theory for you.

It's a reasonable conspiracy theory, in fact it was discussed/suggested by Phil Ligget and Chris Boardman...but anyone who has followed Cav knows that he never, ever gives less than 110% It's not in his nature. Nor does he need to, he's a class ahead of everyone else, as proven on Friday and Sunday.

He crashed on one, backed off an another stage where the uphill finish didn't suit him, and another he got stranded at the front and went way too early.

Those of you who think he was in trouble on Sunday, take another look. He looks round well before the line, judges where the others are and backs off a bit, he was never in danger, he judged it perfectly.
Arms Cliff - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Tiberius:
...but anyone who has followed Cav knows that he never, ever gives less than 110% It's not in his nature.

It's impossible to give 110%.
BelleVedere on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to andy:
> (In reply to Chris the Tall) Apparently she was there to "promote" the yorkshire bid for the grand depart (or t'reet big kick off). Gawd help us.
>
>

As someone supporting Edinburgh's bid can i just say - YES!
Tiberius - on 23 Jul 2012
In reply to Arms Cliff:
> It's impossible to give 110%.

You're good at maths, but I guess you've never been a professional athlete :P
Liam M - on 24 Jul 2012
In reply to Arms Cliff:
> (In reply to Tiberius)
> ...but anyone who has followed Cav knows that he never, ever gives less than 110% It's not in his nature.
>
> It's impossible to give 110%.

Not even if you quite literally leave some of yourself on the road? ;)
kevin stephens - on 27 Jul 2012
In reply to John Rushby:
> (In reply to andy)
Just off to other threads now - seems the haters are all out banging on about him being Belgian.....

I read in Turkish Airlins' in-flight magazine this morning that "Belgium's Bradley Wiggins is strongly tipped to win the 2012 TdF"


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