/ Grivel G14 or Black Diamond Cyborgs?

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andybrown114 - on 20 Jul 2012
I am looking to get some more aggressive crampons as my blunt as buggery G12s aren't really cutting the mustard on grade 5 ice any more. I'm looking at either Grivel G14s or Black Diamond Cyborgs. Any thoughts?
gear boy - on 20 Jul 2012
In reply to andybrown114: get the ones that fit the boot best, take your boot into store and fit them, if you know enough fit them yourself, otherwise find the real climber in the shop to do it, depending on boot and size you may need asymetric bar or long bar
alasdair19 on 24 Jul 2012
In reply to andybrown114: neither. use the G12s for mixed and get petzl dart. you will feel the weight difference over the G14s the cyborgs apparently don't perform.
CurlyStevo - on 24 Jul 2012
In reply to alasdair19: lots of people find dual points best for most ice except black ice and monos for mixed.
Andy Mountains - on 24 Jul 2012
In reply to alasdair19:

Good point. I use old scarpa cumbres with G14s and the combined weight is pretty horrific.
Mr Poo - on 27 Jul 2012
In reply to andybrown114:

I own the Cyborgs if I was to buy again I would get the G14's.
The G14's have a better ABS plate and they seem to fit a broader range of boots.

If you were going to go down the MONO route DON"T buy the Petzl Dart
GET the Grivel G20 instead.

Grivel makes the BEST Crampons money can buy, They CAN"T make climbing axes to save the lives BUT they Know Crampons!
cliff shasby - on 28 Jul 2012
In reply to andybrown114: i absolutely hated the g20's,couldnt climb for shit in them,went back to my terminators.
if you only want them for steep ice,the rambo's are hard to beat,although the new bd stingers look good,but i guess the rambo's would still have the edge being ridgid but not really good at anything else...
muFF1n - on 29 Jul 2012
In reply to andybrown114: For ice and mixed I've been through Stubai (don't even remember name), 4 Generations of Rambos, Cyborgs (frame broke), Darts, Simond Monoceros (it can't get more bouncy), G20's, Raveltik Spider only to come back to the current Rambo 4:
Yes there are some annoyances (Antibott disintegrating and grivel website is dysfunctional) but they're unmatched in terms of stiffness, penetration, balance and of course the material they use which is easily sharpened, holds well but is soft enough to stick on rock.
Rambos could be lighter, but I wouldn't trade a single gram for less stiffness - even when using pebax boots.
Of course I also use semi-rigid crampons, but not for higher grade climbing anymore, really.

Btw., I have very similar experiences with tools: I have used Nomics, 2 last generations of Quarks, Fusion, Cobra, Viper with different picks/mods etc.
But nothing even comes close to Grivels X Monster: they stick at first strike, release without effort, are extremely reliable (I've several times broken one of the "important" plastics on other tools), fit in frozen cracks and between columns, their picks are unmatched in longevity and you can buy 4 tools for the same you get 2 from other vendors.
The current version also allows the attachment of full size carabiners at the bottom.

(no, my other name isn't Steve ;)
iksander on 31 Jul 2012
In reply to andybrown114: Petzl Lynx if they fit
edinburgh_man on 31 Jul 2012
In reply to cliff shasby:

Rambo's climb mixed really well. They are stiffer and IMHO climb better than both the G20 and the Dart. The down side is they are heavier - but if you can stomach the increase in weight thay perform brilliantly.

Cheers
edinburgh_man on 31 Jul 2012
In reply to alasdair19:

Why would you use the G12's for mixed?

Myself and vast majority of the people that I climb with prefer a mono for mixed, and really like horizontal's for ice unless it is old / very hard.

Whatever bakes your cake I guess.
edinburgh_man on 31 Jul 2012
In reply to Mr Poo:
> (In reply to andybrown114)
>
> I own the Cyborgs if I was to buy again I would get the G14's.
> The G14's have a better ABS plate and they seem to fit a broader range of boots.
>
> If you were going to go down the MONO route DON"T buy the Petzl Dart
> GET the Grivel G20 instead.
>
> Grivel makes the BEST Crampons money can buy, They CAN"T make climbing axes to save the lives BUT they Know Crampons!

What a load of tosh!!

a.) Both the Dart and G20 are very good crampons if used as intended (i.e for hard mixed and I mean HARD not scottish V!). Granted they are poor / if not dangerous for snow plods but that's not what they are designed for.

b.) Grivel make some of the best axes around. The Matrix Techs / Quantum Techs are EXCELLENT on ice. The EVO is a fabulous alpine axe. The Quantum Monsters are great on mixed / ice. The Force Alloy are some of the best DRY tools available.



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edinburgh_man on 31 Jul 2012
In reply to andybrown114:

Hi Andy,

If it is just Grade V ice you want to use them for then personally I would stick with your G12s. They are considerably lighter than the G14 / Cyborgs.

The majority of people I know that climb a lot of ice prefer dual horizontals unless on very hard / black ice.

If you really want to go to dual vertical points then probably the Petzl Lynx would be worth considering, they seem to be the best at the moment. However be aware I know of 2 instances of front points breaking on them.

If you want my advice it would be to keep your G12s for ice and consider a mono point for mixed (Rambo would be my personal favourite but they are heavy).

I hope that helps.

Cheers

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