UKC

I am looking for a short-rope for Mont Blanc, most likely Gouter route in a party of 2, so reckon 20-30m length of something light. There's a "glacier line" rope (30mx8.1mm) around for about £60

As I want another half rope to match my current half-rope (50m mammut genesis 8.5mm), I'm thinking to: buy a dry 70m half rope, cut it into a 20m and 50m length; 20m is to be used to rope together for anything sketchy on MB, and the other 50m will be my 'other half' - cheap at under £100.

Think these are my options:

1: 70m mammut phoenix (8mm) - £145. Super light, not hardwearing.
2: 70m edelrid kestrel (8.5mm) - £140. Matches dia, but I have no personal experience with their ropes.
3: Get a 50m genesis AND iceline - £170 total. 10m more rope on the shortrope, but more money.

I climb mainly sport and UK trad, but want a versatile rope system to use on Alpine and ice in the future.

Any recommendations or any tricks missed? Is a 30m 8.1mm rope really useful, or could I live with 20m? I appreciate the 8mm phoenix won't last as long, but a superlightweight rope is appealing!

In reply to saz_b:

Just buy the length you need of the reel.

In reply to saz_b: I didn't bother with a rope on Mont Blanc, just let the Olympics inspire you jumping the crevasses

In reply to saz_b: just get the light, dry thin 60m rope you want and take coils for mb. If you need to extract from a slot the extra rope would be useful, so you don't have to haul on the fallen rope. For more technical routes the extra rope will be needed for pitching and abbing, seems a shame to cut a rope for one route. Can prob save weight elsewhere in your kit.

In reply to saz_b: If you've got a 50m rope just use that. If you both take 10 coils each that will leave you about 15m between you i.e. 1/3 of the rope and you'll each have enough to rescue the other.

In reply to saz_b:

You could just use a 50m half rope?

In reply to all: thanks for the replies. Jon - where can I buy lengths off the roll?

Darksys - I'm already inspired by the Olympics - and have cut my pork pie consumption, sustainable change? Doubt it

Well I'm gonna spend about £110 on another 50m half rope anyway, so another £35 for 20m of rope that will serve as a glacier/scrambling/walking rope doesn't seem that bad. Taking a 50m rope with coils is over 1kg of rope more to carry - in an alpine kit, 35 quid is great value for that weight saving!

Assuming there are no knots in the short-rope, what is the benefit of crevasse rescue from an ADDITIONAL line? Ive not been in a situation to have to do a rescue in anger, so excuse my ignorance if I've missed something obvious!

In reply to saz_b:

Most climbing shops sell it off the reel.

In reply to saz_b: mammut phoenix...VERY hardwearing,people think 8mm skinny rope/not hardwearing,wont last etc,i have 2 pairs of these and they are not fluffy at all and have lasted longer than any 9mm rope i have ever owned..!
not sure why,maybe the teflon coating,maybe because they have less surface area and less weight they dont rub/drag as much,all i know is they really are very hardwearing.
also have a mammut serenity supposed to be 8.9mm,looks more like a normal 10mm,has a thinner less robust sheath and its fluffy and worn and has been used far less than the phoenix.

In reply to cliff shasby:
"mammut phoenix...VERY hardwearing,"
+ 1
mine are 5 years old, still going strong and I have used them for nearly all my climbing.

Disadvantages to 8mm are:
Easier cut through by sharp edges
Not as safe when climbing in a 3
Not as safe to climb soley on one rope then the other for pitches with a traverse in the middle etc
Harder to hold falls, it's worth getting a specialist small rope belay device like the buggette, I have two one for me and one for my partner. Although some of the standard modern devices do go down to 8mm they will not hold falls as well as a specialist device.

I've also heard the elasticity on the ropes decreases faster with falls, which makes sense, although I don't fall off much so not a biggy for me.

Cliff, Stevo - thanks for the input.

I'm going for the 70m 8mm phoenix to get the 20m short-rope and the 50m half.

No climbing store I've contacted sells dry halves on the reel apart from needlesports, and at £2/meter it's worse value. The weight saving of a 20m rope over a 50m rope is worth it. And don't see why it's a shame to cut a rope, I'm buying stuff to serve me, I don't serve the things I buy!

Thanks all!

In reply tou ca cliff shasby: u can buy rope in technique exreme near the midi. U just take a normal rope for the blanc 50 or 60 m why buy a rope just for this climb. I used a ski mountaineering 30 x 8 for grand paradiso before bought off role in technique extreme £1 per m and now use it for ski mountaineering and confidence rope.

In reply to saz_b: it's not an additional line, it's so you can set up an anchor, take the weight off you and haul with a 3:1 system. MUCH easier if you have coils. Don't make the same mistake I did and take a short rope for weight savings and then fall in a crevasse and have to be hauled out on the weighted line...

Plus tying coils prevents you from flipping over when you fall in as your tie in point is higher, almost like a chest harness.

In reply to jon:

Isn't the 8mm that's sold off the reel usually static?

In reply to alooker:


Aren't you more likely to flip over if the tie in point is higher? I've always moved the load point to my harness.

In reply to AlanLittle:

You can generally buy most ropes off the reel. I used to buy 120m of Mammut Galaxy and cut it up into 2x25m and a 70m. Just have to shop around a bit.

In reply to galpinos:

No. The other way round. Try it.

In reply to alooker: Interesting. I'm assuming the person walking at the back would have a few coils, keeping the distance 10-15m between the walkers. The follower "follows" the same footsteps as the leader, so if anyone's more likely to fall in, the leader will...so you want a low tie-in. If is higher, it's harder to hold your partner if they fall.

With a couple of coils, you can still escape the system and make a 3:1 rescue system. A 6:1 might require more rope though...thanks for pointing that out.

In reply to stuart58: "why buy a rope for this climb"

By getting a 70m, I will end up with two useful ropes - a 50mm half rope and a 20m confidence rope that can be used on glaciers, scrambling etc.

That's why.

Interesting point about the £1/meter rope at that store, good shout.

In reply to saz_b: it might be impossible to haul on the rope to the leader if it cuts through the snow. In which case you need to drop a bight, your system will be struggling to allow this. This is the point made by others above too.

In reply to saz_b: one pair of my phoenix started life as a 100m duodess that changes pattern half way through,took it home and chopped it in half straight away for 2-50's....
they are pretty amazing ropes,they have changed the colour/pattern of them recently but dont know if they are in the shops in the uk yet.

In reply to saz_b: a rope on a glacier is more than a confidence rope...

In reply to saz_b:

Don't underestimate how difficult it is to haul someone out of a hole using a 3:1 system. It's often sold as the answer to all your woes. It isn't, believe me. Have a rope that allows you to make a 6:1. If, of course, there are lots of other people around just find six volunteers and hey presto, you've got a 6:1. At the same time, don't overestimate the likelyhood of one of you falling into a hole...

In reply to saz_b:

"the likelyhood of one of you falling into a hole... "

On the Gouter route there are very few potential holes, unless you get lost. The potential of losing your way if the weather turns or maybe to inspire confidence on the bosses is the only reason you need a rope at all. I was happy without one and I'm by no means hardcore.

More important.
Be well acclimatised
Wait for good weather

Like the idea of your 20m and 50m system purchase.

In reply to tistimetogo:

I did say 'don't OVERestimate... '

In reply to jon:

Yes and I was agreeing. You might say the Jon's backed up. aha.

In reply to saz_b:

Are you so unfit that an extra 20m of rope might stop you getting up MB?

In reply to saz_b: Technique Extreme in Chamonix sells 20, 30 and 40m tendon 7.9mm half rope for reasonable prices.

Robert