/ Cheap Rope?

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Patrik333 on 18 Aug 2012
Hey,

-I'm a bit short on money so I can't afford 120 climbing ropes.

-I have a harness and rock shoes already (though I'm not sure if they still fit!)

-I've been bored a lot and I want to go tree climbing / make rope swings / go top-rope climbing / other easy stuff that needs a rope.

-I want to find a rope that is strong enough to hold my weight (~120kg atm, but I'm on a diet!) but not necessarily be strong enough to take falls (as I won't plan to take any big falls on it if I'm top roping etc.)

Anyone got ideas? Did anyone used to be a scout, and remember using that blue rope? If I got some of that and doubled it up for extra precaution, would that be safe?

Cheers.



Patrik333 on 18 Aug 2012
+ Just found this site: http://www.ropesdirect.co.uk/6mm-blue-poly-rope/prod_4.html

10 quid with a breaking strain of 550kg - obviously still probably not safe to take falls on if it's not dynamic, but easily strong enough to hold my weight even on a swing...
Patrik333 on 18 Aug 2012
+ Sorry for triple-post - I'm not sure how to edit...

Anyway after further research, I checked B+Q because the other site had a steep delivery charge... and B+Q had a similar product for 10 for only 30m and with a breaking strain of 130 kg...

...so 190m less, and about 400kg less breaking strain. Either B+Q is really overpriced or the other site has some very dubious figures..
highclimber - on 18 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333: I hope this is a troll. if not, god'll save you! and i'm not religous!
Patrik333 on 18 Aug 2012
In reply to highclimber: Huh?? I'm being sensible here...

I've seen blue rope used as rope swings before, and they seem pretty sturdy.

I know that rope that isn't climbing rope isn't good to take a fall on, or to use in any extreme place, but why can't I use it for more gentle stuff?
Neil Williams - on 18 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

You can get a 30m dynamic rope for 30 to 40 quid. Don't get yourself killed by skimping.

The blue "BT rope" is pretty strong, but it is totally static and is no more suited to taking even top rope falls on than a Dyneema sling is. 6mm blue polyprop won't break under the strain of a top rope fall - but *you* probably will.

Neil
Neil Williams - on 18 Aug 2012
In reply to Neil Williams:

Sorry, about 50. Been a while since I needed a new one! My point stands though.

Neil
highclimber - on 18 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333: Ok, Carry on.
teh_mark - on 18 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

I saw somewhere advertising a 50m single for 50 very recently...but I have no idea where! Completely forgot.

Climbing on polyprop is ok, if you have no dependants and no family or friends who will miss you when you kill yourself. If you can't afford the correct equipment to climb, then don't climb. It's dangerous enough as it is without adding in additional risk just for kicks and giggles.
ashley1_scott - on 18 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

If you are going to make a rope swing then I would go for something around about the 10mm blue nylon.
However: If you plan on doing ANY sort of climbing, be it tree climbing or rock climbing. DO NOT use this type of rope.

Climbing ropes should be dynamic not static ropes, if you are on a tight budget then try this http://www.bananafingers.co.uk/beal-yuji-10mm-p-1029.html

I have just re-read your opening message, how are you going to get the rope to the top to do top-roping.
EeeByGum - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333: Just get hold of any old rope. My first climbing expeditions up the side of our garage were using a rope used to tie my canoe to the roof rack, rope swings were made using a tow rope and my first abseil was done on the main sheet of my sailing dinghy down the stairs.
Johnny_Grunwald on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:
> (In reply to highclimber) Huh?? I'm being sensible here...
>
> I've seen blue rope used as rope swings before, and they seem pretty sturdy.
>
> I know that rope that isn't climbing rope isn't good to take a fall on, or to use in any extreme place, but why can't I use it for more gentle stuff?

You need the red rope not the blue one! The orange one is ok at a pinch but avoid the yellow stuff at all costs.
andic - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

Decathlon sell dynamic rope by the metre (and semi-static too) go there and buy just what you can afford.
Neil Williams - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to ashley1_scott:

The Yuji is a good indoor rope, handles quite well.

Neil
NorthernGrit - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

Suspect troll but still

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=515880

50m actual safe rope for climbing for 50. If you can't afford that, go halves with a mate or do something else until you can.
Annoying Twit - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to NorthernGrit:
> (In reply to Patrik333)
>
> Suspect troll but still
>
> http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=515880
>
> 50m actual safe rope for climbing for 50. If you can't afford that, go halves with a mate or do something else until you can.

While up to now I've probably been the member of this forum with the least reason to be here as I only read books about famous mountaineering adventure and ask questions, never climb, things have changed slightly. I took Annoying Twit Jr. to a local climbing wall and unexpectedly he insisted on joining and is very keen. I've just spent an hour this evening belaying him.

Over time I think I will need equipment for him. Returning to the topic of this thread - the rope above is 50 for 50metres, but is rated for only six falls. The 50m rope from Decathlon is 90 or so, but is rated for 16 falls. Unless there's something I'm missing, or the ratings are inaccurate, surely the Decathlon rope is overall better value, is it not?
ledifer on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Annoying Twit:
That's 6 vs 16 factor two falls.
If you manage to take a few factor 2s in your first couple years climbing, you'll probably give up or get yourself killed anyway.

The cheaper tendon rope will do fine and see you through loads of smaller falls
Oceanrower - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to ledifer: Noboy in the history of climbing, ever, has taken even one factor two fall at an indoor wall. Ever. Never mind six or sixteen. Not even once.

Very few have taken one outdoors either....
Annoying Twit - on 21 Aug 2012
Thanks both. I don't know things such as what a factor two fall is. Reading of the heroism of a Pete Schoening usually doesn't fill in the technical detail. Now I need to learn the actual nuts and bolts of climbing.
Oceanrower - on 21 Aug 2012
In reply to Annoying Twit: This might help

http://www.camp4.com/rock/index.php?newsid=231

The wikipedia entry will only serve to confuse more!
ads.ukclimbing.com
Annoying Twit - on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to Oceanrower:

Thanks. The Camp4 link explains the falls and fall factor. And I can see how for a factor 2 fall in an inside wall you would basically have to search high and low for a 100m high wall, and then more or less deliberately go out to experience such a fall before it happens.

Before last night's class we were watching people on the main wall (we were being instructed on a lower wall), and those lead climbing were clipping themselves in every few metres or so. So that falls would be quite short if they happened. The ropes are provided however, so rope is probably not the first thing we need to buy, with proper climbing shoes, helmets, and harnesses being further forward in the queue of things to buy. We are being supplied with equipment at present, but will need a few more things for when we start going to the wall as normal members.
ashley1_scott - on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to Annoying Twit:
My climbing rope is only rated at 8 falls, however I have taken maybe 100+ falls indoors and still fill safe taking another 100+, Most have been FF.5 or less. I have never got anywhere near taking a fall at factor 1.8 (which I believe is what they count as a fall when testing using a 80kg weight, heavier than that see link at bottom of message). Indoors if you get higher than Fall Factor 1, you are either on a multi-pitch route (there must be somewhere in the world that does them) or you have missed a clip low down and fallen thru the floor.

I think personally if I ever took two falls of Fall Factor 1.8, after changing my underwear I would change my rope anyway.

http://www.safeclimbing.org/education/Heavy_Climbers_Beware.pdf
jkarran - on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to Annoying Twit:

> Over time I think I will need equipment for him. Returning to the topic of this thread - the rope above is 50 for 50metres, but is rated for only six falls. The 50m rope from Decathlon is 90 or so, but is rated for 16 falls. Unless there's something I'm missing, or the ratings are inaccurate, surely the Decathlon rope is overall better value, is it not?

The fall ratings are not as informative as they might seem. The falls used during testing are exceptionally severe, the result is generally fatter ropes take more falls. However, those are *nasty* falls, not the sort of abuse you will be subjecting your rope to. I have no idea how many mine is rated to take, maybe 8, maybe 10. So far it has actually caught 100+ and is looking in pretty reasonable shape for it.

How hard wearing (tightly woven) the sheath is and how you (ab)use the rope will have the biggest bearing on the life you get from it. Unfortunately tough ropes don't handle as well as nice soft ones.

jk
Fraser on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

I've heard some folk have used this for TR-ing but wouldn't like to try it myself:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Herlitz-200m-Ball-of-String/dp/B004985YHI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345621...



jkarran - on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

Must be a troll?

If you want to go climbing then save up and get a short cheap 10mm climbing rope.

Yes, I remember skinny blue rope swings as a young lad. Great fun but I also remember plenty of them snapping and a fair few cuts and bruises.

jk
Annoying Twit - on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to jkarran:
> If you want to go climbing then save up and get a short cheap 10mm climbing rope.

How short is "short"? 50m appears to be the standard length. Do some beginners require more or less rope than that? And if so, how do they know how long a rope to get?
Neil Williams - on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to Annoying Twit:

30m is available for indoor walls. But it depends on the height of what you want to climb!

Neil
jkarran - on 22 Aug 2012
In reply to Annoying Twit:

Depends how you use it. I recently used my 30m rope to pitch a big-ish route in the lakes 50m would have been faster but who cares, 30 works.

If he's willing to make do with a bit of old washing line he can make do with 30m of climbing rope.

jk
Patrik333 on 23 Aug 2012
I repeat: I'm not a troll. Yeah, it might seem a little stupid climbing with blue rope, but if I'm always on a taut top rope, I'm not going to fall very dynamically.

Given also that I'm considering just climbing trees free solo, as well.
Also, I'm thinking of it more as the 'swing' application, and if I had any doubts as to whether it might break or not, I'd double it up.

ashley1_scott: "I have just re-read your opening message, how are you going to get the rope to the top to do top-roping."

For cliffs - find any cliff with an easy top-access and set up an anchor there. The only cliff nearby me is a really easy, short one anyway.

For trees - tie a weight around the rope and hurl it into a "V" between two strong branches. Not sure about how I'd stop it rubbing against the bark...
Or maybe just lead climb but with all loops/slings instead of nuts and stuff.

Feebygum: "Just get hold of any old rope. My first climbing expeditions up the side of our garage were using a rope used to tie my canoe to the roof rack, rope swings were made using a tow rope and my first abseil was done on the main sheet of my sailing dinghy down the stairs."

Fraser: "I've heard some folk have used [string] for TR-ing but wouldn't like to try it myself"

I'm not sure if one or both of you are just taking the piss out of me right now. I sure wouldn't want to put my weight on string. The tow rope idea sounds plausible though. Unfortunately I don't have /any/ kind of rope lying around.
mikekeswick - on 23 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333: It's pretty simple - buy a climbing rope.
bpmclimb - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

Top roping usually means bottom roping; i.e. ropes go up from climber, through carabiners hanging just over cliff-top, and back down to belayer. If using 30m of rope with this set up you'll be limited to pitches of less than 15m (or always have to position the belayer at the top). You'll have much more scope with 50m.

It goes without saying (or should do) that you need proper dynamic climbing rope for climbing activities, including top roping. You can't guarantee that the loading will always be static; in practice it often isn't.

By the way, you can't run rope directly around trees when bottom roping - there's an inconvenient amount of friction, and it's very bad for the trees. You need some carabiners and long slings or, better, a length of rigging rope.

You're going to have to spend some money!
deanstonmassif on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to Patrik333:

A rope you need? For climbing? Probably best buy a CLIMBING ROPE.

If it's just to hold up your old pair of gardening trousers, then just use some of the blue stuff (or orange if your dad's a farmer).

DO NOT CONFUSE THE TWO! Please ... jus gonnae no

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