/ Ukraine Death Cams
Anyone had any experience of this gear ? It looks like something out of a Christmas cracker ! :)
When I bought my kit I looked at all the cheap stuff available for around six seconds and thought ' well it MIGHT be fine'
That was enough to make me not buy it.
Gear4rocks cams have been discussed a fair bit on UKC, but this is the first i've heared about them failing.
If you look at the ebay listings for there cams they assert that they do have CE certification, but personally i wouldnt climb with them unless they were UIAA aproved.
I just googled them and found this:
<< We are pleased to announce that the gear4rocks links cams have passed CE certification >>
Does anyone know what CE certification actually guarantees?
Some quality systems just ensure that what is produced is of consistent quality, ie. it may be rubbish but it will be consistently rubbish.
quoting SATRA website:
CE marking of most types of PPE can only be carried out by a Notified Body such as SATRA. The process involves checking that the product meets the appropriate safety and performance standards and that technical files and user information are correct. Where appropriate, we also ensure that procedures are in place for on-going checks of performance and quality.
I don't see why anyone in the UK would buy them. Shop around and you can get deals from UK shops at similar prices without the hassle of having to import.
Is (recreational) climbing gear treated as PPE? I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect not.
my understanding was that it was as have seen reference to PPE multiple times when reading on the subject of safety marks, although i could be wrong.
for example of rockrun.com:
Safety Ratings & Standards
There are well enforced European safety standards for climbing equipment manufacture and distribution – PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) standards have been a legal requirement in Europe since the 1980’s. Equipment that satisfies these ratings (all the equipment on sale on our website) will be marked with a “CE” (Conformite Europeene) stamp. This shows that the equipment conforms to all the relevant European manufacturing and safety standard legislation.
"Also, one of the cams arrived with two of the lobes incorrectly positioned on the axle. The little stem thingy that prevents the lobes closing too far was the wrong way round. I notified gear4rocks about the problem and they said that they had inspected the cam twice before sending it to me, however unfortunately the cam was damaged in the post. "
The QC had been drinking vodka more like. These people are total clowns. Also the material specification is non-existent, it reads;
"All gear is manufactured from the highest quality materials and is assembled by qualified engineers under the supervision of experienced quality controllers"
I assume by this point they've let the pissed QC go?! Are they using A6082 alloy for the lobes like other manufactures or not ? Who knows maybe they just go round collecting scrap?
And the CE mark assurance is just a joke! ;
"All equipment has been tested by "STANDART" the Ukrainian National Scientific-Certification Center in Kiev, the capital of Ukraine. Testing procedures are based on CE and UIAA standards. For Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) to be legally sold in Ukraine it must be tested by "STANDART." Upon your request we will scan and email you the image of the original testing certificate (Russian language) "
I think the key word here is BASED on CE and UIAA standards, not actually tested to the exact standards. This equipment is a weak, cheap and nasty imitation of the real thing
As mentioned above when they started selling in the ukraine they were tested by STANDART. However since they have been accredited CE status, however rather than changing the origional writing they tend to tag it onto the end as a seperate bullet point.
I considered buying these cams for a long time... before deciding it wasnt worth the risk.
I note that the web-page for gear4rocks only says that their links cams have CE accreditation...
Can we assume that means that their other PPE doesn't have it?
> Can we assume that means that their other PPE doesn't have it?
Any Photos yet??
> Is (recreational) climbing gear treated as PPE? I'm not entirely sure, but I suspect not.
You suspect wrong ;0)
"Almost all climbing hardware comes under the European Personal Protective Equipment Directive (PPE). This applies to equipment carried on the person which protects against falls from a height. To be allowed to sell an item of PPE in Europe a manufacturer must go to an independent ‘Approved Body’ and have their equipment tested against the appropriate standard and their quality control verified. Once approval is given the equipment can carry the CE mark and go on sale. "
Also, the CE certification is a joke compared to the UIAA approval tests, 3-sigma testing and ISO9001 standards. I seem to remember reading that to get a CE mark only three cams have to be strength tested!
I say buy British ! :)
> Also, the CE certification is a joke compared to the UIAA approval tests, 3-sigma testing and ISO9001 standards. I seem to remember reading that to get a CE mark only three cams have to be strength tested!
You are wildly mis-informed. To carry the UIAA Safety Label cams must first pass EN 12276, exactly the same as to be granted CE. The only additional requirement for the UIAA is that 50% of the stitching is in a contrasting colour to the tape (if tape is used). That is the only difference.
3 Sigma and ISO9001 are not a requirement for either CE or UIAA and certainly are not used by a number of companies as there are better or more suitable systems of quality control and quality management available.
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