/ Opinions on lightweight krabs

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
d80f0u on 25 Aug 2012
Apart from the obvious financial implications, are there any particular downsides to buying the lightest krabs available? I'm thinking particularly for 'classic' multipitch mountain trad routes and an annual jaunt to the alps. Are the saved few grams worth it?

Ta,

Ben
Al Randall on 25 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u: Some people don't get on with them because they find their small size awkward to handle. This could be an even worse problem when wearing gloves.

Al
Ronan O Keeffe on 25 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u:

WC Heliums. Full size and handle well with gloves or without. Might not be the lightest these days but they're not far off it.
remus - on 25 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u: The durability suffers compared to something more beefy, though this doesn't sound like it's going to be a problem for you. As has been mentioned some don't like the handling.

Id have a play with them in the shop, if they feel alright and you've got some cash floating about I can't see any reason not to invest. They're not going to make you float up the walk ins but they're a good starting point for a lightweight approach.
JJL - on 25 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u:

I threw money at the issue of not being as fit as I used to be.

The biggest weight gain/ was a new helmet, next was my rucksack. When I looked at Krabs, there was very little in it.

Modern ice tools are *much* lighter than they used to be, and ropes vary quite a bit too.
cliff shasby - on 25 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u It depends how you get on with them,i don't have a problem with them (small hands)and i carry a lot of gear so made a big difference in weight in my pack,also i think the shorter gates are stronger feeling/more positive and less likely to stick maybe.

lighweight screwgates help too,i use wc neon(small)and petzl attache 3d(large),the petzl 3d's i think are superb.

Another thing i noticed which suprised me when carrying a full rack is how much less space all those small crabs take up,i used to struggle with a 45l pack but probrably carry more gear now and get away with a 26l for rock and ice.
ERU - on 25 Aug 2012
> WC Heliums. Full size and handle well with gloves or without. Might not be the lightest these days but they're not far off it.

I use these, but will hide them if it means falling off often, or at all. The metal deforms after only one fall on sharp edged bolts. I was pretty annoyed, and shocked, the first time I noticed - but in the end it's the trade off for lightweight gear.
Si dH - on 26 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u:
Been using phantoms full time on trad for 3 years now. Normal hand size, not seen any durabikity issues (altho I avoid using them on bolts); wouodnt consider using anything else now. Si
wilkie14c - on 26 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u:
Just to repeat what others have said. I use Heliums and they are full size and handle well but won't take heavy use on bolts. I also have a few CAMP Nanos and although small these are very robust. Greater and more useful weight savings can be made in other and cheaper areas IMO, harness, ropes and sack etc
Si dH - on 26 Aug 2012
In reply to Si dH:
> (In reply to d80f0u)
> Been using phantoms full time on trad for 3 years now. Normal hand size, not seen any durabikity issues (altho I avoid using them on bolts); wouodnt consider using anything else now. Si

As I'm bored and have re-read the same thread, in light of others posts I'm going to clarify this. This is on trad routes where weight on route is key, ie, might make a significant difference to whether I fall off or not, and when the number of draws I climb with is limited by weight considerations. ie, routes that are sustained, vertical-ish (or more) and of reasonable length. On these routes, phantoms are invaluable. However for the sort of thigns yo uare talking abotu doing, and from your profile, a lightweight rucksack (if you climb with it) and helmet would make much more difference (unless you still climb with really old solid-metal-everything gear as I see some people doing - get rid of it!)
In reply to d80f0u: Some experiences of smaller lightweight krabs: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=1155
d80f0u on 26 Aug 2012
Thanks for all your thoughts so far folks, I appreciate the info. I'm not intending splashing loads of cash all at once, but I think I will gradually start to replace my older (some of it very solid-metal-everything!) gear with lightweight stuff, starting with helmet and sack and then some heavier bits of my rack, as and when I can afford it.
jon on 26 Aug 2012
In reply to TobyA:

Do you, or does anyone know, if Black D do other krabs in the same range of colours as their little Neutrino(?) Thinking of racking cams, but I've got big hands and have really fumbled with these toys in the past.
In reply to jon: Don't know - check the website I guess. I do know that if you want them for cams, DMM dragons are the same colour system and you can get matching colour pack krabs from them. I have the old Spectres which I think are great, light full size krabs. I guess they must do the Spectre IIs in colours as well. They're good too, although for some reason I actually find the first version easier to clip. DMM though will tell you the second version is better design!
cyberpunk - on 27 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u: check out the Edelrid Mission Krabs. They are larger than DMM Phantoms and lighter than DMM PHantoms.

I have been using them for a couple of years and love them.

I also have the locking version.
GrahamD - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u:

Hard to say whether they are 'worth it' or not, but I've gradually been replacing older wiregates with newer ones as and when I see them on offer and I really like them. The difference in weight is probably more a physcological than physical difference but then so much of climbing is in the head...
professionalwreckhead - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to TobyA:
> I do know that if you want them for cams, DMM dragons are the same colour system and you can get matching colour pack krabs from them. I have the old Spectres which I think are great, light full size krabs. I guess they must do the Spectre IIs in colours as well.

DMM do make the Spectre 2's in the same colour system, which is really handy for matching to cams and torque nuts. You can pick up a pack of 5 for 30.

I really like the Spectre 2's. They seem to be a good all round biner for trad, light enough for rock, but big enough that I can still use them with gloves on for winter (which was a bit of a struggle with the phantoms).

I'm a rookie at leading and the slightly larger size of the Spectre is really welcome when I'm faffing about trying to clip in an awkward position.



In reply to professionalwreckhead:
> and the slightly larger size of the Spectre is really welcome when I'm faffing about trying to clip in an awkward position.

Yep, completely agree. My tip is get an equal number of say phantom QDs and spectre (or similar) QDs, then swap the krabs round so that all the gear end krabs are phantoms, and then you have the bigger ones at the other end. Even ice climbing in bulky gloves I find it no problem to clip a smaller krab into the hanger on ice screw for example, but its definitely easier getting a rope into a bigger krab.

victim of mathematics - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u:

I've just replaced a load of krabs on my rack in an effort to make it a little bit lighter (to compensate for the fact that I insist on taking 20 quickdraws and 40 nuts on every route with me just in case...).

I've replaced all the gear-end krabs with Phantoms or Nanos (I had a few of these knocking around) and the rope-end with lightish full size krabs (like the Alpha Trads). This gives a nice balance of reduced weight without the irritation of trying to fiddle ropes into small gates.

It works for me, anyway.
Coel Hellier - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:

My standard draw has a Camp Nano on the gear end and a WC Helium on the rope end. I think this is about as good as you can get ;-)

Phantoms are ace also, and I don't find it hard to clip the rope into them. I use Phantoms an all my cams, since they're available in lots of colours to colour-match the cams (most of the alternatives, such as Edelrid Missions, are not).
ads.ukclimbing.com
CurlyStevo - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
I don't have a problem clipping the rope in to phantoms (sans gloves) - I recently switched to racking cams individually (for summer only) and I now use these singly on each.
victim of mathematics - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to CurlyStevo:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> I don't have a problem clipping the rope in to phantoms (sans gloves) -

Neither do I - most of the time - but when I'm totally boxed and have just placed that crucial runner, the last thing I want is to drop the clip. So I prefer to err on the side of caution.
JamieSparkes - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to d80f0u: I got a load of these for making up 60cm slingdraws

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Rock-Climbing-Equipment/Karabiners/Standard-Karabiners/Moses-K...

super cheap and super light!
In reply to victim of mathematics:

> Neither do I - most of the time - but when I'm totally boxed and have just placed that crucial runner, the last thing I want is to drop the clip.

Same here - I tend to notice it when sport climbing more often but not solely.
victim of mathematics - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to JamieSparkes:

I've got a few of those, they seem fine (especially at that price).

Slingdraws are the one place I have only full-size krabs, as trying to triple them over with small krabs is a pain. Also I have revolvers on a couple of my slingdraws, and then it's nigh-on impossible unless you have a full-size krab on t'other end.
Coel Hellier - on 28 Aug 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:

> Slingdraws are the one place I have only full-size krabs, as trying to triple them over with small krabs is a pain.

The combination of 8-mm slings and Phantoms seems to work well for me (I agree that you'd want something bigger for a 10-mm sling).

This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.