UKC

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/is-the-dragons-back-th...

In reply to higherclimbingwales: Poor article I thought.. but anything which says toughest this.. toughest that annoys me..

Lots of exaggerations in it..

Plenty of longer races around, but to be honest there's no such thing when you really think about it.

In reply to IainRUK: Good article I thought

Ps . . RA's book is awesome by the way.

In reply to IainRUK: I suppose toughness is relative and if you are 99.9% of the Independent's readership, it would be the toughest because it's described as such.
You can't really deny that it's a hard challenge and it's good that fell running is getting into a national paper.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: Looking forward to it, going to be a lot of media coverage (film crew, photojournalists), so be interesting to see how they report it. We are marshalling for the full week, fingers crossed for the weather - for us that is, never mind the competitors, they're tough!!

In reply to IainRUK:

Why do your posts always come across as so elitist?

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Why is it good that fell running is getting into a national paper?

In reply to NMN: Because it's a paper I read and it's nice to see something there that I have an interest in. makes the £1.20 I pay for it seem a little bit less.

In reply to liz j: Obviously because I am... or its that you are looking to whine on...

Its hardly elitist.. read the article.. look at the course and the competitors list..

In reply to higherclimbingwales: Totally. I considered it as its a classic but TBH it would shaft me right now as I'd want to fully race it.

I'd love to watch as I don't think many realise what the mornings of day 2 day 3 etc will be like.. but tbh once you get going the legs free up pretty quick.

I'm just a grumpy old man.. its all getting a bit extreme at the moment.. extreme this.. worlds toughest race.. hardest race in the world.. are you mad enough and all that bollocks..

In reply to IainRUK:

I agree, I just thought it was a refreshing change to read instead of war, politics and the olympics!

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

Good luck Shane, hope this is a big success.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:

I ran with Helene for a bit at this years Hebden, got to admit I didn't know who she was until I was properly introduced later, nice lady.

Got to agree with Iain, why does everything have to be described as the hardest and most extreme. I am definately becoming a fan of the understated in my old age.

In reply to IainRUK: I think its an ego thing, not an elitist attitude.

In reply to Southern Man: I think it'll be a big success, but it may be too much for many.. Many in running are against any commercial events like this, but as long as people think they get value for money I'm not sure of the issue. Certainly I'd rather pay £500 for an organised event, than pay £200, take the week of work for a poorly organised shambles.

People like package challenge holidays, but this is beyond the limit of many. Also whether it could be an annual event, its a lot of money to do every year and the pool of runners, in the UK especially, who could do this isn't huge..

It'd be interesting to know how he handled access, if he got access from every farm/land owner the route crosses as its organised CRoW doesn't enable access does it?

I've a few friends doing it and it'll be interesting to see who wins.

In reply to higherclimbingwales: "nearly 100 of the world's toughest athletes".. I know a fair few who have entered.. fit guys for sure.. world's toughest.. I think they'd cringe reading that..

"on terrain so rough that much of it was barely suitable for scrambling, let alone running –".. not sure where that is..

"Twenty years ago, she was little known even among fell-runners. " This is just plain wrong. She'd ran internationally, broken records for many including the paddy buckley..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helene_Diamantides#Fell_Running_Achievements

So in general a poorly researched article at best, but I suspect RA knew HD was known so its just plain inaccurate. Also containing a lot of exaggerations and unneccessary hyperbole.. call it ego.. call it elitism.. I just expect articles on the sport I do to be accurate.

In reply to IainRUK:



Does seem a bit odd. IIRC there's a whole chapter on her in Feet in the Clouds!

Perceived idiom innit. There's a degree of writing for you audience I think. Sounds horrendous. Wonder what the vetting was like and what the drop-out rate will be? My mate mentioned that the waiting list had got on to the start list, such were the pre-match drop-outs.

In reply to steveri: Aye, of course, I just don't see the point in the inaccuracies.

I'd expect it was vetted to a point, Shane's very experienced, but its a pretty safe route really, its just physically a huge ask but the dangers are pretty small compared to many race routes.

All he can do is see who has good experience, but its a pretty unique challenge, I can't think of too many ultra distance UK runs over consecutive days.

Its something I'd consider, but to be honest the Trans-Alp or Trans-Rocky would be preferable if I was going to spend a lot.

In reply to IainRUK:

The Dragon's Back is going to be one hell of a multi-stage run, but in terms of worlds toughest.. I think I would rather climb on average 10K feet of Welsh hill per day than sand dunes.

For a news paper article I am surprised it doesn't big the event up even more, though I dont think many readers would be able to connect with the article, perhaps a film would be better... but I am with you on it being surprisingly badly written; but maybe Richard's experience with the "notorious" Bob Graham has tinted his view on this. Whilst the "Bob" is a hard day out on the fells (and is completely awesome) - it just isn't that big a deal (and yes I have done it twice - once in very bad conditions in 25hours and last year in under 20).

But I do think Ian you underestimate the effort involved in doing a number of big days back to back... I think your comment about legs loosening off after you get going on days 3, 4 etc mildly ridiculous The main reason I didn't think of doing the Dragon's Back is that I couldn't have recovered enough day to day to do it without consuming dangerous levels of ibuprofen!

Anyhow the event hasn't even happened, I am suprised that RA (unless I have missed something) hasn't written up Nicky Spinks's record for the BG - with all the health challenges Nicky has had this year (winning the Fellsman 6 weeks after an operation)- IS a remarkable story - which I think a lot of people could engage with more easily.

I would love Helene to win the event again (sorry Nicky) - now that would be an incredible story. Keen for inspirational NEWS! I noted on the net that a 61 year old lady had run her first hundred miler in under 23 hours - WOW!

Cheers,

In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Here's an acount of our version of the Dragons Back in 2007 (if you want to read it). http://www.wfra.me.uk/index.htm
Just 5 mates and a backup van, bearing in mind I was 55 years old, never done even 2 consecutive mountain days and been off running for previous 6 weeks injured - I would say it is acheivable to most of the entrants, if you aren't trying to race!!
Obviously Shane is trying to publicise it, there are sponsors to accomodate and bills to pay. Going to be a good week.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Sorry, direct link doesn't work, but if you go into "Newsletters" it's August 2007.

In reply to simon cox: I've done a few back to back days.. 3 x 6-8hrs per day in the GL3D when it was 100 miles over 3 days, and the legs loosened..

Same with the 3pYR last year, every run was stiff, push through and after 20 minutes you were ok..

To be honest I find that most days, I take a rest day once a month and often run twice a day now, just to loosen my legs up for the later effort..

In reply to simon cox: Nicky doesn't seem big on publicity though. But her story is pretty incredible especially when you add the other stuff she's dealt with.

TBH I think the DB is so big that it's incomprehendable to the 'normal person'.. so I don't see how it can be bigged up, as its so much beyond what people could conceive possible.

I think its great it is happening, I kept thinking of having a go, I just think the article was poor for the reasons I listed. Shane's done well, its a lot of money but the organisation must be huge and as I said I don't mind paying for good organisation. I did Boston Marathon which was £100 for less than 3 hrs, but I finished thinking 'wow that was great'.. same the UTMB, so £400-500 for 4-5 days isn't so different.

I suppose I've spent too long doing US trail ultra's with all the high fiving.. extreme.. 'we're mad we are' bullshit.. that all this 'toughest'.. 'most extreme'.. hyperbole just goes through me.. whatever happened to good old British understating..

In reply to higherclimbingwales: If you marshal on the DB, you have a free entry the next year!
Unfortunately I don't think my poor old body would hold up now (to the training), and my Missus doesn't run - so that's 2 entries that won't be taken up next year, no I don't beleive I can "pass them on"!!

In reply to Moley: That's a great way of doing it. Its something which seems to be overlooked at the moment, we have professional race organisers, yet depending on unpaid, and sometimes unrewarded marshalls.

After a skyrace in France I went to a meal and it tuns out this meal wasn't for the runners, it was for the race marshalls, I paid 16 euros, but they got free i think, free food, wine, band etc.. a nice touch.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:
Having retired last year, we are in a position to put something back into the sport, have always done some marshalling and organised a few distance events but have the time to do a bit more now.

In reply to higherclimbingwales:
I read the article with great interest but have to agree with others that it’s a bit heavy on the hyperbole, and misleading in several areas, some of which have been discussed above. But it’s a piece of journalism aimed at the widest possible audience and not at a small band of fell running devotees – yes, it’s disappointing that certain inaccuracies are there, but hey, who wants the truth getting in the way of a good story?
Contrary to the impression given in the article, and repeated in several posts above, this event is not for elite athletes only, and is eminently doable by experienced and well prepared runners of less elevated status. I know because I was lucky enough to take part in the 1992 race – it was a brilliant adventure and an unforgettable five days. The race was certainly a tough challenge, but with the right mental attitude and adequate preparation, not beyond the reach of merely average club runners, as I was at the time. Sure enough you had to dig deep when the going got tough, as it did for everyone at some stage, but I never doubted that I would finish.
It’s great that the event is to be staged again and I’m sure it will be a great success. The ‘never again’ statement made in the article is incorrect. It was Ian Waddell’s intention that the race would be a biannual event, and steps were taken to repeat it in 1994. My entry was accepted, but with only about two weeks to go the whole thing was unexpectedly cancelled – the reason given was that the army were unable to commit to their major supporting role owing to the likelihood of deployment elsewhere – the Rwandan civil war was at this time.
The weather was kind to us in 1992. There was an hour or two of steady rain on the morning of day 4 in the Elan valley, but apart from that the week was pretty dry. Visibility was good apart from some low cloud on the morning of day 1, causing some teams to lose time by navigation errors crossing the Carneddau mountains.
The planning and organisation by Ian Waddell was faultless and from a competitor’s viewpoint everything seemed to go like clockwork. The Parachute Regiment provided outstanding support and backup. They set up an overnight camp at the end of each day, with camp beds in big military tents for the runners. One of the highlights of the race was the superb catering turned out by the mobile field kitchen. At the end of each day most runners were ravenously hungry and ingested huge amounts of food – it was so good you just kept going back for more.
A couple of memories stick in the mind. Five hundred quid is a lot of dosh for an entry – in 1992 it was ten pounds! Even at 1992 prices that was a steal. I remember saying to a friend “Where else could you get a five day adventure trip with all food and accommodation thrown in, for a tenner?”
On the evening before the start all the competitors gathered at a hotel near Conwy for a pre-race briefing. Ian Waddell gave a short welcoming speech then handed over to a Parachute Regiment corporal who briefed us on the procedure at check points etc. He was a real military martinet type and the way he barked out his instructions made it clear he didn’t think much of this bunch of civilians. Over the course of the week it was amusing to see his attitude slowly soften as he realised that perhaps this bunch of civilians were no slouches after all – and some of them could show the Para teams in the race a clean pair of heels.

In reply to IainRUK:

Dude, respect to you... anyone who after a 100 miles in three days would fancy a couple more 45 milers back to back (with plenty of ascent) to loosen their legs off is a legend!

Slightly seriously, after doing the Ultra Tour of the Peak District on Sunday I think I should be sorted for the UTMB next year (with 7 qualifying points in the bag) - I am pre-entered having failed to get in this year...

So all I need to do is get hard... I think RA said in Feet in the Mouth, "getting fit is easy, its being hard thats hard.."

Cheers,