UKC

I am glad the Cassin route has brought out so much interest but still feel the hardest pitch is french 5/5+ and there are possible two pitches at that grade. One comment stated it was an alpine route, but surely you have to put your crampons on or move over ice for it to be an alpine route? I could see a speck of snow to the right of the route towards the top. So my final judgement of the route would be french 5 D multipitch rock route or english vs/hvs 4c/5a multi pitch rock route in dry conditions.

In reply to rlade: Dude, think you are underplaying what is a big route in a semi remote location. I recall the crux corner being ~6a (maybe 5+, either way HVS/E1), but that pitch aside, there are another ~21 pitches. Yes its not very sustained, but I think it is far too big an undertaking and in a few places, technically hard, for alpine 'D'. Coupled with the likelihood of encountering snow or a thunderstorm on route or descent...

Maybe you were just going well? Are there routes at alpine 'D' you felt were more difficult?

Andy

In reply to rlade:

Maybe email the Alpine club and the Swiss alpine club to suggest the grade change for future guidebooks.

It could have 2 grades TD when there is a sizable snow patch on the initial traverse and D for a couple of days in a dry year.

In reply to rlade: by any chance were you the guy seconding his mate up the whole route? and really sorry if you arent because this could make you sound foolish- but were you the guy whose partner said to follow the tick marks on the third pitch (5c+)

im the guy who went off route (whoops) at the start and you guys may have climbed through us at the start (you did the easy start, if you are the person im thinking of) by the way, the rubuffet corner start although harder is worth doing.

as i said, i truly apologise if you werent the party im thinking of (your partner had spent the season in chamonix i seem to recall) but perhaps not following tick marks could make things harder

tom

x

In reply to rlade: You're being deliberately dense, and it's tiresome. You might just as well say the Meije South Face Pierre Alain route is only VS/HVS, never mind its tricky route finding or vulnerability to storms (which I have twice experienced - no picnic). Or that the Walker is only HVS, Etc etc.

It's not the point. Mind you, if Divine Providence was at Tremadog, I doubt whether it would get more than E5.

In reply to davidoldfart:

Particularly because anybody starting twice the same thread about the same mountain and twice mispelling its name (it's PIZ Badile) it's either dense or is the dullest troll ever.

If DP was in Tremadog, the descent options would be interesting to contemplate!

Tom (from Brighton), I think you need to make your greenhouse bullet proof before you start slinging stones around on here.

I was the the person that was 'guided' up the Cassin by my mate who is a mountain Guide. I've climbed E5/E6 in my day but I've got a family now and I like to climb with speed and safety on my side. That's the way I prefer it these days on big routes like this. That's my choice and not for you to question this.

We did overtake you - on the harder (and original) start which is 5c (English 5a) with a fierce pull up a steep wall. You did ask us if we were going to be quick - we said yes - but you were ready to go and jumped on the easier start anyway.

I do remember a commotion behind me (its really wet / watch me / and you almost fell off). I know this because it was in my interest that you did not need rescuing otherwise my guide would be obliged to help you out).

Interestingly there were 3 guided parties on the route - we were the third. All three topped out in 5-7 hours yet when I looked down I could see almost half of the route and you were not behind us so I assumed you had backed off.

I had the luxury of seconding the route and I felt it was good HVS territory (especially with a rucksack on). NO way could or should a budding VS leader get on it. The crux corner was/is english 5a in my opinion and slightly wet which added to the difficulties. I remember congratulating my mate on a good lead as it was a full 50m and pretty steep with some large loose flakes thrown in.

Anyway - following our descent we were concerned for your whereabouts and on meeting your mate back at the car the next day - helped him out with a lift and a mobile phone to make a few calls. I'm glad to hear you made it back safely.

Gerry

In reply to GerryA: cheers for the reply gerry. and thanks for sorting my friend out. have emailed you.