UKC

How much difference in longevity would you expect to see between the Genesis and the Phoenix? I'm thinking about getting a new set of doubles and wondering about the weight/wear trade-off.

In reply to Reach>Talent:
My pheonix are still going at 5 years old! I think I'll get atleast another year or two out of them yet!

In reply to Reach>Talent:
One thing to consider though is on 8mm having two seconds or climbing soley on one rope and then the other is not as safe (due to getting cut more easily). Also if you fall off a lot they will loose elasticity faster.

Personally my next ropes will be 8.5 mm but thats because most my climbing will not be in winter now and doesn't involve a lot of climbing with long walk ins now i don't live in scotland.

The longevity of the ropes won't factor in to it as they last long enough.

I climb less trad now I live in the SE though probably on average 15-20 weekends a year or something.

In reply to Reach>Talent:
Also you have ease of breaking to consider. Hard falls on 8mm ropes can be hard to hold on trad belay devices. Even devices designed for smaller ropes like the buggette will not perform as well as thicker ropes. If the buggette will hold falls better on 8mm than a ATC-XP will on 8.5 mm is something I don't know (maybe ask Jimtitt), but personally I would buy two skinny rope belay devices if you intend to use 8mm.

In reply to Reach>Talent: I think if you need to go for 60m for euro ice etcnthen go for the Phoenix. I wouldn't worry about wear too much. I have worn out sport ropes but not doubles (have both Phoenix and Genesis).

In reply to Morgan Woods:
Out of interest why would you not get the genesis in 60 m for euro ice?

In reply to Reach>Talent: Mammut phoenix last longer than any rope ive had,other peeps who have them will say he same,never had a problem holding falls on xp/guide etc.
I carry a bugette in case the belayer has an unsuitable device i.e. one without grooves/teeth.

In reply to CurlyStevo: mainly to save a bit of weight.

In reply to Reach>Talent: Phoenix - brilliant rope, light, handles well, robust, dry

In reply to cliff shasby: you wouldnt have a problem holding low factor falls especially once the rope is a bit worn in. Its higher factor falls where some rope slippage will occur that would cause issues. jimtit posted regarding this a year or two ago.

In reply to Morgan Woods: isnt most euro ice a small rack with shortish walkins?

In reply to CurlyStevo: I've held a factor 2 fall using a Phoenix and an ATC XP. No problem at all (apart from a little whiplash).

In reply to John2: no rope burns or slippage through the belay device?

In reply to cliff shasby:

Agreed Cliff

I've climbed on Phoenixs for a good 6 years now, trad, winter, ice, sea cliffs et al. Had no issue with wear & held several large falls on a variety of plates. Would def recommend something with grooves or teeth though - I use a guide or XP Pro.

Worth having 60s in my opinion for long abs - used the full lenghth several times this week in the Pass. Also good to be able to climb another 10m into trouble on cold Scottish winter climbs

In reply to CurlyStevo: None.

In reply to Reach>Talent:
Cheers for the comments. I've just ordered a pair of 50m phoenix from V12

In reply to CurlyStevo:

Its as much the weight you're dragging behing you if you've run out 40 - 5o metres.

In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:
I guess it depends how much euro ice you intend to climb on the ropes as compared to how much trad. Personally I've found rope drag more of an issue in summer than winter, but I take your point. Having owned pheonixes for quite a while the main advantage i've noticed is reduced size and weight for long walk ins, but the rope drag in summer is overall somewhat noticeably lower I think too.