/ Centrall Buttress Scafell

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armus on 15 Sep 2012
I seconded this route years ago, on a tight rope, apart from the traverse bits. Then if I remember correctly, it was graded as VS or HVS. Recently it has been graded E1 and in the last week on UKC as E2. I know that there has been a rockfall since I did it, but is that the only reason for the upgrade? Has it got harder since then? I respect the climber who quoted E2 by the way.
Mark Kemball - on 15 Sep 2012
In reply to armus: The crux pitch used to climb the great flake direct, via a large chockstone which was originally used for aid / combined tactics I believe. The chockstone came out a few years back, sadly killing a climber. It is possible to still climb the flake direct at E3 5c.
Ian Jones on 15 Sep 2012
In reply to armus:

It was always a joke at HVS. The 1990's guide gave it 5b, and yet still maintained the HVS rating. How can it be 5b, bold, strenuous and still HVS?

Always happy to clear these things up.
In reply to Ian Jones: I led it donkeys years ago before the disappearing chockstone and thought if was HVS 5b. Didn't aid it and thought it ok at that grade but imagine it desperate without chockstone.
Gordon Stainforth - on 15 Sep 2012
In reply to Allan McDonald (Gwydyr MC):
> (In reply to Ian Jones) I led it donkeys years ago before the disappearing chockstone and thought if was HVS 5b. Didn't aid it and thought it ok at that grade but imagine it desperate without chockstone.

Ditto. I think the guide I had said it was 5a, and it definitely seemed very fierce at that - the main problem being getting started on the layback, then a bit easier.

In reply to Ian Jones:
> (In reply to armus)
>How can it be 5b, bold, strenuous and still HVS?

It wasn't particularly bold though, at least not if you thought the chockstone a solid runner which everyone did, nor that strenuous - just a couple of quick layback moves and you had the top.


jonny taylor on 15 Sep 2012
In reply to armus:
For what my opinion is worth, I can't see how you could possibly describe it as E2 if you are on the correct line - though I've heard a number of people say they believe they took the wrong line onto and/or up the flake.

That pitch is significantly harder than any of the rest of the climb; I'd have thought HVS max for the rest of the route.
In reply to armus: You used to climb direct up the flake crack at HVS 5b, now the easiest way is to climb the front face of the flake at E1 5b. A friend of mine did the flake crack after the chockstone had gone and took a Friend 5 and 6 - with these he said it is E2.
Jon Stewart - on 16 Sep 2012
In reply to armus:

The grade of the route as it is now, going onto the front of the flake then up on small holds, is correct IMO at E1 5b and is certainly not E2 (given Saxon next door). It's a brilliant route in its current form, the exposed situation and a delicate bit of climbing make the highlight of this brilliant route. Next time I'll do it with the Nazgul finish - even better, they say.
Si dH - on 16 Sep 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to armus)
>
> The grade of the route as it is now, going onto the front of the flake then up on small holds, is correct IMO at E1 5b and is certainly not E2 (given Saxon next door). It's a brilliant route in its current form, the exposed situation and a delicate bit of climbing make the highlight of this brilliant route. Next time I'll do it with the Nazgul finish - even better, they say.


+1
armus on 16 Sep 2012
In reply to armus: I remember the chockstone. When we climbed the route we did it in boots not adhesive rock shoes, not even Pierre Alains.
Jonny2vests - on 16 Sep 2012
In reply to armus:

I wouldn't pay much attention to UKC grades, area moderators can change those. If it changes, it's not some official sanction.
jonny taylor on 16 Sep 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:
I think he just means some guy on ukc claimed he thought it was E2...
johnnorman on 16 Sep 2012
In reply to armus:

Climbed this route a few years ago after it being on my list of must do routes for many years.
It has to be one of the best HVS/E1 mountain routes in the lakes, really enjoyed. Crux pitch i thought was E1.
Bloody cold up there to !!
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Rog Wilko on 16 Sep 2012
In reply to johnnorman: I agree with every word of your post, especially about the temperature - could have written it myself! (Though I'm not really qualified to make a judgement on quality at that grade)

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