UKC

On the Ben early hours of Tuesday morning and it was snowing hard...
Went into the Shelter and it was full of rubbish AGAIN...

Not only the usual wrappers and juice bottles. But cans of beans and spam. A loaf of bread and some eejit carried up 2litres of milk and left about 3/4s of it...

I loathe these people!!!

Also, some events company have not bothered to take away their direction markers from the path... lazy sh*tes...

E

In reply to Euge: Oh... Anyway, Roll on Winter ...

In reply to Euge:

Could be worse. Could be sh1t in the shelter again Wouldn't be the first time!

Did you note the company? Send them an email.

In reply to Euge:
.

Could it be for an upcoming event? I think theres something on this w/e?
But yeah roll-on big snow!

In reply to Padraig:


No it was old.. Hot Fuss Events, or something like that!!

In reply to Milesy:

Imagine being on your last legs, seeking shelter and finding that...

Now I'm a pacifist... But... I would Kill...

E

In reply to Euge: did you leave the trash there or carry it down.

In reply to Barber Baz: Carried some of it down... I left my skip at home!!!

In reply to Euge:

haha indeed. I usually always carry rubbish down if I am on the summit in summer. Hard to even make a dent some days.

In reply to Euge:

It's baffling that people can leave so much crap around - but at least you win massive karma points from the mountain and it will smile upon your winter excursions this season

In reply to Euge:

I was on the top on sat pm - It was Macmillan that were doing the event I think. I saw an AMI marshall fella dealing with some folks with cramps as we joined the throng at the top of the Zig Zags, but didn't recognise him.

'Kin folks everywhere. Yes, I gathered a wee collection of bottles, a sardine can and various other bits of detritus before escaping the crowds back down the CMD.

After being incensed at the mess, I organised the marshalling for a charity earlier this year, by way of trying to stop them s****g behind the big stone at the Halfway Lochan path junction, (you know, money where my mouth is and all that) It was some of the most exhausting leading I have ever done, for all sorts of reasons. 146 out of 150 made the summit.
But I think I can honestly say that between me and my mates, we managed to not leave a mark on the mountain by some serious 'safety and awareness' talks beforehand. Pass my halo...........

In reply to Euge:

I was up the Ben at about 5am last October and weather got a bit mental just as we were about to descend.

Took shelter in the refuge. Ended up taking 2 plastic bags full of rubbish back down with us. Can't understand why people would make the journey up there and think it appropriate to dump stuff? Just seems bizarre.

In reply to Euge:

No Fuss Events.

In reply to tom290483:

Thank you, I have sent them a polite email and also asked them to raise awareness of the litter issue to their clients.

Cheers
E

In reply to Euge:

I wonder what the JMT's position on litter being left by organised events is? Can't imagine that they would be too happy. Then again, their response might well be to remove the shelter!

Good that you have chased up the organisers to alert them of this issue(may not even be one of their clients mind you).

In reply to Euge: Are the markers from the race?

In reply to Euge:

I think the only No Fuss event that goes to the summit is The Big Ben Triathlon, it is hard to imagine any participants hanging around on the summit or carting tins of beans etc up there.

In reply to IainRUK: There was a cancer event going on Saturday, as well as a race/triathlon of some sort. The race folk from what I could see were on the whole clued up and moving quickly. There were markers on the path, as well as many lengths of hazard tape along the cliffs of the summit (I assume marking the hazard of blindly walking off the *obvious* cliffs...) Is it these that have not been taken down?

I spotted an onion in the rocks of the base of the summit shelter.

I took a group of beginners up the CMD and down the tourist route (Oxford Street?) It was mental as ever. Jeans, Converse etc etc all a plenty. I did feel sorry for the lady who lost her iPad after it slid out of her bag on the upper slopes!

In reply to swhitinguk: I need to add, from what I saw, all the people carrying obvious charity markings were all dressed properly for what was a very windy and chilly day on the hill.

In reply to swhitinguk: Races are normally pretty good at removing their tape.. they do tape off the top of the gullies in the race though.

In reply to Euge:
I'm working up there tomorrow, I'll take a bin bag and see what I can get

In reply to Horse:

I know that... it was their markers I was on about... The triathalon was on last week and goes to the half way lochan.

Cheers
E

In reply to Euge:

Know Fuss Events is a responsible, Lochaber-based company run by responsible, Lochaber-based people who love the Ben (likewise the Ben Nevis Race Association). The 'Big Ben Nevis Triathlon' goes to the summit whereas the 'Half Ben Nevis Triathlon' goes (surprise, surprise!) to the 'half way' point at the Red Burn. Saturday's ground-level (weighted) tape across the gullies at the summit looked suspiciously similar to the tape from the Ben Race two weeks previously, but could have been new. Whatever, I'm surprised to hear it's apparently still there, but sure that anything left by either race will be cleared soon if it hasn't been already!

In reply to petestack:

I did send them a polite email... honest...

In reply to Euge: On behalf of No Fuss Events, I would like to apologise for our oversight on not removing the directional markers left behind at Heart Attack hill junction, they have now been so. With regards to general littering on the Ben (and it doesn't only apply there!), we are also appaled at what is left behind by some people. Our ethos is if you can be bothered to carry it up full, you should be prepared to carry it down empty!

In reply to petestack:

Can't believe I typed that and didn't knowtice! :-O

P

In reply to ljs1978: Thank you... and I'm sure you know I wasn't blaming ye for the mess in the shelter... I was just having a rant!!!

Cheers
Euge

In reply to professionalwreckhead:


The Ben track attracts a very different demographic to any other mountain walk, and many of those on the path clearly don't have the ingrained respect for the mountain environment or indeed for the countryside in general that we do. This is regrettable, but is not going to change and just has to be managed.

The JMT organise regular litter-picks which are fun, sociable events and usually remove several sackloads of detritus from the mountain, but we can all help this process by picking up something every time we go out - I always do so.

Temporary signage, barriers and banners from events do look a wee bit incongruous, but to be honest the Ben is not the hill to go up if you want to get away from all that! As long as they are taken down by the last team off the hill I see no real issue.

A harder one to deal with is that of human waste. At present there are a handful of spots by the path that lend themselves to seekers of cover, and as a result are frankly revolting. Clearly if approx 5,000 bodies are ascending the Ben on a peak season day, a percentage will have to drop their loads. Is there maybe a more critical discussion to be had about how to deal with that? Portaloos? Poo-tubes?

In reply to Jamie Bankhead:

That demographic you're talking about: if they're not prepared to take their general litter off the hill, they certainly aren't going to be arsed to use a tube (sorry!). Personaly I favour the use of strategically placed spycams relaying looped video to giant screens at the Glen Nevis visitor centre car park.

Flippancy aside, the defilement of our mountains and increasingly limited wilderness is a real problem that is only going to get worse if things carry on unchecked and I'm sure we all agree strongly with the carry it in, carry it out/leave no trace philosophy. Unfortunately though there will always be idiots who will toss their wrappers, drink cartons etc, (the "why should I worry, my little bit of rubbish won't make any difference" mentality). I also think the arduous nature of ascending hills like the Ben are quite underestimated by many inexperienced folk who, having consumed their goodies (or some of them) en route to the summit realise that considerable effort remains in getting up and down and are misguided enough to factor the carrying of rubbish, that half a cake, pint of milk etc. into that effort and end up jettisoning it.

At the moment there seems to be a growing number of people who are prepared to take other's rubbish for appropriate disposal. It's not ideal but it is leading by example and hopefully in addition to the cleanup parties may lead to more responsible attitudes in others. I usually carry a couple off plastic bags specifically for other people's litter. For those who don't because they know how easily a plastic bag can be damaged and the contents emptied over your kit, I find a drybag to put them in solves that problem too.

As far as human waste is concerned, for most of the population if it's OK for sheep and cows how can there possibly be a problem? Aside from the general revulsion of stumbling across a pile of human faeces or dodging brown smeared tissue paper blowing around in the wind, the general health issues around intestinal pathogens contaminating the local area etc are neither known nor of interest. If someone ignorant of the issues needs to "offload" and they come across somewhere others have done so, they will assume it's ok to do likewise and the concentration of waste is added to.

What is really needed is proper education, say with appropriate information on maps, guidebooks, tourist leaflets, signs in the car park, that sort of thing. Unfortunately, like information on going proplerly equiped, I fear it will fall on many deaf ears.

In reply to Nigel Evans:


All of that exists already, and although it probably does resonate with some, it clearly doesn't with many others. I'm inclined to think that the Walker's path on Ben Nevis is a special case, one mountain route where we must resign ourselves to crowding, litter and loss of ambience and simply seek to manage the results. For what it's worth, the trade-off to the local economy is not inconsiderable.

In reply to Euge:
Well, I brought a bunch of stuff down yesterday... Many rotting banana skins, plastic bottles, wrappers etc. I couldn't bring the milk tho - hadn't the stomach for it... I hate milk. There is still more so if anyone else is about then maybe they could help a little too
Isi

In reply to isi_o:


Thank you...

E

In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
I'm inclined to think that the Walker's path on Ben Nevis is a special case, one mountain route where we must resign ourselves to crowding, litter and loss of ambience and simply seek to manage the results. For what it's worth, the trade-off to the local economy is not inconsiderable.

Its a pity but I dont think it is a special case. There are muppets everywhere who despite all the signage and education in the world just dont give a stuff. The sheer numbers walking on the Ben and others similar like Snowdon just show up the problem more clearly.

All we can do is not let them get away with if we see them drop the litter, leave the gate open etc.

In reply to Euge:

I'm going up there tomorrow, if I spy any litter I shall bring it down thus restoring the balance of order to the world (well UKC at any rate).

In reply to Euge: Went up there today, good covering of snow made things real purty and probably covered up a fair bit of rubbish. Took a bag of trash down which had been left in the shelter. After coming up the CMD my brother was amazed at the hordes in shorts and trainers who had come up the pony track.
Not nearly enough cairns on that path eh.

In reply to alan wilson:
>After coming up the CMD my brother was amazed at the hordes in shorts and trainers who had come up the pony track.


What was the weather like on the Ben today? Certainly not as forecast further north.

In reply to drmarten: Cloudy with some sun, occ'l snow showers, light to no wind, about -1 C on top.

In reply to Euge:

A few weeks back I sat on the summit and watched three guys eat bananas then pile the skins up on top of a rock and walk off. I walked over and said 'excuse me I think you've forgotten to take your banana skins'

I got a quizzical look but they picked them up. Like everyone else on here I'm incredulous that anyone would consider that acceptable anywhere, much less on a mountain top.

In reply to DaveHK:

Well the weather on Saturday was amazing. Had a ramble up the CMD arete to the summit and there wasn't as much rubbish as I'd expected given how good the weather was and how busy it was - there were parts up to the path to the CIC where we were queuing!

Anyway here's the rubbish I managed to find :-P
http://www.vataxaccountancy.co.uk/rubbish.jpg

In reply to Richard Carter:
Good effort, I see there is the standard issue can of monster/rockstar energy drink and by way of ironic novelty a bottle of highland spring. its a bit like buying a toblerone from asda and taking it to switzerland

In reply to blanchie14c:

Yeah, could have done without the champagne bottle I guess but it's not like it's hard carrying stuff down the mountain.

In reply to Euge: Last time I was up there was this spring and I simply couldn't believe the state of the shelter....these people want shooting. Seriously forget all the mamby pamby nicely nicely approach these people are beyond reproach and deserve a good 'telling off'. Accepting that rubbish is going to be left is as good as condoning this behavour. I understand it perhaps not quite that simple in the real world but leaving rubbish in the mountains is totally inexcusable.
Top marks to all you guys who have removed other peoples crap.

In reply to Wainers44: How's this for an idea. Everybody wishing to go on or up the Ben during ,say the three months of high summer pays a fee. Lets set it at a modest £5, each person is then given a binbag for their own or anybody elses rubbish. On their return those that hand in their binbags get
their £5 back and an appreciative thank you. Those that dont lose their £5
and it can be donated to the MRT so they can go and look for them.

Organisations can't really get away with handing out harsh words to punters on the hill. I have never hesitated to use harsh words to people littering on the hills.

In reply to Milesy:
I have never hesitated to use harsh words to people littering on the hills.

I am sure they listened carefully and never did it again.

In reply to Euge:
I always carry a placky bag to pick up rubbish on the hill, I also do it around home. It often pays off, the other week I removed a carrier bag from a hedge and it had 16 cans of Stella in it. Some teenagers stash I reckon. I felt it my civic duty to drink it. My mate picked up a tenner a while ago doing the same thing.

In reply to MG:

I dont care if they didn't. They do at the time.

In reply to Euge:

i have it on good authority that some of a pary of 100 doing the 3 peaks challenge that started off on the ben on saturday were from the first direct bank in leeds and were doing it for a charitable cause . by the looks of this thread its a shame the cause was not keep britain tidy .

In reply to alpine69:
It'd be interesting to find out how much the charity got out of it and how much it would cost to ofset 100 pairs of boots and associated litter