/ Cenotaph Corner

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charlie 1 - on 24 Sep 2012
After getting there early on saturday and finding it wet we did cemetery gates. no problems great climb the corner had dried on the face but was wet in the crack.
So thinking it doesn't look to hard i set off !! bridging up saving energy. First hard move done looking good just below the crux i was thinking this a long route my first sign of elvis leg starting. So im at the crux now with a dripping wet hand jam nice! To say i was a little tired after the crux is an under statement so all i have to do is some easy climbing to the top.F**k me i crawled over the top Knackered.After getting my breath my second came up and crawled over the top unable to speak for ten minutes.After laughing and saying it was character building is this in the running for one of the hardest E1s? or am i a poof lmao
Steve Perry - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: Good effort
GrahamD - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:

Its solid E1 - good and fair. Cemetry Gates seems to oscillate between HVS and E1.
Kevster - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
My mate had a similar experience too, breakdancing the top out on his belly. Oh I laughed!
jimtitt - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
A bit puffed after doing the Corner, wait till you get to Swanage E1s!
Gordon Stainforth - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:

No, you found it as many do. The finish is very mean, even when bone dry. Like you, I was absolutely shattered when I got to the top (only just made it). You did really well in wet conditions. Congratulations.
Ian Jones on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to jimtitt:
> (In reply to charlie 1)
> A bit puffed after doing the Corner, wait till you get to Swanage E1s!

I thought some of them were dead easy.

I would happily give C.C. E2 5c.

Goucho on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: Fine lead in the wet sir.
Robert Durran - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to Ian Jones:

> I would happily give C.C. E2 5c.

In which case Left Wall E3? (which it always was imo).

GrahamD - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to Ian Jones:

> I would happily give C.C. E2 5c.

Surely CC is pretty much a benchmark E1 ? if you found other E1s a grade eaasier maybe they weren't E1s really ?

Kevster - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Sorry, found left wall a path @ E2. Direct I believe is E3 in the book, but I haven't done it.. Equally I haven't repeated left wall either. So my one ascent might be utter pish in the wind.
Enty - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Ian Jones)
>
> [...]
>
> In which case Left Wall E3? (which it always was imo).

Interesting!

I took a pisser off LW back in the 80's but that wasn't because it's a hard E2 it's because I was crap.

E
stonemaster - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: Damn fine effort, what?
GrahamD - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to Kevster:

I reckon LW IS just a grade harder than CC.
mr mills - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
CC benchmark E1 LW benchmark E2, LW Direct harder but deffo not E3 !
rurp - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: just reading jerry moffats book. he soloed gates,corner,left wall, memory lane, foil and right wall on the same morning.

The only ones that he commented on being a bit hard/scary were the corner and foil, thats got to say something...

I found the corner hard for the top 15ft in the dry, (bit like RU is hard, see previous thread!). Don't expect an upgrade from the UKclimbing faithful. classic brown routes keep their grade.
Cheese Monkey - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: I've done the Cornish version and I was pretty similar afterwards! Would love to get on CC though, looks like a beautiful line
johncoxmysteriously - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to rurp:

>The only ones that he commented on being a bit hard/scary were the corner and foil, thats got to say something...

I guess what it says to me is that at that stage in his career Jerry wasn't as good at cracks as he was at everything else.

jcm
Robert Durran - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
> (In reply to rurp)
>
> >The only ones that he commented on being a bit hard/scary were the corner and foil, thats got to say something...
>
> I guess what it says to me is that at that stage in his career Jerry wasn't as good at cracks as he was at everything else.

I says to me that Foil has the hardest climbing and Cenotaph Corner the most insecure climbing.


Robert Durran - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to mr mill
> LW benchmark E2

Definitive bottom end E3. Shouild never have been downgraded.
Gordon Stainforth - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

(Or at least rather high end E2, rather than 'benchmark')
mr mills - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

How can it possibly be a full grade harder ?

It`s only 20ft of climbing with good gear, it`s the logical line but, a full grade harder no, imo anyhow !
Robert Durran - on 24 Sep 2012
In reply to mr mills:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> How can it possibly be a full grade harder ?
>
> It`s only 20ft of climbing with good gear.

Has it shrunk? Last time I was there it was about 150 ft.
Jonny2vests - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> In reply to mr mill
> [...]
>
> Definitive bottom end E3. Shouild never have been downgraded.

Wow. After telling me to man up a couple of weeks ago Robert, I may have to reciprocate. Eat some weetabix.
Jonny2vests - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to mr mills:
> (In reply to GrahamD)
> CC benchmark E1 LW benchmark E2, LW Direct harder but deffo not E3 !

Amen brother. I almost felt guilty taking E3 for 3 more (protected) moves.
Double Knee Bar - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: Were you and your mate in blue? I was watching from the boulders, inspired me to get up there.
charlie 1 - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Double Knee Bar: Yes I was in blue with a red face blowing out my ass lol
Hat Dude on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:

I wish you'd used a comma; I've got a horrible mental image now ;-)
stonemaster - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
> ( with a red face blowing out my ass lol

Ye Gods!
GrahamD - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:

> Yes I was in blue with a red face blowing out my ass lol

It will certainly have felt considerably harder than E1 climbed in this style.
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JuneBob on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
Ah right - I was hoping to climb it this weekend (as it's the only weekend I've got) but looking at the weather that might not be the best idea, especially as I've never tried a route that hard in the UK...
charlie 1 - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Hat Dude: It's better than blowing in my ass . Punctuation is not my strong point :)
HappyTrundler - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I was on Left Wall over the weekend, thought for an onsight lead it was definitely top end E2 or E3, certainly a lot harder than say Strand at E2. It's true that getting up to the niche is not hard climbing, there are lots of good holds, the problem is there is lots of bomb proof gear, and I can't climb past a bomber placement when I don't know where the next one is, so you get pumped putting gear in so that makes the crux hard cos you're knackered when you get there...I will return and do it properly next time....
charlie 1 - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Double Knee Bar: Thinking about it I'd taken my blue rab off just before I did the corner .There was a guy and I think his missus in blue . He warmed up on left wall did cemetery gates then floated up right wall ,I think you may have seen him not me lol
Jonny2vests - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to HappyTrundler:

Yeah, but you can tell from the bottom that there's a crack all the way, so the next runner is wherever you like.
Si dH - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to HappyTrundler:
Yer but the Strand is almost e1 :)

Cg is soft e1, cc hard e1, lw soft/middling e2. in my opinion the difference between cc and lw is only a quarter of a grade.
Philip M - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:

Personally, having mostly climbed on grit and HVS / E1 being my comfortable limit, I thought that cenotaph corner and cemetery gates both felt like HVS 5a / 5b.
Rampikino - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Philip M:

I think I am with you on this one.

I actually found Cenotaph Corner to be quite straightforward and certainly didn't feel like 5c. E1 has been the very upper part of my grade for a while now.
HappyTrundler - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Si dH:
Left Wall soft/middle E2? Utter nonsense, ok for you though because your sport grade is much harder than your trad grade...
jessyb - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
Great lead mate. Now you'll have to do it again in the dry sometime for comparison. ;)
Si dH - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to HappyTrundler:
When I did left wall my top sport grade was 6c and I was solely a trad climber. It is e1 to a hands off rest then a 5m e2 section which is a bit sustained, but you can go up and down placing gear from the rest before going for the crux moves, and then after that youre on jugs to the top.
Bulls Crack - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to Ian Jones)
>
> [...]
>
> Surely CC is pretty much a benchmark E1 ? if you found other E1s a grade eaasier maybe they weren't E1s really ?


Benchmark E1 5c? Its a hardish 1 as the Llanberis guide graded list shows.

And it is 5c too. No question
Robert Durran - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Si dH:
> (In reply to HappyTrundler)
> When I did left wall my top sport grade was 6c and I was solely a trad climber.

Eh?
HappyTrundler - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Si dH:

Ok, so you think Stand 'almost E1' and Left Wall 'soft/middling E2', so for most people, bar a quarter grade, as you would say, think Strand and Left Wall are pretty much the same grade?...I doubt many on here would agree with you if they have led both climbs...
Cardi - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: I very nearly fluffed the crux on cenotaph corner earlier this month, was much closer to falling off this than left wall last month...Definately not an easy E1 or 5b
snoop6060 - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to HappyTrundler:

The strand is no way harder than E1, left wall is soft E2. Left wall direct is probably fair at E2, but only as the crux section is longer, its not actually harder. In any case, left wall should describe the line that does go direct, the left hand finish is a joke and should not count.



a lakeland climber on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to snoop6060:

With you on this one: Left Wall is soft E2. Cenotaph Corner is straightforward until the last 8 metres then it gets mean! I find it harder than LW, certainly for the crux move. Mind you I've thin fingers so the leftwards slanting crack on LW is relatively easy.

ALC
Robert Durran - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to HappyTrundler)
>
> The strand is no way harder than E1, left wall is soft E2. Left wall direct is probably fair at E2.

I know that grades are, arguably, up to a point, a matter of opinion, but that really is ridiculous.

> Left wall should describe the line that does go direct, the left hand finish is a joke and should not count.

The jugs out left are the line of least resistance and the original line, providing a finish of character. Not a joke.

Goucho on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to snoop6060: I reckon LW is solid E2, and FWIW, I reckon Strand is top end E1.

CC is solid E1, and probably has a harder 5c crux move than LW, but apart from this, and the 5b move at 20', the rest of the route is straightforward bomb-proof VS.
Jonny2vests - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to HappyTrundler)
>
> The strand is no way harder than E1, left wall is soft E2. Left wall direct is probably fair at E2, but only as the crux section is longer, its not actually harder. In any case, left wall should describe the line that does go direct, the left hand finish is a joke and should not count.

Agree, LW is soft.

If people don't like that, then maybe they're not as fit as they could be, but there are no technically hard moves on it and you never have to pull hard either.
Compo - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to Kevster:
> (In reply to charlie 1)
> My mate had a similar experience too, breakdancing the top out on his belly. Oh I laughed!

Think you're talking about me there Kev. What you say ia accurate though - you neglect to mention the swearing though.
Of course I also remember you calling down a worried 'watch me' on the crux. A much cooler response than my 'the gear won't fit'.

In my view its the hardest E1 I've done. Really pumpy, polished and wet. I've done a lot of E1s now and can't think of a more traumatic or exhausting experience.
Kemics - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:

left wall has been a dream tick of mine for ages, only problem is I have utterly pants endurance...oh dear.
Julian Wedd on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to Kemics:

Take a proper rest at the niche, place some gear in the crack above, rest some more.....
charlie 1 - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: I think I'll try left wall next time it sounds easier ;)
charlie 1 - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to limey: I'll try in the dry next time there a dry day in Wales, could be next year at this rate :)
Jim Nevill - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Kemics:
Me too! I found CC OK-ish, and I was just a steady VS leader at the time, but trained hard at Mile End for a bit beforehand. Very intimidating walking up to it, I felt like I was heading for the firing line, but once on it totally absorbing, and more pro than you can carry. So all this beta about LW is revving me up no end. As has been said, roll on a dry day! (But I'll do CG first to get my head straight)
Jon Stewart - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to HappyTrundler)
>
> The strand is no way harder than E1, left wall is soft E2.

He's right you know.

simon cox - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
Charlie 1,

Enjoy the moment - sounds like an awesome experience - I think CC is a bit sequency - I have found it tricky but sometimes easy - slightly out of form earlier in the year I did Fork Lightening Crack at Heptonstall - it was like back on my first ever Grit VS - had to lie down on the ledge just below the top for about 10 mins to recover... I put my desperate effort down to modern gear - taking large friends and not using them - they weigh a ton!

Happy days,
James Oswald - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to HappyTrundler:
I did both LW and the Strand a few weeks ago. I thought LW was ok but harder than the strand. The strand has a couple of moves at 5b, but is mostly 5a jug pulling. TS didn't seem pumpy to me, I just got tired from the massive amount of climbing.

LW has two hard sections - the first one which I thought was toughish 5b and the second that was 5c. If you rest well in the niche before the final crux then it doesn't feel too bad. They are both brilliant routes.
jimtitt - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1:


For those who remember the classic John Cleare photo of Rusty Baillie on the corner that one bought as a postcard in Llanberis back in the day, he climbed it with one sling for the chockstone and a karabiner for the top peg. Hes still active and were going climbing in November.
If you want Ill send you a photo of myself roping up for the Corner on my 21st birthday (1973). In the rain. With four nuts as gear. In woollen climbing breeches no less!
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stonemaster - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to jimtitt: Wow! Post it here, man.
David_A - on 29 Sep 2012
In reply to charlie 1: I think I'm getting the gist ...

Classic E1, some find it a little harder on the day some a little easier, others agree E1. Classic E2, some find it a little harder on the day some a little easier, others agree E2.

... thankfully we have forums to get to the bottom of these grading mysteries.
charlie 1 - on 29 Sep 2012
In reply to simon cox:
> (In reply to charlie 1)
> Charlie 1,
>
> Enjoy the moment - sounds like an awesome experience - I think CC is a bit sequency - I have found it tricky but sometimes easy - slightly out of form earlier in the year I did Fork Lightening Crack at Heptonstall - it was like back on my first ever Grit VS - had to lie down on the ledge just below the top for about 10 mins to recover... I put my desperate effort down to modern gear - taking large friends and not using them - they weigh a ton!
>
> Happy days,
I was up in heptonstall working for about 8 months . I climbed there most nights self belaying had to wait for a partner to tick them off . I bought a big cam for fork lighting and set off with out my quick draws my partner chucked them up to me at the ledge then never used my draws and cam anyway . I had a lie down at the ledge lol
charlie 1 - on 29 Sep 2012
In reply to jimtitt: it'll be great to see you photo .
Wilbur - on 30 Sep 2012
In reply to snoop6060:
> (In reply to HappyTrundler)
>
> In any case, left wall should describe the line that does go direct, the left hand finish is a joke and should not count.

The left hand finish being the easiest route up and hence the true line. Is that what you mean?!



GrahamD - on 01 Oct 2012
In reply to jimtitt:

Its probably because of the woolen breeches its polished to hell nowdays :-)
Bulls Crack - on 01 Oct 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to jimtitt)
>
> Its probably because of the woolen breeches its polished to hell nowdays :-)

Probably! But oddly not slippery - smooth yes - that's natural products for you
The Pylon King on 01 Oct 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to charlie 1)
>
> Cemetry Gates seems to oscillate between HVS and E1.

yep, its in the Classic E0 book
GMLFTCW - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
I was the second on the day in question, in fact I'm usually the second in situations
like this lol. I can confirm that the only thing that was taking my mind off
the most horrendous burning in my forearms I've ever had, was the fact I was using all
my powers of concentration to to breath for 5 minutes after topping out! :-0
It was never gonna be a lead for me, maybe next year, but my aim was to get to the top without sitting on the rope which I'm glad to say I did. I have done a bit of hand jamming in the past- but not in puddles! Fortunately Charlie_1 places gear well so none of it put up too much of a fight, I just told myself to keep moving and the pain would be over sooner rather than later. I can confirm the staff in V12 were surprised we'd got up it and I could only just lift my tea in Pete's Eats - although it was a pint :-).....
charlie 1 - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to GMLFTCW: yes he was there but he's tall so it's easier for him lol
GMLFTCW - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to charlie 1:
Yes I am tall, but that means its higher for me so I'm
actually further passed the gear lol.

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