/ Drone Footage From Trango Climb

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Damo on 25 Sep 2012
This is some of the best mountain footage I have ever seen. Revolutionary.

Lama and friends climbing on Nameless Trango, shot from a drone.

http://www.vimeo.com/50029357
pneame on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo: stunning. Absolutely incredible.
Far too short. Could have watched forever
Thx
woolsack - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo: Excellent. Shame the people of Pakistan must be getting a little bit twitchy about drones flying over them :(
Dom Whillans on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:
gob-smacking; shots which may finally make mountains and climbing look interesting to joe public...
GrendeI on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo: Wow, that has just made my day! Thank you for sharing!
Cthulhu on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:

Awe-inspiring! Thanks for sharing..
ericinbristol - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:

Stunning and beautiful!

But I also can't push out of my mind that for many Pakistanis drones represent horror and terror
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/25/drone-attacks-pakistan-counterproductive-report
Incredible that the US gets away with doing this kind of thing.
ChrisJD on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:

Amazing footage, WOW!
Wee Davie - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:

Incredible footage. Does a Radio Controlled helicopter qualify as a 'drone' though?
ChrisJD on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Wee Davie:

Drone was probably not the best term for the OP to use for footage in Pakistan. The video says helicopter....
woolsack - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to ChrisJD: I suspect that Pakistani children will still run for cover irrespective of what the thread is called :(
Mikkel - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Wee Davie:
> (In reply to Damo)
>
> Incredible footage. Does a Radio Controlled helicopter qualify as a 'drone' though?

why not, the drones you think of is a big RC plane.
Wee Davie - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Mikkel:

The word 'drone' has so many sinister military connotations attached to it nowadays...
People fly model aircraft up the Braes near me sometimes. I don't think I'd say, 'nice drone, pal.'
Damo on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Wee Davie:
> (In reply to Damo)
>
> Incredible footage. Does a Radio Controlled helicopter qualify as a 'drone' though?

Yes, they're commonly called drones, though the more correct the term is UAV. It might be a bit unfortunate that this particular footage is in Pakistan, which currently has an issue with other types of drones.

And the ones doing jobs like this and causing some concern are a bit more than rc helicopters. Though toys are being used for recreational stuff, the trend is to more powerful purpose built craft, some costing over 10K.

Here in Australia - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-21/drone-journalism-takes-off/3840616

Same in the UK: http://loveforlife.com.au/content/10/02/23/unmanned-drones-set-give-defence-lift-amy-wilson-telegrap...
niallk on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:

Great footage.

I must admit, regardless of what they're called by those in the know, I assumed this would be some sort of released military footage that happened to have caught the expedition on camera. Obviously the reailty was much better than that.
In reply to Wee Davie:

> The word 'drone' has so many sinister military connotations attached to it nowadays...
> People fly model aircraft up the Braes near me sometimes. I don't think I'd say, 'nice drone, pal.'

My neighbour has taken to building RC helicopters and planes. He's a total engineering geek which means his copter is amazing. He integrated a camera into it which relays a picture to his lap top meaning he can fly it out of sight (supposedly illegal in Finland) and we were chatting about how basically this made it a reconnaissance UAV. He could easily fly it up to your bedroom window for instance! I'm amazed if some paparazzo hasn't sussed this out yet. He bought some parts from US webshops and had to sign some export control papers because obviously the US govt. is interested in who is buying what. In the 2006 Lebanon war, Hezbollah got a home made (basically a hobby kit) UAV dozens of miles into Israel. Israeli air defences missed it, and it got shot down by sight eventually IIRC. It had no weapons on it, but I think they had put cameras on it. Some police forces also have access to them now in the UK - so much cheaper than a helicopter to use for surveillance or search missions.

It's a really interesting area where laws are changing and are going to need to change.
Robert Durran - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Wee Davie:
> (In reply to Mikkel)
>
> The word 'drone' has so many sinister military connotations attached to it nowadays...


So should we not mention that people use a knife to cut their abseil tat when retreating off Ben Nevis in case people get upset about the connotations with knife crime in the dark recesses opf Fort William?
Wee Davie - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Sorry, can't be arsed to reply.
Robert Durran - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Wee Davie:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Sorry, can't be arsed to reply.

Odd response.

A) Why not?
B) Then why have you?

Frank the Husky - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Absolutely, you should be mentioning that link. After all, the link between a tiny drone on an expedition which everyone on the trip is fully aware of, and one that's 3m long, operates on stealth and carries a rack of Hellfires is about as obvious. Well done sir.
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Phil Payne - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo: There is a big distinction between a UAV and a remotely piloted aircraft which has a video downlink, also known as FPV (First Person View)

A UAV means that it has some sort of autopilot system and can fly multiple waypoints (or 'missions') without user input. These are more tightly controlled by governments because you can imagine the implications of this.

FPV is more of a recreational activity of piloting an aircraft as if you were in the vehicle itself, hence the name First Person View. This has lately become very popular for people doing aerial photography/videography and is relatively easy to achieve.

In the last couple of years these 'Drones' (called that because it sounds a bit better than multicopter/quadcopter/hexacopter/octocopter) have become really popular and accessible mainly due to the advancements in mobile phone technology. They use a combination of gyros, accelerometers, magnetometers, altimeter and GPS to stabilise them. You can put together a basic model capable of lifting a small GoPro type camera for less than 200.

Once you start carrying bigger cameras and add more features the cost can soon sky rocket and can easily pass the 10k mark.

Here is a video that my friend made using his 7k Octocopter. It weighs in at about 7kg fully loaded.

Enjoy: http://www.vimeo.com/50029357
Phil Payne - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Phil Payne:

Oops, I posted a link to the original video. Here's the one that my friend made: http://www.vimeo.com/49448485
jonathan shepherd - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo: Great little film, just wondering where the pilot is operating the drone from, they must have a hell of a range judging by some of the footage.
Paul Hy - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo: Wow, thanls for letting us see it.
Phil Payne - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to jonathan shepherd:

In the first few seconds of the video, I can see that the pilot has a long range UHF radio control system hooked up to his transmitter. These systems have a range of over 20km. Equally the video system can easily transmit that distance using a directional antenna on the video receiver.

The limiting factor for these sort of aircraft is flight duration. At normal altitude you would typically get 10-15 minutes of flight time, but as efficiency will drop off at altitude I would be surprised if they managed much more than 5-7 minutes. Based on those sort of flight times I guess that the pilot was actually quite close by and certainly on the shots of them high up on the rockface, they must have carried the copter up with them and launched from a belay.
Robert Durran - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to The Vicar of Chinley:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Absolutely, you should be mentioning that link. After all, the link between a tiny drone on an expedition which everyone on the trip is fully aware of, and one that's 3m long, operates on stealth and carries a rack of Hellfires is about as obvious. Well done sir.

No problem. Exactly the point I was making. I really don't know what the fuss is all about. Extraordinary..... Obviously technologies can have both benign and malevolent applications.
dek - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:
Excellent! nice touch the climber slipping off at 01.41.
Damo on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Phil Payne:
> (In reply to Damo) There is a big distinction between a UAV and a remotely piloted aircraft ...

Not here in Australia there isn't.

"UAVs to be classified as either micro, small or large with separate rules applicable to each category
Micro UAVs are largely exempt from regulation while a small UAV may be flown by an unqualified person in certain conditions without any form of certification. A large UAV,on the other hand, is a de-facto manned aircraft and must generally be certificated and registered and its controllers qualified ..."

from http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PARTS101

There have been several related stories in the media here lately and CASA is referring to all such machines as UAVs.

Such as: "Well a little more high-tech in the region this morning. If you've noticed some strange objects buzzing around the skies over your place lately, you've most likely seen a UAV, that is, an unmanned aerial vehicle. Perhaps better known as drones."
From: http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_100901

Australia was one of the first countries to implement legislation regarding their use, over 10 years ago.

On this Trango trip, flight times were around 10 minutes each.
Colin Wells - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:
> This is some of the best mountain footage I have ever seen. Revolutionary.
>
> Lama and friends climbing on Nameless Trango, shot from a drone.
>
> http://www.vimeo.com/50029357

Talking of 'shot from a drone'; coincidentally there's a report just been issued on the effects of the US military UAVs on the civvie population:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-19704981

- the Mammut minicopter used looks remarkably similar to one of the robot 'Nano Quadrocopters' recently starring in Tubeland thanks to their strangely sinister formation flying:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQzuL60V9ng

Presumably it's only a matter of time before the more publicity-conscious climber will be able to dispense with the services of videographers or headcams and will be accompanied at all times by their personal flying camera bot...
ChrisJD on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to The Vicar of Chinley)
> [...]
>
> No problem. Exactly the point I was making. I really don't know what the fuss is all about. Extraordinary..... Obviously technologies can have both benign and malevolent applications.

I find it 'extraordinary' that you can't see why people are making the link to military drones.

Historically, the word 'drone' isn't exactly widely used is it. The only context that 99% of people now encounter this word is in the very recent common News use in relation to military air strikes. Hey presto - a link is formed.

It's really not difficult to comprehend. Please try harder.

.
Shearwater - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Colin Wells:
> Presumably it's only a matter of time before the more publicity-conscious climber will be able to dispense with the services of videographers or headcams and will be accompanied at all times by their personal flying camera bot...

This is a project I've been thinking about for a little while ;-)

Battery life is the principle problem. As it stands, a 15 minute battery life in a multicopter is considered pretty good. I don't think I'm quite up to the challenge of designing a control system that'll let a little UAV swoop down and perch on your helmet to change batteries right now.

Much easier to have a drone-herder with you to deal with their care and feeding, I reckon.
Robert Durran - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to ChrisJD:
> I find it 'extraordinary' that you can't see why people are making the link to military drones.

Well obviously people are.
Though even if I had made the connection on reading the OP, it certainly wouldn't have occurred to me to make a fuss about it; a shame that someone saw fit to try to divert a thread about a bit of film into a political one (however worthwhile that discussion might have been in another context).
ChrisJD on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

> a shame that someone saw fit to try to divert a thread about a bit of film into a political one (however worthwhile that discussion might have been in another context).

That's internet forums for you....

Colin Wells - on 25 Sep 2012
> Much easier to have a drone-herder with you to deal with their care and feeding, I reckon.

Brilliant - drones sound so cute when you put it like that - exactly the kind of heart-warming spin UAV's need to make folk embrace them rather than fear them.

(Although I still fear them - especially the ones DARPA are almost certainly working on right now - you know, the ones that will come out at night and chew your face while you're asleep...)

http://gizmodo.com/5311824/darpa-stops-trying-not-to-be-terrifying-funds-chainsaw+wielding-flesh+eat...


a lakeland climber on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Colin Wells:

Have you seen the film Screamers?

ALC
Robert Durran - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to ChrisJD:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> That's internet forums for you....

Indeed.....

goli - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to pneame: Agreed!

Looks amazing.
abcdefg - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Wee Davie:

> The word 'drone' has so many sinister military connotations attached to it nowadays...

Now celebrated in song by the (ex-Leeds) musician Jon Langford - see http://www.bloodshotrecords.com/album/drone-operator-7-single

"Drone Operator celebrates our new low-risk stay-at home Warrior Class who rain down armageddon across the planet while never leaving the comfort of their office. Oh the Valor! The Glory! Makes me feel damned proud to be a coward!"
woolsack - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to ChrisJD)
> [...]
>
> Well obviously people are.
> Though even if I had made the connection on reading the OP, it certainly wouldn't have occurred to me to make a fuss about it; a shame that someone saw fit to try to divert a thread about a bit of film into a political one (however worthwhile that discussion might have been in another context).

Class! Like praising Hitler for his autobahns.

Whoops! I've done it, Godwins Law
Robert Durran - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to woolsack:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Class! Like praising Hitler for his autobahns.

Not at all.
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Robert Durran - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to abcdefg:
> (In reply to Wee Davie)
> "Drone Operator celebrates our new low-risk stay-at home Warrior Class who rain down armageddon across the planet while never leaving the comfort of their office. Oh the Valor! The Glory! Makes me feel damned proud to be a coward!"

So the sentiment of the song is that war can be glorious. That's a bit distateful. War is always nasty and at best a necessary evil. If it is considered a morally justified necessary evil to bomb something, then why risk the life of an aircrew to do so?

abcdefg - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

> So the sentiment of the song is that war can be glorious.

Er - no. You obviously didn't take the trouble to listen to it.
jkarran - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to ChrisJD:

> Drone was probably not the best term for the OP to use for footage in Pakistan. The video says helicopter....

Debatable but in this case there is the First Person View control perspective, it can be flown beyond line of sight via video feedback. Also those quad-copters are basically a flying computer/IMU platform, you fly the gyros, the software flys the 'helicopter, I'd say it was a reasonable use of the word.

jk
Robert Durran - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to abcdefg:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Er - no. You obviously didn't take the trouble to listen to it.

Indeed not. I just went by the quote you provided. Afraid I'm not now going to pay to listen to it either! I'll take your word for it.

abcdefg - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to jkarran:

> ... I'd say it was a reasonable use of the word.

This isn't an argument about engineering details; it's just that, as has already been pointed out, the term 'drone' is a (very) loaded one in that part of the world just now.

But I don't want to derail this thread any further: the footage referred to by the OP is great.
jkarran - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to abcdefg:

We're not in that part of the world and not all drones are unmanned warplanes.

jk
metal arms on 27 Sep 2012
Nice footage

In reply to all:

Can you please stop droning on.
Ander on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to abcdefg:
> (In reply to jkarran)
>
> [...]
>
> This isn't an argument about engineering details; it's just that, as has already been pointed out, the term 'drone' is a (very) loaded one in that part of the world just now.
>
> But I don't want to derail this thread any further: the footage referred to by the OP is great.


Except in Pakistan they don't call them drones, so it's not a partiularly loaded word at all.

tony on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to Ander:
> (In reply to abcdefg)
> [...]
>
>
> Except in Pakistan they don't call them drones, so it's not a partiularly loaded word at all.

Who is 'they'? Some of the Pakistan newspapers certainly use the word drones.
Damo on 27 Sep 2012
Mikkel - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to Damo:

really tempted to build one of those.
So far i have been using a 5 dollar video camera from Hong Kong on an electric powered glider, but getting the SLR airborne would be cool.
Damo on 27 Sep 2012


From the same trip, my friend took this hi-res pano of the upper Baltoro, near Concordia:
http://www.hdrlabs.com/gallery/gigapanos/gigapano.html?karakoram_a&CYLINDER

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