/ Mates who rack their gear stupidly

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robw007 - on 25 Sep 2012
You know the scene - you congratulate yourselves for not falling into the beginners trap of all eight of you carrying gear up to the crag - so you take the ropes and your mate takes the gear - smooth.

Until its your turn to lead and you remember he has the most illogical racking system ever devised on earth!

Then when you're in extremeis and deperately trying to rifle through the many karabiners with various bunches of two or three rocks racked in shades of pastel colours you realise youre on for a whipper!

I use two krabs with medium rocks two - five (two of each) and another with large rocks six to ten (two of each) - easy!
SFM - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

Or they've totally stitched you up...
Michael Gordon - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

Everybody's different! Your way I'm sure would seem odd to many.
Ander on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

I've got a mate with about 20 nuts in the 1-4 range, and 4 in the 5-10 range. Makes it interesting some times...
Ander on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
>
> I use two krabs with medium rocks two - five (two of each) and another with large rocks six to ten (two of each) - easy!


So I'd be stuffed if I went looking for a Rock 1 ?

Trangia - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon:
> (In reply to robw007)
>
> Everybody's different!

I agree. I may not follow any recognised pattern, but I always rack the same way and know where everything is.

It can present problems when leading through if you're using your mate's rack rather than your own. Normally one of us carries the rope(s) and the other the rack for the walk in.

a lakeland climber on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

Ever thought of:

1. checking what the rack contains before you leave the rest of the kit in the car.
2. Reracking the kit to suit yourself

??

ALC
Skip - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Agreed. Really don't understand the opening post,as you say just rerack.
robw007 - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

I would never be allowed to re-rack - Id never hear the end of it ......

But I can get my own back the following week when they use my gear ....
robw007 - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Ander:

No - that would be on the smalls .... along with the RPs and the superb Chouinards stoppers that I dont think they make any more.
Michael Gordon - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to robw007)
>
> 2. Reracking the kit to suit yourself
>

would be a bit of a pest if you had to do that every pitch?
Bobling - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Trangia:

I am so used to using other people's that my own now feels foreign to me! Where did all those nice shiny wall nuts go to?
Chi Cheng - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

If it was single pitch and I was about to jump on something at my limit I would re-rack.

On multi pitch I just suck it up as I'm never pushing my grade too much.

If I was to jump on to something above my limit, I would hike my own rack into the crag. I just like my rack and I know where everything is and what size is what colour.
a lakeland climber on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Chi Cheng:

Just *how* different is your rack to anyone else's? I doubt that you have anything too different from a double set of Rocks/Wallnuts; a set of cams #0.5 to #3; maybe a set of Hexes/Rockcentrics. Add in some slings and quickdraws and you have a rack.

Colour? Look at the crack, look at the kit and match - colour doesn't come in to it. What happens when your kit is old (but still serviceable) and you can't tell the colours?

ALC
Paul Hy - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to Trangia:
> (In reply to Michael Gordon)
> [...]
>
> I agree. I may not follow any recognised pattern, but I always rack the same way and know where everything is.
>
> It can present problems when leading through if you're using your mate's rack rather than your own. Normally one of us carries the rope(s) and the other the rack for the walk in.

yep, thats the i do it!
geckoboy on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
If I'm climbing with someone elses rack I just chuck it all on the harness in any random manner, quickdraws do tend towards the back though.
Would like to know why I'm always using an unfamiliar rack when I'm on a route at the top of my grade though?
jas wood - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007: doesn't matter what i,m given by partner on multi pitch Big gear right,small gear left draws on the back burners equal each side, slings and srewgates on the back or over't shodder.
Will always reorganise rack to my fit :O)
andyathome - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
Seems you are just talking about two/three bundles of wires that are not organised the way you organize yours?
That's no big deal surely? Reorganise. Or remember what you are carrying.
The other issues are where are your cams, where are your quickdraws?
lazzaw - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007: I put odd sized nuts on my left side and even sized ones on the right. My climbing partner complains, because he racks his gear according to colour and it takes him ages to put all the blue stuff together when we change over
robw007 - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to andyathome:

Your right of course - its no big deal - we were just having a laff about it at the weekend. Thought we'd put a post up and see what it would bring in.

We even joked about even sized rocks on one crab and odd on another!
Morgan Woods - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007: small medium and large wires each on oval biners. Why would you have it any other way? And bandoliers are the way to go if swapping leads.
henwardian - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007: Racking by colour or even and odd numbers. I assume the trolls have arrived.

I'd say I do what most other people here seem to; make sure I have my own rack when I'm trying something hard and just make do when I'm on a pitch I within my capabilities.

If you are on a hard lead, you already have a lot to think about:
- how pumped am I?
- where is the next gear?
- is this a sensible place to shake out?
- how long do I need to shake for the next section of the route?
- what would the consequences of a fall be from here?
- how much higher can I go without gear before things will be getting very dangerous?
- is the gear I have placed in solid rock?
- if I placed small gear, how big a fall can I afford to take on it?
- where does the line of the route go?
- is that hold in or is it part of the next route?
- are there any hidden holds/gear ahead?
Just rattled off the top of my head. Sure plenty of these things are calculated in a cemi-automatic way in the back of your mind but it's a mass of information to consider. I'd rather not add an extra "right, thats a fiddly hole to put gear in, it would be an RP4 on my rack, lets see, what does my mate have that's near that size" when I might be on a very marginal shakeout in a pumped condition above a fall with questionable consequences.
mkean - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
Everyone carrying their own rack to the crag is just good weight training, beginners forget to take a rope. :-)
Big Rik - on 25 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007: The reason behind racking odd and even numbers on separate krabs is that if you drop one you still have a good spread of sizes on the remaining krab. The old adage of not putting all your eggs in one basket!
The Ex-Engineer - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Big Rik:
> The reason behind racking odd and even numbers on separate krabs is that if you drop one you still have a good spread of sizes on the remaining krab.

We all understand the reasoning. The issue is that the reasoning is still complete bollocks.


Jonny2vests - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
> I use two krabs with medium rocks two - five (two of each) and another with large rocks six to ten (two of each) - easy!

You carry two nines and tens as standard?
wilkie14c - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
> (In reply to Big Rik)
> [...]
>
> We all understand the reasoning. The issue is that the reasoning is still complete bollocks.

agreed! The number of times I've dropped a crab and wires and found myself in the shit equals exactly zero! I've never been one for colour schemes either, the tip of my index finger is exactly the width of a rock 4 so I just take it from there. My partner and I tend to rack it all the same regardless of whos rack it is, its just developed like that over the years. I think thats the key if you have a regular partner, both need to adapt to each other to find the most efficient way of doing stuff. I'll jump on at my limit with his rack without a second thought. I'll re-rack stuff I'm not happy with if I'm climbing with someone new or at a meet etc but I'll explain my logic to them why I rack the way I do.
Si dH - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
We all rack things slightly differently but why you wouldnt rearrange it for your lead is beyond me!
mikekeswick - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to The Ex-Engineer: Agreed! I couldn't contemplate doing this??? Seems crazy to me.
There is no way i'd jump on something hard without re-racking differently sorted gear.
3 krabs for small/med/large wires, all on one side. Cams from 0.75 - 3.5 on t'other. Quicdraws next ,equally spread and then Screwgates/belay stuff at the back.
Simple!
AlanLittle - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Morgan Woods:
> (In reply to robw007) small medium and large wires each on oval biners. Why would you have it any other way?

In order not to have lost everything of a given size if one of us drops a single krab? Ths could be very not funny if it happened somewhere in the middle of a committing multi-pitch adventure.

I do normally rack by size, but make very sure that I have a spare set of wires somewhere else on the harness if I'm in a situation where dropping some would be Bad.

(Those sawn-in-half Rocks might be a good way of achieving this for the weight conscious)
willworkforfoodjnr - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to blanchie14c:
> (In reply to The Ex-Engineer)
> [...]
>
> agreed! The number of times I've dropped a crab and wires and found myself in the shit equals exactly zero!

I don't rack odds/evens - but I really did wish I had when I dropped my large wires into the sea from the first pitch of Wen!
Pagan - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to blanchie14c:

> agreed! The number of times I've dropped a crab and wires and found myself in the shit equals exactly zero!

A few weeks ago I dropped my crab of small to medium wires near the bottom of the finger crack on Cracked Actor. The next few minutes were most exciting.
JSA - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

I carry two full sets if wires, one each side. Never used or had the need to use micro's. Friends are to the rear of the wires on each side. Draws are at the back so easily reachable with either hand.

I've never dropped any gear.
robw007 - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

Actually come to think of it I only carry one ten.
robw007 - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to JSA:

Once so pumped on Boulevard that after trying to place the wrong sized cam I didnt have time to re rack it so simply threw it over my shoulder and quickly grabbed the correct size and placed it.

Luckliy my belayer was well coordinated and managed to catch it before it went in the pool!
mike kann - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007: But your way is totally illogical. Surely it's a much better idea to rack one type on one crab and your other type on another crab, like wallnuts on one, offsets or rocks on the other. That way if you are cack handed and drop a set you're not half way up a route with no nuts of the right size... plus you don't have to think about what size goes on what crab, all you do is sort out the different shapes. Plus you know when you grab a bunch, unless you've used the pertinent size which you will surely remember, the right nut will be on that krab, and you don't have an issue when you eye ball it as a number 6 but its actually a number 5....

<shakes head in disbelief and wanders off>
robw007 - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to mike kann:

Ah but you could be accussed of planning for failure - ie dropping gear.

Surely you have too many wires on each krab using your method and they tangle horribly forcing you to pump out and fall off?
Kemics - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

Whoa and I thought I was OCD. If it's a long serious route, i'll separate into two krabs so if I drop something (very rare!) it' not a serious problem but that's about it.

I have my bunches in:
- Small wires (<7)
- Big wires (>7)
- It's getting gnarly stuff (micros, super lights etc)

no fuss....though sometimes.....if i'm feeling really close to the limit, i'll rack in size order ;)
Michael Gordon - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

Like a good number of folk here I rack micro/small(1-4)/medium(5-7)/large(8-10).

I don't remember dropping any - certainly have never done so when it at all mattered. Let's face it, on your average multipitch lead you've often got a range of options gear-wise. In the extremely unlikely event of you dropping a krab the chances are you could probably carry on with the rest of your gear. After all, nowadays cams cover pretty much the full range of nuts (micros excepted) and hexes.
Michael Gordon - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to robw007) you know when you grab a bunch, unless you've used the pertinent size which you will surely remember
>

Really? So you're 30m up a long hard pitch. You can remember exactly which small-meduim nuts you placed earlier on which krab? Yeah right. Chances are you grab whichever you first lay your hands on, find 1,2,5,6,10 on one and a similarly confusing mix on the other and end up constantly switching between krabs looking for the right size!
Ann S on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

I keep hearing Eric Morcambe........all the correct gear; just not necessarily in the right order.
mike kann - on 26 Sep 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon: Erm. No. Not really. I have however managed to drop a whole bunch of nuts off a wiregate krab and could still continue safely because I had my other set. I can't say I've ever been close to falling off because I didn't have exactly the right nut to hand, whereas the other way round would have been frigging frightening...
jymbob - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:
Reracking only gets you so far. I _know_ by glancing what I've grabbed on my rack - from weight, colour, wear etc.

Climbed using a mate's rack once - his red was the wrong size, they were all funny shapes and he didn't have any purple ones!

What's a fella to do?
deanstonmassif on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

Try swapping racks with your climbing partner when they're Sagittarius and you're a Taurus. OMG! Took a few big lobs before I realised what was going on there.
David Ponting on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to mkean: And then on the next trip everyone carries a rope and no-one carries a rack...

Or you do what we've done and challenged someone as to how much he could lug to the crag (Froggatt, not exactly far) - I think he had 5 ropes and three racks, and the rest of us had almost nothing!

</end derailment>
David Ponting on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to Ander: It does get worse - try climbing with somewhat old club racks without checking them - a few years ago a friend found himself halfway up, pushing his grade - cue "I've got 5 nuts left, and they're all bl***y 4s!" drifting across the moors!
robw007 - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to deanstonmassif:

Superb!

My mate was threatening to rack all rocks of prime numbers on one krab and perfect numbers on the other .......
geckoboy on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
I really don't think it matters too much how I rack up at the start of a route in terms of where gear is on the harness. Because I never seem to put stuff back where I got it from and frequently end up a climb with everything on one side of the harness and nothing on the other.
Chris.Allott - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
I only ever said once.."I'll take the ropes - you bring the gear"...to meet at the crag...
selection of...2 MOAC originals..and a (single) half MOAC...3 Clog "Cogs" (which I actually like) and 2 Peck "Crackers"..all on what looked like washing line...about 5 STEEL carabiners..and a couple of alloy things that looked like they had been on the Ark...and a variety of lengths of frayed tat... OH! how Eric laughed!
...Until the rope became slack on his second...due to problems with my waist belay!"
Grimpeur - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:
> You know the scene - you congratulate yourselves for not falling into the beginners trap of all eight of you carrying gear up to the crag - so you take the ropes and your mate takes the gear - smooth.

Errr.... you have fallen into the beginners trap. Always take your own rack!

The grimpeur
JimboWizbo - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007: My friend puts all his protection on the back gear loops, quickdraws and long slings (overhand knotted on a done up screwgate) on the front loops. Then wonders why he has a hard time finding the right nut when feeling around behind his back for the set of nuts he has on one single snapgate.
robw007 - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to JimboWizbo:

A mate of a mate used to do something similar and then compound the problem by wearing a polar top unzipped and hanging loose when the weather was a bit cool.

Hence he would struggle to get the gear off the harness then clip it back onto the bottom of the jacket whilst trying to swap it out with another piece! I swear he used to keep a friend or two in his pockets!

Terrifying to belay and watch him. He could onsight 7b at the wall of course - but on the trad lead ........
andyathome - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to JimboWizbo:
Cor. There really are some pillocks out there.....
andyathome - on 27 Sep 2012
In reply to andyathome:
PS - I should just say that when it comes to climbing we are ALL pillocks in a variety of ways :-)
TryfAndy on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to robw007:

Everything has to go in the same place, every time. Nuts split into 1-5 & 5-10 on krabs, with cams on front gear loops. Draws on both sides at the back, with belay/rigging stuff at the back left. Slings over my shoulders, halved with a krab holding them together. Know where everything is then!
mikeyratty on 01 Oct 2012
In reply to robw007: What really annoys me, Rob, is people who carry more than one cam on a crab. It's just asking for trouble. By the the way, does no-one keep a crab full of prime number wires?
Robert Durran - on 01 Oct 2012
In reply to mikeyratty:
> (In reply to robw007) What really annoys me, Rob, is people who carry more than one cam on a crab.

Yes, that is the number one crime against rational racking. If someone insists on it, one simply has to carry some extra krabs to rack them properly for one's pitches.
Rockhopper85 - on 01 Oct 2012
In reply to robw007: I change my rack set up slightly depending on what lies ahead, sometimes on every pitch.
paolothealpinist on 02 Oct 2012 - modemcable104.216-80-70.mc.videotron.ca
I must be old because all my nuts are silver not colour coded and also only go up to size 10! simply a set of nuts can be split by half 1-5 6-10 or if your a new climber or a bit dim rainbow 1 and rainbow 2.
For goodness sake grow a pair and just rearrange the rack to suit your desire at each hand over and stop the moaning... oh you don't rack like me... I don't like the way you rack... you should not be doing it like that... or he won't let me rack the way I like!!!!! SERIOUSLY go have word with yourself and your climbing partner. or Just bring your own gear and get some extra training in carrying that super heavy gear! I am going to go have a cry about the state of the climbing fraternity now or may be I'll just have a pint like a normal climber.
Rockhopper85 - on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to paolothealpinist: I agree with you :) and guys Why not have the second place stripped gear on a sling, then clip that sling to the anchor... Making the re racking easier and the change over much more efficient. The next second can sort the rope and get the leader on belay at the same time as the leader is re racking (to suit themselves),
ads.ukclimbing.com
Fredt on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to robw007:

I put all my gear on a sling round my shoulder. Just like we did before harnesses were invented.
Robert Durran - on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to paolothealpinist:
> > For goodness sake grow a pair and just rearrange the rack to suit your desire at each hand over and stop the moaning... oh you don't rack like me... I don't like the way you rack... you should not be doing it like that... or he won't let me rack the way I like!!!!! SERIOUSLY go have word with yourself and your climbing partner. I am going to go have a cry about the state of the climbing fraternity now.

Sense of humour failure here I think......
Of course, racking the same way does make change overs more efficient.

Robert Durran - on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to Fredt:
> (In reply to robw007)
>
> I put all my gear on a sling round my shoulder. Just like we did before harnesses were invented.

Still in the dark ages then (like Americans).

Robert Durran - on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to Rockhopper85:
> (In reply to paolothealpinist) Why not have the second place stripped gear on a sling, then clip that sling to the anchor... Making the re racking easier and the change over much more efficient.

Why? Efficiency can be better improved by re-racking the gear on your harness as you strip it.
Fredt on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Fredt)
> [...]
>
> Still in the dark ages then (like Americans).

We find the sling on the shoulder most efficient in the Alps, especially when moving together, and facilitates quick changeovers. Gear on harnesses is ridiculous and impossible when juggling with winter clothing and rucksacks.
The sling on the shoulder essential in Yosemite, using two slings, again for fast changeovers, and fast access, and there's no way that you can get all the gear on a harness, just use that for haul ropes, and emergency stuff. Worked well and even better when when Black Diamond brought out the double stiffened double shoulder holster.
And on my local crag Stanage, on any climb you need no more than a couple of quickdraws and about half a dozen pieces of pro, easily seen and found on a shoulder sling. Sounds like some people on here take the same gear up every climb!
Robert Durran - on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to Fredt:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> We find the sling on the shoulder most efficient in the Alps, especially when moving together, and facilitates quick changeovers.

I was being a bit tongue in cheek, but personally I simply cannot stand a bandolier/sling with everything swinging around in front of me, clattering against the rock and obscuring my feet!

> Gear on harnesses is ridiculous and impossible when juggling with winter clothing and rucksacks.

Why?

> Worked well and even better when when Black Diamond brought out the double stiffened double shoulder holster.

Yes, exactly what I use in winter (as well as my harness). Brilliant piece of kit.
mikeyratty on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to robw007: Does no one have any crossover of wires on crabs ie 1 to 5 and 4 to 10. Often saves having to fiddle for the other crab of wires if you slightly mis-judged the size of crack. Or is that just my poor judgement?
Mitch V8S on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to robw007:
My wife. You can't tell them, it would just start a domestic at the crag.
Jim Lancs - on 02 Oct 2012
I overlap.
robw007 - on 02 Oct 2012
In reply to mikeyratty:

Ah ha - the entrance of the Rat - the most eclectic racker of gear north of the Broomgrove Wall!

I must state my good friend that racking aliens and very very small friends on one crab is eminently sensible, saves space and works just like wires.

Has always worked for me and has the positive spin off of often enabling me to hang on to your blue alien longer than just a day trip to the crag!

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