/ Bolting - Hints and Tips

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Rampikino - on 28 Sep 2012
Hullo gang,

I have my eye on a potential route in the Llangollen area and am keen to bolt it up.

So - basics - the crag is already bolted and has no bolting issues that I am aware of, and it's quarried limestone - very much in the mode of Trevor.

I have bolted a few routes in the past, but not on limestone. I was pondering either 10mm expansion or some glue-ins. Naturally I want to go and have a look and see what has been used there before, but I was wondering if anyone had some hints/tips or user-friendly guides on approaching bolting and avoiding pitfalls.

Thoughts?
metal arms on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:

Maybe getting in touch with the North Wales Bolt Fund would be a start?

Some info and contacts on this page
http://northwaleslimestone.wetpaint.com/
scott titt - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:
All you need to know here http://www.bolt-products.com/index.htm
I recommend glue-ins on limestone
Rampikino - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to scott titt:

Thanks.

My own thought was trending towards glue-ins. I have done some before on a different rock type. I guess the ampules are a nifty and convenient way to do it.
shark - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:

Stainless steel through bolts mean you can test (and climb on) them straight away whereas with glue you have to wait for the glue to go off before testing the bolts. Also its messy stuff that's not good for your tips.

Through ins are more foolproof IMO and so better suited to the inexperienced.

I think leave glue-ins to the pros (and even they can get it wrong)
Rampikino - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to shark:

Is there a particular brand and size that is more common over here?
Enty - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:
> (In reply to scott titt)
>
> Thanks.
>
> I guess the ampules are a nifty and convenient way to do it.

They are rubbish mate! Avoid.

E
shark - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino: > (In reply to shark)
>
> Is there a particular brand and size that is more common over here?


Petzl 12mm is common and is what I last used
Rampikino - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to shark:

12mm not 10mm?

I have seen 10mm through bolts that are 85mm long. Are the 12mm generally longer or just a greater diameter?
shark - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:

Dunno
Rampikino - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to shark:

Do you have a particular retailer you go through?
Ally Smith on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:

Try
http://www.bolt-products.com/
or
http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/through-bolts-c520

Make sure you don't mix your metallurgy up and buy stainless hangers and galvanized bolts or vice versa.

85mm doesn't seem overly long for either diameter, but remember if you use expansion bolts to drill the hole longer than needed so you (or someone else that replaces them in 25years time) can bash them in to the rock to hide them away.

12mm Petzl or Fixe hangers are more common than 10mm, but I'd go along with the other advice and learn to do a proper job with some glue-ins.
Rampikino - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to ally smith:

Thank you very much!
Enty - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to scott titt:

What are your feelings on 12mm over 10mm through bolts?
12mm is specified over here but the bloody large nuts wreck your krabs - I've had two damaged this year.

E
jimtitt - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Enty:
10mm is pretty much the standard size, you only need (or want) to go to 12mm if the rock is soft sandstone. 80mm long is the standard length as well again longer if the rock is soft.
The ampoules are trickier to get right compared with the cartridges, they have their place for mountain routes but not what I´d be using for bolting a sport route.
Unless you´re using an odd glue (technically it´s a mortar) or its very cold you can climb on the routes almost straight away, normally by the time you´ve got back down from glueing, cleaned up and changed your shoes it will be hard.
scott titt - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:
Of course it would be really good if the BMC ran a bolting workshop. Oh but they do! http://www.thebmc.co.uk/peak-bolting-workshop
jasper11 - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino: hi all
Any idea if the through bots on the Lawson web site are any good ? Theyook a good price, any ideas ?
jimtitt - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to jasper11:
The bolts linked to are plated steel, if you use them you´ll probably get some late-night visits from the local activists telling you to take your rubbish out! Bolting with plated steel nowadays is completely irresponsible and in most areas isn´t tolerated and rightly so.
jasper11 - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino: thanks Jim, that's just what I thought, but I wanted an expert to advise. I fully agree only use good quality bolts.

Thanks again
JSA - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to jasper11:

Get yourself to a good reputable nut/bolt supplier, you won't need to buy a pack of say 50, you'll be able to buy individual bolts. I've re-bolted a few routes with stainless bolts from my local supplier (the old bolts were 8mm mild steel). For the few pence extra I used 100mm bolts.

I buy here..
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?source=search_app#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=danlett+fasteners+hu...
They may post some out to you if you give them a call.
Rick Graham on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to JSA:

I agree with all the comments on using approved gear, ideally glue ins, which are easier to replace in a few years time.

On a new route I am always surprised why the self tapping "thunder bolts" are not used. These can be bought very cheaply and reused or resited on other projects. They are obviously not permanent but take away the agony of choosing the perfect position for a bolt first time. Clean and sort out the route then rebolt with quality gear, the original holes can often be redrilled to suit the glue ins.
jimtitt - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rick Graham:

Try to fit a Thunder Bolt on the cliff and you´ll find out! They are hammered in using a special tool in the end of a ####-off great drill attatched through a cable to a nuclear power station!
The DAV tested them (as have the Australians) and the practicalities of installation became apparent, they also aren´t hard enough for most rock types and the threads shear off.
And no one has obtained certification for them as rock anchors for climbing so you are on dubious legal ground anyway.
Rick Graham on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to jimtitt:
Shot that idea down then.
I have only used them on rock at Hodge Close (slate) as a temporary anchor.
Screwed in easily with a short spanner.
I will have to try some on limestone.
Joss - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino:
Hi Matt.
Important you read this first- the Whole Eglwyseg escarpment has recently been designated SSSI Status and European Site of Conservation. There is now an agreement as stated on the BMC Regional Access Database that no further new routing/drilling take place.
This includes all the quarries; Trevor, Independence etc

From the website:
Due to the site's designation as both an SSSI and an Eurpoean Special Area of Conservation the landowner has been informed by the Countryside Council for Wales that he does not have consent to allow vegetation clearance, rock clearing or drilling on these rockfaces. Therefore until the situation is resolved please refrain form further new routing in this area.

ray - on 28 Sep 2012
In reply to Rampikino: From the bmc Rad
"
The whole Eglwyseg escarpment is both a Site Of Special Scientific Interest and an European designated Special Area Of Conservation. This means that any deliberate or reckless damage or disturbance to the features of the site (inc. to nesting birds, vegetation clearance or drilling) could be regarded as a criminal act."
Rampikino - on 01 Oct 2012
In reply to Rampikino:

Thanks for the info about the whole escarpment. It is noted and I won't be bolting there.

Thanks also for the info.

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