/ Overhyped Rock Climbing Areas

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Robert Durran - on 08 Oct 2012
Famous rock climbing destinations that didn't quite live up to expectations (and why).
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Before someone says the Peak,

Pembroke.

It's limestone.

[Runs and hides]
In reply to Robert Durran: Arapiles. Too bloody hot and snakes that can kill you on the way down. (actually despite all that it was great - but it was bloody hot!)
Cheese Monkey - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Thailand - Railay - A polished nightmare under 6b. The setting was incredible though
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Llanberis Pass. Always sopping and surprisingly inconvenient.

In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Llanberis Pass. Always sopping and surprisingly inconvenient.

I've never had problems with damp, but I do agree the routes can be a bit overhyped. I guess its just the love of the old favourites sort of thing - stuff that is a common touchstone for so many UK climbers. But, for example, I thought Main Wall of Cyrn Las wasn't very special.

Pagan - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

The Peak - some nice climbing, utterly ruined by being rammed to the gills with top roping imbeciles, vacuous grade obsessed egos and braying tossers who work in banking dogging the hell out of classic routes.

Bosigran - if ever a crag had been ruined by a steadfast refusal from guidebook writers to grade it in accordance with everywhere else in the world, then this is it. Maybe it's just me, but I like to know roughly how terrified I'm likely to be before I get on a route, sadly this will never happen at this crag because the grades were assigned using a random number generator.
jonnie3430 - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Lliwedd, because it's a dirty choss pile. Craigmore, because it is nowhere near as good as the number of 3 star routes suggests it is...
bouldery bits - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>

> Bosigran - if ever a crag had been ruined by a steadfast refusal from guidebook writers to grade it in accordance with everywhere else in the world, then this is it. Maybe it's just me, but I like to know roughly how terrified I'm likely to be before I get on a route, sadly this will never happen at this crag because the grades were assigned using a random number generator.


They actually used the machine from Numberwang.
Iain Peters - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> Bosigran - if ever a crag had been ruined by a steadfast refusal from guidebook writers to grade it in accordance with everywhere else in the world, then this is it. Maybe it's just me, but I like to know roughly how terrified I'm likely to be before I get on a route, sadly this will never happen at this crag because the grades were assigned using a random number generator.

Examples?!
mike kann - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: more specific than the peak, Stanage. No where could ever live up to the amount of banging on about it people do. There are some decent routes but just not that good...
Skip - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:

I find Bosigran fine. Generally seem to get what i expect.
jon on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> The Peak - some nice climbing, utterly ruined by being rammed to the gills with top roping imbeciles, vacuous grade obsessed egos and braying tossers who work in banking dogging the hell out of classic routes.
>
> Bosigran - if ever a crag had been ruined by a steadfast refusal from guidebook writers to grade it in accordance with everywhere else in the world, then this is it. Maybe it's just me, but I like to know roughly how terrified I'm likely to be before I get on a route, sadly this will never happen at this crag because the grades were assigned using a random number generator.

Magnificent! You've obviously been saving that up for this very moment!
Steph-in-the-West on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> >
> Bosigran - if ever a crag had been ruined by a steadfast refusal from guidebook writers to grade it in accordance with everywhere else in the world, then this is it. Maybe it's just me, but I like to know roughly how terrified I'm likely to be before I get on a route, sadly this will never happen at this crag because the grades were assigned using a random number generator.

I wouldn't say Bosigran is "over-hyped," (but would agree about the grading on some routes). It's a stunning location, and warm on a sunny winter day. The multi pitch climbs are VERY committing and mostly unescapable between pitches. Single pitch lower grades eg Big Top, Kate are quite stiff for the grade but do-able. Black Slab and Ochre Slab are definitely worth the trek to the far seaward end!!! The classic starred routes eg Door Post, Little Brown Jug are fantastic! Don't write it off as you're missing a real treat. Just ask somebody who has climbed there a lot, about the different routes.
From someone who lives 15 min drive from Bosi!!!!
Howardw1968 - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
>
>
> Anywhere Pagan climbs cause although there is some nice climbing, utterly ruined by pagan being there, as opposed to - rammed to the gills with us top roping enjoying climbing, vacuous grade obsessed egos and
braying tossers who work in banking (you can have that bit about bankers they can stick up for themselves) the hell out of there grades on classic routes.
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:
> The multi pitch climbs are VERY committing and mostly unescapable between pitches.

The crag is only 50m high!


Chris
John2 - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

'Pembroke'

'Llanberis Pass. Always sopping and surprisingly inconvenient'

Where the f*ck do you enjoy climbing?
a lakeland climber on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Almscliff - basically full of Yorkshiremen who can't see beyond the steam rising from the cow dung!

ALC
wilkie14c - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
Tha Matterhorn. The hut stinks, water costs more than wiskey and the mountain is just like 3 Tryfans stacked on top of each other and just as loose.
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to John2:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> 'Pembroke'
>
> 'Llanberis Pass. Always sopping and surprisingly inconvenient'
>
> Where the f*ck do you enjoy climbing?

Gogarth, The Lakes, The Peak, West Penwith, Culm (OK, just Sharpnose), Arran, NW Highlands...

I've even enjoyed the odd route in Yorkshire (which is good 'cause I live there now).
Steph-in-the-West on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Steph-in-the-West)
> [...]
>
> The crag is only 50m high!

Height or lack thereof doesn't make a crag any easier or less committing! Surely any climb of more than one pitch is multi-pitch? I said some of them are unescapable "between pitches" by which I meant you can't walk off them to a safe descent route which is true. You could escape by abbing off and leaving gear.


Dom Whillans on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to blanchie14c:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Tha Matterhorn. The hut stinks, water costs more than wiskey and the mountain is just like 3 Tryfans stacked on top of each other and just as loose.

having successfully summited tryfan 3 times in one day several years ago (and enjoyed every minute of it), i can only assume my training for the 'horn is complete. i am off to book a flight to that there zurich...
Skip - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:
> (In reply to Chris Craggs)
> [...]
>
> Height or lack thereof doesn't make a crag any easier or less committing! Surely any climb of more than one pitch is multi-pitch? I said some of them are unescapable "between pitches" by which I meant you can't walk off them to a safe descent route which is true. You could escape by abbing off and leaving gear.

Also being relatively local to Bosigran, and a regular there, i agree.
MikeTS - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to TobyA:
Toby, how could you!
Araps is gorgeous. Great rock, warm (you should organise the day by the shade), never crowded, and everyone's really friendly.
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) more specific than the peak, Stanage. No where could ever live up to the amount of banging on about it people do. There are some decent routes but just not that good...

Thing about Stanage is that if you like pulling on holds and placing gear (not unreasonable), there aren't loads of amazing routes. But if you like highballing, bouldering and soloing, it's the most incredible playground with a lifetime's worth of joyful pottering and short, sharp buzzes. For me, the Stanage End to Plantation highball circuit in perfect conditions and hardly anyone about is just one of the best days out climbing imaginable. And soloing all the classic HVSs along the popular end on a spring evening is just as good.

But leading some classic routes on August Bank Holiday in the crowds, sweat and midges is about as fun as going to the Climbing Works at 7pm on a winter weeknight.
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:

Well you can't normally walk off between the pitches on multi-pitch routes 95% of the time. I would suggest if you can get down to the ground in one abseil the route isn't really 'committing' is it?


Chris
wilkie14c - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Dom Whillans:
> (In reply to blanchie14c)
> [...]
>
> having successfully summited tryfan 3 times in one day several years ago (and enjoyed every minute of it), i can only assume my training for the 'horn is complete. i am off to book a flight to that there zurich...

I honestly would rather have a week in skye or similar than go back. Maybe I had a bad trip or just didn't 'get it' but I never got into the atmos of the alps. Too many people for me but its not like I didn't know what I was letting myself into
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Steph-in-the-West)
>
> Well you can't normally walk off between the pitches on multi-pitch routes 95% of the time. I would suggest if you can get down to the ground in one abseil the route isn't really 'committing' is it?
>

Depends what is meant by 'the ground'. I think the Great Zawn at Bosi is pretty committing! (I know what you mean though).
mike kann - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart: Nah. It's cack. To me it represents where people go when they haven't got a proper crag to go to. In my mind any crag where the biggest and most real danger comes from falling off and hitting the deck from pretty much anywhere on the route is a crag not worth bothering with...
Steph-in-the-West on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Steph-in-the-West)
>
> Well you can't normally walk off between the pitches on multi-pitch routes 95% of the time. I would suggest if you can get down to the ground in one abseil the route isn't really 'committing' is it?

Hell's bells Chris! Wish you'd sort out what you mean! You've just shot yourself in the foot because you have just agreed with my first post about multi pitch climbs being committing... have you climbed at Bosi????????

ads.ukclimbing.com
Bruce Hooker - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Skip:
> (In reply to Pagan)
>
> I find Bosigran fine. Generally seem to get what i expect.

Me too, one of my favourites, although I haven't been there for a long time. One of the best in the West of England. On a bright day with a bit of wind to send the waves breaking in it can seem higher than 50m... in fact it probably is from top to sea level.

As for overhyped, it has to be gritstone surely? Some would say Harrisons but as this in rarely hyped it doesn't apply.

Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to mike kann:

The trick is not falling off. Once you've sussed that out, you'll love it.
jon on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Come on Jon, Stanage routes are a bit samey - approach crag, reach over the top, mantle. Done one, done them all.
Skip - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Bruce Hooker:
> (In reply to Skip)
> [...]
>
On a bright day with a bit of wind to send the waves breaking in it can seem higher than 50m... in fact it probably is from top to sea level.
>
>
Definitely is. Just checked my log book, and the CC guide, there are climbs of over 60m at Bosigran.
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:
>
>
> Hell's bells Chris! Wish you'd sort out what you mean! You've just shot yourself in the foot because you have just agreed with my first post about multi pitch climbs being committing... have you climbed at Bosi????????

Not much, LBJ, Bow Wall, Ghost, Kafoozalem, Thin/Thick Wall, Phantom, Dream/Liberator, Liberator/Dream, Desolation Row, Deja Vu, and a heap of others. And you?


Chris
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to jon: Haha. Next time I'm looking up at some soulless sheet of limestone peppered with regular lines of bolts in vertical lines, thinking "which route shall I do now - I honestly don't care" I'll think of that.
jon on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

Excellent, like it!
EddieC on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Garbh Bheinn of Ardgour. The setting is utterly superb and so is the rock architecture, but it doesn't climb as well as it looks. I'm sure I've read it described somewhere as having "the best rock in the world" but I found it a lot less pleasant to climb on than the impeccable NW gneiss (of, say, Diabaig), with a slightly hollow feel to it. The so-called faster approach from the south should also come with a health warning as it's a purgatorial slog and very difficult to tell which part of the ridge you're meant to be aiming for.

All this is not to say it's a bad place, just that expectations were sky high and they weren't quite fulfilled.

I've only been on the main cliff at Bosigran up to E1 but it seemed to be pretty friendly and a joy to climb on.
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Almscliff - basically full of Yorkshiremen who can't see beyond the steam rising from the cow dung!

I know. A grit crag where most of the classic routes go sideways? Something isn't right.
andyathome - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
Any area that is seen as central to a local tourism initiative may well find that crags/routes are over hyped and, potentially, undergraded.

I exempt Mallorca from that - their gradings are still bloody tough.
Iain Peters - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:

There are 11 multi-pitch climbs from Doorpost through to Andrew where a simple scramble rightwards along the mid-height ledge gets you off the crag. Only the central section requires an abseil escape, and even then you can pick 'n mix the finishing pitches (apart from Ghost and Phantom etc.). I would say it's one of the less serious crags in West Cornwall. Escaping from Chair Ladder if failure coincides with high tide or a big sea can be extremely tricky.
Steph-in-the-West on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> (In reply to Steph-in-the-West)
> [...]
>
And you?

One or two:-
Simla, Shallow Chimney, Ochre Slab route 2, Black slab, Red Slab, Gollywog's Cakewalk, Ding, Dong, Sunny Corner, Fallout, Sinistra, ZigZag, Autumn Flakes (hated it!), Nameless, Doorpost(loved it!!),LBJ (loved that too!), Doorway, Venusberg, Clob, Ledge Climb, Andrew,Como Crack, Mark, Big Top, Flat Top, Simple Simon, Crazy Man Michael(very Crazy!), Pauline, Sampan, Picnic, Oread and its Bypass, In-Between, Alison Rib (!), Fafnir, Fasolt and of course Bosigran Ridge!!!!!

andyathome - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:
> (In reply to Chris Craggs)
> [...]
> And you?
>
> One or two:-
> Simla, Shallow Chimney, Ochre Slab route 2, Black slab, Red Slab, Gollywog's Cakewalk, Ding, Dong, Sunny Corner, Fallout, Sinistra, ZigZag, Autumn Flakes (hated it!), Nameless, Doorpost(loved it!!),LBJ (loved that too!), Doorway, Venusberg, Clob, Ledge Climb, Andrew,Como Crack, Mark, Big Top, Flat Top, Simple Simon, Crazy Man Michael(very Crazy!), Pauline, Sampan, Picnic, Oread and its Bypass, In-Between, Alison Rib (!), Fafnir, Fasolt and of course Bosigran Ridge!!!!!

But what have you done on Grit......
Steph-in-the-West on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Iain Peters:
> (In reply to Steph-in-the-West)
>
> There are 11 multi-pitch climbs from Doorpost through to Andrew where a simple scramble rightwards along the mid-height ledge gets you off the crag.

11 out of about 100 in total!!!! And to quote the CC guide, "Quality climbing on clean, honest granite..."
Steph-in-the-West on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to andyathome:
> (In reply to Steph-in-the-West)
> [...]
>
> But what have you done on Grit......

Sadly never yet had the opportunity... have climbed East Sussex sandstone - yuk!!!

mike kann - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to jon) Haha. Next time I'm looking up at some soulless sheet of limestone peppered with regular lines of bolts in vertical lines, thinking "which route shall I do now - I honestly don't care" I'll think of that.

The thread is about overhype. Stanage is patently overhyped. It's short and samey and often crowded. Yes there are some decent routes but if you stacked all the decent routes up into a decent crag size you'd still only have a pretty average crag compared to how good people tell you it is. It's not relevant that you can have a great day there, the point is that people say the sun shines out of its arse, when clearly it is just an extremely accessible crag with lots of routes that people who are noobs can get on without crapping themselves too much.
Ian Jones on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to EddieC:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Garbh Bheinn of Ardgour. The setting is utterly superb and so is the rock architecture, but it doesn't climb as well as it looks. I'm sure I've read it described somewhere as having "the best rock in the world" but I found it a lot less pleasant to climb on than the impeccable NW gneiss (of, say, Diabaig), with a slightly hollow feel to it. The so-called faster approach from the south should also come with a health warning as it's a purgatorial slog and very difficult to tell which part of the ridge you're meant to be aiming for.
>

Agree totally. Massively disapointing. Unrecognisable as Gniess.
> All this is not to say it's a bad place, just that expectations were sky high and they weren't quite fulfilled.
>
> I've only been on the main cliff at Bosigran up to E1 but it seemed to be pretty friendly and a joy to climb on.

Goucho on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Lawrencefield (could be stretching the 'famous' bit) - complete heap of choss.

Lliwedd - complete heap of wet choss.

Red Wall (South Stack) - complete heap of brittle crumbling choss.

The Diamond (Lundy) - Complete heap of lichen covered choss.



Ian Jones on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to mike kann:

Agree with your views re. Stanage.
Surprised nobody has mentioned Froggatt. Shiny, quarried and fairly unattractive.
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [...]
>
> when clearly it is just an extremely accessible crag with lots of routes that people who are noobs can get on without crapping themselves too much.

It's overhyped as a crag to travel to for weekend's leading in summer. It's a magical playground for those who understand grit.

I don't get limestone (but I do like Mother Carey's). Different strokes, eh?

mrchewy - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: "Grit - a great piece of marketing".

I agree with that I think.

mike kann - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart: I get gritstone, I just don't get Stanage. And what's different strokes got to do with it ? Whatchu talkin about Willis?
Dr Toph on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Its rare that i feel the need to reply to this kind of kind of troll-fishing topic, but it has been on my mind recenty since a visit to the Roaches.

So many vaunted 'classics'. It even looks great from the main road. But rarely have I been so uninspired to climb. And I LIKE slopers. Couldnt help thinking, if this was in the NW highlands, Valkyrie would get one star at most.

Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to mrchewy:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) "Grit - a great piece of marketing".
>
> I agree with that I think.

You're all philistines.

Some of the best routes I've ever done have been on crisp autumn days with only me, my boots, my chalkbag and a bar towel. You'll never appreciate it and that means there'll be less people on the crag. God bless.
Robert Durran - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Joshus Tree - A bit like a climbing theme park. I loved City of Rocks in Idaho and was expecting something at least as good, but found it much less beguiling. A long way to go for some little rocks (Americans going to the Peak probably have similar feelings).

Lundy - Good climbing, but a bit scruffy and unappealing as islands go; not really worth the trip from Scotland.

Gogarth - Very good in some respects, but so massively hyped by so many that it could hardly fail to fall short.

The Costa Blanca - Probably so hyped because it is pretty much the original euro sun bolt clippiong destination; much more appealing areas all over the place in my experience.
Sean Kelly - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
> Bosigran - if ever a crag had been ruined by a steadfast refusal from guidebook writers to grade it in accordance with everywhere else in the world, then this is it. Maybe it's just me, but I like to know roughly how terrified I'm likely to be before I get on a route, sadly this will never happen at this crag because the grades were assigned using a random number generator.

How can you say this about the best crag in the SW?
In reply to MikeTS: I'd love to spend more time there, although its not really my style of climbing. Would have liked to have had my gear as well instead of my mate's shit rack and single rope! Muldoon wouldn't have seemed as scary with double ropes or at least some long extenders and only 10 nuts. :)

I stand by the scary snakes bits though!
victim of mathematics - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Sean Kelly:
> (In reply to Pagan)
> [...]
>
> How can you say this about the best crag in the SW?

If you actually read what he wrote, you'll find that he didn't criticise the climbing, just the arbitrary grading.
victim of mathematics - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Sean Kelly:

Oh, and it isn't even the best crag in West Penwith! Chair Ladder is much more fun.
victim of mathematics - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Joshus Tree - A bit like a climbing theme park. I loved City of Rocks in Idaho and was expecting something at least as good, but found it much less beguiling. A long way to go for some little rocks (Americans going to the Peak probably have similar feelings).

Yes

>
> Lundy - Good climbing, but a bit scruffy and unappealing as islands go; not really worth the trip from Scotland.

No, no, no.

>
> Gogarth - Very good in some respects, but so massively hyped by so many that it could hardly fail to fall short.

Hmm, not sure what more you could want really, except the slog back to the bags from the top of Main Cliff to be a bit less tedious.

>
> The Costa Blanca - Probably so hyped because it is pretty much the original euro sun bolt clippiong destination; much more appealing areas all over the place in my experience.

Ah, well your mistake here was expecting generic euro-limestone to be any good at all, sunshine or no sunshine.

victim of mathematics - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> You're all philistines.

That's rich coming from somebody who doesn't like Pembroke or the Pass!
Iain Peters - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:

Of which how many are single pitch, or with easy escapes? All the routes at the seaward end, every route from Big Top rightwards and Armchair to Patience are all basically single pitch, barring Beaker Route, so count those out. To me The Great Zawn and Bosigran Ridge are separate crags, the former undeniably serious, the latter truly multi-pitch but with a walk off every few metres after the first pitch. I don't dispute the quality of the climbing, nor do I think the place is over-hyped or under-graded.
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Gogarth - Very good in some respects, but so massively hyped by so many that it could hardly fail to fall short.

Words fail me. Yesterday I did The Assassin, and I'm still buzzing from the experience. Immaculate wall climbing, on wonderful solid rock (I'm looking at you, Pembroke), stupendous exposure, and in beautiful surroundings with just the razorbills and sea broccoli for company as you set off on a lonely, soul-searching lead. The overall experience with the long approach traverse into what feels to me like a remote and serious environment in the thick of nature is simply as good as UK trad gets.

I can accept that the NW highlands may have the edge, with the isolation, perfect rock and staggeringly beautiful scenery (and Pabbay looks even better than that), but it's bloody miles away. Every visit to Gogarth I do a route which is one of the best I've done in my life.

jonnie3430 - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to mrchewy)
> [...]
>
> You're all philistines.
>
> Some of the best routes I've ever done have been on crisp autumn days with only me, my boots, my chalkbag and a bar towel.

If you leave the bar towel at the Kingshouse, a similar approach to Buachaille Etive Mor will blow your mind.
Robert Durran - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> Hmm, not sure what more you could want really, except the slog back to the bags from the top of Main Cliff to be a bit less tedious....

......not mention the top half of most routes on the Main Cliff.

Generally I have just never found the climbing all that good move for move.
And the area has more the feeling of a country park than an inspiringly
wild coastline.

Don't get me wrong; Gogarth is good but just not quite THAT good.
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:

I'd like the Pass if it wasn't always sopping wet and busy.

As for Pembroke, I do quite a lot of it. It's just that some of it feels like climbing in a freshly worked quarry. And most of the routes are forgettable.
Tyler - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I agree that Peak grit and Gogarth are over hyped for what they are. Lundy's not worth the bother either. I'm hoping Pabbay and Mingulay are over hyped and then I needn't feel like I've missed out.

I was disappointed with Sardinia, it looks so good in the guide and Geyikbayiri wasn't quite the next great euro destination I'd hoped for.

Red Rocks sport climbing wasn't that great but you don't hear much about it these days anyway.
Robert Durran - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> As for Pembroke, I do quite a lot of it. It's just that some of it feels like climbing in a freshly worked quarry. And most of the routes are forgettable.

The limestone in Pembroke is generally so fine that it is almost possible to forget you are climbing on limestone. If anything it is proof that limestone climbing isn't always like climbing in a grotty quarry.

Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [...]
>
> The limestone in Pembroke is generally so fine that it is almost possible to forget you are climbing on limestone. If anything it is proof that limestone climbing isn't always like climbing in a grotty quarry.

Is that really what you think about St. Govans? It's dreadful.

I really like the Keelhaul wall, and much of Mother Carey's is fantastic. I've only done a couple of routes in the Leap, they were slimey and caked in chalk. Spectacular place, but disgusting rock.
lost1977 - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Tonsai, too humid,too many mosquito's and didn't think much of the routes I climbed
jonnie3430 - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:

Get to Envers!
SARS on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to lost1977:

Agreed. Basically hated almost everything about Tonsai. Dirty; overpriced; crowded with far too many dirtbag hippie types; mediocre climbing.
Tyler - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:

Envers? Where's that?
Tyler - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Shepherds crag and many other Lakeland crags
Robert Durran - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:
> I'm hoping Pabbay and Mingulay are over hyped and then I needn't feel like I've missed out.

Sorry. You've missed out.

> I was disappointed with Sardinia

Have you looked much beyond Cala Gonone?

> Red Rocks sport climbing wasn't that great.

I actually thought it was quite good, but, like all of Red rocks, it does suffer from its proximity to Las Vegas.
Jon Stewart - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:

Shepherd's is crap, but while there are many mediocre crags in the Lakes they're not overhyped - the only one anyone's herd of is Shepherds.

The good crags on the other hand are awesome: Scafell, Esk, Pavey, Gimmer. The Lakes is overlooked, not overhyped.
OwenM - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to blanchie14c:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Tha Matterhorn. The hut stinks, water costs more than wiskey and the mountain is just like 3 Tryfans stacked on top of each other and just as loose.

Come off it, it's not that good. Biggest slag heap in the world more like.

cat22 - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Reiff was a little bit of a let down, I was expecting the gneiss to be as pretty as the stuff on Pabbay. Also it was cold, which didn't help!
mountain.martin - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> Is that really what you think about St. Govans? It's dreadful.
>
> I really like the Keelhaul wall, and much of Mother Carey's is fantastic. I've only done a couple of routes in the Leap, they were slimey and caked in chalk. Spectacular place, but disgusting rock.

I know some locals who slag off St Govan's, but as a local myself I can only imagine they think it is too popular and accesible to be "cool"

OK, maybe there are not that many classic 3 star routes, but most are well worth doing and a lot would get 2 stars wherever in the country they located.

I can only think anyone who thinks St Gvan's is dreadful and Huntsman's has disgusting rock has only climbed there on the occassonal day when conditions combine to make some areas unpleasantly damp.

As
victim of mathematics - on 08 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> I agree that Peak grit and Gogarth are over hyped for what they are. Lundy's not worth the bother either.

I read this and thought you sounded like an idiot who didn't know what they were on about, and then...

> Red Rocks sport climbing wasn't that great but you don't hear much about it these days anyway.

Why, for the love of all that is good in the world, would you go to Red Rocks and piss around on the unremarkable sport crags, when there's world class trad climbing right next to it?

victim of mathematics - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

St Govans is polished nonsense. Everything else at Pembroke is totally awesome (well, I've never climbed in the Leap, because it's all too hard and scary). I wouldn't be so quick to base your opinion on the worst bit of the whole coastline.
Jon Stewart - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to mountain.martin:

I haven't done loads at St Govans, but:

Army Dreamers: so polished it's ridiculous
Clean Hand Blues Band: so polished it's ridiculous
The Butcher: fun, but not a route of national standing
War Crime: Chossy and escapable
Depraved: Chossy, bad gear/scary (if I fall, that wire will pull the block off), eliminate, dusty
Deranged: Decent but unremarkable

So I've most of the 2/3* routes around my grade. I won't bother going again.

Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to mountain.martin)
>
> I haven't done loads at St Govan..........I've most of the 2/3* routes around my grade. I won't bother going again.

You are right; St Govan's is pretty awful, but it is not representative of Pembroke at all. Unfortunately it is the first place many people go in Pembroke because its next to a car park.
LJC - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan: Southern Sandstone- some nice climbing, utterly ruined by being rammed to the gills with top roping imbeciles, vacuous grade obsessed egos and braying tossers who work in banking dogging the hell out of classic routes.
deacondeacon - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to LJC: Southern Sandstone isn't overhyped. It's crap but everyone knows it.
Oh yeah and can everyone stop slagging Stanage off :( admittedly it's not much more than bouldering with a rope on, but there are some of the most beautiful moves on rock there, many with consequences that are as terminal as any multipitch climb.
Like others have said a busy, midge day watching a group of heroes power screaming and then falling off FBD is a very different experience to soloing along the edge, on a cool, crisp autumn evening, where the grit feels like velcro, and the sunset is bronzing the rock.
prog99 on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to cat22:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Reiff was a little bit of a let down, I was expecting the gneiss to be as pretty as the stuff on Pabbay. Also it was cold, which didn't help!
You must have got lost then, Reiff is sandstone!

andi turner - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I find Raven Tor about as terrible as a famous place can be, polished and too busy. And places like Parisellas Cave and Malham too for that matter (the catwalk atleast).

I would also have said Buoux, because at the time I found it all desperate and I was at a particular sad point in my life. Looking back however, it was actually one of the seminal moments of my life.
jonnie3430 - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:
> (In reply to jonnie3430)
>
> Envers? Where's that?

http://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crag.php?id=10511
Bulls Crack - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Iain Peters:
> (In reply to Pagan)
> [...]
>
> Examples?!

Seconded! Can't seem to remember anything too amiss.

Targassonn: attractive place and some good bouldering but another Font it is not. The guide makes it look like there are lots of secteurs and circuits whereas in fact there is one central good one and a few good boulders elsewhere.

But then again i'm not big on bouldering.
Bulls Crack - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> [...]

>
> Don't get me wrong; Gogarth is good but just not quite THAT good.

I rather think it is you know!
ads.ukclimbing.com
Jon Stewart - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to deacondeacon:
> (In reply to LJC) Southern Sandstone isn't overhyped. It's crap but everyone knows it.
> Oh yeah and can everyone stop slagging Stanage off :( admittedly it's not much more than bouldering with a rope on, but there are some of the most beautiful moves on rock there

There's no point trying to explain. These people wouldn't understand what do with routes like DIY, Pig's Ear, Satin, Daydreamer even if they came with an instruction manual (which between us we've basically provided). "But they're only 8m high".

Perhaps they judge books according to the number of pages?
mike kann - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart: Ohhhhh so the MOVEMENT is enjoyable. You should have said silly. Now I totally understand. You're right, Stanage has better moves than anywhere else in the world.
Kemics - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to mountain.martin)
>
> I haven't done loads at St Govans, but:
>
> Army Dreamers: so polished it's ridiculous
> Clean Hand Blues Band: so polished it's ridiculous



WHAT?! what.....like ....what?! Really? I don't remember there being even the tiniest smidge of polish on either of those routes.

Ramblin dave - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart) You're right, Stanage has better moves than anywhere else in the world.

Yes, that's exactly what he said, well done, ten out of ten for reading comprehension.
Al Evans on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart: Yeh we thought Assassin would become a bit of a classic when we did it, it's never seemed to get the popularity it deserves.
victim of mathematics - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Kemics:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [...]
>
>
>
> WHAT?! what.....like ....what?! Really? I don't remember there being even the tiniest smidge of polish on either of those routes.

Hur hur hur. On a thread with a higher than usual (which is saying something) proportion of people talking absolute poppycock, this wins. Well done.
metal arms on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:
> (In reply to deacondeacon)
> [...]
>
> There's no point trying to explain. These people wouldn't understand what do with routes like DIY, Pig's Ear, Satin, Daydreamer even if they came with an instruction manual (which between us we've basically provided). "But they're only 8m high".

I'm in that group. I heard DIY was brilliant but couldn't get anywhere! I am a bit anti-grit but that is because I'm always terrified of hitting the floor and I'm rubbish. I can see why those who can actually climb with technique and style would enjoy it though, it's just never done it for me, although I have tried it a fair bit.

I do agree with you about Gogarth (I thought The Needle was better than The Assassin though you should do that next time you're on main wall), but also think you should explore Pembroke a bit more. There's so much rock there and don't judge it just by St Govans (although this does have some good routes IMO and there's no polish on The Kraken!).
DaveAtkinson - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:The Bowderstone. No. Bouldering venues anywhere.
Ramblin dave - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to DaveAtkinson:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)The Bowderstone. No. Bouldering venues anywhere.

Fontainebleau is complete shit... I mean some of the routes aren't even as tall as grit!
Dave Garnett - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Lliwedd, because it's a dirty choss pile.

Really, which routes did you do? If you meant to say a proper huge mountain crag which requires a good deal of judgement but provides the closest thing to an fantastic alpine experience available in England or Wales, then we're in agreement.

mike kann - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave: Oh purlease, hes the one casting nasturssiums and making broad sweeping statements about whole other rock types. All I said was Stanage has got to be the most overhyped crag in the UK. I didn't say anything about Grit, he's writing off the entirety of limestone climbing as loose chossy crap. Which clearly incorrect.
Dave Garnett - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Joshus Tree - A bit like a climbing theme park.

Depends what you were expecting, but I know what you mean. I like it but then I only go for the weekend when I'm working in Carlsbad. If I'd flown there from Europe expecting Yosemite or Smith Rock then, yes, I'd be disappointed. I would also have failed to read the guidebook!

However, it does give loads of UK-sized crags in a beautiful desert setting with some great climbing and bouldering.
Kid Spatula - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

The Alps. Bunch of choss held together with snow.
Scotland. Unreliable.
America. To spread out.
Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Dave Garnett:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Depends what you were expecting, but I know what you mean. I like <Joshua Tree> but then I only go for the weekend when I'm working in Carlsbad.

Yes, there are lots of places which would be fantastic as local crags, but disappoint as destinations for a trip.

I really hoped this thread would throw up some enlightening insights into worlwide destinations rather than the (I suppose predictable!) parochial bickering about Stanage and so on.


shantaram - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Stoney Middleton - in the mid to late 80's this was a well hyped area. I was totally underwhelmed when we visited. Gloomy situation and uninspiring rock. Stoney Middleton made me think limestone was sh*t, until I was put right by a visit to Pembroke. I can only think it was popular cos it was next to a bus stop and you could doss there for free

Reiff - didn't really do it for me. I guess it's useful for when it's too wet in the nearby mountains.

Giggleswick - utterly mediocre sport climbing
jonnie3430 - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Dave Garnett:
> (In reply to jonnie3430)
> [...]
>
> fantastic alpine experience available in England or Wales,

I was talking about it from a summer perspective. In winter I think it would be mega.
mike kann - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: All right. I'll stop banging on about Stanage. I found Yosemite valley a bit disappointing. I thought the climbing was great and everything but absolutely hated how every man and their dog was there. But even the cragging there isn't THAT outstanding. I find the place a bit oppressive. By contrast the setting, climbing and general atmosphere of Tuolumne Meadows was fantastic.
Dave Garnett - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:
> (In reply to Dave Garnett)
> [...]
>
> I was talking about it from a summer perspective. In winter I think it would be mega.

OK, but even in summer I think it's really inspiring. It needs to be dry, but the climbing is exciting and the commitment unusual for such an accessible crag, and at quite low grades too.
Kemics - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Kemics)
> [...]
>
> Hur hur hur. On a thread with a higher than usual (which is saying something) proportion of people talking absolute poppycock, this wins. Well done.

No. Really. They're not polished. Chudleigh is polished. Pembroke might have some tiny spots of polish but if they even remotely detract from the climbing you must have the footwork of a drunk acrophobic in roller blades.
Tyler - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Tyler)
> [...]
>
> I read this and thought you sounded like an idiot who didn't know what they were on about, and then...

Why? For having an opinion or having an opinion that's different to yours? I can see you're keen to show us you're a Gogarth veteran and all but your excitement you've failed to realise that the question was not which areas are poor but which are overhyped, so any answers given (including mine) must be taken in the context of how that area is generally viewed.

> Why, for the love of all that is good in the world, would you go to Red Rocks and piss around on the unremarkable sport crags, when there's world class trad climbing right next to it?

I'm sure you could think of lots of reasons if weren't so keen to froward your trad adventurer credentials, why not have a go? While your at it why not tells about all the world class trad you've done here?
jon on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:

But he does have a point - the sport climbing at Red Rocks just isn't as good as the long trad routes in the canyons. Just that he chose an unfortunate/elitist way to put it.
Mike Stretford - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to jon: V of M's post does strike me as pointlessly argumentative... I remeber a bit of hype about Red Rocks sports so I though that is what Tyler was on about. I'd have though most people would look at the spots routes if they were there for the trad.
alan moore - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
I've climbed utter tripe in vile venues everywhere from Sandford Quarry to Neilston and usually enjoyed the experience. The only time I've ever been completely non-plussed was at Portland Bill. Walked along Blacknor for a mile or so and wasn't even inspired to unpack the rucsac.
Al Randall on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: After trying and failing for several years to visit I at last managed to get to the Ariege a couple of weeks ago. I was expecting an alpine environment and was a tad disappointed to find it is in fact heavily forested. I thought Calames was a bit broken and vegetated, Sinsat was very polished and Dent D'Orlu covered in lichen. The best crag was Auzat which we at first dismissed as we could only see a few feet sticking out of the trees and it looked a bit insignificant. Don't get me wrong we did some brilliant climbing it's just that I prefer to be out in the open with mountains and/or a desert type landscape. I can climb through the trees in Britain so I'm looking for something a little different when I go abroad.

Al
CurlyStevo - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to alan moore:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> I've climbed utter tripe in vile venues everywhere from Sandford Quarry to Neilston and usually enjoyed the experience. The only time I've ever been completely non-plussed was at Portland Bill. Walked along Blacknor for a mile or so and wasn't even inspired to unpack the rucsac.

Did you totally miss stuff in the Reptile Smile area, or indeed Pregnant Pause!
Tyler - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to jon:

> But he does have a point - the sport climbing at Red Rocks just isn't as good as the long trad routes in the canyons. Just that he chose an unfortunate/elitist way to put it.

He also assumed I don't know that.......

Anyway, that's the point, there was a time when Red Rocks sport climbing was pretty heavily hyped, hence my disappointment. Like I said, no one hypes it any more.
metal arms on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to shantaram:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Giggleswick - utterly mediocre sport climbing

Is there anyone, anywhere who has ever hyped up Giggleswick as a venue? I presume what you got was exactly as described! Unless someone told you it was brilliant in which case name and shame!
john arran - on 09 Oct 2012
bpmclimb - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)

>
> Bosigran - if ever a crag had been ruined by a steadfast refusal from guidebook writers to grade it in accordance with everywhere else in the world, then this is it. Maybe it's just me,

It is just you :)
In reply to All:

There seems a lot of disappointed climbers in the UK - maybe they just expect too much? Most of the venues dismissed in the thread, I thought were great - I guess I have lower standards!

My choice, Crowden Great Quarry, went there with the 'new' guide in about 1971 in which I believe it was compared to Millstone. Didn't climb then and have never been back!

Chris
ads.ukclimbing.com
Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to john arran:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Birch Quarry
>
> http://www.planetfear.com/articles/01_Birch_Quarry_834.html

Fantastic!

It looks really shit.

a lakeland climber on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to metal arms:
> (In reply to shantaram)
> [...]
>
> Is there anyone, anywhere who has ever hyped up Giggleswick as a venue? I presume what you got was exactly as described! Unless someone told you it was brilliant in which case name and shame!

The guidebook writers! There are nearly as many stars as bolts.

ALC
robw007 - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs:

Yeah - but notice that most areas that one poster dislikes is the favourite of another - so this is all about climbing styles imho.

My big disappointment - and I need to whisper this - is the Valley (as in Yosemite). The glacier washed polished granite just doesnt seem to suite my clombing style at all! All the shops and stuff is pretty nasty too.

I much prefer Tuolumne Meadows - and better still the High Sierra.

Still going back for the Big Stone though - must be a sucker!!
Bulls Crack - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Kemics:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [...]
>
>
>
> WHAT?! what.....like ....what?! Really? I don't remember there being even the tiniest smidge of polish on either of those routes.

They are but people don't half make a fuss about it!
Bulls Crack - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to john arran:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Birch Quarry
>
> http://www.planetfear.com/articles/01_Birch_Quarry_834.html

Very good!
Jon Stewart - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart) Yeh we thought Assassin would become a bit of a classic when we did it, it's never seemed to get the popularity it deserves.

I thought it was better than Left Wall.
Jon Stewart - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to shantaram:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Stoney Middleton - in the mid to late 80's this was a well hyped area. I was totally underwhelmed when we visited. Gloomy situation and uninspiring rock. Stoney Middleton made me think limestone was sh*t, until I was put right by a visit to Pembroke. I can only think it was popular cos it was next to a bus stop and you could doss there for free

I agree. I have some (perverse) affection for Stoney, but a great crag it is not.

> Reiff - didn't really do it for me. I guess it's useful for when it's too wet in the nearby mountains.

Surprised to see this come up. I went expecting grit-style climbing in an incredible setting, and that's exactly what I got. The setting was even more fantastic than I expected and I thought the routes were even better than grit. I could spend weeks at Reiff - while it would be better to up on Beinn Eighe or something I know it's basically never going to happen.
driab - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to andi turner: Having spent a month back in "82" at Boux following rave reviews from British climbers, "brilliant", I must agree with your first impression. Steep unique finger pockets over and over again did not make for really pleasant outings. At the time my French climbing partners were obsessed with this type of climbing and despite a variety of interesting cracks etc.they insisted on these miserable pockets!
Bosi on the other was always a joy. As in buying a house, the 3 most important things are, "location, location, location".
Michael Gordon - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I was dissapointed with Bowden Doors. Yeah the rock formations are pretty cool but there didn't seem to be much in the E1/2 grades.
Bulls Crack - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> I was dissapointed with Bowden Doors. Yeah the rock formations are pretty cool but there didn't seem to be much in the E1/2 grades.

were you led to believe there was from the 'hype'?
Michael Gordon - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Dunno, somehow I thought there would have been more than there was.
Michael Gordon - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Bulls Crack:

...and the E1 I did seemed more like HVS anyway.
jonnie3430 - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon:

You should have looked for some of the Severes at Bowden, Long John is nails!
victim of mathematics - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> [...]
>
> Why? For having an opinion or having an opinion that's different to yours? I can see you're keen to show us you're a Gogarth veteran and all but your excitement you've failed to realise that the question was not which areas are poor but which are overhyped, so any answers given (including mine) must be taken in the context of how that area is generally viewed.
>
> [...]
>
> I'm sure you could think of lots of reasons if weren't so keen to froward your trad adventurer credentials, why not have a go? While your at it why not tells about all the world class trad you've done here?

Ha ha ha. You've attributed me with a lot of bonus thoughts there, thanks. I never claimed to be a gnarly trad adventurer, or a Gogarth hard nut, as I am certainly neither of those things. Anybody who claims Lundy isn't worth the bother is clearly wrong though. Thanks also for pointing out that overhyped doesn't equal poor, my grasp of the fundamentals of the English language does extend that far. Obviously you hang around with people who are doing a lot more hyping of these places than the people I hang out with.

There's an awful lot of people on this thread who are either just trying to be controversial, or who have written crags or areas off without really giving them a chance.
victim of mathematics - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Kemics:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> [...]
>
> No. Really. They're not polished. Chudleigh is polished. Pembroke might have some tiny spots of polish but if they even remotely detract from the climbing you must have the footwork of a drunk acrophobic in roller blades.

No. Really. I've been to Chudleigh. I even quite enjoyed some of it (except for Wogs, which was just awful). Army Dreamers is at least as polished.
climbingpixie - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I found Nurthumberland to be very disappointing. It's quite a long way to go from Liverpool and when I got there I realised I could have just gone to Helsby instead.

I find gritstone generally to be overhyped. Don't get me wrong, I love it and it's great to climb on, but it gets a disproportionate amount of attention and hype compared to other rock types. I assume this is mostly because there seems to be a sizeable amount of climbers who have never climbed on anything other than grit.
Trevor Langhorne on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

A bit of a limited range of UK crags here, is this indicitive of the narrowing of horizons of climbers operating in the UK? some interesting ones outside the UK

A few thoughts on some of the other posts

Bowden, short of E1/2 routes - there are loads of them but they tend to be graded VS or HVS!

Lliwedd is a superb crag for the type of climbing it offers, just don't expect 1000 feet of continuous clean rock, it is a different experience.

Shepherd's is crap? few would agree with that, it offers routes comparable to those at Tremadoc albeit a bit shorter but that means in a day you can do more routes/eat more cake and drink more tea in the Cafe (select your preferred choice).

You could suggest that quite a bit of gritstone is over-rated, the degree of hype seems to increase as the distance from the car park to the crag decreases. Kinder and Bleaklow have grit routes to compare with the best on Stanage/Froggatt/Curbar and you don't have to queue.

My thoughts on overhyped climbing areas include

Mid Wales especially Craig Cowarch
Many sport climbing quarries, including Horseshoe
Quite a bit of Llanbeis slate
Morrocan anti Atlas - a case of parents loving their own baby even though it is rather ugly?

Obviously it is each to their own, if we all liked the same things life would be extremely dull.

Frogger - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply:

You know you are so right. So many of these crags are just so overrated it's as if we have been duped into liking them. In fact i think im going to sue chris craggs, the cc, the bmc and ground up for brainwashing me with their excitement-promising propaganda. I mean, last time i was in the pass, i did sabre cut, and as i was in the midst of that straight cut corner of the second pitch, i actually believed i was enjoying myself, totally forgetting the laborious slog up that aweful scree slope as well as the fact that this thing was actually climbed years ago. Just think how many people have climbed it since!! FFS!! And dont get me started on pembroke. They still havent put a car park where you need it, and i couldnt find any ladders or steps or anything to allow you to get to the base of the climbs! As for stanage... f**k that piece of b****cks sh*tstone. I went two weeks ago, and you know what? There were actually some other climbers there! I actually had to SPEAK to these degenerates, with their over-enthusiastic love of a sport which they know nothing about. B***ards. I decided to ignore them and do some routes, but you know, what? queersville, quietus, the unconquerables, FBD,... dont believe the hype, they are all utter sh*te. Tottaly overrated and not at all worth the short walk from the free car park. Plus the view is crap - if you strain your eyes you can clearly see the hope valley quarry. What an eyesore.. who in their right mind would want to climb any of those 1,500 routes in such an ugly setting?
Utter disappointment, the lot of them. B***ards.
Adam Lincoln - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> Famous rock climbing destinations that didn't quite live up to expectations (and why).

Araps... The Gramps are so close!
Bulls Crack - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Frogger:

There's a warm welcome waiting for you in Lancashire son.
Bulls Crack - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to climbingpixie:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> I found Nurthumberland to be very disappointing. It's quite a long way to go from Liverpool

For a day maybe.

It has somewhat more to offer than Helsby though..and it's a nice place - unlike...
robw007 - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Trevor Langhorne:

Horseshoe overhyped - how very dare you !!!
Sean Kelly - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs:
> My choice, Crowden Great Quarry, went there with the 'new' guide in about 1971 in which I believe it was compared to Millstone. Didn't climb then and have never been back!

> Chris

I seem to recall that Con Carey loved that place!
johncoxmysteriously - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to robw007:

To be fair I've never heard anyone overhype Horseshoe; everyone knows it's shite.

jcm
Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

> Surprised to see this (Reiff) come up. I went expecting grit-style climbing in an incredible setting, and that's exactly what I got.

Grit style climbing? You're doing the place down!
Seriously though, Reiff's reputation is about right. And it's as much about the location as the climbing -I've heard Reiff referred to as "Stanage on Sea" - I prefer to think of Stanage as "Reiff by the cement works".
One of my favourite places on the planet; I'm still discovering hidden gems after years of visits.
Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
>
> Araps... The Gramps are so close!

Am I correct in thinking that, from a UK viewpoint, the whole of Australia is overhyped? Is it really worth travelling half way round the world when there is enough fantastic climbing to last hundreds of lifetimes in our own hemisphere?

Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> Anybody who claims Lundy isn't worth the bother is clearly wrong though.

It is almost certainly worth the bother if you live close enough, but that doesn't mean it is not overhyped. It is.
Jamie B - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Kyloe is good, but not in the same league as Bowden, which it seems to enjoy equal billing with.
Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon:
>
> I was dissapointed with Bowden Doors....... there didn't seem to be much in the E1/2 grades.

Failure to read the guide book, does not make it overhyped. Anyway, you are wrong; there are loads of brilliant E1/2 routes.

Robert Durran - on 09 Oct 2012
In reply to Jamie Bankhead:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Kyloe is good, but not in the same league as Bowden, which it seems to enjoy equal billing with.

No, I don't think it does get equal billing; it gets the good reputation it deserves, while Bowden gets the star billing it deserves.

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In reply to Robert Durran: Some of the stuff in Australia that is virtually unknown over here looks incredibly good. I was looking through Carter's book with my Aussie mate and some of the routes in there that my friend has done (in Tasmania for example) look stupendous, but not well known up here.
Misha - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:
Not being able to walk off half way up a multi pith route isn't committing, it's normal! If you can ab off in 2 or 3 abs and walk out, that's hardly committing. Ok, you have to leave some gear - big deal! What's committing is a proper sea cliff where you can't walk out or even climb out at less than the grade of your chosen route. The kind of place where you have to leave an ab rope in place just in case. Or a very long route where abbing off would be complicated or even impossible.
Misha - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Goucho:
Red Wall has 'interesting' rock but that's what makes it a great sea cliff!
Neil Carruthers - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Another vote for Costa Blanca; average climbing, mostly dreary countryside, too spread out and benidorm.
Bulls Crack - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Neil Carruthers:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Another vote for Costa Blanca; average climbing, mostly dreary countryside, too spread out and benidorm.

Goes for an awful lot of euro-lime


Wish we had it here though..and the weather!
victim of mathematics - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> [...]
>
> It is almost certainly worth the bother if you live close enough, but that doesn't mean it is not overhyped. It is.

I went last month with a friend who flew down from Scotland. It was his first visit and he's keen to come back next year. I'd have thought, given your general posting tone, that you were far too cynical to ever have over-inflated expectations of a place before you'd been. Perhaps that's what's stoppe me from all these disappointments that every key else's climbing lives seem littered with.

I agree with you entirely about Reiff though. I imagine on a grey day it might be a bit underwhelming. But in the sunshine there's few places I'd rather be.
victim of mathematics - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:

Key=one

Bloody autocorrect,
Offwidth - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Iain Peters:

There are a few VDs that are really at least S 4a (Andrew, Oread Bypass and Fasalt) otherwise the grading for the stuff Ive done sub HVS is pretty consistent.
Iain Peters - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Offwidth:
> (In reply to Iain Peters)
>
> There are a few VDs that are really at least S 4a (Andrew, Oread Bypass and Fasalt) otherwise the grading for the stuff Ive done sub HVS is pretty consistent.

Fortunately, grading Bosi is not my responsibility, but certainly wouldn't disagree with you.

Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Bulls Crack:
> (In reply to Neil Carruthers)
> "Another vote for Costa Blanca; average climbing, mostly dreary countryside, too spread out and benidorm."

> Goes for an awful lot of euro-lime

But I have climbed lots of fantastic euro-lime in stunning locations (Kalymnos and Sardinia away from Cala Gonone spring most immediately to mind). The disappointing Costa Blanca is, if anything, an exception.
Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
I'd have thought, given your general posting tone, that you were far too cynical to ever have over-inflated expectations of a place before you'd been.

Seems you are wrong; I've been disappointed by quite a few places, Lundy being one of them - not because it isn't good but because it is overhyped. I'm really not cynical about climbing at all.
In reply to Neil Carruthers:
> Another vote for Costa Blanca; average climbing,

Esperon Sur Central, Via Costa Blanca, Sector Wildside, Via Missing Link etc. etc. etc

> mostly dreary countryside,

get up in the mountains, explore some of the gorges, or the huge beaches of Gandia

> too spread out

Well it would be - it is a huge area.

> and benidorm.

Stay away!!


Chris
Enty - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to victim of mathematics)
> [...]
>
>
> Seems you are wrong; I've been disappointed by quite a few places, Lundy being one of them - not because it isn't good but because it is overhyped. I'm really not cynical about climbing at all.

That's very interesting. I think Lundy is one of the best places I've ever been and I'd put it up there with some of the world's best areas I've been to such as J-Tree and Redrocks.

I thought Reiff was bobbins.

E

Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> That's very interesting. I think Lundy is one of the best places I've ever been and I'd put it up there with some of the world's best areas I've been to such as J-Tree and Redrocks.

Yes, it is interesting; I would have all of these places on my overhyped list (though I admit I possibly didn't make the most of Red Rocks). When I get around to nuking the appalling Las Vegas, I'll only slghtly reluctantly accept Red Rocks as collateral damage.
victim of mathematics - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

What form does this 'hype' take? Articles in magazines, well known climbers banging on about it, or people you know telling you how awesome places are?
Michael Ryan - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Red Rocks isn't overhyped, it is one of the best climbing areas I've been to in the USA, especially for long and friendly multipitch routes of all grades....and you have sport climbing and bouldering, plus the nearby limestone.

Vegas is a good rest from all the wilderness around it!
victim of mathematics - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH:

> Vegas is a good rest from all the wilderness around it!

Vegas may be many things, but it certainly isn't a rest!
Enty - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Enty)
> [...]
>
> Yes, it is interesting; I would have all of these places on my overhyped list (though I admit I possibly didn't make the most of Red Rocks). When I get around to nuking the appalling Las Vegas, I'll only slghtly reluctantly accept Red Rocks as collateral damage.

Ha ha - the best multi pitch sport route I've ever done was in Redrocks - Levitation 29.

Cat in The Hat - ver easy but a great day out with Mrs. Ent

Rainbow Wall - I even did a bigwall there with a night on a ledge.

Oh yes there's some single pitch sport climbing which isn't too bad ;-)

We went back and got married in Vegas.

E

In reply to victim of mathematics:

>
> What form does this 'hype' take? Articles in magazines, well known climbers banging on about it, or people you know telling you how awesome places are?

Yes, and you need to factor in the:

"Oh haven't you been there? Its absolutely brilliant" factor!


Chris
Michael Ryan - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> Ha ha - the best multi pitch sport route I've ever done was in Redrocks - Levitation 29.

Ditto and Epinephrine, and others....
HeMa on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Lofoten, too many darn british climbers there. Spoilt it is.

Cham, way too many british climbers.

Arco, too darn hot or filled with german climbers.

Val di Mello, full of italian climbers.
Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> What form does this 'hype' take? Articles in magazines, well known climbers banging on about it, or people you know telling you how awesome places are?

In the case of Lundy, people just going on about it all the time as if it were the most stunning island in the world (presumably they've never been to Scotland), and in the case of the US venues more the fact that they are simply very famous but disappointing to me compared to other amazing places I've climbed over there.

Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Red Rocks isn't overhyped, it is one of the best climbing areas I've been to in the USA, especially for long and friendly multipitch routes of all grades.

Ok, I accept I didn't make the most of it - just a few hot days feeling a bit jaded at the end of a trip to the Utah desert (which totally lived up to the hype!).

> Vegas is a good rest from all the wilderness around it!

Vegas is good for nothing. Ir really does put me off giving Red Rocks another chance.

Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to HeMa:

> Lofoten, too many darn british climbers there. Spoilt it is.

Sadly, you might have a point there.
flaneur - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs:


> [...benidorm]
>
> Stay away!!

The irony being that the Costa Blanca is the Benidorm of European climbing: everyone has been there so no need engage brain before making the choice (best not to actually), an English Language guide (no need to struggle with menus written in some funny language) and Brit.-run accommodation (no need to speak with pesky foreigners - the occasional anglophone Scandinavians are alright). It is easy to spend a week there with no contact with Spain whatsoever. Many do.

The climbing is alright but there are much better versions of all the areas you suggest in other parts of Europe. The problem being you have to do a bit of research to find them and you'll probably have to talk with the locals a bit too.
Michael Ryan - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

and to the south is Clark Mountain....an incredible limestone area.

You'd be better staying at Kingman, Arizona Robert. More your scene.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingman,_Arizona
Adam Lincoln - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> [...]
>
> Am I correct in thinking that, from a UK viewpoint, the whole of Australia is overhyped? Is it really worth travelling half way round the world when there is enough fantastic climbing to last hundreds of lifetimes in our own hemisphere?

Grampians well worth the effort!
Enty - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Adam Lincoln:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> Grampians well worth the effort!

Could be there in 18 months. Need some pointers for 6a-7a sport and E1 - E4 trad. What would be the Oz grades?
Any good?

E

Adam Lincoln - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Adam Lincoln)
> [...]
>
> Could be there in 18 months. Need some pointers for 6a-7a sport and E1 - E4 trad. What would be the Oz grades?
> Any good?
>
> E

You are looking at 18-23'ish for sport. And up to 23 for E4 trad.

victim of mathematics - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to HeMa)
>
> [...]
>
> Sadly, you might have a point there.

F*ck me, there really is no pleasing some people.

Lofoten, Red Rocks and Lundy are three of the best places I've ever climbed. And yes, before you start harping on about how totes amazeballs Scotland is, I've climbed plenty North of the border and Lofoten cacks all over it. You seem to have a problem with other people being around, are you so nationalistic that the presence of non-scots brings you out in a cold sweat?
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Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> F*ck me, there really is no pleasing some people.

Who are you referring to? I am extremely pleased with a vast number of climbing venues.
>
> Lofoten, Red Rocks and Lundy are three of the best places I've ever climbed.

Lofoten is one of the best places I have climbed too. I just meant that HeMa had a point when he said it was a bit busy (not just with brits in fact). The honeypot routes (most notably Blaerbaer and Vestpillaren) will almost certainly have queues on nice days. You may not mind this, but it certainly detracts a little bit from the experience for some people.


> I've climbed plenty North of the border and Lofoten cacks all over it.

Lofoten is brilliant, but I reckon the best of Scotland (and indeed the rest of the UK) can compete pretty well.

> You seem to have a problem with other people being around.

I don't like crowds if that's what you mean. Is that so odd?

> Are you so nationalistic that the presence of non-scots brings you out in a cold sweat?

Eh? I'm only half Scottish myself.

Rory Shaw - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Red rocks IS awesome... however there are some overhyped routes there - prince of darkness was boring I thought. Levitation was pretty dam good in a totally amazing position. Only the good die young was another fantastic route. I did at times start to find the climbing a little samey and at time wished that some of the routes didn't have the shit bolted out of them.
jon on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Are you so nationalistic that the presence of non-scots brings you out in a cold sweat?

> Eh? I'm only half Scottish myself.

So is a ratio of 2:1 Scot/non Scot acceptable? Being a mathematician you'll tell me I've got that wrong.
Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Rory Shaw:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Red rocks IS awesome... ..... at time wished that some of the routes didn't have the shit bolted out of them.

I did that Dream of Turkeys (or whatever its called). The semi bolting style had made a bold E5(?) into a safe E2 with the hard bits now easy (6b ish) and the easy bits relatively hard (E2 ish). Not a bad day out but a bit unsatisfactory.

Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> So is a ratio of 2:1 Scot/non Scot acceptable? Being a mathematician you'll tell me I've got that wrong.

Any ratio is acceptable. I'm 1:1 myself.

Kid Spatula - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

You're very opinionated and odd in a 1:1 ratio.
Michael Ryan - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Rory Shaw)
> [...]
>
> I did that Dream of Turkeys (or whatever its called). The semi bolting style had made a bold E5(?) into a safe E2 with the hard bits now easy (6b ish) and the easy bits relatively hard (E2 ish). Not a bad day out but a bit unsatisfactory.

You mean the ground-up bolting style of the George and Joanne Urioste, who operated in quiet isolation in the 70's and 80's.

Plenty of trad at Red Rocks.

You need this: http://www.redrocksguidebook.com/red-rock-guide-excerpts.html

Croakinglizard - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to john arran: Ha, that reminds me of Hanghill Quarry in the Forest of Dean. Only Hanghill is even better with special glass mosaic floor. If your really lucky, as i was once, someone may even throw rubbish bags over the edge while your on half way up
Michael Ryan - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> Famous rock climbing destinations that didn't quite live up to expectations (and why).


A bit of an aside, but related.

Dave Pegg once said, that the longtime popularity of an area depends on actually how good it is, rather than any hype from guidebooks, magazines, blogs or websites to 'sell' a place. Seems obvious.

Quality being, rock quality, the quality of the routes, the gear, the accessibility...etc

So, you will often get 'in' areas...but if they don't appeal to all climbers, or a significant per cent of them....in the long term (unless it is all that is in an area) the place 'hyped' won't be popular.
In reply to HeMa:

> Lofoten, too many darn british climbers there. Spoilt it is.
>
> Cham, way too many british climbers.
>
> Arco, too darn hot or filled with german climbers.
>
> Val di Mello, full of italian climbers.

Olhava, full of numpty Finnish climber who don't know how to put nuts in cracks and want to top rope or bolt everything. ;-)
Jon Stewart - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]

> I thought Reiff was bobbins.

What were you expecting it to be like?

And did you go to the bit at the north with the hour-long walk-in? The routes are much better and the outlook is incredible (Quinag, Suilven, Cul Mor and Stac Pollaidh round a 180 panarama, across the water - jawdopping beauty). The bit near the car is better as a soloing venue IMO, I can see how that would be a bit disappointing. Stone Pig Cliff looked good too (very steep, quite long routes) but I didn't get a chance to do any of the routes.

HeMa on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to TobyA:
> Olhava, full of numpty Finnish climber who don't know how to put nuts in cracks and want to top rope or bolt everything. ;-)

True...

Not fond of Falkkarit either.

Generally it's not about the nationality, but simple other people being there...

Arms Cliff - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH: I think reliability of climbing weather should be a factor too, which I guess is why Lundy will remain more popular than Scotland!
Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Arms Cliff:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH) I think reliability of climbing weather should be a factor too.

Not sure about that. It might effect popularity though - I am increasingly tempted by desert climbing, that being one of the reasons.
Robert Durran - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Quality being, rock quality, the quality of the routes, the gear, the accessibility...etc

Surely accessibility should not be a factor. Yes, it will obviously make a place busier (is that the same as popular?), but it could at least equally be argued that crowds detract from a place and that therefore accessibilty detracts from a place. Does the Peak automatically get a head start over Antarctica?
Michael Ryan - on 10 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH)
> [...]
>
> Surely accessibility should not be a factor. Yes, it will obviously make a place busier (is that the same as popular?), but it could at least equally be argued that crowds detract from a place and that therefore accessibilty detracts from a place. Does the Peak automatically get a head start over Antarctica?

Of course Harper Hill is better than Vinson, duh!
Neil Carruthers - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Chris Craggs: Granted it has some good places, on the whole though I still think it fits into the 'overhyped' category. Doubtless the relatively reliable winter weather has a lot do with the hype/popularity.
TheDrunkenBakers - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> The Peak - some nice climbing, utterly ruined by being rammed to the gills with top roping imbeciles, vacuous grade obsessed egos and braying tossers who work in banking dogging the hell out of classic routes.
>

What a pompous response. Those top roping inbeciles probably includes me and is in large part due to my skills (or lack thereof) inexperience and climbing stamina. Do you therefore suggest that I dont climb on this crag because you dont like this or would you prefer that I build confidence and skill safely and at my pace so that i dont have to be an imbecile.

Also, are bankers not allowed to climb too? In case you hadnt heard, climbing is a good way to keep fit, enjoy the outdoors and be involved in a team activity - which is open to everyone. Or should climbing only be the preserve of knarly, wannaby philosophers who happen to live in Grindleford or beanie toting skateboarders who can no longer hack it on a half pipe?
Mark Warnett - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers:
i agree! Those bankers have a lot to answer for though don't they?! Not only have they caused a world wide recession they are also ruining Stanage at the weekends with their braying the bastards! Of course if they read this thread, they would realise the only way to really enjoy Stanage these days is mid-week soloing as some of the (definitely not pretentious) posts have pointed out.

Offwidth - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Mark Warnett:

Or early or late in the weekend days or any time at a weekend from November to April.
Ramblin dave - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Offwidth:
Since we're back on Stanage, I think whether or not you consider it overhyped depends on what hype you've heard about it. If you go expecting loads of top class single pitch low to mid grade cragging in an accessible location then it lives up to the hype - I mean, you can't heave a half brick without hitting a three star VS and every time I go I see more nice looking lines within my (rather modest) grade range that I want to have a go at next time I come back...

If you go expecting the last word hard British mountaineering or wild and remote adventure climbing then I guess it would be pretty disappointing.
Ramblin dave - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:
And I suppose that in general, there are a lot of bumblies like me who live in the south / east / midlands and enjoy fun and accessible cragging so you do tend to get a disproportionate number of people who go on like Stanage is the best crag in the world ever...
Mark Warnett - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:
I completely agree with this; I think Stange is a fantstic crag with brilliant routes, amazing rock and history and a unique landscape. in hindsight the last line of my last post was a bit snipey - no offense meant to anybody.
TheDrunkenBakers - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:
> (In reply to Offwidth)
> Since we're back on Stanage, I think whether or not you consider it overhyped depends on what hype you've heard about it. If you go expecting loads of top class single pitch low to mid grade cragging in an accessible location then it lives up to the hype - I mean, you can't heave a half brick without hitting a three star VS and every time I go I see more nice looking lines within my (rather modest) grade range that I want to have a go at next time I come back...
>
> If you go expecting the last word hard British mountaineering or wild and remote adventure climbing then I guess it would be pretty disappointing.

I think it is also dependent upon your own personal experience. I would probaly believe and feel the hype in most places is justified because I have very little point of reference - being somewhat new to this mullarkey. Some of you old hacks will obviously have seen much more and have a better frame of reference.

redjerry - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
Coming to Red Rocks and only climbing the sport routes is a bit like going to Glencoe and only climbing in the Ballahullish?......, (not even going to try and spell it properly) slate quarry.

The Canyon climbing is world class and many of the modern routes are the best yet done (compare Drifting to Levitation for example)...I'd say that the overall experience is if anything a little underhyped.
Gordon Stainforth - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:

I think to describe Stanage as a 'great crag' is the wrong wording. It's just a very well-situated edge with a lot of excellent short pitches on it.
Sebastian Fontleroy - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Frogger:
> In reply:
>
> You know you are so right. So many of these crags are just so overrated it's as if we have been duped into liking them. In fact i think im going to sue chris craggs, the cc, the bmc and ground up for brainwashing me with their excitement-promising propaganda. I mean, last time i was in the pass, i did sabre cut, and as i was in the midst of that straight cut corner of the second pitch, i actually believed i was enjoying myself, totally forgetting the laborious slog up that aweful scree slope as well as the fact that this thing was actually climbed years ago. Just think how many people have climbed it since!! FFS!! And dont get me started on pembroke. They still havent put a car park where you need it, and i couldnt find any ladders or steps or anything to allow you to get to the base of the climbs! As for stanage... f**k that piece of b****cks sh*tstone. I went two weeks ago, and you know what? There were actually some other climbers there! I actually had to SPEAK to these degenerates, with their over-enthusiastic love of a sport which they know nothing about. B***ards. I decided to ignore them and do some routes, but you know, what? queersville, quietus, the unconquerables, FBD,... dont believe the hype, they are all utter sh*te. Tottaly overrated and not at all worth the short walk from the free car park. Plus the view is crap - if you strain your eyes you can clearly see the hope valley quarry. What an eyesore.. who in their right mind would want to climb any of those 1,500 routes in such an ugly setting?
> Utter disappointment, the lot of them. B***ards.

Pmsl. F**k that piece of b****cks sh*tstone. Class.
Robert Durran - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to redjerry:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Coming to Red Rocks and only climbing the sport routes is a bit like going to Glencoe and only climbing in the Ballahullish?......, (not even going to try and spell it properly) slate quarry.


Hi. Are you expat Scot Jerry who wrote the Red Rocks guidebook? (If so, I spoke to you at the top of Huntsman's Leap last summer - makes sense from your logbook!). I only had the old guide when I visited and it was frankly pretty dire, offering very little inspiration for making the most of a short visit. The new guide looks, I hope you don't mind me saying, fantastic and inspirational (atypical of so many US guides) with loads of brilliant photos. So yes, my experience of Red Rocks was not properly representative (though I did actually like the sport climbing!) and I have been persuaded by this thread (and the book) that it is, in fact, world class and will have to go back on the list.

Nothing could ever make me like Vegas though.......
Offwidth - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Blimey, I agree with you on a post !;-) Great guidebook and hopefully I will be using it again over Xmas this year and trying not to get my hire car stuck on the exciting approach dirt tracks.
Bulls Crack - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Gordon Stainforth:
> (In reply to Ramblin dave)
>
> I think to describe Stanage as a 'great crag' is the wrong wording. It's just a very well-situated edge with a lot of excellent short pitches on it.

So its great for those who find it well-situated? (I'll leave off the ;-) since I know you don't like them!)
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Gordon Stainforth - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Bulls Crack:

Well, of course I meant it's great for those who live nearby (just as s/e sandstone is great if you live in the Tunbridge Wells area). And of course it's well worth visiting by those from much further afield for some of the classics. But I meant the term in a double sense: it's also in a very fine/beautiful setting. Fantastically unspoilt considering its position, and very well looked after.
robw007 - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to Sebastian Fontleroy:

Total class - love it!!
seankenny - on 11 Oct 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> I found Yosemite valley a bit disappointing. I thought the climbing was great and everything but absolutely hated how every man and their dog was there. But even the cragging there isn't THAT outstanding. I find the place a bit oppressive. By contrast the setting, climbing and general atmosphere of Tuolumne Meadows was fantastic.

I would agree with just about all of this, unfortunately.

Ricardo - on 12 Oct 2012
In reply to victim of mathematics:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
>
> St Govans is polished nonsense. Everything else at Pembroke is totally awesome (well, I've never climbed in the Leap, because it's all too hard and scary). I wouldn't be so quick to base your opinion on the worst bit of the whole coastline.

I'm surprised St Govans is getting a slating here. Agree Army Dreamers and the like are horrible but some of the routes cover amazing ground for their grade on an decent-sized accessible cliff 5 mins from the road in beautiful scenary. Where else ticks all those boxes? For example War Crime, War Games are zero to one star routes in my old 1994 Pembroke guide and they are 3* easy with no polish on them. As for harder routes Space Cadet and Test Case also superlative.

As for Peak Stanage may be a bit over-hyped to your casual weekend visitor but agree that cannot beat it for evening soloing in summer.

Thailand, Costa Blanca, Sardinia - agree over-hyped. I wasn't very impressed with the Calanques when we went either.

My vote - Polney - an hour drive from Glasgow/Edinburgh for a few average VS's
thomasadixon - on 12 Oct 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave:
> (In reply to Offwidth)
> I mean, you can't heave a half brick without hitting a three star VS

This is a great example of overhype - there are 11 on the whole of stanage! It's a good crag, but nowhere near as good as it's hyped up to be.
chickenman - on 12 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
Blimey Robert: Could this be the same Jerry, wanted by the Holyrood Park police for climbing on Salisbury Crags,known (not to his face) as The Blob and forever imortalized by a route at Poldubh (with hammered RPs) named (effectively) in his honour?
I'm suprised you didn't like Vegas, mr Durran; surely as a mathamatician you would see eye to eye with all the Punters who cleary have such a great grasp of probability!
Michael Gordon - on 12 Oct 2012
In reply to Ricardo:

I agree there are a lot of better crags about than Polney but I didn't realise there was much hype surounding it! It's just a good low level crag in a handy spot.
alasdair19 on 12 Oct 2012
In reply to blanchie14c:
>
> I honestly would rather have a week in skye or similar than go back. Maybe I had a bad trip or just didn't 'get it' but I never got into the atmos of the alps. Too many people for me but its not like I didn't know what I was letting myself into

U did the wrong routes... its amazing how quiet, intense and wild an experience is still possible in the alps. italian bivvy huts, mountain between 3700 and 3999, non voie normales on 4kers. rock climbs you can't ab off.

overhyped - costa blanca, bosi, almscliff

grit "small green rocks" or "inlaid gems" hmmmm
Stephen R Young - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Just leave the grades out of the guide books, put the route description and if its protectable and then the grading argument goes away!

Steve
Jon Stewart - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to alasdair19:
> (In reply to blanchie14c)
> [...]
>
> overhyped - ...almscliff

The hyping of Almscliff says a lot about Yorkshire grit for trad. The bouldering's excellent (where it's not polished, chipped or disintegrating) no doubt, but sadly what passes for a 3* route up here is a bit of a joke, even if you're a grit fan.
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to chickenman:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> Blimey Robert: Could this be the same Jerry, wanted by the Holyrood Park police for climbing on Salisbury Crags, known (not to his face) as The Blob and forever imortalized by a route at Poldubh (with hammered RPs) named (effectively) in his honour.

I believe it is indeed he!

Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Ricardo:
> I'm surprised St Govans is getting a slating here......Space Cadet and Test Case also superlative.

Overrated, horribly polished, unpleasant routes.

> Sardinia - agree over-hyped.

Did you stray far from Cala Gonone? If not, this is like judging Pembroke by St Govans!
Pagan - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Jon Stewart:

The hype surrounding Almscliff says more about the attitudes of local climbers and the inability of the general climbing populace to think for themselves rather than anything about Yorkshire trad in general. For what it's worth, I think Almscliff's a bit like the Gimmer of Yorkshire grit - quick drying, often in condition, most of the climbing is pretty samey/average but the good routes *are* really good and hold their own with any other of the grade and type. I'll never forget doing Overhanging Groove as a grit HVS leader, grabbing the jugs at the top and looking back down the rope at the runout - I can't say the same for many Burbage/Stanage/Froggatt routes I was doing at the same sort of time.

I don't think Yorkshire can match the Peak in terms of quantity of obviously attractive rock, but there are routes at every grade which are easily the equal of thir Peak counterparts - they're just a bit more thinly spread and may require a bit more effort to go and do, often admittedly due to them being on north facing crags and thus not always in climbable nick. Yorkshire is a venue which really rewards an exploratory mindset IMO.
Al Evans on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to mike kann:
> (In reply to Jon Stewart)
> [...]
>
> The thread is about overhype. Stanage is patently overhyped. It's short and samey and often crowded. Yes there are some decent routes but if you stacked all the decent routes up into a decent crag size you'd still only have a pretty average crag compared to how good people tell you it is.

For gods sake Stanage is 4 miles long, not just the popular area, how often have you climbed at Stanage End orsome of the other off the radar areas? There is no doubt that Stanage is THE best gritstone crag.
Almscliffe is a buttress if on Stanage.
jon on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan:

> I don't think Yorkshire can match the Peak in terms of quantity of obviously attractive rock,

Are your blinkers carved from grit, perchance?
Sam Mayfield - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Ok Robert a challenge - name me a place that beats The Costa Blanca on every level so it has to have....

cheap fights from just about every airport in Europe
Good Winter weather
not just sport climbing but trad, ridges, gorges, sea climbing, Via Ferratas, Hiking, Mountain Biking, Road biking and I am sure I have missed other activities
Great Cities to Visit on rest days like Valencia and Alicante,
Then a massive choice of accommodation and in some cases really cheap, like a holiday villa in the winter

Hmm what have I missed?

Sam
jon on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Sam Mayfield:

> Hmm what have I missed?

> cheap fights from just about every airport in Europe

That means there'll be others at the crag.

> Good Winter weather

So where will the snow and ice come from - its winter after all?

> not just sport climbing but trad, ridges, gorges, sea climbing, Via Ferratas, Hiking, Mountain Biking, Road biking and I am sure I have missed other activities

And the ice climbing?

> Great Cities to Visit on rest days like Valencia and Alicante,

Cities... PAH!

> Then a massive choice of accommodation and in some cases really cheap, like a holiday villa in the winter

You haven't read the bivvying thread have you Sam? http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?n=523119


Sam Mayfield - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to jon:

Hmm Ok if you come in March you can play in the snow on the top of Puig.

I can take you to many crags with no one else around!

Ice climbing, are ok you got me on that one, but we have enough rock you could dry tool I suppose, but dont tell anyone I said that :0)

Cities are for the girlies to buy shoes on rest days ;0)

I will read other thread now.

Sam
JDal - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Sam Mayfield)
>
...
> That means there'll be others at the crag.
>
...
Is there only one crag in Costa Blanca?
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Ok Robert a challenge - name me a place that beats The Costa Blanca on every level so it has to have....
> ......Hmm what have I missed?

You havn't missed anything, but have included an awful lot of things which might well pull in the punters but which have nothing at all to do with the actual climbing.

So that leaves us with the only selling point - it has both trad and sport. If I want trad there are miles better places to go. If I want sport, there are plenty of better places. If I want both in a euro sun destination, then Sardinia easily wins over The Costa Blanca.


Sam Mayfield - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Why does Sardinia win hands down, never been so interested to know.

I have heard good and bad things.

How many times have you been here just out of interest and which crags did you visit?

Sam
Ian Parsons - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to jon:

Come on, Jon - Costa Blanca's worth it for the cheap fights alone!
Tom Last - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Steph-in-the-West:

Sorry Steph, but Bosigran is a contender for the least commiting cliff in the South West. I was seriously considering bailing from the top moves of Thin Wall Special (glad I didn't but it would have been easy) and you can't really get a much higher crux on any of the routes there AFAIK. Pop over to the Great Zawn for commitment, or even the relatively mellow Chair Ladder or any number of other venues in West Penwith. Failing that Carn Gowla or Lizard Crags, Berry Head, much of the Culm. I would say Bosi' is slightly overhyped but only in that it is so escapable especially given that many of its near neighbours are so difficult to escape from.
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Ian Parsons:
> (In reply to jon)
>
> Come on, Jon - Costa Blanca's worth it for the cheap fights alone!

More to the point, if it wasn't for the cheap flights, I doubt many people would bother with the Costa Blanca!

Ian Parsons - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Flights? Nobody mentioned aeroplanes...
jon on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Ian Parsons:

I was trying to answer in the style of Rob Durran (YOU know I'll do anything to avoid snow and ice) but neither he nor Sam... or you noticed!
Ian Parsons - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to jon:

I'm a slow reader - I was still on the first bit...
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Why does Sardinia win hands down, never been so interested to know.
> I have heard good and bad things.

First of all, forget Cala Gonone, which is where most people go - some good climbing, but many of same criticisms as for the Costa blanca. Further south, quiet crags in beautiful locations with every style of climbing with everything from single pitch to big committing routes often stunningly located in wild situations above the sea or in big gorges. There is big trad stuff, but It's not what I've gone there for (so far!).

> How many times have you been here just out of interest and which crags did you visit?

I've been twice, based at Sella, but travelled to plenty of the crags in the Rockfax - some very good, others a bit disappointing. Pleasant enough, but I just found it generally a bit drab compared to othere areas. The coast seemed pretty horrible (in complete contrast to Sardinia!).
redjerry - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
"known (not to his face) as The Blob and "...the porker has a lot to answer for.
dan gibson - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: I think Costa blanca is great, i've made about 20 trips there over the years, never get bored with the climbing because it has so much to offer.

The Penon d'ifach is awesome, some great multi pitch sport.
The Wild Side at Sella is a fantastic hard sport venue, with routes that stand upto anything else i've found.

I'd love to know what routes these people have done who leave negative comments.

The same with Gogarth, please tell me what routes you've done to find it underwelming.

As for polished rock, I love it, along with loose rock, chossy rock, wet rock. Engage with the challenge.

Some people just don't appreciate climbing. I really wonder what some people get out of climbing, when they think Gogarth isn't great.

Rant over.

Dan

Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to dan gibson:
> The Penon d'ifach is awesome, some great multi pitch sport.

But what a horrible location!

> I'd love to know what routes these people have done who leave negative comments.

I've done some very good routes in ther Costa Blanca, but I don't think the area overall deserves it's hype relative to other areas I've been.

> The same with Gogarth, please tell me what routes you've done to find it underwelming.

I've done a reasonable selection of routes in various areas from VS to E5. Don't get me wrong; it is very, very good, but I just don't think it deserves the enormous hype it seems to get from it's devotees. I think it's flaw can be illustrated by imagining taking any 10m slice of it; the short pitches you would get, stipped of the sea-cliff location, would move by move offer generally pretty non-descript climbing in my opinion.

> Some people just don't appreciate climbing.

Odd comment coming from someone who says they love polish and choss.

> I really wonder what some people get out of climbing, when they think Gogarth isn't great.

I do think Gogarth is great, just not THAT great!
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to dan gibson:
> I'd love to know what routes these people have done who leave negative comments....... Some people just don't appreciate climbing.

Maybe you are missing the point of this thread a little - of course it is inviting negativity when people are asked to explain why places didn't live up to the hype. Maybe you should start another one about areas that did live up to the hype!
Sam Mayfield - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Sam Mayfield)
> [...]
>
> quiet crags in beautiful locations with every style of climbing with everything from single pitch to big committing routes often stunningly located in wild situations above the sea or in big gorges. There is big trad stuff, but It's not what I've gone there for (so far!).
>

sounds just like the Costa Blanca to me, I guess you have just never found the right places.

Toix sea cliffs are amazing if you want sea cliffs and have you ever done the barranco del inferno?

Also, alot of people come here from all over the world so I would say you are wrong on the flights score, plus they are not cheap this winter season and we are busier than we have been for years.

Sam
dan gibson - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: There's more to climbing than just the moves.

Are you saying you can't appreciate the location of doing an overhanging 7a pitch at the top of the Penon with 250 metres of exposure? I think it's a pretty awesome position to be in.

How can you talk about Gogarth in terms of taking it away from the sea and cutting out the 10 metre chunk you like. It's the whole package.

As far as polish goes, it has never detracted from the enjoyment of doing a move, it just increases the difficulty, which ultimately is what we look for in climbing; find something easy, look for something harder.

Is it your 100 rock shoes that can't handle the challenge or your technique?
I'm surprised you find anything in climbing to cater to your refined tastes.

Enjoying the banter on this thread!

Dan
Sam Mayfield - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to dan gibson:

Hi Dan, how you doing?

Loads of new routes/areas coming up very soon, and not a tad of polish anywhere, infact the rock is a tad sharp! and some really great locations away from the crowds.

Keep in touch.

Sam
Bulls Crack - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to dan gibson)
> [...]
>

>
> I've done a reasonable selection of routes in various areas from VS to E5. Don't get me wrong; it is very, very good,

So how far dies your 'very very' scale go before an area is justifies it's hype?! ;-)
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to dan gibson:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)

> Are you saying you can't appreciate the location of doing an overhanging 7a pitch at the top of the Penon with 250 metres of exposure?

I'm sure I would, but all other things being equal I'd prefer not to have the urban location.

> How can you talk about Gogarth in terms of taking it away from the sea and cutting out the 10 metre chunk you like. It's the whole package.

Yes, it is the whole package, and the whole package is the sum of the parts. The "best crag in Britain" should be able to stand up to exacting analysis.
>
> As far as polish goes, it has never detracted from the enjoyment of doing a move, it just increases the difficulty.

And detracts from the aesthetics (I assume you are just playing devil's advocate here!)

> Is it your 100 rock shoes that can't handle the challenge or your technique?

Mostly my technique probably.

> I'm surprised you find anything in climbing to cater to your refined tastes.

See the new thread I have just started!
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Sam Mayfield:
> Sounds just like the Costa Blanca to me, I guess you have just never found the right places.

Maybe not.

Sorry if I'm being a bit grumpy - I'm sitting at home with a big ice pack on my elbow when I should have been flying here (http://www.ukclimbing.com/images/dbpage.html?id=156253) yesterday. Anything to match it on the Costa Blanca?
Michael Ryan - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Sam Mayfield:

Do you have a business in the Costa Blanca Sam?

Yes you do.

You cannot be objective, even if the Costa Blanca is better than climbing in California, which it isn't.

I do not have a business in California.
dan gibson - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: New thread much better!!!

I just think that climbing being the most amazing thing there is in the world, climbing areas by extension can not be overhyped. They are great places to be.

All good fun.

Regards

Dan
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Bulls Crack:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> So how far dies your 'very very' scale go before an area justifies it's hype?! ;-)

Being very, very good (as Gogarth is) does not justify a crag being very, very, very hyped (as Gogarth is). It's all relative.



Enty - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Aesthetics is an interesting concept - two of the most interesting places I've ever climbed are The Dinorwig Quarries and The Owens River Gorge where the industrial nature of the location adds to the experience. (IMHO)

E
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to dan gibson:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) New thread much better!!!
>
> I just think that climbing being the most amazing thing there is in the world.....

I agree.

> ..... climbing areas by extension can not be overhyped. They are great places to be.

Horseshoe quarry is not a great place to be.
dan gibson - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: If Gogarth is so hyped, where is everybody??

Apart from DOWH, you ever had to queue?

Take a ticket and stand in line for The Cad?

Never seen many people on Main Cliff.

It's so hyped, no one goes there!
dan gibson - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Holyhead mtn doesn't count
Robert Durran - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to dan gibson:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) If Gogarth is so hyped, where is everybody??
> It's so hyped, no one goes there!

Yes, that is very odd isn't it. Presumably "hyped" is not the same as "fashionable". Climbing does generally seems to be out of fashion these days (unless you count bolt-clipping, bouldering and micro-routing).

dan gibson - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: I think we should start hyping up Gogarth.

Clean some of that sea grass off the rock and get some polish on the holds!

Went to Fairhead this year, that place needs some hyping, again no one there. Great place.
Sam Mayfield - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to Mick Ryan - UKC and UKH:

I had not mentioned my business buts thanks!

Is there climbing in California?

Sam Orange
Dave Ferguson - on 13 Oct 2012
In reply to dan gibson:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) If Gogarth is so hyped, where is everybody??
>
> Never seen many people on Main Cliff.
>
> It's so hyped, no one goes there!

I was pleasently surprised how busy the main cliff was this May Bank holiday, probably 20+ parties at the gearing up spot and the majority going down to the main cliff. Its good there is so much to go at that it never seems busy
Big Lee - on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I didn't think much of Rocher Canon at Font. The sandstone seemed the same stuff as Southern Sandstone, many of the routes I climbed were pretty worn and polished, the crag was crowded, kids were running around screaming and kept getting in the way of my mat, etc. There again I don't like bouldering much. Maybe other areas of Font are better.
TomLudd - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to some people above: I agree, Pembroke sucks - all 6000 routes are a waste of time. Especially the non limestone bits in North Pembrokeshire (soooo busy here - stay away!) always queuing for routes on these boring sea cliffs...

You'd be right not to bother with Pabbay and Mingulay - nothing to see here. And contrary to what the guide says there is no potential what-so-ever for new routes.

I agree about Lundy being shit too, especially the routes on the Diamond. Widespread Ocean of Fear? The Cullinan? Pants.

Gogarth is for loosers.

Infact, best stay indoors at the wall, and if you must venture into the dirty & wet outdoors, then be sure to find some safely bolted short routes not too far from the car...









omerta on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to jon:
> (In reply to Pagan)
> [...]
>
> Magnificent! You've obviously been saving that up for this very moment!

I concur with Jon. I do like the quality of your rant *very* much

Alkis - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to Trevor Langhorne:
> Many sport climbing quarries, including Horseshoe

Someone actually hyped Horseshoe!? I've only been once and I'd heard so much abuse about it that I expected a complete chossfest, to the point that I was pleasantly surprised, comparatively!
GBurton on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to Pagan: Possibly the best post EVER!
Jonny2vests - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

If we're starting to slag of Red Rocks, then its time to move planet. And going in to Vegas is not actually compulsory you know.

Fly to Salt Lake City, do some Utah Desert stuff finishing at Zion (Red Rocks' big brother) then nip over to RRs 3 hours away. Everything you need to sustain yourself while at Red Rocks is nowhere near the heart of Vegas, and quite easy to ignore 10 miles away.
SteveSBlake - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

Here here, part of my holiday plan for next year.....
Tyler - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Please can the moderators change the title of this thread to "Rubbish Rock Climbing Areas" then all the oh-so-clever sarcastic responses to people who have mentioned areas like Gogarth will make sense.
Jonny2vests - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to SteveSBlake:

Interesting. Staying stateside, or venturing further north?
MattDTC on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
>
> See the new thread I have just started!

Interesting how 'the other' thread stumbled to a quiet end, whereas this one roars ahead as one of the most popular threads around.

Speaks volumes



(is it ironic that I just posted that on this thread?!)
SteveSBlake - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

All US - With Loz, visit the Valley, Toulumne, Red Rocks and Zion. All unfortunately in late July/Aug so as to get full heat value!

Can you travel?

Steve
Jonny2vests - on 16 Oct 2012
In reply to SteveSBlake:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)

> Can you travel?

It's my middle name (JonnyTravelVests). Hard to commit right now, but try and remember to keep me in the loop. We were definitely thinking of returning to Zion next year, I was just utterly blown away by the amount of rock, more rock than The Valley I'd say.

Lol, I can't believe you're even considering July / August, you obviously have your reasons. Lots of shady rock, but lots of long sunny & steep approaches too. Good time to go to the Bugaboos...
marksykes - on 17 Oct 2012
What an entertaining thread!
I am amazed that no-one has mentioned Tremadog (Tree mud rock - says it all) where after spending time sliding around in the muddy forests below the crag trying to find your route, you then end up doing twenty foot of climbing on clean rock to descend through yet more mud and slime to the backdrop of noise from the road.
But even more over-hyped is Slate. The only reason I can think of climbing on slate is to make a change from the climbing wall - except there is less variety on slate.
Bosigran is not even the best cliff in West Penwith, let alone Cornwall or the South west - not as over-hyped as slate, but over-hyped nonetheless.
Stanage and Gogarth are under-hyped...
Ramblin dave - on 17 Oct 2012
In reply to marksykes:

> But even more over-hyped is Slate. The only reason I can think of climbing on slate is to make a change from the climbing wall - except there is less variety on slate.

Is it hyped? I thought it was a very culty thing, with most people thinking that there are a couple of famous landmark routes (Dervish, Quarryman etc) and a bit of low grade sport which isn't bad by the standards of low grade UK sport but otherwise it's a miserable industrial hole in the ground and they'd rather be up the pass in good weather or chancing it in Tremadoc / Anglesey / the Moelwyns in bad weather...
SteveSBlake - on 17 Oct 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:

Scool Holidays.......
Gambit - on 17 Oct 2012
In reply to Ramblin dave: Part of me really likes the slate, last trip enjoyed leading Comes the Dervish and strangely enjoyed falling off Poetry Pink even more. However I agree in least in part to it being over hyped as I struggle to get climbing partners to go on shall we day the more adventurous rock that involves proper trad climbing. Maybe slate is seen as safe and easy i.e. largely bolted so over popular rather than overhyped?
seankenny - on 17 Oct 2012
In reply to SteveSBlake:
> (In reply to jonny2vests)
>
> All US - With Loz, visit the Valley, Toulumne, Red Rocks and Zion. All unfortunately in late July/Aug so as to get full heat value!

You must be freaking mental! Toulumne will be nice but the rest... ouch. Why not go to the high Sierras, Bugaboos or Squamish?
SteveSBlake - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to seankenny:

Well, thanks for that - you'll be releived to know that you aren't the only one to think I'm mental,(or freaky) but perhaps for different reasons. Please take your place in the line.

Anyhow, been to Squamish before - it will rain....

My wife and thirteen year old may not be up for the Bugaboos....

Toulumne is the High Sierra innit?

Rest assured we are going when we can go, not when we would want to....

We know it will be hot - lived in Arizona for two years - give that a go and come back to me about hot!

;-)

Regards,

Steve
MHutch - on 19 Oct 2012
In reply to john arran:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Birch Quarry
>
> http://www.planetfear.com/articles/01_Birch_Quarry_834.html

I love the way that they have to put 'spoof!' next to it on the list of crags, such is the throng of credulous idiots who seem to inhabit the climbing community these days.


Have we established that everywhere is overhyped and basically shite yet?
GrahamD - on 19 Oct 2012
In reply to MHutch:

I don't think Stannington Ruffs has been overhyped, has it ?
Robert Durran - on 22 Oct 2012
In reply to Tyler:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Please can the moderators change the title of this thread to "Rubbish Rock Climbing Areas".

But it is not about rubbish rock climbing areas; it's about mostly very good areas which are nevertheless overhyped.
Robert Durran - on 22 Oct 2012
In reply to jonny2vests:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> If we're starting to slag of Red Rocks....going in to Vegas is not actually compulsory you know..... quite easy to ignore 10 miles away.

Hard to ignore the desert night being spoilt by the lights of any city let alone that of Vegas complete with lasers!

ddriver - on 24 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Red Rocks campground is closed June-August mostly due to extreme heat, BTW. I'm fairly certain the free overflow camping is long closed, so it will be quite difficult to ignore the bright city lights given you're likely staying there. Nevertheless, if you can stay there you can comfortably climb there, even when its 100 in Vegas.

Tuolumne is "high Sierra" but of course its also mostly a roadside crag and thus family friendly.

I'm in Salt Lake and can recommend any number of western US summer destinations for the family should you desire.
paul mitchell - on 24 Oct 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Both Stanage and Stoney can be a bit dull at times after multiple visits.On these occasions best leave the rope on the floor and get some soloing done.

Even stuff you soloed before can turn out quite exciting,especially without mats.
Also pays respect for some routes which were effectively solos as first ascents.

Mitch
Jon Stewart - on 24 Oct 2012
In reply to paul mitchell:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Both Stanage and Stoney can be a bit dull at times after multiple visits.On these occasions best leave the rope on the floor and get some soloing done.

Soloing at Stanage: great fun for all the family.

Soloing at Stoney: f^cking psychotic.


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