/ Moon pad's foam quality

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kermit_uk - on 15 Oct 2012
Just a quick question, I read a few reviews quite a while back saying that the foam in Moon pad's had gone down hill.

So

a) I don't know if this is true or not and

b) if it is do you know if it's got better? Weighing up what new pad to get in a few months time maybe and foam is important so wanted to check.

Cheers
cha1n on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

My Moon pad is about 2 years old and the foam went soft after about a year and it wasn't even used much its first year. My DMM highball was bought second hand not long after and is still much firmer than the moon.
kermit_uk - on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

Cheers

Hmmmmm yeah have heard that. Like the taco design with the strap cover/boots cleaner carpet etc but its gotta last.

Anyone else heard whether its improved?
Jon Stewart - on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

I've got one which is a year or two old. It gets quite a lot of use, generally on high problems (I'm no fan of the arse-scraping traverse), and it's still very good. I had a BD Drop Zone before that which lasted about 4 or 5 years I think before the foam was all compressed and useless. I'd say the Moon is holding up equally well.

The design, sh!t-side in, with the flap/boot-wipe is excellent.
oldcheese - on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk: I have found that the moon stuff is getting much poorer in quality. I am a massive fan of the designs they use but the stuff simply falls apart or is made out of inferior materials.

I have probably had about 20 pairs of the cypher pants over the years and love them but now they make them out of the scratchy cheap feeling poly cotton I will never buy another pair. And the expensive merino wool thermal I bought got a hole in it on the first wear.

I only have an old moon pad but that has been in the shed for years as it wore out so fast. I think Mr moon needs to look at the materials he uses as he has lost a very loyal customer and I know others I talk to feel the same

kermit_uk - on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

This is the problem a mate has a saturn and it seems fine but I keep hearing bad things.

Hmmm might have to be a highball then I'm not so keen on the design but I know they're bombproof. Or a Wild country big air. Heard good things about them.

Any other suggestions?
Fluvial - on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

I've been pretty impressed with most of my Moon stuff. The Jeans and Cypher pants have been fine except I would like their to a thicker draw cord on them.

My mat has been fine however its not seen a great deal of action but agree with others that the carry system with foot wipe is an ace invention.

But I guess there will be both happy and unhappy people. I can't say they have used inferior material but might need to look at the competition which seems to growing with companies like Blurr producing some good stuff and Prana lifting their game.
Richard Hession on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:
Having used both fairly heavily I would recommend both the snap bun and Metolius boss Hogg as good alternatives to the highball.
kermit_uk - on 15 Oct 2012
In reply to Richard Hession:

My mate has a boss hog too I do love it but can get a highball for just over a hundred quid which definately gives it the edge. I do like the boss though. if the price was cheaper.
Guy Atkinson - on 17 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:
I used my friend's pad the other day (it's almost new) and it felt so soft i couldn't believe it was moon, i looked inside and it seemed to be the same kind of foam they use in the Wildcraft ones in India.. where you need about 3 of them to every one BD pad..
It felt a lot softer than moon pads i've used that were a few years old..
snoop6060 - on 17 Oct 2012
In reply to oldcheese:
>
> I have probably had about 20 pairs of the cypher pants over the years

Have you really had 20 pairs? They must be pretty good if you have bought that many pairs. Mine fall down, and the drawstring is like dental floss, I wouldn't buy another pair for a fiver to be honest.

My moon saturn is probably 2 years old, and has some noticeable stitching problems. Its had little use, so the foam is fine, but I don't expect it to to last too long, which would be a pain considering it cost best part of 200.

The other moon stuff (Arial Pack) has got sent back, good design but total crap quality.

I do really like their chalk bag with the folding velcro top. Would still be going strong had I not lost it.

kermit_uk - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:


Figured I'd probably just get a highball and be done cheap and cheerful. But went out with one today albeit a fairly old one and it was sooooo soft it was silly! An my mate with a circa 3 year old saturn and 2 year old highball says the saturn if fairing much better?!?!?!?

I dunno!
Paul Twomey - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to snoop6060:

I've been using an Aerial pack for 2 years now, the top zip is getting a little stiff but the pack's been great. I've had the fly zip on 2 pairs of xs skinks fail though.
Ben Moon - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to oldcheese:
> (In reply to kermit_uk) I have found that the moon stuff is getting much poorer in quality. I am a massive fan of the designs they use but the stuff simply falls apart or is made out of inferior materials.
>
> I have probably had about 20 pairs of the cypher pants over the years and love them but now they make them out of the scratchy cheap feeling poly cotton I will never buy another pair. And the expensive merino wool thermal I bought got a hole in it on the first wear.
>
> I only have an old moon pad but that has been in the shed for years as it wore out so fast. I think Mr moon needs to look at the materials he uses as he has lost a very loyal customer and I know others I talk to feel the same

I am sorry to hear you have been disappointed with the quality of my products. It's always hard to gauge how the quality compares to other brands but based on the number of returns we get I would say it is at least comparable if not better than many of them. However perhaps not all our customers who have a quality issue send the item back for exchange or repair. I hate the idea of a customer not being happy and when this happens I feel like I have let them down. We really do have a no quibble returns policy and even if a product has been fairly well used if it has failed we will exchange or repair it.

Crash pad foam quality is very difficult to control but particularly when purchased from abroad. I would agree that out foam quality over the past year has not been what it was which is why as of December this year all foam will be UK foam.

I would also like to point out that all our pads are made with 1000D nylon fabric top and bottom which makes them totally bulletproof and the shells should out live the foam at least 3 times over. This is why we offer a foam replacement service which if taken advantage of gives virtually a new pad for almost half the price of a new one. Check out how many other brands use 1000D fabric on their shells.

I am surprised by your comment on the Cypher pant which is far and away our best selling pant. Although we have had a few issues this year with the elastic breaking around the ankle over the past 10 years generally I would say the quality is pretty much bomb proof and the design copied by many of the big outdoor brands.

We also sold a lot of the merino wool base layers and have received only a handful back in returns so again I am surprised by your comment. However as I have already said if you are not happy please send it back and we will exchange, refund or credit.

I am sorry you have been disappointed with your purchases but thank you for your support in the past.
Ben Moon - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to fozmeister:
> (In reply to kermit_uk)
>
> I've been pretty impressed with most of my Moon stuff. The Jeans and Cypher pants have been fine except I would like their to a thicker draw cord on them.
>

The new batch of Cypher pants which we just received now has a much thicker draw cord.
disturbed_one51 - on 18 Oct 2012
Ive had the Saturn pad for nearly 2 years and i have to say it has lasted very well with a lot of use. I havent noticed any problems with the foam yet and it has been abused fairly regulary (2-3xweek). The only signs of wear it has shown has been the carry handles and that is mainly cosmetic (the plastic surround is a bit dog eared). In general I think the saturn and the warrior pads are great pads and have lasted better than many other pads ive used such as the red chilli pads, alpkit phud, DMM highball and bd impact.
snoop6060 - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to Paul Twomey:

It may have just been mine, the zip slipped so couldn't be done up. It was a shame, as it was an ace trad pack. Moon replaced it hassle free, so that was fair enough. I sold the replacement though.
Papa Lazarus - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to oldcheese:

I totally agree, historically some well designed/well made products, but more recently (last two years?) it seems that cutting back in the quality of the materials/construction has prevailed over keeping the stuff top notch.

Saying that I do hope it improves again as Ben implies.

flaneur - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to Ben Moon:

Thanks for coming on here.

I'm very attached to my old Cypher pants and would like to buy another pair, however the cut seems to have changed in the last few years. The new style are far too tight in the thighs. Reported elsewhere: http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,19070.msg340427.html#msg340427

Any plans to change back to something suitable for non-stick insects?
Fluvial - on 18 Oct 2012
In reply to Ben Moon:

Nice one. I see Gav was in touch - Always been made up with the stuff we've had. Any chance the Cypher could be 2 inches longer in the leg like the jeans as they are an ace fit
rickeden - on 19 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk: Buy Snap!!!! Had my Snap pad 6 years and the foam is still like new!!! Great quality much better than any other pad on the market
kermit_uk - on 19 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

Good news on the foam being sorted. Was gonna email Moon and ask them straight up whether they knew there was an issue and whether they have done anything to sort it but as Ben has come on here that saves me an email.

Might have to be a warrior or saturn then. Just like the design more than other pads. If you check this Ben will there be anyway of telling if I go into a shop whether it has the new or old foam in? I know shops will hold stock of these potentially for a little while?




On a different note

I have a pair of skink shorts in XL that are almost too small very borderline and a pair of skink jeans that are L and too big really, certainly can't wear them without a belt. Glad I didn't just mail order a pair of XL. As they are not only the same brand but same style essentially I would have expected the sizing to be more consistent.



adstapleton - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

if you're interested in a foam debate, these guys have just started making bouldering matts and they are alllllllllllllllll about the foam, so to speak.

http://www.momentumbouldering.co.uk

I don't think you'll find better.
Guy Atkinson - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to adstapleton: When I had a look inside my mate's Moon pad the other day it was the crappy packaging foam mentioned on the momentum website.. not impressed.
Fluvial - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to Guy Atkinson:

Mine looked exactly the same as the momentum foam weird that..
adstapleton - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to Guy Atkinson:

No wonder it doesn't have the last ability you would expect from such an expensive product.

I know better foam is heavy and an arse to lugg around, but you'd make that sacrifice for a better landing. And knowing your landing is good means you can push yourself harder!

Everyone's a winner!! Except Moon.
Fluvial - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to adstapleton:

You did read Ben's reply to what people had said hr agreed the stuff wasn't upto standard and he had changed the producer give him a break until you can check he's upto his word.
adstapleton - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to fozmeister:

I don't see why I should give him a break! The fact that the quality of his foam is all of a sudden less than par is clear evidence of him taking his eye off the ball and not paying attention to a product that has HIS name on it!! Shameful...

I guess he's probably a busy chap but his business is bouldering, and making stuff associated with it. His job and responsibility if he takes this seriously is to stay on top of things; If the foam that comes in is shit, don't put it in a bouldering matt and make a bollox-load of profit from it. But ultimately you need to KNOW about what's going into your own products and take responsibility.

Glad to hear that they seem to have got their eyes back on the prize and are paying attention to the things they make again...
Fluvial - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to adstapleton:

From what he is saying he had seen the quality had dipped but obviously he wasn't quick enough to catch all of them.
At least he is aware of it and doing somethng and unlike probably all the other companies has a no quibble returns policy
dr_botnik - on 20 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

My moon pad and cypher pants are circa 4 years old, still going strong... although i dont think i could get away with wearing them down the pub anymore, definatly got a lot of life left for climbing : )
ads.ukclimbing.com
adstapleton - on 21 Oct 2012
In reply to fozmeister:
In the first instance: not good enough, if you sell it and profit from it, stay on top of it and ensure it's worthy of having your name on it. A fundamental requirement of an honest business person I think.

However, the efforts to 'fix' the problem are in a sense commendable but do not detract from the fact that shouldn't have arisen in the first place.

Sorry - I have strong views on this...
Guy Atkinson - on 21 Oct 2012
In reply to fozmeister:
My mate also said that Ben Moon himself had sent the pad out for some reason rather than just buying it in a shop..
In reply to oldcheese:
>
>
> I have probably had about 20 pairs of the cypher pants over the years and love them

Is that supposed to support them being hardwearing?


Chris
tallsop on 21 Oct 2012
In reply to kermit_uk:

Ive had a Moon warrior + pluto for just over a year now, and theyre holding up really well. I think the build quality is outstanding, as is the design. I love the fact that you can cover the rucksack straps with the shoe cleaning mat - i think thats genius.

The one little 'niggle' i have is - why go to the effort of making 'indestructible buckles' to close the pad, then use cheap plastic at the bottom of the rucksack straps? - Not that theyve broke yet! If i was giving a review it'd probably loose half a star out of five because of that, but that is being really picky!

Foam. - people who are having problems with the foam in their pads should look at how they are storing their pads, with taco designs its really important to store them unfolded. My pads are fine because I always store them open.

All in all, im very pleased with the products ive bought from mr moon, including a boulder bucket, small rucksack, cyper pans (x3 pairs) (which ive had for almost ten years and got on a random cycling website for 15 per pair!!)

Id definitely buy Moon gear again, especially as (according to this forum)Ben is happy to take criticism on the chin, in the interests of making a better product (even if it is already shit-hot). Nice one Mr Moon.


Tallsop
oldcheese - on 22 Oct 2012
In reply to Ben Moon: I really liked the cypher pant whilst they were made with 100% cotton. Since you changed them to the poly cotton blend they feel more scratchy and very slippy meaning they have less adherence to to the rock which is important for climbing especially knee bars. they are also less hard wearing. The elastic draw cord problems have always been there but I can cope with that as I barely unused the draw cord anyway

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