UKC

Not sure which forum to stick this in so put it in winter, and alpine.

As the title suggests, want to get myself an insulated/belay jacket for Scotland this winter so mainly looking at synthetics. ME fitzroy, Rab Generator Alpine etc...

However, also looking at going to the alps for the first time next summer and ideally don't want to have to buy another insulated (down) jacket as well. Would these jackets be warm anough for summer alpine use? Think we would probably like to summit at least one 4000m peak, possibly Mont Blanc.

thanks.

In reply to ralphio:

I bought a ME Fitzroy this time last year for cold days at the crag and Scottish Winter. Did about 5/6 full days in the Lakes and Scotland in full winter conditions and it was good for me... Good sizing so you can wear it over layers, easy to operate pockets etc with gloves on and decent sized pockets. I really like mine.

In reply to ralphio:

Same again for the Fitzroy. Its slightly heavier than rivals, but it feels bombproof, and is really easy to use with gloves. Not fiddly like some others.
Comes with its own stuff sac that is handy to clip to the back of your harness.

In reply to ralphio: how about a Buffalo jacket? I'm going to "shell" out on one ready for the winter...

I too use a Fitzroy! They're quite good...does anyone have suggestions for one that's slightly warmer?

In reply to ralphio: This review of three synthetic insulated jackets might be useful: http://www.ukhillwalking.com/gear/review.php?id=4457

In reply to McGuinness:

That's what I use for winter and alpine stuff mostly. Indestructible and warm when wet. Can be a bit hot in the alps, while a thermal top is still too cold.

In reply to ralphio:

All those things such as NF Redpoint, ME Fitzroy and Rab Generator Alpine are pretty much of a par (from memory). I would suggest trying them on and choosing the one that fits best and/or has your preffered features.

FWIW I use a Rab Generator from the days when they had hoods and it is great for Scottish Winter.

Serves me well Alpine touring/climbing as well though not as light other options for the Alps. If you're trying to cover multiple bases you'll always need to compromise somewhere.

In reply to ralphio:
Both jackets really good. I use the Rab and have found it ideal, it fitted me slightly better than the Fitzroy. Although I've taken it on some high summer Alpine routes I've never had to use it so far, it would certainly be warm enough as an emergency layer if needed or if slowed down by more technical climbing - using it as a belay jacket. If the forecast is good and you can keep up a good pace on the route I wouldn't take it.
Found it great in Wales / Scotland in winter.

In reply to ralphio:
I have got a Rab Photon Hoodie and have used and abused it totally. I love the jacket and its practically never off as its great for sitting around in too. Occasionally slightly cold, but i will carry a light fleece type layer or too to counter that.

In reply to Bradders: I rate the Photon Hoody too, which I first reviewed for UKC here: http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=2685 I think they are now a bit warmer with a little more stuffing in them, but a really good hood anyway. I have a TNF Redpoint Optimus - definitely warmer than the the RAB, but a bit heavier and crappy hood in comparison.

The next step up is a heavy weight belay jacket, something like http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=4444 Much warmer but takes up a lot more room in your pack.

In reply to ralphio: Rab Generator Alpine, for me key point was you could stuff it into its own pocket and clip on to harness.

In reply to ralphio: montane flux is good.

In reply to ralphio:

I picked up one of these for £50 from amazon, it uses Primaloft 1 insulation (which is what all the big names manufacturers use) and only cost £50.

It's also manufactured in Scotland and is a damn good jacket!

http://www.keela.co.uk/catalog/product/view/id/249/s/belay-advance-jacket/c...

In reply to ralphio: Check out the reviews on amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Keela-Belay-Advance-Jacket/dp/B002DPUB2M

In reply to ralphio:

I've used my fitzroy with a down gillet underneath when its really chilly.

In reply to ralphio:

I use a Montane Prism in Scottish winter and keep it in my sac as an emeergency layer in the Alps in summer and find that it does a good job for both.

But for long waits on belays on cold Scottish days you'll want something warmer (or more layers) and for summer alps, it'd usually be too warm as an outer.

In reply to skarabrae: yes. had also looked at the Flux as well. they all seem fairly suited for what i need. probably just end up getting whichever fits best. guess my greatest concern is that they'd be warm enough in the alps in case we end up having any mini-epics .

In reply to ralphio:

I looked at the Flux and decided it was too heavy and bulky for my needs. I haven't used one, but having looked at it carefully, I'd have thought it'd be far too warm (and heavy) for the Alps in summer: one sure way to have epics is to carry too much. Light and fast is the rule in the Alps - though nature seems to have its own rules.

In reply to ralphio:

If something's warm enough for Scottish winter it'll be warm enough for an Alpine summer.

In reply to Michael Gordon: could also be too warm for most alpine summer stuff. iv got rab belay jacket which i took to the alps this summer it is quite bulky and was overkill unless your pitching routes or on north faces. all the french and italians had quite small lightweight down jackets.

In reply to ralphio: The Photon Belay is really good. It's essentially a beefed up version of the Photon.

In reply to Dugg: The fitzroy is brilliant for Scottish winter but too heavy and warm for summer alps (unless bivying maybe!)

In reply to Simonfarfaraway: I'm a complete novice when it comes to alpine stuff but I'd always had this idea in my head that even for summer alpine you needed a great huge down jacket. obviously that isn't the case from what people see saying.

In reply to ralphio: I use the Fitzroy for welsh winter and ski touring in the alps as an extra layer if super cold. I would have thought it would be too warm for alpine summer. Great jacket though!

In reply to ralphio:
never mind down - you'll barely even need a synthetic belay jacket in the summer in the Alps if you are doing single day routes and moving fast....you just don't get chance to get cold and the sun can get vicious hot.
For Scottish winter I use an ME Fitzroy for all the reasons everyone else has outlined. It's just brilliant.
If the day is half reasonable i'll get away with my R1 hoody and a light softshell - last winter (including in Rjukan) I used a paramo velez adventure light - material on it was a bit light though and its now full of holes!

In reply to stratandrew:

It's nice on the bivis though, especially if you decide to save weight and not take a sleeping bag!

In reply to ralphio: I was considering an xenon jacket for this purpose in summer alps.

Would I freeze in Scottish Winter with it?

In reply to aldo56: Agreed! The keela belay is a toasty piece of kit!!! Ive yet to discover a product of keela that doesnt perform well and ive got shedloads of the stuff!!
I just cant understand why the keela brand isnt as big as other brands??!!

In reply to Flat4matt: I havent used Arcteryx, MHW stuff. I have used:

1. PHD Delta: good features but i didn't get on with design (removeable hood etc)
2. ME Citadel: the warmest but the heaviest (Scot winter YES, Alps NO)
3. ME Fitzroy: good allrounder (sometimes you need something this warm in the alps, trust me!)
4. Patagonia DAS: good allrounder and bit warmer than Fitzroy (prob my no1 choice for Scotland)
5. Montane Flux: another good all rounder (not warm enough for me for proper 2 hr Scot winter belays)

I'd say get 2: a DAS and AN Other. Maybe a 60g/sqm insulation jacket e.g. Rab, Montane. If one only then Fitzroy cheaper than DAS.

In reply to ralphio:


I have a nano puff jacket. Pata-Guchi! Packs down to bugger all. Before you buy look at the pack volume. I made the mistake of getting a lovely warm jacket. The mammoth stratus I think. But crap packed into a exped bag. Never been on a Scottish route! Also, think out the box. Look at 2/4 layers. I have a very light baselayer. A marmot variant vest. This is powestrecht back and a 'primerloft' front. Then for Scotland a full 3 layer gore tex, then the belay jacket.

My nano doesn't leave my rucksack.

However, I run warm

Good luck in the hunt.

However, never been in a proper Scottish session.

In reply to ralphio:
A lot depends on the rest of your setup.
For Summer summer I carry a Montane Prism, which is light and adds a decent bit of warmth. I probably take a bit less other clothing, and it comes out occasionally when it is windy / weather is iffy /loitering in the evening. It isn't too warm so I don't cook in it when I wear it. (I think I'd have a rather miserable night!)
In Scottish winter I have a ME Fitzroy which I really like. Get one generously sized so it goes over everything. I think it is just a bit warm/bulky/heavy for summer alpine .
(I used to use a ME Cirrus for both seasons).
If I was just getting one, I'd prob get the Fitzroy for winter and take some slightly warmer clothes in the summer (only taking it if I expected something cold). (you could play it the other way I suppose). As commented if you are into long belays then you might want more.

In reply to ralphio: Have used the Rab Generator Alpine on a number of Scottish winter trips and it was great for the few stand around times. Brought it for first alpine summer but didn't need it even over 4,000m because you're always on the go. Still happy to have it in the pack for emergencies.

In reply to ralphio: Have a look at the NF Makalu jacket, awesome face fabric, 130g Primaloft 1 insulation, and a really good hood.

In reply to ralphio: cheers for all the advice guys. still a bit unsure what to go for but leaning towards the fitzroy. i run pretty hot so it night be spending a lot of time at the bottom of my bag in the alps. going to see how small it packs down in the shop.

In reply to ralphio: Patagonia DAS parka is the business