UKC

I know there are always lots of threads about which Axe so sorry but:
THere is currently a good deal on DMM Fly axes. I'm hoping to start Winter stuff this season if I can get all the gear and Alps next Summer if I can afford gear and course.
I had thought I should spend my money on Boots and crampons first because then regardless of whether I can afford Axes I can get out in the hills walking in the wintery conditions. But there is now a good deal with Axes for 165 pounds. That said when I went Ice Climbing (in a freezer) I used the BD vipers and thought they felt good. I'm so conflicted.
What should I do?

In reply to puppythedog: imo spend your money on boots, you can use any crampons or axes and I'd be inclined to get those second hand if you're tight for cash. If you liked the vipers then go with them if you can, rather than go for an axe you haven't tried. There's a pair on ebay just now - www.tinyurl.com/9o783r7.

Ben

In reply to Sharp:
Is there a lanyard attachment point on the old vipers?

In reply to puppythedog:
I would advise either you get a pair of second hand axes with view to selling them on in a few years when you know exactly what you want OR you go straight for an axe you can climb leashless with now and won't need upgrading.

If you go for the former, flys, alp wings,etc will be fine and you can get a pair for about 100 quid second hand. The main down side to this approach is that you may end up with axes that need leashes and I think you'd be better going straight to a lanyard leashless system.

If the later you'd probably be best going for something like the Viper / Quark / Matrix Light etc, although I think opinion is slowly changing to axes like the nomics being preferable. Really you'd need to get to a shop and swing a few. In this class I'd get the Vipers personally. I definately would not buy new axes now a days that do not come with a grip rest and a lanyard attachment point in the ferrule / spike on the bottom end of the shaft.

I don't think there is any point buying Flys new now a days, the design has been superseeded. Yes they work but why not get something that work all round better?

In reply to CurlyStevo: Thank you, and just for my understanding:
Leashless meaning they can be attached by a cord from the base of the axe to my harness rather than the sticking your hand through a loop? Or would the attachment be elsewhere.
I ask so that I can recognise ones that can be used Lanyard leashlesly .

In reply to puppythedog:

The new Flys can be used leashless and with a lanyard.....

In reply to Kid Spatula:
True, but the axes don't have an upper grip rest and could do with having a more defined curve, this not only makes the axes easier to grip but also helps to protect the knuckles.

I also assumed the deal he saw was for the old flys that do not come with a grip rest.

In reply to puppythedog:
"Leashless meaning they can be attached by a cord from the base of the axe to my harness rather than the sticking your hand through a loop? "

Yes it makes the climbing more fluid / natural, reduces faff and generally helps to prevent hot aches.

In reply to puppythedog:
comparing the old flys for 160 or the new vipers for 220 a pair its a no brainer, if you are going to buy new get the vipers!

http://www.urbanrock.com/Viper-ice-tool-pair-deal

You may want to consider getting T rated picks and larger adze / hammer though.

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/Winter-Climbing-Equipment/Ice-Axes/Le...

In reply to CurlyStevo: Thanks, I was looking at the deal with last years model. It's the same question that gets asked a lot, buy now and replace in a couple of years or buy higher end now and keep. I think I'll buy after my boots and get something that will either last or hold a bit of value.
Thank you for your advice. Stay tuned for more questions on the threads because this winter and Alpine kit is expensive and I get nervous spending more than a tenner on anything.

In reply to puppythedog:
If you want something that will hold value get well known, well made second hand axes, they are always coming up on ebay and won't loose much value.

There really is no point spending 160 on old flys though if 220 gets you new vipers. The B rated picks will be fine for a few years and then you can replace them with T rated once you start doing harder mixed.

I would go with the vipers if you can afford them and stick with the b rated picks, they'll still last a lond time if you're just starting the winter climbing.

Prioritise the boots though they will be what make's the diffrence between a fun day and a bad day, get the best fitting boot regardless of the price; you can sacrifice in other areas but boots are something you want to get right!

In reply to puppythedog: James, when are you next at the wall? I will bring a few ice climbing books for you to read and answer any questions you might have. I will probably be going to the alps in January or February so you should keep in touch. I'm afraid I don't "do" Scotland any more, I've experienced too many wasted journeys over the years. For those of us in the south the alps are possibly more convenient and certainly more reliable. Having said that a day out in Scotland in good conditions takes some beating.

Al

In reply to Sharp: Ice axes seem to go for stupid money on eBay. I was watching a pair of Vipers the other week which went for more than the current Urban Rock pair deal! There's a pair of rather old-looking Flys on there just now sitting at £79 with five days left to run so they will likely exceed £100 easily (though they do have a set of spare picks). The Vipers you linked to are on £155 with two and half days to go, I bet they go for nearer £200 - and they're not even the current model with the hydroformed shaft.

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Flys can definitely be used with a lanyard for leashless - assuming you also customise them with a griprest & trigger, like I did with mine.

As it happens I am considering the Urban Rock pair deal on the Vipers at the moment. If the OP wants to get in touch I'd be happy to discuss a possible deal on my Flys - with griprest & trigger per the photo linked from my profile, both T and B rated picks and the original chokehold leashes for those who prefer that sort of thing.

In reply to Martin W:
You can regualarly get a pair of second hand axes (flys, alp wings etc) in very good nick for about 100 quid on ebay, look at the completed listings. I agree the more modern axes are harder to get such a good deal on.

In reply to Martin W:
Yeah it's funny how just about everyone who converts flys to leashless ends up buying more curved axes that are better suited for leashless.

In reply to CurlyStevo: Of course that couldn't have anything at all to do with the relative cost for someone who has always climbed with leashes converting their Flys to see if they like climbing leashless, compared to the cost of a new pair axes, could it...

In reply to Martin W:
pretty much the point I was making - once you have decided you like leashless which is the current trend, then leashless flys are not really what you want.

Anyway for the OP if the price is right they may be a good option as they won't loose to much value and will be usable leashless (assuming the grip rest you have retrofitted is solid).

In reply to CurlyStevo:


Last Sunday somebody paid £142 including postage for a used pair of Flys and they were the only bidder!

In reply to Martin W:

In reply to Martin W:
sure and last tuesday someone paid £102 - what is your point exactly?