/ Dawn Wall El Cap
But I suppose continual 5.14/5.15 pitches on that wall!!! probably justifies a 'sport' approach - indeed it's probably the only way to do it.
It must be the number one candidate for worlds hardest free climb if he does it though.
Seems a strange place to draw the line.
I was fortunate enough to be a few feet from tommy and jonathan working pitches on this last week and agree with gaucho that us mortals are in no position to comment on their style. What he is doing is totally out there. Also if you consider the general method of ascent of el cap then pre placed draws is not really a buggy.
It makes sense that there would be gear in place, it would be very artificial (not to mention laborious) to insist that all the gear is stripped between each attempt.
I don't think there is any issue here. Clearly it's not the best style but no one is claiming it is. When someone comes along and leads every pitch first go I have no doubt their ascent will be applauded as a great improvement in style.
I was watching Tommy on this in 2011. They were staying up there on their ledges working pitches - still wall style. Great to watch.
Ground up placing gear on the Dawn Wall project onsight will happen - in the future. Some of the "easier" El Cap free routes are getting ground upped.
At the moment this sort of stuff is so hard that after falling off, lowering and pulling through to redpoint on the gear is as good as it gets.
'Here is my vision of the ultimate El Cap ascent: Someone drives into Yosemite at night, never having seen El Cap in picture or in person. He or she walks to the base and onsight free-solos a new route.'
'The strictest ethical approaches to date are those of Leo Houlding and friends.'
'As long as climbers respect the rock and honestly report what they have done, they should climb in the style that they choose.'
'Free climbing El Cap may seek like a logistical nightmare, which it is. Hauling, jumaring, hiking, rope management and everything attendant to being on a wall is exhausting. The climbing itself is highly technical and not nearly as straightforward as a high-end sport route at, say, Rifle.'
'People are doing things today that were once only dreams, and that trend will continue. Onward!'
yes these two are really lowering standards!
Totally disagree with this statement "style" has nothing to do with how hard it is.
I can accept that this route is needed to be done in this manner and anything else is unjustifiable.
What i cannot accept is if you climb hard you can make up the rules !
P.s i,m not for one second saying that these folk are making up the rules. but to say the climbing community has no say in what styles are acceptable for hard climbing is just silly.
> What i cannot accept is if you climb hard you can make up the rules !
I don't think that's really the right way of looking at it. I think the really hard climbers, the ones pushing at the cutting edge, accept slight compromises in style because the routes that they are doing are perhaps not possible (at that moment) in < perfect style >. It's then up to us to accept that or not. So it's really us punters that are making the rules.
I think you are trolling again Paul.
Pre-placed 'draws, and being honest about it, is a trivial transgression compared to the chipping, frigging, aiding and lying frequently employed by your generation.
> I think you are trolling again Paul.
> Pre-placed 'draws, and being honest about it, is a trivial transgression compared to the chipping, frigging, aiding and lying frequently employed by your generation.
So true but I thought you lads had by now cleaned up your act ...However most of the above is now considered standard pratice.
Reportedly they are working the pitches in preperation for a ground up ascent .. At the moment they have wet socks as the weather is not good.
I could be wrong here, but I think (technically) it can't be ground-up if you've already worked the pitches; but I know what you mean...no, wait - actually it can, if you worked them ground-up...I think.....sorry, I'm off to bed!
Have individual pitches on routes been rap-bolted? Can't be that many.
Obviously some of the belays and escape routes have been - I've not really got a problem with that.
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