Thanks for the post - I'll be sure to send my support for a permanent re-opening of a legal road.
No doubt your going to say that the noise spoils the tranquillity but what about the noise of hundreds of climbers at stanage every weekend clanging metal together and shouting safe/take.
You may also mention the damage to the ground (again to a tiny part of the great outdoors) but what about looking to the erosion of both the ground at the foot of popular crags and the damage and polishing to the rock face.
Not because you drive off-road, but because you come on a forum like this where you're guaranteed to meet almost universal opposition to your viewpoint.
You'd probably have more success going on a Vegan forum to extol the virtues of eating raw beef.
> Not because you drive off-road, but because you come on a forum like this where you're guaranteed to meet almost universal opposition to your viewpoint.
> You'd probably have more success going on a Vegan forum to extol the virtues of eating raw beef.
I don't remember your 'universal opposition' last time a 4x4 bitch fight was called, I recall a fairly good debate was had by all
Personally, the blinking great paths that seem to pop up all over the place is just as bad as the damage done by off-roading to my mind.
Mind you, on a similar subject, I recently did a walk around Loch A'an, which incorporated Beinn Mheadhoin, Derry Cairngorm and Ben Macdui (first time in Cairngorms pretty much, always used to prefer the western Highlands) and was rather shocked at the damage caused by walking poles! Took me a while to work out what had caused all those funny little holes on either side of the path. Made me wonder what the long term damage of this could be, on the basis that these holes are all along the sides of the paths, which I always understood to be the weakest bit to start of with.
Tis like that thread on cairns, cept if you take the cairns away you can still follow the walking pole marks ;)
> No doubt your going to say that the noise spoils the tranquillity but what about the noise of hundreds of climbers at stanage every weekend clanging metal together and shouting safe/take.
So you point is that two people in a 4x4 only make a bit more noise than a couple of hundred climbers put together?
> So you point is that two people in a 4x4 only make a bit more noise than a couple of hundred climbers put together?
No my point is that there are hundreds of thousands of square miles were 4x4 can not go and a tiny collection of trails that they can.
People use the noise and damage excuse in their arguments to get them banned but conveniently forget the noise and damage that they themselves do.
It seems to me that walkers want to ban everyone but walkers. The horsey set want rid of mountain bikes, the mountain bikers seem to have a live and let live policy for all but 4x4s, the fishing fraternity want rid of kayaks and canoes ever thought they only have access to .01% of the moving water.
There is room for everyone.
> There is room for everyone.
No longer, I'm afraid, on these tiny little islands of ours. The time is approaching when access to the Great Outdoors needs to be banned to all including off roaders, walkers, trials bikers, runners, climbers, riders, cyclists, picnickers, hang gliders, ramblers, shooters, stalkers, fishers, dog walkers, skiers et al.
Instead we should bus people to vantage points along paved roads to look through binoculars at our wondrous landscapes and mountains.
That way the we will be able to preserve it all.
I wouldn't be so dismissive of his point about crag erosion. The evidence is there on the most popular routes, at the crag foot and the approaches. See John Earl's comment on Corby's, for instance, on this website.
I have been one of those who have written to object to the proposed closure of lanes for Trail Riders and other responsible users of road legal vehicles with off road capabilities. I was also in attendance of the protest on Sunday (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-20005880) - an well attended event.
I believe this proposed action is both a waste of valuable funds (whispered to be £100,000+) and discrimination to those who enjoy these legal lanes.
I'm a climber, trail rider and mountain biker and spend my money in the shops, cafe's and petrol stations of the Peak District.
If this approach was more widely used, a measure based on damage from a single use could be employed. If a single bike or 4x4 left a distinct mark it could be deemed unacceptable.
I'll admit I'm not a huge fan of recreational 4x4s on a lot of tracks, but that's largely because the couple of times I've come across them they've been driven by gurning fools who are unwilling to slow or show courtesy to other track users, in one case barely giving me time to scramble out of the deep narrow cut he was driving along before barrelling past, so I may not have the most unbiased view.
My reply was to Sir Chasm laziness in finding out the info for himself. I've expressed no other opinion.
Not just walkers but "legions of walkers". The real enemy of the Peak is revealed at last ;-)
Paul.. I apologise... I thought it was a hint at my lack of reply. I wasn't going to give him the benefit.
> And round and round we shall go.
> Walkers, climbers, mountain bikers all add to the same problem - as well as sheep & acid rain if you'll believe the link at the top of the search above.
Without wanting to comment on the overall debate, this particular argument is completely specious and really winds me up. You might as well say that chipping artificially alters the character of climbs, but polish also artificially alters the character of climbs and so if you're going to do climbing at all then people should be allowed to chip where and when they like.
The fact that two things have consequences of the same character doesn't mean that they have consequences of the same magnitude, and hence doesn't mean that if you accept one you have to accept the other.
I posted, then deleted. Really can't be arsed anymore.
It's a done deal by the PDNP and 4x4 are going to be banned and the anti's will all claim a great victory.
These funds would be covering what exactly?
As for the link to protest, ermm yes a go slow is the way to win people round to the cause.
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