UKC

I have a fairly old ME Lightline sleeping bag that is rated to -5. I get cold in it at about 0 to -2/3 degrees.

I use an alpkit slim airic mat only 2.5 cm thick (R2.5?) I have a thicker thermarest but its pretty bulky.

I'd like to do some winter camping/biviing. And want to improve my system.

I could go with a new bag like a snowline for about £300. Or a Exped downmat 9 (R8)for £115 or add a silk liner and a foam mat under my current mat for £50 ish (R??).

How much warmer is a Downmat going to be over my current mat? It's hard to put R values into degrees of comfort.

Any experience to share? Clearly I want cheap, warm and light, but I realise I can't have all of these. I'd like to be comfortable down to -10 ish.

Thanks

In reply to George Fisher:

Does your sleeping bag loft like it used to? If not, wash it and tumble dry it or get a pro company like W E Franklin to do this for you.

You will struggle to be warm down to -10 in a sleeping bag rated to -5, unless it is very oversized. If it is then wear all your clothes in it and that will bumff it up a bit. If the sleeping bag is not oversized then wearing thick clothing (eg. down jacket) in it could make you less warm.

A foam mat is unlikely to be as warm as a big down mat. Thickness is roughly proportional to warmth, so look at the thicknesses of the mats to get an idea.

In reply to George Fisher:

I assume you are already wearing baselayers and possibly a thin fleece in your sleeping bag? if not, do so. Think about wearing a thin hat.

I'd go with adding a silk liner and (if space isn't an issue, i.e. car camping)a thin foam mat under your self inflating one.

In fact, I tend to use the liner most of the time - it's compact and light, adds some warmth and keeps your sleeping bag cleaner for longer.
Search Amazon or go to Decathlon to get a slightly cheaper one.

In reply to George Fisher:
I have almost the same question, my bag keeps me warm to around 0 alpikit pd400 I was hoping to go camping at the weekend.. I have a prolite which I was going to supplement with a foam pad, although I have heard a bivi bag (was thinking the alpikit hunka) might add a few degrees to the system?

I have also heard of vapour barrier liners been very efficient but sound horrible.. Does anyone have experience with these?

Thanks

In reply to George Fisher:

Exped Downmat and silk liner works for me. And then wearing thermals in the bag, thick dry socks, and a hot drink before bed. And if it's really cold make a hot water bottle out of your waterbottle and a sock.

In reply to George Fisher:

consider that lofting insulators like down and primaloft etc only trap air and do their job when they are not compressed. Therefore:

Its better to lay your down coat over yourself than wear it, a closed cell foam mat will give better insulation from the ground etc etc

I'd buy a liner and a thick rollmat, wear a hat and some merino tights etc

In reply to JayPee630:

I like the hot water bottle idea

In reply to George Fisher: How about a cheapo synthetic over bag? Would help keep moisture off your down too. I got a ME Starlight Micro XL for £40 a while back for this job

Bag seems to loft okay. It was professionally washed about 2 years ago. Maybe I'm just a cold sleeper.

Done the hot water bottle thing. Normally wear a base and hat if its cold. I might try a Downmat to start with. If its not enough it would still be good with a new bag and perhaps a slightly lighter bag that a snowline.

Alpkit pd800 maybe.

In reply to George Fisher: A good foam mat added to your thermarest will be the cheapest way of adding warmth. If you have a down jacket take that too and have it wrapped over the top of you.

I have comfortably used this sort of combination - ME Dewline + good down jkt on Prolite 3/4 length + karrimat in c-10 degrees

If you are camping on snow or frozen ground whats under you is just as important as what you're in, if you cant afford a downmat a synmat is almost as warm but a bit cheaper.

You could also consider a tent footprint cut from 3mm foam underlay (sold by the m x1.5m) this has the advantage of insulating the whole tent from the cold ground and thus reducing condensation in the tent.

HTH

In reply to iksander:

I've got a 2nd sleeping bag that would go over, a 2 season down bag rather that synthetic but it all gets too bulky to carry in a reasonable sized pack. I'd like to be able to climb/ mtb with the whole lot ideally.

In reply to Belayathon: the trouble with using a bivibag is that it may lead to a buildup of damp in the down over multiple days, fine for one night though and essensial if snowholing!

In reply to George Fisher: rather you than me!

In reply to George Fisher:
Pd800 that was my plan too... None in stock till Xmas!!

In reply to thegoatstroker:

Rather you than me to which bit?

In reply to George Fisher: Climbing/cycling with your camping stuff!

In reply to George Fisher:

You could have your Lightline cleaned or upgraded by these guys: http://www.mountaineering-designs.co.uk/shop/2/index.htm They did my 40 year old ME Redline a couple of years ago. I used it for the first time this September in the States and didn't manage even one night without having to get half out of it due to being too warm! I can't remember it being that good when it was new!

In reply to George Fisher: putting any foam mat under a thinnish thermarest makes a huge difference. I used 3/4 length ultralight thermarest with a ridgerest under it. That's fine for winter camping in Scandinavia (stick your pack under your feet.

But are you getting cold from underneath or from on top?

In reply to jon: a downmat made a huge difference, but I could literally feel the cold coming up from the ground (and I sleep very,very cold - I'm comfortable in a -40 bag at around -5 :-s, god knows what I'll do if I ever go anywhere really cold)

Lots of kids I take camping use 'Onezays' basically an all in one fleece suit. They are always cosy, no gaps or riding up of the suit.
http://www.boohoo.com/restofworld/icat/onesies/

PRIMARK do them for a fiver.

I have a similar thing for my drysuit in winter.

In reply to Šljiva:

It does seem that almost all women feel the cold more than men, the new better rating system (EN 13537) reflects this. A warmer bag than the "average" man would need seems the only solution sadly.

In reply to TobyA:

Yup. My 4-5 season bag is my friend for anything winter. Although wearing a down jacket inside a sleeping bag can be a reasonably solution - many slimmer women will have plenty of spare room to do that inside a standard bag without worries about compressing it.

In reply to George Fisher:
Another vote here for the silk liner.
I sleep very cold and have found that lobbing a cheap silk liner in boosted the warmth considerably along with making my bag smell nicer.
I also sleep in more clothing now rather than the grrr manly kipping in boxers of my youth.
I had my 20 year old snowline dry cleaned by WE Franklins which improved it so much I had to go searching for my name in it to make sure they hadn't sent me a new one by mistake.

In reply to George Fisher: I use an ex-army gortex bag (£40) to add at least a season of warmth plus cuts out any drafts. It weighs more than a liner but I've always found myself tangled up in them. It looks weird in a hut or tent but works a dream. Normally with a 3-season hollofill bag; this set-up dries clothing extra well.
I once had the water bottle leak & soak foot of sleeping bag & socks. Hitched up my feet & all was bone dry in the morning.
In more extreme conditions my Paramo is silky soft so I can climb straight in then remove & use as a pillow when it's dry & I'm overheating.
Down bags also benefit from being in the gortex despite my worries that the down wouldn't loft properly; wouldn't try the wet clothes trick though.
There's always a moment of waking & rolling over when colder air reaches parts you don't want it too. Best solution I've found is to get up, have a pee & get back into what now seems a toasty bag once more. zzzzzzz