/ NEWS: Ondra onsights two 9a's, and suggests 8c+

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UKC News - on 02 Nov 2012
Adam Ondra, 3 kbAdam Ondra, who is spending two weeks in the Red River Gorge, Kentucky, has now done was everyone was waiting for. He went to The Chocolate factory crag to try and onsight two of the Red's hardest routes, Pure imagination and Golden ticket, both given 9a.
Adam has said quite clearly one of the...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67579
Fraser on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to UKC News:

It'll be interesting to see who disagrees with his down-gradings. Onsighting two 8c+/9a's in a day, that's not too shabby for a day's work!
Lord_ash2000 - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to UKC News: The kid is just on another a level.
royal - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to UKC News:
The mans an animal. Awesome achievement regardless of downgrades or not I reckon.
Blue Straggler - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to UKC News:

I really like the gentlemanly sportsmanship infusing the article, especially the comment from Mr. Siegrist.
puppythedog on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to Blue Straggler: Yes when I read it this mornig the thing that grabbed me most of all was the humility Seigrist showed. CLosely followed by the acknowledgement that Ondrawad onsighted two 8c+ routes in one day :-)
Hephaestus - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to all:

Is he the messiah? He's certainly the man of the moment! Amazing.
PeteH - on 02 Nov 2012
Personally I think Adam Ondra's overrated. I mean, sure he climbs harder than anyone who has ever lived, but how much can he bench-press in the gym?
Žiga Janež - on 02 Nov 2012
What an amazing achievement!
A-Train - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to UKC News: On-sighting all those 9a's is one thing but what has he done on grit lately?:)
Michael Ryan - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to Fraser:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> It'll be interesting to see who disagrees with his down-gradings.

Who can?

Just as a note: the first ten 5.14a/8b+'s were all downgraded in the USA.

Standard fair for climbs to get downgraded and a consensus reached after several ascents.
Alejandro S - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to A-Train: haha, I think if he came to grit stone the results would be beyond disgusting. He would be onsighting E9/E10 and may even onsight Rhapsody E11 at dumbarton rock. I did hear that he was climbing new routes in Norway on trad gear (somewhat poorly placed) and took a pretty decent groundfall. Maybe he does have a trad head after all, and a grit stone destruction could commence on his next trip to the UK :)
andy farnell - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to Alejandro S: Ondra has previously stated he's not interested in trad climbing. As it'll all be too easy for him I can't say I blame him...

Andy F
Morgan Woods - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> I really like the gentlemanly sportsmanship infusing the article, especially the comment from Mr. Siegrist.

Yeah this impressed me too, aside from the uber-wadness on display.
Daniel Heath - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to Alejandro S:

I expect a couple of weeks on Grit would see him loose some strength.

It must be hard to stay on top physical form the whole time.
Alejandro S - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to andy farnell: What are u talking about? I just told u that he was trad climbing in Norway and he took a groundfall. Sounds to me like he's warming up to the idea of it.
GuyVG - on 02 Nov 2012
In reply to Alejandro S: nein
Alejandro S - on 03 Nov 2012
In reply to GuyVG: Bjorn Pohl: "Personally, I think it was at the nick of time he left the north, as he had started to try onsighting loose traditional lines in virgin territory and according to a source very close to Adam he... well let's just say there are people who are better at placing trad gear. The other day this resulted in a ground fall when his first piece popped after he foot hold broke. According to by source the landing was "insane" but Adam was lucky enough to escape with bruises."
koalapie - on 03 Nov 2012
In reply to Daniel Heath:
> (In reply to Alejandro S)
>
>
>
> It must be hard to stay on top physical form the whole time.

Not so sure about this...isn't he only 17?... he's probably still growing!...so naturally getting stronger...nevermond the climbing and training he seemingly does. Might be a bit more relevant to olderwads?

robin mueller - on 03 Nov 2012
In reply to koalapie:
> (In reply to Daniel Heath)
> [...]
>
> Not so sure about this...isn't he only 17?

19.
Calder - on 03 Nov 2012
In reply to A-Train: The grit would crumble if Ondra so much as looked at it.
Michael Gordon - on 04 Nov 2012
In reply to andy farnell:
> (In reply to Alejandro S) Ondra has previously stated he's not interested in trad climbing. As it'll all be too easy for him I can't say I blame him...
>
> Andy F

Yep onsighting Echo Wall would be far too easy
JM - on 05 Nov 2012
In reply to Lord_ash2000: Which "a level" would that be then? Further Maths?
mikekeswick - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to UKC News: Aye...the lads nay bad. all this down-grading of other peoples routes does stick in my throat a bit - why not wait until others agree with him? After-all a consensus is normally reached by more than one person! It'll be interesting to see how he is climbing at 30. I used to be soooo into mountain bikes/bmx when I was that age but can't even be arsed to get on one now....
biscuit - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to JM:
> (In reply to Lord_ash2000) Which "a level" would that be then? Further Maths?

P.E. i reckon ;0)

Has he downgraded routes that have had a few repeats and a general consensus reached or is it just ones like Siegrist's that have not been repeated or maybe only once ?

It may be Siegrist's comment has a ring of truth to it. The lad is just too good and is giving his honest opinion but his opinion is not the same as everyone else. So who do you believe ?

Interesting point but it doesn't take away from the fact that he is the most amazing climbing machine the world has ever seen.
AJM - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to mikekeswick:

> all this down-grading of other peoples routes does stick in my throat a bit - why not wait until others agree with him? After-all a consensus is normally reached by more than one person!

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/southern-smoke-direct-514d-woods-lachat-and-issue-downgradi...

Golden Ticket was graded 8c+ by the FA. It was upgraded to 9a by subsequent ascents. Ondras grade of hard 8c+ isn't exactly a massive change from either.

Southern Smoke Direct has had an easier sequence (by a few grades!) found for the boulder problem start since the FA so arguably it was on the cards anyway. It's now been repeated twice more, by people who haven't publically challenged Ondras suggested grade. It was also only originally graded 9a+ because it was a grade above Golden Ticket, which by that point had been suggested at 9a by subsequent ascentionists. It's still a grade above Golden Ticket, and with an easier sequence for the start too.

Pure imagination had been repeated shockingly fast by some of the other wads out there at the moment, and Seigreist, the FA, has welcomed the grade rationalisation at RRG despite the fact it downgrades one of his FAs.

None of them seem exactly unjustifiable...?
GrahamD - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to mikekeswick:

Well he didn't downgrade many routes when he visited the UK so I don't think he just downgrades for the sake of it. He is one of the few people on the planet to have experience on how grades are applied globally and he is more than likely right IMO.
AJM - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to biscuit:

> Has he downgraded routes that have had a few repeats and a general consensus reached or is it just ones like Siegrist's that have not been repeated or maybe only once ?

See my post a minute ago.

The only one that was unrepeated when he got on it was Suthern Smoke Direct, and that's had 2 more ascents since his.


biscuit - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to AJM:

Well that answers my question Andy, cheers.
progrupicola - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to AJM: Three actually, Jon Cardwell has done it too agreeing with Ondra,Woods and Lachat
flaneur - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to GrahamD:

> Well he didn't downgrade many routes when he visited the UK so I don't think he just downgrades for the sake of it. He is one of the few people on the planet to have experience on how grades are applied globally and he is more than likely right IMO.

Isn't this clear proof that Hubble is AT LEAST 9a+

Michael Gordon - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to mikekeswick:

A repeater can only SUGGEST a downgrade which is what Ondra has done. Routes aren't 'downgraded' until they appear in an official guide/topo as that new lower grade. As you rightly say, this usually happens because the majority consensus is for the downgrade.
andy farnell - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon:
> (In reply to andy farnell)
> [...]
>
> Yep onsighting Echo Wall would be far too easy

As its not got a grade, is on some rarely in condition midge bitten crag in the middle of less than nowhere, I'd be suprised if it was on Ondra's 'to do ' list.

Andy F
AJM - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon:

I don't know about the "official" marker of a downgrade being the topo anymore. Blogs, the 8a.nu database for foreign routes, internet topos and all sorts of other things guide the consensus grade these days way before anyone updates a paper topo.

Let's face it, do you really think anyone is going to take a tick of Pure Imagination as 9a anymore after its been onsighted/flashed by two people who've said its not a terribly hard 8c+? Or the 9a+ now that 4 recent ascentionists have taken 9a? Regardless of the topo grade, they've been downgraded...
Robert Durran - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to andy farnell:
> As its not got a grade, is on some rarely in condition midge bitten crag in the middle of less than nowhere, I'd be suprised if it was on Ondra's 'to do ' list.

You really do insist on completely missing the point in your posts attempting (apparently) to do down trad climbing don't you?
Michael Gordon - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to AJM:

Whether others decide to go with Ondra's/others suggestons is up to them but that is all they are. I don't know how many ascents Pure Imagination has had and what others have said but (speaking generally now) would like to think that consensus' will be arrived at by considering the views of the majority. When considering downgrades I'm not sure an onsight ascent should carry any more weight than a redpointed one for sport routes since they aren't generally graded for any particular type of ascent.
Michael Gordon - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to andy farnell:
> (In reply to Michael Gordon)
> [...]
>
> As its not got a grade,

MacLeod has suggested it as being 8c climbing I think.

is on some rarely in condition

No less so than most other big routes on the Ben.

midge bitten crag

Hardly! Pretty rare not to get any wind up there.

in the middle of less than nowhere

?! One of the finest climbing venues in the country!
AJM - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to Michael Gordon:

Majority implies all views are equal though, which is clearly nonsense. People who have a good volume of Fr9s under their belt have a massively more valid view on top end sport grades than people who have done like 1-2 Fr9s, ditto people who have travelled widely and ticked Fr9s in a variety of places have a massively more valid view on grades than those who have only climbed hard in their local area. Ondra has both in spades.

I'd eat my virtual hat if these "downgrade suggestions" don't reflect/form what will end up as the generally accepted view on the grades of Pure Imagination and Southern Smoke Direct. Golden Ticket is perhaps less certain given he has said hard 8c+...
Epsilon - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to UKC News:

Golden Ticket was graded 8c+ by Adam Taylor originally, it's grade was only upgraded to 9a by repeaters. So basically, the best climber in the world and the best local climber at the Red River Gorge (and first ascensionist of the route) agree on the grade.
andy farnell - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Quote 'Favourite Climbing-Related Discussion Topic
Anything controversial' ;)

Andy F
Robert Durran - on 06 Nov 2012
In reply to andy farnell:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Quote 'Favourite Climbing-Related Discussion Topic
> Anything controversial' ;)

And your point is?
GrahamD - on 07 Nov 2012
In reply to flaneur:

> Isn't this clear proof that Hubble is AT LEAST 9a+

No, it shows that at the time Hubble wasn't a style of climbing that suited Ondra. Of course he's older and stronger now.

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