/ NEWS: Ondra onsights two 9a's, and suggests 8c+
Adam has said quite clearly one of the...
Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67579
It'll be interesting to see who disagrees with his down-gradings. Onsighting two 8c+/9a's in a day, that's not too shabby for a day's work!
The mans an animal. Awesome achievement regardless of downgrades or not I reckon.
I really like the gentlemanly sportsmanship infusing the article, especially the comment from Mr. Siegrist.
Is he the messiah? He's certainly the man of the moment! Amazing.
> It'll be interesting to see who disagrees with his down-gradings.
Just as a note: the first ten 5.14a/8b+'s were all downgraded in the USA.
Standard fair for climbs to get downgraded and a consensus reached after several ascents.
> I really like the gentlemanly sportsmanship infusing the article, especially the comment from Mr. Siegrist.
Yeah this impressed me too, aside from the uber-wadness on display.
I expect a couple of weeks on Grit would see him loose some strength.
It must be hard to stay on top physical form the whole time.
> It must be hard to stay on top physical form the whole time.
Not so sure about this...isn't he only 17?... he's probably still growing!...so naturally getting stronger...nevermond the climbing and training he seemingly does. Might be a bit more relevant to olderwads?
> Not so sure about this...isn't he only 17?
> Andy F
Yep onsighting Echo Wall would be far too easy
P.E. i reckon ;0)
Has he downgraded routes that have had a few repeats and a general consensus reached or is it just ones like Siegrist's that have not been repeated or maybe only once ?
It may be Siegrist's comment has a ring of truth to it. The lad is just too good and is giving his honest opinion but his opinion is not the same as everyone else. So who do you believe ?
Interesting point but it doesn't take away from the fact that he is the most amazing climbing machine the world has ever seen.
Golden Ticket was graded 8c+ by the FA. It was upgraded to 9a by subsequent ascents. Ondras grade of hard 8c+ isn't exactly a massive change from either.
Southern Smoke Direct has had an easier sequence (by a few grades!) found for the boulder problem start since the FA so arguably it was on the cards anyway. It's now been repeated twice more, by people who haven't publically challenged Ondras suggested grade. It was also only originally graded 9a+ because it was a grade above Golden Ticket, which by that point had been suggested at 9a by subsequent ascentionists. It's still a grade above Golden Ticket, and with an easier sequence for the start too.
Pure imagination had been repeated shockingly fast by some of the other wads out there at the moment, and Seigreist, the FA, has welcomed the grade rationalisation at RRG despite the fact it downgrades one of his FAs.
None of them seem exactly unjustifiable...?
Well he didn't downgrade many routes when he visited the UK so I don't think he just downgrades for the sake of it. He is one of the few people on the planet to have experience on how grades are applied globally and he is more than likely right IMO.
See my post a minute ago.
The only one that was unrepeated when he got on it was Suthern Smoke Direct, and that's had 2 more ascents since his.
Well that answers my question Andy, cheers.
Isn't this clear proof that Hubble is AT LEAST 9a+
A repeater can only SUGGEST a downgrade which is what Ondra has done. Routes aren't 'downgraded' until they appear in an official guide/topo as that new lower grade. As you rightly say, this usually happens because the majority consensus is for the downgrade.
> Yep onsighting Echo Wall would be far too easy
As its not got a grade, is on some rarely in condition midge bitten crag in the middle of less than nowhere, I'd be suprised if it was on Ondra's 'to do ' list.
I don't know about the "official" marker of a downgrade being the topo anymore. Blogs, the 8a.nu database for foreign routes, internet topos and all sorts of other things guide the consensus grade these days way before anyone updates a paper topo.
Let's face it, do you really think anyone is going to take a tick of Pure Imagination as 9a anymore after its been onsighted/flashed by two people who've said its not a terribly hard 8c+? Or the 9a+ now that 4 recent ascentionists have taken 9a? Regardless of the topo grade, they've been downgraded...
You really do insist on completely missing the point in your posts attempting (apparently) to do down trad climbing don't you?
Whether others decide to go with Ondra's/others suggestons is up to them but that is all they are. I don't know how many ascents Pure Imagination has had and what others have said but (speaking generally now) would like to think that consensus' will be arrived at by considering the views of the majority. When considering downgrades I'm not sure an onsight ascent should carry any more weight than a redpointed one for sport routes since they aren't generally graded for any particular type of ascent.
> As its not got a grade,
MacLeod has suggested it as being 8c climbing I think.
is on some rarely in condition
No less so than most other big routes on the Ben.
midge bitten crag
Hardly! Pretty rare not to get any wind up there.
in the middle of less than nowhere
?! One of the finest climbing venues in the country!
Majority implies all views are equal though, which is clearly nonsense. People who have a good volume of Fr9s under their belt have a massively more valid view on top end sport grades than people who have done like 1-2 Fr9s, ditto people who have travelled widely and ticked Fr9s in a variety of places have a massively more valid view on grades than those who have only climbed hard in their local area. Ondra has both in spades.
I'd eat my virtual hat if these "downgrade suggestions" don't reflect/form what will end up as the generally accepted view on the grades of Pure Imagination and Southern Smoke Direct. Golden Ticket is perhaps less certain given he has said hard 8c+...
Golden Ticket was graded 8c+ by Adam Taylor originally, it's grade was only upgraded to 9a by repeaters. So basically, the best climber in the world and the best local climber at the Red River Gorge (and first ascensionist of the route) agree on the grade.
Anything controversial' ;)
> Anything controversial' ;)
And your point is?
No, it shows that at the time Hubble wasn't a style of climbing that suited Ondra. Of course he's older and stronger now.
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