/ New super light sleeping bag.

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ablackett - on 05 Nov 2012
I got hold of a new sleeping bag last week and used it for the OMM. 380g, rated to -5 and packs down to the size of a tin of beans.

It is made by the chaps at H18ORR, http://www.h18orr.com/products/down-sleeping-bag

First bag I have ever had that I would consider sticking in alongside a lightweight bivvy, just in case I got stuck on a route.

Anyone know of anything similar at that price? An outstanding bit of kit.

Andy
Mark / Alps - on 07 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett:
Not as cheap but I really rate the PHD, found it awesome for alpine use.
ablackett - on 08 Nov 2012
In reply to Mark / Alps: Can't argue with that PHD bags are quality kit, but the H18ORR one doesn't feel or look cheaper than the PHD bags and like you say it is cheaper.
lithos on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett:


650 fill power, nuff said in comparison to phd
Nath - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to lithos: +1 your paying for the quality of the down in the bag not just the bag.
CurlyStevo - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett:
I'm doubtfull with 650 fill power that at this weight this bag will be warm to freezing when new never mind after a few years use. I would be highly sceptical regarding extreme ratings I have never managed to get a bag down to anything close to these and actually sleep!

I've got this bad boy:
http://www.ellis-brigham.com/products/phantom-32/1378?gclid=CKWXmM6_wbMCFerItAodi08A9g

When new it was good to freezing but now it's a food few years old more like 3 degrees with clothers on.
galpinos - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett:

Great to see another new company in this area.

Iím not sure they are going to steal PHDís crown but they seem to offer a more budget option. Iíve a Minim 300 with Drishell and itís the muttís nutts (and available in the periodic PHD sale for a decent price).

Out of interest, I canít find a 380g bag anywhere on their site?
Mr Fuller on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett: Careful rating this bag "to -5". This is the Extreme temperature limit and corresponds to a temperature that threatens to survival, rather than a pleasant night's sleep! Keep an eye on UKC in the coming weeks as an article will be going up on this subject, alongside insulation, down fill powers and other stuff...

I'd be sceptical that the stitch-through bags are very warm at all: I'd guess you'd be very very cold in -5 with a 480 g sleeping bag unless you're wearing a shedload of clothing and are lying on a giant down mat. The 650 g bag might be good to +2, but I doubt the stitch through would get below +5. Might be wrong though - I've never seen these bags in the flesh.
sam.sam.sam.ferguson - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to CurlyStevo: I've used the 650 fill h18orr bag and its been great. No issues and warm in all conditions, just used in in France a week or two ago and on dartmoor last weekend.
Highly recommended
CurlyStevo - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to sam.sam.sam.ferguson:
were you using the box wall construction? How cold did you get it down to?
sam.sam.sam.ferguson - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett: yes the box wall construction bag. I have used in font in the summer - was fine there. France later I reckon lowest was 3-5 degrees and dartmoor was colder but still felt toasty in the bag. And I wasn't layered up with loads of cloths just pair of boxers! I can't fault the bags they weigh nothing and do the job.
CurlyStevo - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to sam.sam.sam.ferguson:
Yeah the box wall construction is more believable, it's pretty much the same weight as my bag although lower quality down.
In reply to CurlyStevo: A lot of backpackers seem to be going for quilts these days linked with a good mat. That way you can get ridiculously light "bags" that go below freezing comfortably.

I've been considering getting a really light and compressible down bag for summer use - but keep realising that for anything like an amount I could afford, most of these bags aren't lighter than the Marmot Plasma 15 I have which I've slept in comfortably under the stars at -9! I wish I could afford the Plasma 30 (200grs lighter), as it's big brother is an amazing bag, but unfortunately you really have to pay for that quality!
ablackett - on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to lithos:
> (In reply to ablackett)
>
>
> 650 fill power,

I read somewhere that anything above 650 was a waste of money because the weight of the outer is heavy enough to squash 800 down, down to the size of 650. So you loose the extra fluffyness. Can't find the link now though. Anyone else read this?

To answer someone elses question,I can't find the 380g bag on there either, perhaps mine is 480g. Not sure.

Damo on 09 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett:
> (In reply to lithos)
> [...]
>
> I read somewhere that anything above 650 was a waste of money because the weight of the outer is heavy enough to squash 800 down, down to the size of 650. So you loose the extra fluffyness.

I've heard this and I agree, somewhat. I don't know about it being the weight of the outer, though that might be part of it with some models.

I think just generally sleeping bags, getting compacted and pushed and pulled and squashed and used in the damp and in crowded tents, or sitting up in a bivi etc are often used in non-optimal situations in terms of down distribution. I've no doubt that 800+ down lofts nicer and thus insulates better than 650 when they are laid out in the shop or factory, and is lighter. I have several 800+ bags, used in Antarctica, AK, Karakoram, Tibet, Andes etc. and I'm not about to replace them with a 650 bag for those places.

Only my personal opinion, but I think for having a decent BC or higher camp in a very cold place in a proper tent, then an 800+ bag is worth it. It will be able to be used 'as it should'. For many actual climbing situations, or places less cold, I think the benefits of the 800 will be lost somewhat and a 650 will be fine.

I have a PHD Minim 400 and it's a nice piece of work, but without Drishell I worry about it getting damp, or torn, so it's not very robust and often I find myself not game enough to use it, opting for something a bit less quality but more utilitarian. You won't sleep well if you're constantly worrying about the state of your sleeping bag.
In reply to Damo:
> You won't sleep well if you're constantly worrying about the state of your sleeping bag.

I've worn a zip out on a bag just from over use I guess, but beyond that never 'broken' a sleeping bag in any way. You must uses yours way more than I use mine, but still I'm surprised beyond the getting it wet danger, that it's something you worry about.

The marmot bag I reviewed (link somewhere above) is very very light materials, but I've used it plenty over the last year and half- plenty of nights bivvying for example and its absolutely fine. And with its 900+ (or whatever) fill power, it really is very warm for its weight. If it wasn't for the price I'd recommend it without hesitation, and I'm a bit suspicious about the claim that the down quality doesn't differ that much in warmth.
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Mr Fuller on 11 Nov 2012
In reply to ablackett: This is not true. I have seen no lab-based evidence for this either from EN 13537 or tog testing (or real-life evidence from my own experience). Filling down volumes is not a simple task, but if you were to put 20 g of 800 fp down in a 5 cm high baffle, to get the same thermal resistance from 650 fp down would require about 24 g in the same height baffle. Obviously when you lie on your down it is totally useless, so the stuff underneath you doesn't really matter, but the stuff on top does.

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