UKC

hi all

I am looking to buy a new 4x4 , i have around 6k - 7k to spend , I currently have a landrover freelander and a mk 3 mr2 as a toy..

I would like it to have 7 seats or roomy enough for three child seat in the back , as we have another baby on the way I needs to be capable in bad weather snow.. and we sometimes drive across fields and such when up in the mountains so i want 4x4 ..

I would like it not to break down ever two or three months like the freelander so far i am thinking of either

Mitsubishi showgun (00-07 shape)
or
discovery 2

I went a looked at a shotgun today and seemed good , not looked at a disco yet , any of you own or have owned these or any good recommendations

thanks

In reply to AndyE9: disco with td5 engine are not good

Ok so best to avoid them ??

In reply to AndyE9:

Your budget will buy a good Discovery 2 Td5

Mine is on an x plate, 175 thousand miles on the clock and is the most reliable car I've had

Don't buy a Discovery 1 unless you can weld

In reply to AndyE9:

Honda CRV - bombproof, ok on fuel and with a decent set of AT's they are pretty handy in the crud.

don't get a disco 2 or Freelander as they are old tech and likely to be worn out.

Shogun is fine but can be expensive and they can fail around 60,000 miles (crankshaft i think).

In reply to John Rushby:

Apart from Cuppatea's

or buy my Series III Lightweight and save ££££'s

In reply to John Rushby: CRV isn't a 7 seater though (is it?). I've got an x-trail which does for the off road I need to do (farm and forestry rides) and has an easy clean interior (=plasticy, but practical), but again only 5 seats

In reply to toad:

Not sure - X trail would be other recommendation.

Pathfinder is good but the pre 2006 has the same problem as the Navarra

In reply to John Rushby:

You looking to sell the lightweight John? What's the catch?

I think it will be a case of looking at a few I guess , tho I said 7 seats
I need to be able to fit two child seats , and room for the
14 year old , so needs to be roomy in the back ..

I am going to look at the Honda tomorrow but I think it's ugly..

In reply to Mike C:

hah

None

I just sold the flaming comet of death for Disco.

The Lightweight has a Turner rebuilt engine with 25000 miles on it, new doors, full repaint, new alternater, all the diffs, box and transfer box have been serviced and a new heater motor.

In reply to AndyE9: I had Shogun (interesting fact in the rest of the world it was called the Pajero... which was change for Europe due the Spanish translation).

Good strong car, lazy V6, comfortable, roomy, capable over Aussie outback. Needs decent tyres if going (real) off road. Good in deep-ish water.

Cheers
LD

In reply to Lurking Dave:

Strange!, The Spanish seem to have a lot of words for the same "pastime", like Cayenne, Discovery, X5 (for the more vigorous), Q7, etc.


(Though for once you do seem to be one of the few that has a genuine need of one).

In reply to AndyE9:

You could get a Volvo XC90 for that sort of money....i'm pretty sure some of them would have 7 seats.

In reply to AndyE9: if you can stomach the fuel costs, what about a Land cruiser?

I have a disco 2 td5 which is pretty reliable in my experience so that might be another option. If 7 seats is a deal breaker, you are pretty limited.

In reply to AndyE9:
I had a disco2 TD5 which was brilliant - loads of space on the back seat for 3 adult sized kids (and no transmission tummel so the middle one doesn't have to straddle a hump) - loads of space in the back for anything you could ever want and I regularly got better than 30mpg on runs.
only trouble was, once things start to fail they're bloody expensive.
e.g. Hydraulic pipework running around the car for the suspension - once it goes you're lookng at £800 .
The oil pump drive on my engine sheared and by the time I'd got to the side of the road the engine had seized resulting in a £3000 bill to replace it with a half decent used unit.
oil seal went on the turbo shortly after that again cost a fortune to sort out. Shortly after that we got the octavia.
Still wish i had the disco though.

In reply to John Rushby:
I had to sell my 24v winterised FFR lwt. Missus said I can have a military carawagon when we have money again though.
The Landy stuff you could get for 7k blows my mind!! Why is nobody suggesting defenders or old 110's. You could buy a 110 for 1200 quid then spend 5 grand on fuel

In reply to parberoo:

Just about to launch into replacing both head gaskets on my V8. Unhappy times

In reply to AndyE9:

If you want a reliable 4x4, go Japanese. Warlords in the 'stans etc can't be wrong!

Neil

Today we went out and looked at a few ..

first we looked at the honda cr-v , not got seven seats , doesn't have hi-lo range 4x4 gearbox , felt more like a odd shaped car , liked the inside , but prob don't give me anything extra over my old freelander.

looked at the nissan x-trail , again not a true 4x4 gear box , didn't like the inside , not got the extra seating , prob again don't give me much more than the freelander..

hyundia santa fa , would rather be broken down, pushing my old freelander that owning one of these ..

kia .. again didn't float my boat ..

bmw x5 . more of a chelsea tractor not really my thing , but looked nice , but 4.4 l 16 mpg is just not going to be realistic ..

I did have a quick look at a few others , but wasn't impressed .. I saw another showgun today tho was only the short wheel base , and I think the showgun is looking like the top contender atm , not looked at the disco thats next on the list. my only concern with this is the mpg , as it is listed 32mpg on a run and only 20mpg around town…

In reply to AndyE9:


You're after a 7 seater 'proper' 4X4 and are concerned about low mpg? What you've listed is pretty reasonable for a big 4X4 vehicle which weighs 2 and a half tons. For perspective my 2.6 litre petrol series 3 land rover does 16 mpg and about 18 mpg on a run. You can't have your cake and eat it.

In reply to AndyE9: Have you looked at the Nissan Pathfinder, im sure they have seven seats, and deddinetly have proper 4 wheel drive system but dont think they have a diff lock.

In reply to AndyE9: Be very careful with any Nissans looking cheap with the D22 diesel engine in. These 'magically' die at about 80,000 miles, starts with a loud bottom end knock and quickly ends up throwing a rod. Nissan not in the slightest bit interested in offering help with this problem. Lots of cheap Navaras about for this reason

Thanks for the info on the Nissans , i will prob cross them off my short list ..

I understand that proper 4x4 are going to use more fuel , but the bmw x5 , is looking the worst and the 4.4 petrol being the worst .. also they are not really rugged enough looking for me , more suited for mums and school runs, rather than battling through snow to the mountains ..lol..

In reply to AndyE9:
Have you looked at the Toyota Landcruiser, I've done a lot of off roading in these in very hot and very cold climates and they are super awesome. They certainly have a 7 seat version and a 3.0 diesel. Not sure about economy though, never anything I've had to worry about in Saudi Arabia!

Yes from what i have read the land cruiser is the daddy of them all , and prob because of this they are on the expensive side , a bit out of my budget

In reply to AndyE9: I wouldn't worry about the Nissan pathfinder, it has nothing to do with th d22 navara! The comment above is not relevant, a navara only has 5 seas anyway

In reply to AndyE9:

We had a similar decision to make and ended up with a ssangyong rexton. If you want a 4x4 which also functions as a family transporter it's far cheaper than most alternatives because the badge isn't as desirable. If you want automatic on demand 4x4 rather than part time, you need the sx model.

In reply to AndyE9:

I have a CRV, it will last forever but driving it is like being in a coma. Not convinced it is capable offload, 4x4 kicks in and out with grip but it seems completely foxed by snow and ice.

ok guys a bit of a up date ..

i have ruled the shogun of my list now ..

I was talking to my brother , mentioned i was looking for a new car , said i had looked at the shogun , his response was " are they the one all the pikeys have to pull their caravans " I respond with "no i don't think so " his response was " you know they fu**ing are , are you getting a caravan too ? "

He then recommended me to look at the bmw x5 , he claimed it to be the best car he owned , apart from his current one.. lol..

so I am off to look at the X5 tomorrow , i know they have high fuel costs , but then the shogun would have , for what i have read the 3.0D is the most economical with 32 mpg on a run and 22 round town .. the 4.8 v8 is the worst at around 20mpg on a run and 15 round town .. the 4.4 v8 give around 20 round town and 25 isn on a run … will look in to this more , tho i might live to regret it , I would love to have the v8 i have always loved the v8 sound as luck has it the v8 happens to be the cheapest to pick up , can only be because most sane people are down sizing , but then most sane people don't dangle off ice covered mountains ..lol

if ant of you have had a X5 , or even a v8 , would be interested in your experiences …

In reply to AndyE9: I could be wrong and have never looked underneath one, but i can imagine them having low ground clearance being a sports active vehicle rather than a utility? They may still get the same job done, but i wouldn't want to risk damaging the underside of one of them going through fields especially if the tracks your in have been made by a defender etc?

In reply to AndyE9: youtube.com/watch?v=N_RVaFXsu9U&

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tE728YH5oA&feature=related

They look like chocolate fireguards to me! I know the videos could have a complete idiot behind the wheel, but even my old £500 suzuki with open diffs would not get that stuck so easy!

In reply to AndyE9:

I have a Mitsubishi Delica its a seven seater, Has tons of room in the back for kit they have the option of driving in 2wd with all the kit that a full on 4wd has so snows no problem.
For the sort of cash you have, you could get a bloody good one. If you do get one join the owners club and you get a discount on insurance

In reply to AndyE9: The X5 is an utter joke off road and a liability in the snow. That defeats a large part of why you are going 4x4 doesn't it?

In reply to happy_c:

Lots of videos there "X5 stuck..."

In reply to AndyE9:

You were talked out of looking at a shogun because your brother said you'll look like a pikey? In which case, you'll look like a tw*t if you get an X5. That should be sufficient to talk you out of it.

P.S. most pikeys I've seen use transits to pull their caravans.

In reply to AndyE9:

I've got a Nissan Pathfinder. Had it since 33,000 miles, now on 91,000. Averaging 31-32mpg. It's got 7 seats, has got me everywhere I've needed it to in comfort (including Scottish ski resorts in winter when other cars have been turned back by road conditions), and has been reasonable in terms of repair bills and other running costs (I've previously owned a Saab 9-5 and that was more expensive to run). I'd have no hesitations recommending one.

In reply to AndyE9:

X5 possibly the worst 4x4 ever .. Only good for school runs and going up on kurbs..I know afew people who have had them and they all say the same, Inside they are nice but as a 4x4 utter turd..

In reply to pauldr:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by8_d3tYaMQ&playnext=1&list=PLC2E758...

In reply to pauldr: AWESOME vehicle! Guy a know used one for shooting out of as it had a swivel chair, then he'd fold the seats and it was a bed (with pillows!)

Although i think the 2.8 isn't the greatest on fuel but if you had that thing, who cares!

In reply to happy_c:

I got one afew months ago.. its ace, aswell as having a great 4x4 im getting fitter because i carnt aford the fuel i use my bike more

In reply to pauldr:

I know what you mean i bought a freelander with 154k on the speedo for scrap price a few years ago and as soon as i fix something the next thing lets go, general transmission, mountings, viscous coupling, ird, hydraulic clutch, power steering pump, drive belts, tyres, discs, drums, downpipe, turbo journal bearing and comp wheel cycle fatigue sort of stuff, the last one was about the best, its been grumbling for a while so i do the usual and turn the stereo up and think its a landy they don't break down just go into limp mode, so then there's a big clank underneath it, i think sounds like a prop shaft, so i look out of the window and there goes the front section of prop spinning over the deepcar road, so i put my foot down a little and there's still drive out of the front box so i keep on trucking.

In my silly little dreamworld this is like the starship enterprise, she canna take no more captain I've got to dump the front prop and on she plods, popped a wheel bearing well that probably went around the time of that sprint across the somme chasing for the afternoon ferry last summer on the way back from the alps.

But like you say never been so fit push iron keeps on rolling.

In reply to AndyE9: I had a Disco II but I didn't really get on with it. Then got a Landcruiser for 6k;loved it! Felt like I could go anywhere and frequently did. I had a job which meant I had to go off road regularly. Now I have a Toyota HiLux for work which I think shares some of the same mechanicals. I use it for proper off road stuff 4 days out of 5 and its excellent. We also have a CR-V - just dont go there. They are not a 4x4. featuresforfeet has it right.

In reply to johnj:

yes my freelander has caused me so much trouble .. since i bought it I have replaced , the prop shaft ,Vc unit , ird unit , gearbox , rear diff , wheel bearings, lower ball joints , water pump , clutch , cat , lamb sensor , rear window opener , exhaust mounts , tyres , break pads , cam belt , ….

I'm sure theres more , but can't remember .lol been so much stuff … I would honestly never ever buy another freelander , and would others to avoid them ..


ok update on the new car front …

I am not that shallow to be put of a car totally because I'm told its used by pikeys .lol.. but I do listen to peoples suggestions..
I sat down with the wife , and discussed what we really needed , over the last year or two, we have never really "off roared " was good having the 4x4 in the snow and on some of the farmers fields when away camping, was handy in some really steep hills too , but the freelander was never out of its depth , and would prob of managed in a car , truth to be told.. I don't intend to pull a caravan/trailer/boat or such either …

what I need is to have ample room for kit , the family and the dog , when we go away , I would really like to be able to drive at 70mph without the engine screaming for another gear , to be comfortable for the up and coming 545 mile scotland trip , I would like it to be a bit more refined than the freelander and not to mention not letting me down so much , and to have a heater and rear window heater that works..lol .. on top of this I would still benefit from a 4x4 tho not necessarily having a dedicated hi-low box as I don't intend to go out of my way off roading but just able to cope better than 2 wheel drive in the snow, climbing hills and the odd field .. 98% of the time will be road use I'm guessing ..

so rather than getting a super 4x4 which is ok on the road , i think I'm going to look at a 4x4 which is ok with mild off road , but is good on road and ticks the other boxes ..

i am going to look at today , the Rav 4 (but looks a bit small) , bmw X5 , bmw x3 , another Kia , will look at the Suzuki vitara , Will have another look and the honda but really didn't like the gear stick poking out the dash…

anything else I should try and look at before I go out… thanks guys , you have all been helpful

In reply to AndyE9:

Sounds like a big estate car with 4wd would be more suitable. Subaru, Volvo, skoda etc all do estates with 4wd. We would have got an estate but we needed to tow a horse box so we bought a rexton.

Hi Andy,

I have the 07 (old shape) Mitsubishi L200 (Pick-up with a to box)
it's the commercial version of the Shogun
It's a great vheicle but quite thirsty

I understand that the Nivaria and the new shape L200 are alot more fuel efficient and have a six speed gear box. I'm not sure if either of these are offered as a 7 seater

good luck
Richard

i don't want an estate , i don't like them …

looked at a few crew cab style trucks , but the wife didn't like them ..

I think i have fund it …

I have seen a BMW X5 , which has 70k mile , and is in show room con , with full bmw history , has all the extras , and looked really nice, all the keys, everything is in order , the wife liked it too .. will give me part ex on my toyota sports car …

i think this could be the one , might leave my old landy in the garage as a backup lol.. i am never going to be able to get anywhere near what i spent on it …

lol.. the searching might be over .. I know there not great off roaders but I'm not going out of my way to off road… will think it over today ..

In reply to AndyE9:

Get an old Audi with a Quattro system.

My old A3 could do anything I wanted it to. Drive on the outside lanes of the dualler where noone else would go with the snow, I swear I could have attached a plough blade to the front and cleared the roads if I needed it to. I pulled people out of ditches with it. This was with all season tyres on it.

But I binned it, and now have a Kia Sportage (3rd Gen) and it's yet to prove itself in the snow. But I have got winter tyres sitting in the shed waiting to go on.

In reply to AndyE9: Mitsubishi Outlander? 7 seats, lots of kit, reasonably bombproof (and cheap).

Our lass has the smaller ASX whicu she really likes, but might get her the Outlander for the bigger boot and occasional 7 seats.

In reply to AndyE9:

Make sure you come back and tell us what a bad decision it was after we've had a few flakes of snow

I had an audi A3 , and agree it was a great car , only problem is its too small , small back seats , and a small size boot that I think we would struggle with ..

have not been able to find many kia's so haven't been able to give them a good going over the one i did see was a bit tatty …


was wondering if any of you have used those used car warrantees , like AA , or warranties direct , are they any good or not , i just don't want to end up with another lemon …

In reply to AndyE9: How about the Volkswagen Touareg or Volvo XC90?

In reply to Hugh J:

An X5!!!!!!!!! You are joking? I stand corrected then!

In reply to Hugh J:

When Charlie Boorman did his Paris-Dakar rally on a BMW bike they used a couple of X5's for use as his support vehicles. They were useless ...

http://www.bmwland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=318287
http://wikicars.org/en/BMW_X5#Design_quirks_and_oddities
http://www.discoweb.org/forums/showpost.php?s=9e2a2a172c884fd2533de148f0db7...

The official BMW team were using X5's which were actually an X5 shell over essentially an entirely different car.

I'd caution you against taking the X5 anywhere which isn't tarmac unless you can get decent tyres for it. It's likely to come with some very road specific tyres which will be mince on most other conditions.