/ So was Che a homophobe?

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confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
Forgive my ignorance - I'm finding it hard to find unbiased sources. I thought that Mr Guevara wasn't a particularly nice guy. This is the case, right? Into homophobia, racism, sexism etc..?

Or have I succumb to propaganda?
Whaddaya think?

Cuddles y'all =-)
ena sharples - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating: evidence, please.
In reply to confusicating: Cool T-shirt though...
mikekeswick - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating: How are you actually going to know without talking to him? Anything else would just be somebody else veiw and a definative answer is unlikely to be reached....
thegoatstroker - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating: revolutionary or not it may be a bit harsh to judge him on those attitudes given the era and culture he is from.

My 84 yr old nans an awful racist despite being in the woodcraft folk as a child.
I still love her mind
Trangia - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating:

He was a pretty unsuccessful revolutionary too, and got himself captured abd executed - just happened to have good publicity agents with a fettish fot "T" shirts and posters.
winhill - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating:

Meh.

Churchill invented concentration camps, released the Black and Tans in Ireland and wanted to poison gas the Kurds (the RAF did the deed).

Also he was ginger.

But then he saved the world from fascism.

What you gonna do though?
davidbeynon - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating:

He was a nasty piece of work, and the people who buy the t-shirts are either really into people executing civilians or idiots who don't do their research.

davidbeynon - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to davidbeynon:

And as Trangia said, an incompetent revolutionary. Aim higher.
Wonko The Sane - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating: The honest truth is, you already succumbed to the propoganda, and now possibly learning some of the more 'real' history.


Rarely is anyone all good or all bad.

And he was a product of his time and upbringing. So highly likely he was both racist and sexist.
nw - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Trangia:
> (In reply to confusicating)
>
> He was a pretty unsuccessful revolutionary too, and got himself captured abd executed - just happened to have good publicity agents with a fettish fot "T" shirts and posters.
I dunno, Cuba worked out quite well.
Kemics - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to winhill:
> (In reply to confusicating)
>
> Meh.
>
> Churchill invented concentration camps

....really? Going to have to call b-s on that one. The first concentration camps were used in the Boer war I think. And while Churchill was there, it was in the role of war correspondent (had to wikipedia this bit) doesn't mention he had anything to do with concentration camps?
Trangia - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Kemics:

You are right, it certainly wasn't Churchill. I'm not certain who actually "invented" concentration camps for the displaced Boer families, but it was under the leadership of General Roberts the C in C during the latter part of the Second Anglo-Boer War.

These camps bercame imfamous for overcrowding and high mortality rates from cholera.
Rob Exile Ward on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Trangia: It was Kitchener, I think. A N Wilson describes him as a 'cruel b*gger - literally'.
Trangia - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

You are right it was Kitchener

http://angloboer.com/crimes.htm

I've been to the site of the site of the concentration camp near Bloemfontein - not a place to make you feel "proud to be British"
Jiduvah - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Trangia: Unsuccessful?

"A revolutionary is a person who either actively participates in, or advocates revolution"

He didn't just participate or advocate, he was a huge factor in actually revolutionising a country. He did try in other countries and failed, but there can't be too many people who revolutionised a country so he must be massively successful.
Rampikino - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Trangia:

Che was quite the fan of executing captured prisoners too.
tommycoopersghost on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating:

Che did imprison and or kill people for being gay. And also for being a member of a trade union. Thatcher would have loved him!
dunc56 - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating: You are such a drama queen :)
mag_to_grid - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to confusicating:

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Look at the way in which certain Americans have viewed the likes of PIRA etc
confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to ena sharples:

Well, that's the thing. I've never known much about the cuban revolution past what we learnt in A-level history. So I didn't have an opinion on him. But I was talking to a friend the other day who was singing his praises, which confused me as I though (from what I have heard/read) that he was the above.

But it is hard to get evidence because of the pedestal in which people seemed to have placed him. (His face everywhere, etc).

So that was my question, is there any concrete evidence. I know there are a few documented quotes of him sounding pretty homophobic and racist, but that's about as far as I could find. A trip to the library is needed maybe.
Kipper - on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Kemics:
>
> ....the Boer war I think. And while Churchill was there, it was in the role of war correspondent ...

And imprisoned at my school for his sins.

confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to mikekeswick:

I both agree and disagree. I think that there is sometimes sufficient documented evidence to reach a quite-certain conclusion, but I recognize that there is no way of 100% knowing.
confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to thegoatstroker:

Whereas my 80y.o. nan isn't despite coming from a small town in north wales.

I know that it is sometimes wrong to judge the past with our values, but at the same time independent and free thinkers constantly question things and opinions of the masses. Especially if they're a revolutionary, right?

Also, it wasn't so long ago. No excuses.
confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to davidbeynon:

I'm not aiming anywhere, just wondering if anyone had any source they considered reliable. =-)
confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to Wonko The Sane:

I didn't have an opinion of as a 'good guy' ever. I've always thought he wasn't. But when asked to back up my claims (those above) I couldn't find any sources I'd happily rely upon.

Just because you are brought up in a culture it doesn't mean it's ok not to think about the implications of it.
confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to moraldecay:

Do you have a source, please? That's what I'm after! Thanks!
ads.ukclimbing.com
confusicating on 15 Nov 2012
In reply to dunc56:

Why, please?

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