/ Mirrorless Cameras
Seems relatively cheap and it's APC so it should be decent enough. Mainly worried about the autofocus, is it any good on mirrorless cameras yet?
I wouldn't go for APS-C if it's primarily small you're after, because the lenses will be the same size as APS-C Dslrs. m4/3 has 2 tricks for reducing lens sizes - smaller sensor and software fixing of geometric distortion built into the spec.
Having said that these Sony NEX things seem to have more than stellar sensors on them if you can put up with the lens choices. I think Mr Craggs has one.
Re your AF query, Contrast Detect Autofocus used by mirrorless systems is very fast and accurate for the vast majority of stuff, but still poor for C-AF fast action.
I'm coming from FX so APC is small enough - mainly just bored or carry heavy stuff around :-P The lenses can be smaller because they don't have to be retro focus I guess.
I looked at the Nikon J2 but haven't even seen one in the shops and the sensor being that much smaller put me off. The AF sounds good though. Hmmm. 4/3rds cameras kind of put me off because they seem either plasticy or faux-retro, neither are things I like really. Ok I think I've convinced myself, cheers :-P
Can second the comment about the sensors on the NEX. They are outstanding.
To be honest I wish I had bought one of those instead of my D7K.
So, trying to keep quality to a reasonable level but still with a compact camera size in mind it ended up being a fight between the Nikon D3200 and the Sony Alpha 37.
The Sony won in the end, mostly because it's a bit cheaper. The EOS-M looks great, but slightly too expensive for my purposes. I doubt that many here have actually used one: it's not been out long. But it may well be the ultimate travel camera (for now).
I have been stunned by the images from the NEX-7, despite being a sceptic initially. Just waiting for a lower-profile lens to come on the market, later this month I think, then it will be really portable.
If you want to just dip your toe in, try a Panasonic GF (1, 2 or 3). They go at reasonable prices on Ebay and seem to be holding value.
I use a 2nd hand GF-1 with 20mm (this lens quite expensive, even 2nd hand) as my pocket cameras and it still holds it own with IQ (at base ISO). Friends use GF-1 with kit zoonm and seem happy enough.
I have the same feeling about my Sony sensored E-M5. And I don't have a problem with the noise, this "4/3 so it's too noisy" is way overstated. More to do with early Panny sensors I think. It's the small body/lens combo's I really like over the APS-C offerings.
This shot of a church concert sums it up in a way, there was no photography during the performance. I used the TINY 45mm f1.8 on my E_M5, everything set to silent and no AF assist light. Camera sat on knee with LCD flipped out, ISO 3200/f1.8, rubbish ambient light, unassisted AF was really fast and accurate. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8198886943_caffa2cd13_o.jpg
I have't actively used any of these (sorry!) to take pictures with but I was having a look at them in a shop this weekend and was really struck by the quality of the interfaces(both ergonomics and software). I thought the Canon would be really hard to use because they've really gone for a small size on the body and are very minimalist with the buttons etc. The Sony units have a slightly bigger body which felt much nicer and gives the oppertunity to place the controls in a more natural locations on the body. The extra size of the Sony didn't seem like much of a compromise in the end bacause it's the lenses that dominates the pack size.
Hope this helps,
> This shot of a church concert sums it up in a way, there was no photography during the performance. I used the TINY 45mm f1.8 on my E_M5, everything set to silent and no AF assist light. Camera sat on knee with LCD flipped out, ISO 3200/f1.8, rubbish ambient light, unassisted AF was really fast and accurate. http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8059/8198886943_caffa2cd13_o.jpg
It's a good shot, but the Panasonic I mentioned as being too noisy has a sensor much smaller than four thirds (1/2.3"). The problem I have with noise is that the photo looks OK until you crop it, and then you start to get an irritating fuzziness creeping in. That really interferes with some shots, particularly a landscape.
It's a bit like when people used to argue that you don't need more pixels on a sensor, because (say) 10MP is enough to print out to A3 size (or whatever the guideline is). Yes, but if you crop out half of the shot you only have 5MP and the resolution is noticeably weak at that level. Nikons' D3200 has 24MP: which sounds like overkill. But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. That's like having an extra 100% telephoto zoom available on a 12MP camera, whilst at the same time having the wider angle available for improvements to the composition.
Remember the OP !
...."I'm after a little travel camera".....
... But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. ...
Er, if you mean crop half the height and width. I think you'd get 6MP.
Nobody's arguing with the rest other than this a small cameras thread ;)
> ... But from this you can crop by 50% and still have 12MP resolution. ...
> Er, if you mean crop half the height and width. I think you'd get 6MP.
> Nobody's arguing with the rest other than this a small cameras thread ;)
Well any mirrorless is small enough, I mean small compared to a D4/24-70 :-P
"And I'm talking about small cameras, but the OP mentioned APS-C so they aren't going to be REALLY small cameras!"
The EOS M, seems to be smaller than a few 4/3rds camera strangely. I'd only really use the 22mm so lenses aren't an issue I guess.
Arrgh, going to have to find a shop selling them somewhere, there's too much choice.
That Panny 20mm pancake is supposed to be an absolute gem, particularly on the Panny bodies.
It is - I've got one. The detail it can get (especially noticeable in portraits) can match my DSLR with L lenses.
That's quite something then! Recently saw a mates portrait session taken with the 50 f1.4 on 5d111, incredibly sharp! Like MF quality.
....quickly adds that its not a new generation DSLR before the pixel peepers demand proof!!....
> ....quickly adds that its not a new generation DSLR before the pixel peepers demand proof!!....
Yup! A never ending treadmill of 'improving' digicams. Pity I cant see a corresponding increase in my photography?! :-)
Craig Mod's Field Test swung it for me and I've been very happy with my purchase.
Cass Gilbert also uses one and is very happy with his, check his blog: whileoutriding.com
> Arrgh, going to have to find a shop selling them somewhere, there's too much choice.
Jessops have them if you want a feel of it. Autofocus is meant to be pretty slow but pictures good and very good for video
Why has the Samsung NX20 been missed out on the last. I played with one today, by far the easiest to use with the controls being identical to a DSLR I.e. rollers instead of going in to menu function. What is the catch with the Samsung? Jessops even offer a free Samsung tablet with one.
Yeah I went for the Canon M. I went to Jessops to look at the Sony NEX as it was on sale there, but the guy was so adament that the EOS M was total rubbish and one of the worst cameras ever made, that I had to get one if only to try it out :-P
Didn't get it there though as it was nearly £500 more expensive in Jessops than I could get it online - I'm not joking! I got the two lenses, spare battery and a flash, I'll have it in a couple of days.
Hi Richard, where did you get it from btw? I'm toying with it myself.
I recently bought an NEX 5N (to replace a Canon 450D DSLR which was just to big) and have been utterly blown away so far.
There's loads of independent reviews online, have a google.
Seriously impressive bit of kit for the money and fits nicely in a little holster on my pack or belt - just what I needed.
> I recently bought an NEX 5N (to replace a Canon 450D DSLR which was just to big) and have been utterly blown away so far.
> There's loads of independent reviews online, have a google.
> Seriously impressive bit of kit for the money and fits nicely in a little holster on my pack or belt - just what I needed.
I am leaning towards the NX5 too. The Canon would be nice but I think it would end up costing me more in the long run with adapters etc.
Myth mentioned the Samsung NX20, jessops seem to be doings a good deal on these are the moment £719 with 2 lenses and a free tablet. Anyone used a Samsung, deal seems too good to be true?
To avoid angering the UKC gods, you have mail.
This is a crop (>50%) of an image from the NEX-7:
As I said - astounding!
That is amazing Chris, for a 50% crop. What lens you have? And what is the one you're waiting for?
The relative lens size is what has put me off these cams so far, for climbing purposes.
That shot is taken with the 'kit' (joke!) 18-55mm (28-80 equiv) which as you suggest is a pretty bulky (a lot smaller than a DSLR mind.
They are producing a 14-50 power zoom some time soon that looks about half the size - could be ideal.
Thought you was going to say it was with the fancy Carl zeiss lens..
Pretty impressive with the 18/55
> Thought you was going to say it was with the fancy Carl zeiss lens..
> Pretty impressive with the 18/55
Also no sharpening involved, just lens correction/chromic aberration fettled in Lightroom.
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