/ If Britain Left the EU....

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What would the immigration status be of all the people working here from EU states? And, equally, for Brits working in EU states now?
dale1968 - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: who cares?
Sir Chasm - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to dale1968: Foreigners working here and Brits working elsewhere in the EU.
To StG, it would be negotiable and it would be negotiable.
Al Evans on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Actually Brits living in the EU states like Spain have no more rights than they had before the EU, it's only the UK that gives other members free healthcare etc.
In reply to Al Evans: I was thinking about simple immigration status - staying in the country or not.
In reply to dale1968:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) who cares?

You seem very angry.
yorkshireman - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Al Evans:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) Actually Brits living in the EU states like Spain have no more rights than they had before the EU, it's only the UK that gives other members free healthcare etc.

Only because the NHS is free at the point of need (generally).

As was mentioned, as a UK citizen living and working in another EU country, I'm extremely grateful that I have freedom to move here, live here, and look for a job here with a minimum of hassle.

I own a home in France, and live in it, and work for a French company. I don't expect to leave anytime soon, and so for me British EU membership is a good thing.

It was a valid question by the OP - would we all be expected to move home and reapply? Or be forced to apply to be naturalised?
andic - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I would hope that retrospective visas would be arranged for workers already in positions in foreign countries, and that we could have mutual tourist visa waivers etc as we do with quite a lot of countries already.

I expect that the EU would try to punish HMG by sending home all British workers, who, mad as hell would eviscerate the Government at the next election and elect a party on a re-join the EU ticket, only this time we would be compelled to join the Euro as a condition of joining
silhouette - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: A naughtly troublemaker of a journo did suggest the other day that the first country to leave the EU could be The Kingdom of Scotland (scenario being that Scotland, having chosen independence, would "need" to apply for EU membership and could decide "Nah, think we'll stay out ta"). I couldn't possibly comment.
Philip on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to silhouette:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) A naughtly troublemaker of a journo did suggest the other day that the first country to leave the EU could be The Kingdom of Scotland (scenario being that Scotland, having chosen independence, would "need" to apply for EU membership and could decide "Nah, think we'll stay out ta"). I couldn't possibly comment.

Really. If Scotland left the UK they would certainly need the EU. They'd probably be the first 3rd world country in Europe, the EU would probably refuse them entry.
Wonko The Sane - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to yorkshireman: Is it not the same in France? A friend of mine was seriously injured while in France many years ago, I went over for a week and brought him back with his parents, don't remember any bill?
EeeByGum - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> What would the immigration status be of all the people working here from EU states? And, equally, for Brits working in EU states now?

No one knows. It would all be up for grabs. Can't see it happening though, even if UKIP came to power. They would suddenly realise that you can't cut though cables without causing major problems.
Al Evans on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
> (In reply to yorkshireman) Is it not the same in France? A friend of mine was seriously injured while in France many years ago, I went over for a week and brought him back with his parents, don't remember any bill?

You get free emergency treatment, but nothing comparable to the NHS is free
Al Evans on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Philip:
> (In reply to silhouette)
> [...]
>
> Really. If Scotland left the UK they would certainly need the EU. They'd probably be the first 3rd world country in Europe, the EU would probably refuse them entry.

Yep, they would be potentially another Greece, but because they are part of the UK at the moment they wouldn't be able to lie about their financial situation.
yorkshireman - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Wonko The Sane:
> (In reply to yorkshireman) Is it not the same in France? A friend of mine was seriously injured while in France many years ago, I went over for a week and brought him back with his parents, don't remember any bill?

Healthcare isn't 'free' in France, but it gets reimbursed by the government. Depending on a whole load of bureaucratic stuff, a certain percentage. Its not like the US, they let you go home without paying, and send you a bill later.

My wife broke her leg straight after we got here and we've been billed about 2000. We didn't have our health insurance in place but its all being reimbursed via EHIC.





fraserbarrett - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Philip:

What with all the north sea oil tax revenue? At one point in the 80's (before the oil revenue started to reduce), we would have been one of the richest countries in the world (per capita).... Even now we'd have a budget SURPLUS of 4.4bn (even with free universities etc).
cragtaff - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Bloody hell! You can deduce that from two words on paper? That is really impressive!
In reply to Al Evans:
> Actually Brits living in the EU states like Spain have no more rights than they had before the EU, it's only the UK that gives other members free healthcare etc.

I have no idea whether that's true of Spain but its bollocks for many other EU countries.
Neil Williams - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to TobyA:

We differ from most of the rest of the EU in that our healthcare system is entirely funded by general taxation, whereas most of theirs are health insurance based. However, they are social insurance schemes based on the ability to pay, not the commercial type system in the US.

So they are administratively different from us, but in practice not very different in what they deliver.

Neil
DaveN - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to dale1968:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) who cares?

You do, at least enough to spend time reading and replying to thread.
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In reply to Neil Williams: I'm a bit confused by who "we", "us" and "theirs" refers to. Al is in Spain, I am in Finland, and I don't know where you are or where you're from - some part of the UK presumably?

But I know how the NHS is funded, and a bit about the healthcare systems of some other European countries. But Al's point seemed to be wider - about all "rights" that are inherent in the EU treaties, and its on those that he's wrong, at least in many cases. I have no idea if Brits had a right to residency and employment in Spain before the the TEU - perhaps there was some bilateral agreement although I'd be surprised.
Vagabundo Vertical on 22 Nov 2012 - cpc20-harb8-2-0-cust282.perr.cable.virginmedia.com
In reply to Al Evans: You have not got a clue of what you are talking about. British citizens as other citizens from EU countries (apart from the latest countries to join the EU like Romania and Bulgaria to quote two of them) have the same free access to health care and and have the same rights to work in Spain than Spanish citizens. Get things right before you start blathering away.
Is it just me or there is a stink of bigotry in some of the statements jot down around this subject in ukclimbing's forums?
Simon4 - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Vagabundo Vertical:

> Is it just me or there is a stink of bigotry in some of the statements jot down around this subject in ukclimbing's forums?

It is just you.

Bigotry does not mean "people with different opinions to mine", nor is the expression of those opinions "a rant". The misuse of words in this way renders them meaningless and childish insults.
In reply to Simon4: Did you read the first reply? I suspect that had a whiff of bigotry about it...
In reply to Simon4:
> The misuse of words in this way renders them meaningless and childish insults.

At least you managed to avoid calling him a Guardian reader or some such as you normally do.
Bruce Hooker - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Neil Williams:

That's quite true as far as France is concerned, although it is only recently that health insurance cover has become available for those not "in the system", those working pay national insurance taken straight from your pay. There is no NHS system as such but a national insurance scheme completed by private insurance schemes. For the latter if you are employed then the company pays half and you pay half but when you retire or are self employed you have to fork out yourself. Major illness like cancer is covered at 100% by the state scheme. Big teaching hospitals are state run but there are a lot of private clinics, laboratories, ambulances etc are private and doctors are all liberal professionals.

I works fairly well but it's a bit of a nightmare for those not used to bureaucracy though.
Cuthbert on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Philip:

Complete and utter tosh. Once the UK leaves the EU, which it probably will, and Scotland is independent, which it probably will be, England will have the glorious isolation it craves.
winhill - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to Al Evans)
> [...]
>
> I have no idea whether that's true of Spain but its bollocks for many other EU countries.

My daughter got taken to hospital by ambulance in Germany. The EHIC covered the treatment but not the ambulance ride. They sent her a bill for a few hundred euros.

She has to pay it and then get reimbursed by the NHS. Bizarrely bureaucratic and counter productive but thems the rules.
stroppygob - on 22 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> (In reply to Simon4) Did you read the first reply? I suspect that had a whiff of bigotry about it...

No it didn't. It was a plain "who cares."

I for one would love to see the UK get out of the EU, the sooner the better. As for immigration status, I'm sure the fine print can be worked out.

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