/ Who's Your Choice.....?

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coinneach - on 26 Nov 2012
Here are the Offishul candidates for the big sporting prize..........................Who ticks all your boxes?


And why.....?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sports-personality/20467299
Ava Adore - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

For me it would be either Wiggo or Ellie Simmonds. Amazing list this year though.
bobbybin - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach: No Laura Trott. and why has that annoying Ellie Simmonds been nominated, dont think Kath Grainger should be there either.

Its got to be Mo or Wiggo for me.
In reply to bobbybin: Ellie Simmonds has got the heart of a lion.
Horse on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

How disappointing, I was expecting a discussion of who would be in charge of spoon stirring come next March. Should be a shoe in for Mallet given his spoon collection with Italy.

To the real question, too close to call but I'd give it to Mo.
In reply to coinneach: Oh, and Brad gets my vote. I'd go Brad, Mo, Jess.
Robert Durran - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

There are only four there with any chance at all (though a surprisingly large number of people take an interest in golf.....)

I hope it is Mo Farrah, but it will proabably be Wiggins.
Tall Clare - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

But... but where's John Terry?

<looks crestfallen>
<trudges off>
coinneach - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Lots of choices


But no whys..................?
Caralynh - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

I'd like to see either
Bradley Wiggins
David Weir
or Jess Ennis.

No real rationale behind it.
bobbybin - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Its about sporting performance for me, she races in one of gods knows how many categories against people with either no arms or legs.
coinneach - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to Tall Clare:

John Terry and Rafa Benitez get my votes for the "Thickest Skin" award
Mike C on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

Wiggins or Murray, for their Olympic success & non Olympic breakthrough success. No contest really.
coinneach - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to Horse:

For spoon stirring..................?

I'd have Lineen as interim coach for the 6 Nations with a full time position on offer for anything better than a 3rd or 4th place finish.
In reply to bobbybin:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) Its about sporting performance for me, she races in one of gods knows how many categories against people with either no arms or legs.

While I agree that disability sport is blighted by the categorisation issue, Ellie Simmonds appears to me to be at the harsh end of her category i.e. the people she competes against are less disabled than her.
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity)
>
> Lots of choices
>
>
> But no whys..................?

OK - Dennis Wise
bobbybin - on 26 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: How she can get nominated over Laura Trott beggers belief. Same with Kath Grainger and even Jess Ennis.
In reply to bobbybin: Sarah Storey is the surprise omission imo.
Wide_Mouth_Frog - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike C:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> Wiggins or Murray, for their Olympic success & non Olympic breakthrough success. No contest really.

+1
tony on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
> (In reply to bobbybin) Sarah Storey is the surprise omission imo.

Do you mean the surprise inclusion - she's on the list.

I'd go for Jess Ennis - I reckon it'll be a top three of Ennis, Farah and Wiggins, but not necessarily in that order. It's the best list for ages.
Radioactiveman - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

Tempted to say wiggo for raising the profile of british cyclists, but the award title is sports personality and hes is a bit of a grumpy bugger so my vote would go to Mo or Jess
Enty - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

1. Wiggins
2. Farah
3. Ennis

In terms of pure achievement - Wiggins by a mile (and he's got a personality)
If Brits viewed sport like most Europeans do there wouldn't even be a competition, Wiggo would get 99% of the vote and the rest would share the 1%.

I wouldn't be miffed if Mo got it though - he's ace.

E
Enty - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Radioactiveman:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> hes is a bit of a grumpy bugger

Funny that, I think he's got the biggest personality of anyone on the list.

E

winhill - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

It really ought to be Wiggins for services to facial hair plus he's won loads of stuff.

But surely Cav last year will make that unlikely?

Mo and Ennis did well to peak at the right time but surely longevity is more impressive.

So Ainslie, except Sailing isn't really a sport and keeping pyhsically at your best like Wiggo is surely a bit different to messing about on your arse in boats for a long time.
ripper - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach: Brad for me - just is.
Kemics - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

Got to be Wiggo as he's easily the best personality. Dry/self deprecating sense of humour and ridiculous facial hair. And a true sports man when he slowed the pace on the tour to let a rider catch up who had a flat.
alanw - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach: Not the most popular sport on here, but I reckon Rory should at least be in the mix. Five (I think) tournament wins including his second major. Topped the money lists in US and Europe (only second to do this I think). Played his part in Ryder Cup win and ended the year well clear as the world number one. Has achieved more at a young age than all but a few Brits have managed over a career and still seems to be a decent bloke.

That said, I'd give it to Wiggo. Beating the French at their own game is priceless.
elsewhere on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:
Wiggins or Wier
ti_pin_man - on 27 Nov 2012
Brad, the winning of the tour by a Brit whipes the floor with olympic golds... but I would say that as a cyclist.
The Lemming - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

I'm going to go for Murray or Wiggins.

But I have to ask why no footballers?
Could it be that with the world stage of the Olympics people realised that footballers are just spectacularly over paid schoolboys chasing skirts and inflated bladders of air?

And where is Queen Victoria in all this?
Probably discounted as she's on Strictly
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The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to The Lemming:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> I'm going to go for Murray or Wiggins.
>
> But I have to ask why no footballers?
> Could it be that with the world stage of the Olympics people realised that footballers are just spectacularly over paid schoolboys chasing skirts and inflated bladders of air?

Or more fairly, that footballers rarely do well in SPOTY, largely because it is a team sport with partisan support, it is an Olympic year, a very good one at that and finally there hasn't been an individual British footballer that has captured the publics imagination.

> And where is Queen Victoria in all this?
> Probably discounted as she's on Strictly

Given that double gold medalists lost out (Kenny, Trott, Du Jardin) it is hardly surprising that she wasn't nominated in the toughest competition ever.

The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to bobbybin:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) Its about sporting performance for me, she races in one of gods knows how many categories against people with either no arms or legs.

Its OK to say you don't understand the Paralympic classification system, it is less OK to dismiss the sporting performance because you don't understand it.
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to ti_pin_man:
> Brad, the winning of the tour by a Brit whipes the floor with olympic golds... but I would say that as a cyclist.

But he gets three more chance to win the tour before anyone gets another chance at Olympic Gold (and I know he got Olympic Gold too but that doesn't really compare with Mo Farrah's double)
The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Prior to this year Brits have had 98 opportunities to win the Tour, but haven't. I am a huge fan of Farah, I think it should be Wiggins.
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Prior to this year Brits have had 98 opportunities to win the Tour, but haven't.

But that says nothing about Wiggins (just how useless Brits have been in the past).
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to bobbybin)
>
> Its OK to say you don't understand the Paralympic classification system, it is less OK to dismiss the sporting performance because you don't understand it.

I don't think that's the point. Unfortunately (without wanting to take anything away from their efforts) paralympians are often competing in small categories against limited opposition. If you are unfortunate to have no legs, I suspect it is easier to win paralympic 100m gold than to beat Usain Bolt if you have 2 legs.
The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
> [...]
>
> But that says nothing about Wiggins (just how useless Brits have been in the past).

Don't be silly Robert, let's not also forget that Wiggins is the first person to win the Tour and an Olympic gold in the same year.

As great as Farah's performance was, it has been done before and bettered, Zatopek, Viren, Bekele etc. I think Farah will go on to be one of the all time greats and probably the saviour of British marathon running, but this year for me, it has to be Wiggins.
The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
> [...]
>
> I don't think that's the point. Unfortunately (without wanting to take anything away from their efforts) paralympians are often competing in small categories against limited opposition. If you are unfortunate to have no legs, I suspect it is easier to win paralympic 100m gold than to beat Usain Bolt if you have 2 legs.

Which is why the performances have to be even more extraordinary to get nominated.
Oujmik - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach: Part of me wants to say Wiggo (and I think he will win) because I have been a follower of professional cycling for years and his achivements this year have been spectacular. I think if I had to vote, he'd probably edge it, but Mo Farah was the one who gave me the biggest buzz as a spectator, probably because I watched both his races in the games with a bunch of other people crowded around a telly who otherwise would have been off doing their own thing - one (two) of those fleeting moments of shared elation in amongst the humdrum of everyday life.

Having said that... I do feel it's a bit futile comparing them. I don;t know enought to make a judgement and if I did, why should I? It's like kids trying to decide if they like ponies or cake more, fun for a while, but ultimately meaningless. But then isn't everything?
Aly - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to winhill:

> So Ainslie, except Sailing isn't really a sport and keeping pyhsically at your best like Wiggo is surely a bit different to messing about on your arse in boats for a long time.


Have you ever tried racing a Laser or a a Finn?!?

OK, so he's clearly not going to win because lots of people think similarly to you (and in some ways I kind of agree) but I think it's a shame as Ainslie is one of the few people on the list who is one of the kind of sportsman who comes around once in a generation, and are far and away the best athletes on the planet at what they do.

In a similar vein I think Farah should be up there too, but I'd also love to see Wiggo win it for the way he (Sky?) dominated the tour, and what he's done for British cycling has been pretty spectacular.
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> Which is why the performances have to be even more extraordinary to get nominated.

Really?

Kimono - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:
I seems that Phil 'the power' missed his chance this year :(
Ava Adore - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

Just a thought - why is it sports "personality" rather than simply "sportsperson"? Is personality relevant?
a lakeland climber on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Ava Adore:

When announcing the list, Gary Lineker mentioned that it was now more about general achievement than personality but that there wasn't much point changing the name. He compared it to Match of the Day which used to show highlights of just one match per show rather than every match as they do nowadays.

ALC
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

An astonishing year, so many worthwhile contenders

But the two that really stand out even in this field are Murray and wiggins

In historic terms- first British male slam winner in the open era, and first British tour winner ever - these are the most significant

And for the winner even as a scot and a tennis fan, id have to say wiggins

Cheers

Gregor
prog99 on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

These are the criteria which don't mention personality although the last on the list could be thought of as such?

The rules of engagement required the Panel to select a shortlist of 12 sportspeople on the basis of the following criteria:

reflects UK sporting achievements on the national and/or international stage;

represents the breadth and depth of UK sports; and

takes into account 'impact' over and beyond the sport or sporting achievement in question.
kipper12 - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Wide_Mouth_Frog:
> (In reply to Mike C)
> [...]
>
> +1

One more for wiggins/murray
Ava Adore - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to a lakeland climber:

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks LC
Ava Adore - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

If Murray had won Wimbledon, do we reckon he would have been a shoe in for this?
GrahamD - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to kipper12:

Wiggins/Murray for sure. Any other year Farrah/Ennis/Ainslie would all have really great shouts but both Wiggins and Murray are also olympic gold medalists as well as having won or been up there with major events in their field all year.

Wiggins for me.
Ava Adore - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

Can anyone remember a year when there felt like it was a struggle to find a worthy winner?
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Ava Adore:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> If Murray had won Wimbledon, do we reckon he would have been a shoe in for this?

Yes. No one cares about the US open in comparison.

JamButty - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to kipper12)
>
> Wiggins/Murray for sure. Any other year Farrah/Ennis/Ainslie would all have really great shouts but both Wiggins and Murray are also olympic gold medalists as well as having won or been up there with major events in their field all year.
>
> Wiggins for me.

+1 for me, although given the negative world press that cycling has at the moment, will that sway the decision away from Brad?.
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to GrahamD:
> (In reply to kipper12)
>
> Wiggins and Murray are also olympic gold medalists as well as having won or been up there with major events in their field all year.

Olympic tennis hardly counts though, does it?
Ava Adore - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

No but a gold medal in anything does :-)
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Rafa nadal seemed to think it did when he won it

I get the impression that the status of Olympic tennis is really changing, and that it's well on its way to being seen a a fifth slam. McEnroe commentating said his biggest regret from playing was not to have taken part in the Olympics
The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
> [...]
>
> Really?

Really
handjammer - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach: Wiggins for me, or, to throw another into the mix (I don't know if he's on the list of contenders as I haven't bothered to look) - Alistair Cook?
TMM - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Ava Adore:

Plenty, but let me offer Zara Phillips in 2006 as an example.

TMM - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

Wiggins to win. Achievement in TDF and Olympics surely ticks all the boxes
Murray should be second but won't be due to indifference from the general public
Mo Farah will be second.
Third will be between Murray and Ennis.

You can take that to Bill Hill.
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Frank4short - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Aly:

> OK, so he's clearly not going to win because lots of people think similarly to you (and in some ways I kind of agree) but I think it's a shame as Ainslie is one of the few people on the list who is one of the kind of sportsman who comes around once in a generation, and are far and away the best athletes on the planet at what they do.

By that train of thought then McElroy should probably win it. As was pointed out above his combined achievements this year have probably been better than anyone else on the list. Though he won't win it as it's an Olympic year and one in which the Brits have done well, as you would expect with a home Olympics.
Paul035 - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

For me:

1. Wiggins - first Brit to win the TDF in 99 years is a massive achievement. You just have to listen to people like Chris Boardman get emotional and say they never thought they'd see it in their lifetime to appreciate how big a deal it is. Plus a Gold medal!

2. Ennis - great achievement and great personality. Great role model for women's sport

3. Andy Murray He's 'unfortunate' to win his first major in an Olympic year. Had a great year but will get it when he wins Wimbledon!!



just outside top 3: Hoy, Farrah, Brownlee (should have been nominated. In fact, probably both should: one the Olympic Champion, the other the World Champion.. should probably get some kind of outstanding sporting family award!!!)
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Ava Adore:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> No but a gold medal in anything does :-)

Some count more than others. Tennis may count in future but it's not there yet.

Jim at Work on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short:
Wiggins may well, deservedly get it, but he's 'fortunate' in that he hasn't been competing against a mass of drugs cheats, as historically has so often been the case. Jessica was brilliant, excelling in so many disciplines, just an incredible athlete. But for the sheer mad, mad, excitement Mo's two wins were unequalled.
Re 'personality' when you consider some of the past winners, this is clearly not a deciding factor!
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Jim at Work:
> (In reply to Frank4short)
> Wiggins may well, deservedly get it, but he's 'fortunate' in that he hasn't been competing against a mass of drugs cheats.

Absolutely. It shouldn't count unless the opposition is cheating.
Jimbo W on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:

1) Ennis
2) Pendleton (I know she didn't make the list)
3) Not a man this time
Frank4short - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Jim at Work)
> [...]
>
> Absolutely. It shouldn't count unless the opposition is cheating.

Though you could say that Wiggins won in a year with little competition and his biggest rival was actually a team mate who was obviously under orders not to have a go.

Whilst clearly it's been a fantastic year for British cycling, actually scratch that, British sport. I think Wiggo's win in the Tour is possibly being blown out of proportion to what it was, a great win but in an uncompetitive year with a comparatively easy course by Tour standards, because it's the first time it's ever been won by a Brit.
IainRUK - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to tony: Farrah or Wiggo.

Ennis did great, lots of pressure being the poster girl.. but she just won her one event (which I know is many events..) where as Mo and Wiggo triumphed at numerous, plus in events which we traditionally have had little success..

Normally any 4 or 5 on that list would walk it..
IainRUK - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to TMM:
> (In reply to Ava Adore)
>
> Plenty, but let me offer Zara Phillips in 2006 as an example.

why?
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to tony) Farrah or Wiggo.
>
> Mo and Wiggo triumphed ......in events in which we traditionally have had little success..

Why should that have any bearing on it?
ripper - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> Whilst clearly it's been a fantastic year for British cycling, actually scratch that, British sport. I think Wiggo's win in the Tour is possibly being blown out of proportion to what it was, a great win but in an uncompetitive year with a comparatively easy course by Tour standards, because it's the first time it's ever been won by a Brit.

an uncompetitive year? or just a much cleaner one?
Graham Mck on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach: Katherine Grainger for her ability to keep going after so many second places (when everybody else in the rowing team seemed to be winning) and then cope with home game pressure and knowing it was her last chance - no brainer really :)
IainRUK - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Because of the inspiration for kids factor.. kids may think you have to be african to be a world class 10k runner.. yet Farrah won the double..
IainRUK - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to ripper:
> (In reply to Frank4short)
> [...]
>
> an uncompetitive year? or just a much cleaner one?

A sort of agree, as it was such a team win the way they raced it.. who ever wins it deserves it this year.

The biggest shock is Gerrard and Lampard both making FIFA world player of the year nominations... incredulous..


tony on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to tony) Farrah or Wiggo.
>
> Ennis did great, lots of pressure being the poster girl.. but she just won her one event (which I know is many events..) whereas Mo and Wiggo triumphed at numerous, plus in events which we traditionally have had little success..

Not sure that's quite right. Ennis had to be very good at a range of running, jumping and throwing events. Her 100m hurdles time would have got her 4th place in the final. And we do have a decent tradition in the heptathlon. Mo Farah was very good at running 12.5 times round the track, and at running 25 times round the track - essentially the same discipline.

But this is the trouble with these things - all three performed exceptionally well and are all outstanding athletes. Trying to say one is better than another is a bit meaningless. I saw Mo Farah at the indoor meet in Glasgow earlier this year, and his speed was breathtaking. It'll be interesting to see how he gets on if and when he steps up to the marathon.
Frank4short - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to ripper:

> an uncompetitive year? or just a much cleaner one?

Uncompetitive! It became apparent from a comparatively early stage there wasn't a rider in the field who had the necessary backing to compete against the mite of Sky. I personally think Froome probably could have beaten him had they been competing head to head. Other than it seems there wasn't much in the way of what would normally be called competitive rider's on form or uninjured this year. Add on to that the fact Sky were without a shadow of a doubt the strongest team there so it made it virtually impossible for some lower team up and comer to challenge against them. I'd say all of the above add up to uncompetitive.
IainRUK - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short: Not sure.. Froome isn't a good TTer... he also didn't win when on his own in other races..
Frank4short - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Robert Durran) Because of the inspiration for kids factor.. kids may think you have to be african to be a world class 10k runner.. yet Farrah won the double..

Though he is African, Somali by birth. Only moved to the UK when he was 8. I think Farah's wins were great, fair play to him. Though the part I don't understand, not being British, is why he's being held up specifically over so many other British Olympic gold medallists?

ripper - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to ripper)
>
> [...]
>
> Uncompetitive! there wasn't much in the way of what would normally be called competitive riders.

What, you mean like the Schlecks and Contador? so I go back to my original question (not that I want to start an off-topic argument, I do take your point, just wonder how much the 'uncompetitiveness' was a direct result of a cleaner field).
tony on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Though he is African, Somali by birth. Only moved to the UK when he was 8. I think Farah's wins were great, fair play to him. Though the part I don't understand, not being British, is why he's being held up specifically over so many other British Olympic gold medallists?

Because winning the distance double is a rare event, and no British athlete has done it before.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to Ava Adore)
> [...]
>
> Some count more than others. Tennis may count in future but it's not there yet.

You Keep saying this, but I think you are wrong

In the past, the top players did not even enter, and the medal winners list bears that out

This year, Murray beat djokovic in the semi, and federer in the final. Nadal, the previous winner, was only missing due to injury. The fourth semi finallist was del Potro, to only other slam winner currently playing at the top level

The both semis were fiercely contested

The evidence is that the players really do care about the Olympic tennis now. Olympic gold on wimbledon centre court is a really big deal...

Cheers
Gregor
IainRUK - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Though he is African, Somali by birth. Only moved to the UK when he was 8. I think Farah's wins were great, fair play to him. Though the part I don't understand, not being British, is why he's being held up specifically over so many other British Olympic gold medallists?

I did actually understand that.. just taking the piss..

For me he's a great british success story, the immigrant done good, inspiring others. I think he's great but also love the fact he is proud of GB and Somalia..
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
> Though he is African, Somali by birth. Only moved to the UK when he was 8. I think Farah's wins were great, fair play to him. Though the part I don't understand, not being British, is why he's being held up specifically over so many other British Olympic gold medallists?

He has British citzenship. How else are you going to define British?
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> The evidence is that the players really do care about the Olympic tennis now. Olympic gold on wimbledon centre court is a really big deal...

If or when the players count it as at least as big a deal as a grand slam event, I'll take it seriously as an olympic sport.
coinneach - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

Here's an idea.............................Bring back "Superstars"

All the athletes on the nomination list take part in a variety of sporting events and the winner scoops BOTH prizes!
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
> For me he's a great british success story, the immigrant done good, inspiring others. I think he's great but also love the fact he is proud of GB and Somalia..

That sums it up perfectly. I really hope he wins.

Frank4short - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
>
> He has British citzenship. How else are you going to define British?

I've no argument with that. It was in response to Iain's statement, subsequently it would appear taking the piss, that it proved someone other than an African could win a long distance athletics event. I just point out that even though he may be British he's actually really African so said point doesn't count in that regard.
Enty - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
> Here's an idea.............................Bring back "Superstars"
>
> All the athletes on the nomination list take part in a variety of sporting events and the winner scoops BOTH prizes!

Wiggins did do Superstars - the run wasn't pretty.

E
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> All the athletes on the nomination list take part in a variety of sporting events and the winner scoops BOTH prizes!

That's hardly fair. There's only two athletes on the list. What about all the others?

coinneach - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I'd like to see any of them riding a Raleigh round a cinder track a la Kevin Keegan............!
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
> [...]
>
> If or when the players count it as at least as big a deal as a grand slam event, I'll take it seriously as an olympic sport.

http://london2012.bbc.co.uk/tennis/event/men-singles/match=tem001201/index.html

It looks like federer and del Potro took it pretty seriously. You can dismiss it if you like, when the top players in the world put that sort of effort into trying to win it, they clearly think it's a serious olympic sport and i tend to go with their judgement over yours...

;-)

Cheers

Gregor
Kipper - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
> Here's an idea.............................Bring back "Superstars"
>

They have - http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2012/superstars-2012.html
I like climbing - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike C:
> (In reply to coinneach)
>
> Wiggins or Murray, for their Olympic success & non Olympic breakthrough success. No contest really.

Don't agree with "no contest" but I agree with your reasoning that it should go to either one of them. I'd actually like to see them both share the award.
The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Frank4short:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
> [...]
>
> Though he is African, Somali by birth. Only moved to the UK when he was 8. I think Farah's wins were great, fair play to him. Though the part I don't understand, not being British, is why he's being held up specifically over so many other British Olympic gold medallists?

Athletics is important to us Brits.
The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:
> (In reply to IainRUK)
>
> Here's an idea.............................Bring back "Superstars"
>
They have just finished filming a new series.
The New NickB - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to coinneach)
> [...]
>
> That's hardly fair. There's only two athletes on the list. What about all the others?

Three!
Mr Powly - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:
> (In reply to Frank4short) Not sure.. Froome isn't a good TTer... he also didn't win when on his own in other races..

Not very good, other than coming second in both TT stages of the tour, and Olympic bronze.
Sean Kelly - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> He has British citzenship. How else are you going to define British?

My father, although born in Eire 10 years before partition, was educated at a English public school from the age of 8, served in the British army for 21 yrs (incl. the war years), ran army cadets for another 20 but when he wanted to visit his sister in Canada he couldn't get a British passport and eventually had to get an Irish one! So I'm not sure what you have to do to become British. He was quite bitter about all this.
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to Sean Kelly:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> So I'm not sure what you have to do to become British.

Run faster?
Si dH - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach:
Murray, Wiggins, Ennis, in that order.
To become a Major winner or Tour de France winner requires a lifetime of dedication to your sport from a very early age, combined with a huge amount of natural talent.
For me this is more impressive than the vast majority of gold medals, some of which are won by people who only took up their sport fairly recently and hence by definition cannot be as difficult (not wanting to put them down as they are also incredible achievements). However I have always been extremely impressed by heptathletes/decathletes and Ennis' achievements were amazing. I can see how someone can become very good at a particular event like the shot putt, the javelin, the 100m hurdles, the high jump, the 800m etc through lots of continuous training - but to become that good at all of them is super impressive. Hence for me she gets 3rd spot.

What a year when you compare it to two years ago where we gave it to Giggs coz there was no-one else!
Mike C on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to I like climbing:
> (In reply to Mike C)
> [...]
>
> Don't agree with "no contest" but I agree with your reasoning that it should go to either one of them. I'd actually like to see them both share the award.

Thank you, though I also have a feeling that Mo may get it for the "personality" element. Interesting anyhow.
Robert Durran - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> It looks like federer and del Potro took it pretty seriously. You can dismiss it if you like, when the top players in the world put that sort of effort into trying to win it, they clearly think it's a serious olympic sport and i tend to go with their judgement over yours...

As far as I'm concerned it's only a serious Olympic sport if they would swap a grand slam title for an Olympic one. In fact I think an equivalent test can be used for any sport.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

I see where you are coming from

But there are a number of Olympic sports where the Olympic gold is not the highest honour. These include cycling, boxing, football and soon golf

It is an argument that none of those should be Olympic sports then, because that should be the pinnacle of competition; but thats not the world we currently live in.

From what I can see, the competitors took these very seriously, even the football- winning the gold has become a national obsession for Brazil.

So it looks like its you that's out of step. There will continue to be a fair number of sports where the Olympics are not the ultimate prize, but that doesn't mean the gold medal is of no value. In tennis, when the semis were contested by the best 4 uninjured players, it seems to me that the players believe its a serious Olympic sport, and with respect, i'll take their opinion over yours in this one...

Cheers
Gregor
Jonathan - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to coinneach: Wiggins for me, and agree that there are many on the list who would have won normally.

Does anyone else think that there are some on the list that should have been up for lifetime achievement? I'm thinking Chris Hoy, Ben Ainslie, even Wiggins though his achievements in 2012 have been spectacular.

For whoever suggested sailing isn't a real sport, I would point out that dinghy sailing, particularly in the Finn is extremely physical. Ben Ainslie has to maintain his weight at something like 15kg above his natural weight to be competitive, and he trains extremely hard for this. He really is a candidate for the best dinghy sailor the world has ever seen, as his olympic record shows. That's why I think he deserves a lifetime achievement award.
Robert Durran - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> But there are a number of Olympic sports where the Olympic gold is not the highest honour. These include cycling, boxing, football and soon golf
>
> It is an argument that none of those should be Olympic sports then, because that should be the pinnacle of competition; but thats not the world we currently live in.

Yes. That is my argument. No, unfortunately it is not the world we currently live in.

no_more_scotch_eggs - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

unfortunately?

i think the olympics would be poorer without boxing and cycling, and even basketball, tennis and football make it a more varied and exciting spectacle.

i think the attitude of the participants is important. up until the last couple of olympics, i'd have agreed about the tennis; marc rosset and nicolas massu are hardly giants in the history of the game, but both won gold. however, the current generation really do seem to take it seriously, and its status in the game is evolving rapidly. i think that it will be soon come to be seen as on a par with a slam, or possibly more so, given that there are 16 chances to win a slam for every one to win olympic gold. its not like football in that regard, as there is no world championship of tennis to have as a rival tournament, in the way football has the world cup.

these things are fluid, and evolve over time, and dont fit neatly with your model; and i prefer the olympics the way they are, with some contradictions and oddities, rather than your purist approach that would have a lot of exciting events thrown out, and would prevent the evolution of the status of the olympics that is happening within tennis,

cheers
gregor


I like climbing - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Mike C:
Good point about Mo. Right now the pr people that represent all these guys will be working the media because ultimately the highest profile contender will stand the best chance of winning.
If they know what to do they will also be working the judges even now too, that is if there are independent judges that play a part in all this - I'm not sure how they decide the winner.
IainRUK - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Si dH: Not sure re Giggs.. that wasn't for that year alone and maybe it should have been more of a life time achievement award, but that was for being a top professional at one club, being the most successful domestic footballer in the UK.. it's hard to say he didn't deserve it..

Interesting news re the Froome/Wiggo

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20516939

Anyway re ennis I agree.. Interestingly her coach says she can compete til 2020.. I'd be surprised as I've always thought heptathletes put such strain on their body that injuries seem to finish them before natural ageing does..

But i just feel double gold was superb, and yes they were slow times in a relatively poor field but he still went and did it.
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

re giggs

and, in part, for being a model professional who kept his head down, stayed out of the tabloids, and didnt get up to the sort of seedy shenanigans many of his fellow pro footballers indulged in

a bit of a national treasure really

then it turned out that the most super thing about him was his injunctions...
IainRUK - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs: Yeah.. there was that slight issue...

To be honest though the way some of these players play well when there lives are being torn apart is very impressive.

John terry is an awful human being, but when his back was against the wall, team mates turning against him, wifes left him, racism charges, he still went out and faced it, and played superbly. An odious character but god knows how they stay so focused..

probably by being incredibly selfish and egotistical.. but still impressive nerve..
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to IainRUK:

also bowyer some years back for leeds

i guess on the field of play, you can totally focus on the simple matter of the next tackle/pass etc, allows you to blot out the other stuff

though some must do it better than others- maybe we notice these cases more because the ones that don't cope so well find themselves dropped and out of the public eye in the reserve squad
Robert Durran - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> unfortunately?
>
> i think the olympics would be poorer without boxing and cycling, and even basketball, tennis and football make it a more varied and exciting spectacle.


I have probably stated my case too strongly and I accept that things can evolve and maybe tennis will have a rightful place eventually. But there are limits; football, for instance, is and always will be an Olympic joke because of the World Cup
IainRUK - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran: Totally agree.. look at the U23 rule for football.. a joke..

It will always be a side event.. get rid, let some of the more athletic events take precedent.. look at ultra-running.. mountain running?

Two events being taken into the commonwealth games soon but not represented in the O's...

Imagine how good it would have been to watch 50 guys running 300 times around some london park for 24 hrs.. its actually good fun, you head down, grab a burger.. shout some abuse.. laugh at them.. watch them cry.. its such a drama event..
no_more_scotch_eggs - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs)
> [...]


> football, for instance, is and always will be an Olympic joke because of the World Cup

now, i'm on shakier ground here, but i'm even going to argue that the football is not a *complete* joke, maybe more of a humorous one-liner...

i went to the Brazil- belarus match at old trafford in the summer, and there was a *massive* turnout from Brazil fans (there were even some belarus fans too). they were clearly taking it seriously, and from phil vickery's blog on the bbc football site, apparantly it's become a national obsession to win the gold medal, as they have 4 silvers now, whereas argentina have won gold.

i think messi demanded to play in Beijing last time round, though barca didnt really want him too, because the chance to play for his country at the olympics was supposedly a big deal for him

so... i wonder if our lack of interest is partly a parochial thing, as in other major football nations, it is taken as important

and i'm content with it being there (i got to see neymar and oscar at old trafford for brazil, if nothing else...)

but i accept its undoubtedly an anomaly, and the secondary status to the world cup will never be in doubt.

now, golf... that's a stage too far even for me... what next? snooker...?

;-)

cheers
gregor
Robert Durran - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to no_more_scotch_eggs:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> now, golf... that's a stage too far even for me... what next? snooker...?

climbing?.....bike riding?....oops, already got that....
GrahamD - on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

Something like squash would be an obvious contender rather than golf - but then where is the commercial value ?
tony on 29 Nov 2012
In reply to GrahamD:

What's commercial value got to do with anything? What's the commercial value in synchronized swimming? Or archery? Or water polo? Or ... I could go on.
minimike - on 30 Nov 2012
In reply to tony:

Mo Farah didn't just get the distance double:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT-PaBCYOMo

Oh wait, that's not on the beeb..

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