/ DMM Switch/ Apex

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jonnie3430 - on 27 Nov 2012
I've fondled the Apex in Tiso and they look lovely, a steep curve to the shaft should give good clearance for the hands while allowing plunging too. Has anyone taken the plunge and bought a pair yet.

Does anyone know when the Switches are out? Joe Brown isn't predicting them until early 2013 :-(
cyberpunk - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430: Sorry cannt answer your question, but do you know if the Raptors pick and but changed to make it a Fly axe. They look inter-changeable?
climber34neil - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430: hi, they look good but in my opinion!, there are a few issues, I think s modular head would have been a better option especially when looking at t he price of them, the apex seems to be marketed as a leash less tool however I'm not o sure if you could properly swap etc on them, the switch (?) you old which looks like a copy of a nomic, so on balance I think I would still buy the nomics and if considering the apex I think I would stick with vipers due to the modular head and stronger shaft . On the plus side though they are good looking tools.
The Ex-Engineer - on 27 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430: No triggers on the Apex so I'd go for Quarks despite the fact that even the triggers on them are rather poor.
In reply to climber34neil:
> if considering the apex I think I would stick with vipers due to the modular head

What do you mean "modular head"? I've got Vipers and don't really see how the Apex head looks like it does more or less than the BD heard?
kyaizawa - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430: I believe the Apex has a single piece pick and hammer/adze, whilst the "modular" head on the Viper allows you to swap just the picks or just the hammer/adze, giving you more choice and variability (one hammer, one one adze; two hammers; you get the picture) presumably at a lower cost as you don't have to switch out the whole unit.
jonnie3430 - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to kyaizawa:
> (In reply to jonnie3430) I believe the Apex has a single piece pick and hammer/adze,

Nah, it's the same head as the Switch, 3 choices of adzes and 2 choices of hammers, all independent of the pick. You can match on it as easily as a viper and quark and don't understand why Neil thinks the shaft is stronger on the viper?

I'd like to know if the Apex is more curved than the viper or quark though,(inner geek coming out,) as it did seem a mega curve that would be quite nice on ice.
edinburgh_man on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:

I had a play with them at the weekend - first impressions were they are heavy. Feel much heavier than a quark.

Defo more curved than vipers.

Prob really good if you like heavy tools.
Martin W on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:

> Nah, it's the same head as the Switch, 3 choices of adzes and 2 choices of hammers, all independent of the pick.

Are you sure? The user instructions on the DDM web site http://dmmclimbing.com/instructions/ice_axes_aug_2012.pdf seem to show a single-piece head for both the Apex and the Switch, and the options on the product description pages don't seem to list picks separately from adze or hammer. The way I read that is that the standard offering has T-rated picks with the compact adze and hammer, and the alternatives are for B-rated picks with compact adze or hammer, or a T-rated pick with the mountain adze.

On the other hand, it does say Mixed and Ice specific picks available separately. Which is confusing.
Martin W on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to kyaizawa:

> the "modular" head on the Viper allows you to swap just the picks or just the hammer/adze...presumably at a lower cost as you don't have to switch out the whole unit.

I wouldn't bank on that! I've not found prices for picks for the new DMM axes but modular picks for the Viper are typically around 40 whereas single-piece picks including adze/hammer for previous DMM models are around the 25-30 mark. I'd expect the parts for the new DMM axes to be similarly priced.
Martin W on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to cyberpunk:

> (In reply to jonnie3430) do you know if the Raptors pick and but changed to make it a Fly axe. They look inter-changeable?

Yes - if you mean the new Raptor and the new Fly picks. It says so on the DDM web site: http://dmmclimbing.com/products/raptor/

"Can be fitted with the Fly pick sets for more technical terrain"
jonnie3430 - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to Martin W:
> (In reply to jonnie3430)
>
> [...]
>
> Are you sure?

No, I'm not. Anyone work in a gear shop and can check?
vscott - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:
Apex is much more curved (much more similar to nomic) than current quark or viper - greater clearance. This illustrates it quite well http://ministrstvozadezinformiranje.blogspot.co.uk/

Picks are all one piece (include hammer or adze), but cost is pretty similar to just the pick from other brands.

Balance wise - apex comes with removable pick weights to adjust.

Fly and raptor picks are interchangeable.



jonnie3430 - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to vscott:

So I'm thinking Apex is more in the Nomic league than the viper and quark, yet is more mountaineery than the nomic or switch. I'm interested because I have a pair of switches on order to replace my vipers and wonder if I'm making the right choice...
kyaizawa - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:
Ok had a play with the Apexes in a shop today.

To confirm, the pick and hammer/adze is single piece and not modular like the Viper.
Compared to Viper they are pretty much the same overall weight but feel really different - whilst the Viper is a lot more top heavy and seems to "turn" more, the Apex has much more weight in the lower shaft/handle, even with the pick weights.
Curve wise, line up the two handles and the Apex pick tip is about an inch lower than on the Viper.

You can tell I've had a productive afternoon :P
coldwill - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to jonnie3430: The apex reminds me more of the Grivel Top Wing but more bend.
Also if you climb alot of ice the DMM pick can't fail to be better than the new Petzl picks which need a bit of work when new.
ads.ukclimbing.com
climber34neil - on 28 Nov 2012
In reply to TobyA: hi , just mean that it would appear the head of the apex is all one piece where as the vipers have the option of just changing hammer/ adze etc so more flexibility depending in what you want, also I am lead to believe the method of producing the shaft and design of it on the vipers are supposed to be stronger than other designs , although if this is not correct then please advise as the inner geek would be keen to know, cheers

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