/ If MRT Get Privatised...

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jonnie3430 - on 06 Dec 2012
One of the questions on this poll put the willies up me: http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=530050

It asked whether I thought insurance should be required to allow MRT to charge for costs of rescue.

My question is, and it is theoretical as I don't think it'll happen:

If MRT started charging for rescues and insurance was enforced, would anyone be interested in forming an MRT that doesn't charge for rescues so that the uninsured can be helped without crippling debt?

I don't think I'd get rescue insurance in Scotland if rescues charged. I can imagine it being part of joining the MCoS or BMC and the costs of joining therefore increasing, so I'd opt out.
timjones - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:

I must have been asleep when they nationalised the mountain rescue teams!
professionalwreckhead - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:

What do you consider more appropriate:

a. donations from kind members of the public pay for your rescue
b. you pay for your rescue (whether by insurance or otherwise)

One years insurance would cost about the same as the petrol required for one return trip from Glasgow to Glencoe, so how can the majority of mountain users claim poverty to not have insurance.


jonnie3430 - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to timjones:

OK, maybe privatised was the wrong term :If MRT Charge For Rescues...
jonnie3430 - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:
> (In reply to jonnie3430)
>
> What do you consider more appropriate:
>
> a. donations from kind members of the public pay for your rescue
> b. you pay for your rescue (whether by insurance or otherwise)
>
> One years insurance would cost about the same as the petrol required for one return trip from Glasgow to Glencoe, so how can the majority of mountain users claim poverty to not have insurance.

As I haven't needed rescued yet (touching wood!) it would have cost me (say 40 a year,) 640 for insurance, which would have gone on profit for insurers and other peoples rescues.

It's not poverty, just that I am happy to volunteer my time at no cost to help other people out, which is what MRT do as well and would rather a system based on that than insurance.
Dauphin - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:

It could be a mutual - then no profits or ploughed back into improving the service.

Can't see it happening anytime before we see co-payments in the NHS. Apart from certain narrow areas of the U.K. what would be the point of having full time MRT? The state taking over MRT? Who would pay for all that training and experience - often from related civilian occupations. Or are you talking about paying for expensive rescue vehicles to attend?

D

nonymouse - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to jonnie3430: I dont really think mr teams would want to see this happenming. Surly as voluntaiers they dont have to account to anyone.
professionalwreckhead - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to jonnie3430:
> (In reply to professionalwreckhead)
>
> It's not poverty, just that I am happy to volunteer my time at no cost to help other people out, which is what MRT do as well and would rather a system based on that than insurance.

The issue is, it's not the volunteers' time that costs money (unsurprisingly!) it's the training, vehicles, specialist kit etc.

I doubt many people want to have to pay for mountain rescue, but if it's because the service could be improved significantly or is going to really struggle without its costs being covered, then I'd vote for it.



tipsy - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to nonymouse: Categorically un-true. A frankly ridiculous assertion. Volunteer MRT's view themselves as a professional service, 100% accountable to the demands and expectations of the public they serve.
Neil Williams - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:

"a. donations from kind members of the public pay for your rescue
b. you pay for your rescue (whether by insurance or otherwise)"

c. Mountaineers donate to the MRTs. Which many do.

Neil
Mark Reeves - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to jonnie3430: The ironic thing is that probably 90% of callouts come from people with little to no experience, who 9 times out of 10 don't know MR is a voluntary service in the UK. Especially in areas like Snowdonia and the Lakes. Most of these people are blissfully unaware of the associated costs of running a MRT. (Land rovers, fuel, insurance, equipment, medical supplies, etc... and that even before the RAF/RN are called in to help)

Whilst I don't believe they should charge, I think they should be allowed to send the people they rescue a letter. Stating the number of man hours and the resources used and a estimated cost for the team.

The RNLI is based on donations, however yacht oweners seem to have lots more money to give and as a result the RNLI has done a really good job raising money to share nationally. MRTs are all pretty seperate, they get a small amount from the MREW in England and Wales, but the teams all essentially have to raise their own money as well as go on callouts to help provide the service they do.

Many Team Members also have to take on the roll of fatal incident officer for the Police due to the locations and difficulty in getting full time paid officers into these locations. They then have to attend the coroners court to give their findings.

I know MRT don't like the idea of compulsory charging but some areas the incident number are continuing to grow. I think Llanberis team are approaching 200 jobs for this year. 2 jobs every three days on average, that is getting onto being a near full time job!
nonymouse - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to tipsy: Ididnt mean in the sense of accountable to the public. I meant as in accountable to a goverment department or a big company.
richprideaux - on 06 Dec 2012
In reply to professionalwreckhead:
> (In reply to jonnie3430)
> [...]
>
> The issue is, it's not the volunteers' time that costs money (unsurprisingly!) it's the training, vehicles, specialist kit etc.
>
> I doubt many people want to have to pay for mountain rescue, but if it's because the service could be improved significantly or is going to really struggle without its costs being covered, then I'd vote for it.

The time itself doesn't cost money - but personal kit, fuel (getting worse every year obviously) and time lost at work if self employed does make a large financial impact on team member's lives.
Being in an MRT costs me about 2-2.5k per annum. Mainly fuel, but wear and tear on kit etc mounts up.
MRTs normally require a minimum attendance at training sessions and regular maintenance of core skills regardless of how many callouts the team receives that year. For most MRT members it is an unpaid job, and one with a lot of inherent expenses. It is also worth bearing in mind that a significant proportion of jobs and roles performed by MRTs are nothing to do with climbers and walkers - rural/urban search, water/flood rescue, mountainbikers at trail centres etc.

Any of the views expressed above are my own and not necessarily that of any organisation i may be seen to represent.


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