/ Football - what's the point of it now?

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It seems that football is now a vehicle for weekly debates about refereeing decisions, racism and violence. There's very little mention of the actual football anymore. Pundits spend their time discussing referees, not players (despite the fact that they're all too thick and lazy to learn the laws), the media discusses incidents of racist abuse and violence, and the players are all cheating, wet, pathetic, twitter-shite-spouting, brother's-wife-shagging wankers.

I used to love football; not any longer.

Is anyone still in love with the beautiful game?
Sarah G on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
What's the point of it....ever...?!
Hairy Pete on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: There's never been any point to it.
Clint86 - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Only because of the relentless advertising it gets which sucks me in, but otherwise I agree.
argyle_dude - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

Sadly, I too have lost a lot of interest. After several years living in the grim north (read: midlands)having moved back down to sunnier climates I once again went back to being a season ticket holder at Home Park. So far I have been to a massive two games. I knew I woldnt make all of them due to work but there have been 3 or 4 matches where I simply chose to do other things with a rare weekend off.
As for Match of the Day, I have yet to watch it this season because I find it impossible to relate to premiership football and I cant stand the 10 minutes of s**t the pundits spout between each match.
Wiley Coyote - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
There is no 'point' but then there never was and much of what you say is true.
However given modern fitness levels, pace and infinitely improved pitches compared to, say, when, George Best was playing on something resembling a ploughed field, it is, for me at least, the most dazzling display of sporting skill in the world.
I just sit back and wonder "How did he just do that?" or even "What did he just do there?"
If the pundits bother you use their waffling time to go and make a brew. If the papers bore you don't buy 'em. The cheating, diving nad play acting you just have to live with and revel in the best of the game.
chinoxa - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I'm in the process of falling out of love. I was brought up by my dad as a Man City fan, have supported them since they were the second division, so by rights I should be loving it these days. Now, though, my team is hated for being rich and successful. We're criticised by pundits with no sense of context. Fellow 'fans' forget our recent history and call for the manager's head when we lose any match. Then they start throwing coins at opposition players.

Historically I always enjoyed watching good football from any team, even Man Utd. Used to support them in Europe always, loved watching Ronaldo play. Now I'm subject to vitriol from their fans through virtue of being a 'threat', so I find myself hating them. It's just a big negative spiral and it's rubbish.

Supporting a big team is just like being addicted to smoking. At first it's a little bit cool, a little bit novel...but very quickly the good things become vanishingly small and the bad things get worse and worse.

I think I'll go back to supporting my home team, St Mirren. They're rubbish and always will be, but you never feel disappointed and it makes the occasional good times extra special.
I like climbing - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
I like football.

I think it's fascinating but I think football was better in the 60's and 70's because there was a more level playing field in terms of transfers and expectation. Almost anyone in Division 1 could win the title.
I agree with you about media comment being more about everything except the football and that's a big downside.
There are some fairly unsavoury people playing football too. On examining one England team a few years ago we found that every player had been associated with something dodgy and it makes it harder to support them.
EeeByGum - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: I suppose it is only like climbing. Pundits tend to talk only about exceptional achievements or controversial practices. Meanwhile, the majority of us plod up and down the old favourites without so much as a mention.
The New NickB - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

A thread like this is always going to bring out the tedious posters who are desperate to tell everyone how much they hate football, but I do think the game is going through a difficult time at the moment.

I watched a brilliant game of football on Sunday, my team won in injury time, but for nme the experience was ruined by the actions of some of the supporters. Doesn't matter that it was the other teams supporter, I know every club has them and it left a bitter taste.

The game is infinately better than it was in the bad old days, but I think our expectations have changed.
Al Evans on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Hairy Pete:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) There's never been any point to it.

Almost certainly not, but when I was a kid, before I discovered climbing, I used to get involved in games that lasted up to ten hours long, involving most of the kids in the neighbourhood at the local 'rec'.
Blue Straggler - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to I like climbing:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity)
> I like football.
>
> there was a more level playing field

Wiley just said pitches are infinitely improved!

<gets coat>
cb294 - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to chinoxa:

Supporting the team from where you live or where you come from are the only two options. If one of them is crap so much the better. Yearly relegation or promotion battles are much more exciting than mid table safety.

You are allowed to adopt one big team for the international competitions so you can enjoy skillful football as well.

CB
Steve John B - on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
>
> I watched a brilliant game of football on Sunday, my team won in injury time, but for nme the experience was ruined by the actions of some of the supporters. Doesn't matter that it was the other teams supporter, I know every club has them and it left a bitter taste.

Good on you for avoiding tribalism in this context - I follow the other team but b*ll*cks to coin-throwing.

> The game is infinately better than it was in the bad old days, but I think our expectations have changed.

Agree with this too.
Fredt on 11 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I remember when the Owls were in the old third division, supporting them was an enjoyable laugh. By the time they got to the Premier League, all the fun had gone.
I like climbing - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Blue Straggler:
> (In reply to I like climbing)
> [...]
>
> Wiley just said pitches are infinitely improved!
>
> <gets coat>

Don't worry that was funny ! :)
Sebastian Fontleroy - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Hairy Pete:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity) There's never been any point to it.

What's the point in anything?


Oh, sorry, i thought this was the Suicide thread.
The New NickB - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:

I think a lot of Bradford fans will be seeing the point of it tonight!

The beauty of the cup, even if it is the significantly less beautiful Capital One Cup.

If you missed the result, lowly Bradford beat an almost full strength Arsenal team and deserved the win.
In reply to The New NickB: I think you'll find it's called "romance" rather than "beauty" in the clichéd vernacular of the football world. :-)
Enty - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to The New NickB:
> (In reply to Submit to Gravity)
>
> I think a lot of Bradford fans will be seeing the point of it tonight!
>
> The beauty of the cup, even if it is the significantly less beautiful Capital One Cup.
>
> If you missed the result, lowly Bradford beat an almost full strength Arsenal team and deserved the win.

This is true. Nights like last night go a tiny way in restoring my faith in the modern game. However there are still too many negative aspects outweighing the positives to get me back into it like I was in the 80's and 90's.

The diving problem.
Loyalty. Players chasing the money (ie a different club every year)
Too many foreign players.
The money.
Sky TV.
Atmosphere. All seater stadiums.
etc etc

E
ads.ukclimbing.com
TheDrunkenBakers - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Enty:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
> [...]
>
> This is true. Nights like last night go a tiny way in restoring my faith in the modern game. However there are still too many negative aspects outweighing the positives to get me back into it like I was in the 80's and 90's.
>
> The diving problem.
> Loyalty. Players chasing the money (ie a different club every year)
> Too many foreign players.
> The money.
> Sky TV.
> Atmosphere. All seater stadiums.
> etc etc
>
> E

Agree almost entirely with this apart from the seating bit. Much better IMO.

I used to love football but the diving problem is the single thing which could stop me watching for good.

How to solve it though? Managers need to stamp down on it. If they all did then there would be no advantage to any teams. Secondly, if self regulation doesnt work then the FA has to stamp down on it. Use video evidence post match to fine player who cheat. One strike - weeks wages to charity, 2 strikes - match ban and month's wages to charity and three strikes 6 match ban and 6 months wages to charity. And so on.

OK, so my punishment might be seen as harsh but i think its needed.




alanw - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to TheDrunkenBakers: I agree that it could be sorted out if there was a will to do so. But managers won't because it's often their best players doing the diving and they have to keep them happy to get the points and keep their jobs. The real failure in football is the lack of leadership and control at the top - FA/UEFA/FIFA. They're the one's that should be doing the retrospective fines and video reviews. Until they do, the whole world sees players cheating in slow motion from 20 different camera angles and getting away with it.

Plus - Well done Bradford, deserved win.
Wiley Coyote - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Agree about the diving but it's no good asking managers to act as one. Let's face it, they get millions to compete against each other and squeze out every last drop of advantage not to act in concert. The lead needs to come from the FA/Prem League. 'Simulation', as it's euphemistically called, is already bookable. A few more cards and bans with offenders sidelined for increasingly long periods for repeat offences would quickly persuade managers to stamp it out because they need their good players on the pitch.
While we're at it, if soccer adopted rugby's tactic of moving a freekick forward ten yards for dissent that would also make the game better to watch.
alanw - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Wiley Coyote: The big step needs to come from retrospective punishment after the game but the FA and above seem to not want to do that as they're clinging to the old ideal of the referee makes the decisions on the pitch, hence it's only used in rare instances. This is a mockery as everyone else in the world can see what happened.

I'm torn on the type of punishment. If bans are imposed it would make managers act but they may also fight against it as it would damage their teams' performance, plus it also affects the supporters who are deprived from seeing the best players. Serious fines might be more acceptable to fans and managers with few showing sympathy to a premiership player losing some money. But they would have to be hefty fines related to pay - a month's salary might make a player think twice but it would need to be of that order.

Also, need to be careful on copying other sports. Rugby and others have potentially much to teach football but rugby is much more territorial than football so the 10 yard rule makes more sense. Not sure it would work in football.
tony on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to alanw:
> (In reply to Wiley Coyote) The big step needs to come from retrospective punishment after the game but the FA and above seem to not want to do that as they're clinging to the old ideal of the referee makes the decisions on the pitch, hence it's only used in rare instances. This is a mockery as everyone else in the world can see what happened.
>
> I'm torn on the type of punishment.
>
I'm not sure the type of punishment actually matters too much. With retrospective punishment available, only the very stupid would actually persist with diving. Being cited and shown to be a diver would put a lot of people off doing it.

> Also, need to be careful on copying other sports. Rugby and others have potentially much to teach football but rugby is much more territorial than football so the 10 yard rule makes more sense. Not sure it would work in football.

What about direct free kicks? Would Van Persie have had such a good chance of scoring on Sunday if he'd been 10 yards further out? Or, if a 10-yard rule put the free-kick inside the penalty box, a direct free-kick would become a penalty. That would focus a few minds.

JMGLondon - on 12 Dec 2012
I think the 10 yard rule did exist but FIFA got rid of it a few years ago. Could be wrong?

I still love the game. The match on Sunday was a cracker! You get idiots in all walks of life but it’s good to see these particular idiots widely criticised by the media and fan groups. Not sure that would have happened in the "good old days of the 80s"...

For me, the major issue is fans being priced out of the game - both in ticket prices and Sky subscription.
alanw - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to tony:
> (In reply to alanw)
> [...]
> I'm not sure the type of punishment actually matters too much. With retrospective punishment available, only the very stupid would actually persist with diving. Being cited and shown to be a diver would put a lot of people off doing it.
>
You would hope that sufficient penalties of any sort would eliminate the problem fairly quickly. There would, however, be a transition period and I just think that if you have punishments that managers wouldn't fight against might make it easier to impose. As a Liverpool fan I wouldn't lose too much sleep over a £1m fine for Suarez but a 10 match ban would be a disaster for the whole club.
>
> What about direct free kicks? Would Van Persie have had such a good chance of scoring on Sunday if he'd been 10 yards further out? Or, if a 10-yard rule put the free-kick inside the penalty box, a direct free-kick would become a penalty. That would focus a few minds.

That's kind of my point. In rugby the 10 yard rule has a similar impact wherever it happens on the pitch, getting only slightly more serious the closer you get to the opposition try line. In football it would have little or no impact for much of the pitch but a huge impact once you get within 30 yards of the goal. It would be interesting to know if they did try it out as another poster has suggested.
alanw - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to alanw: Just thinking a bit more about retrospective fines. I wonder what would happen if a player is booked on the pitch for diving but the retrospective evidence shows that he was in fact fouled and should have been awarded a penalty. Could be a bit messy.

Plus, my earlier suggestion of Suarez diving was, of course, purely hypothetical.
tony on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to alanw:
> That's kind of my point. In rugby the 10 yard rule has a similar impact wherever it happens on the pitch, getting only slightly more serious the closer you get to the opposition try line.

Not really - an extra 10 yards when in you're still in your own 22 isn't a very big deal, but an extra 10 yards in the opposition 22 is a completely different kettle of fish. What is interesting is how rarely you see 10 yards being given away, which suggests either that players don't take the risk or referees don't enforce it.

> In football it would have little or no impact for much of the pitch but a huge impact once you get within 30 yards of the goal.

True - that's kind of the point isn't it, if it's to act as a deterrent to ill-discipline. You don't get a lot of backchat to the ref if the defending team gets a free-kick in their own penalty box, but you do get it in a genuinely attacking situation.

> It would be interesting to know if they did try it out as another poster has suggested.

I'm pretty sure it was tried for a season and then scrapped - no idea why.
JamButty - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity: Never been a major footy fan, but over the last few years I detest it for everything already mentioned.
Football can learn a lot from Rugby and give the referees more power. There would be a few games where there were only 8 a side but it would improve discipline.
Also the managers need to lead from the front.

Having said all that its all driven by money.....
Jim C - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Submit to Gravity:
Not me, never likeed the game to play or watch, but I guess all these millions of people can't be wrong !

(But then there are millions of American's that like Rounders. (They call Baseball)
IainRUK - on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to Steve John B:
> (In reply to The New NickB)
> [...]
>
> Good on you for avoiding tribalism in this context - I follow the other team but b*ll*cks to coin-throwing.
>
> [...]
>
> Agree with this too.

Yeah agree too..

i think the game is now much superior to what it was.

All sport are essentially meaningless.. climbing > running > rugby.. but that doesn't stop is going crazy over it.

The last game of last season and Sundays game, for me, whow how good the premier league is. Incredible excitement and great football and drama.
Horse on 12 Dec 2012
In reply to tony:
> (In reply to alanw)
> [...]
>
> Not really - an extra 10 yards when in you're still in your own 22 isn't a very big deal, ...... What is interesting is how rarely you see 10 yards being given away, which suggests either that players don't take the risk or referees don't enforce it.
>

But it is, no longer defending and looking forward to a defensive line out in your own half. Instead the kick is likely to end up deep in the other half with the prospect of high quality, attacking line out ball. It is a heavy price to pay.

Having spent two recent Saturday afternoons listening to Ref Radio at Twickenham I don't think there is much need; clearly one R McCaw is an exception that proves the rule.

Quite why football can't get to grips with dissent and abuse of officials is baffling.


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