/ UKIP now third biggest party?
Or maybe people are gravitating towards a party that takes their concerns seriously rather then just labeling them as closet racists and 'Little Englanders' when they dare to criticize the UKs existing relationship with the EU or immigration policy.
well since it isnt voting time it cant be the latter.
While they have had a fairly significant increase the most significant change seems to be the implosion of the lib dems.
Despite their name, I think they're a predominately English party. They don't seem to have any real presence north of the border. Maybe middle-England is feeling unrepresented?
> Despite their name, I think they're a predominately English party. They don't seem to have any real presence north of the border. Maybe middle-England is feeling unrepresented?
South of the border is not necessarily England.........
while we are on the subject, I basically agree that UKIP is basically an English party, as far as I can see they are also irrelevant in Wales.
I would say that some people are gravitating towards UKIP because they are not a centrist party. For my liking though, they are a bit extreme. If you forget Europe and immigration, if you listen to their rhetoric on crime, you might believe that there are gangs of feral kids on every street corner and that it is not possible to walk on the streets at all without being murdered.
I think that UKIP are to the UK what the Tea Party is to the US. Five years of recession and political uncertainty in Europe has fuelled the insecurity upon with parties like UKIP thrive.
They are the Daily Mail party - the embodiment of cynicism and Little England.
That's no use for my wink bingo though is it? I've already ticked "Little England". I'm looking for "xenophobic" or "clinging to the Empire" and then I'll have a line of cliches. Thanks for "Daily Mail" though.
And hatred of anything that does not fall into their way of thinking.
i aint a fan of UKIP but i think comparing them to the Tea Party lot is a tad unfair.
More a result of political apathy - they hark back to swinging dick thatcherism of 30 years since ago than the mild mannered centrist PPE clones of today. They will force the main parties to have the referrendum on EU membership and then self distruct. Hopefully. Fairly normal to have more 'extreme' parties doing well in times like these - even Miliband is having to fess up to New Labours immigration policy and its effect on education & healthcare.
Too many Muslims mean British children won't be able to use the apostrophe properly. The shame of it all.
> Too many Muslims mean British children won't be able to use the apostrophe properly. The shame of it all.
How could anyone vote for that awful man who leads them ... yuck
So national politics is about personalities then is it? Jesus what incredible choice we have...three grey men.
I find his iconoclastic teasing quite amusing, very erudite, well read. Problem with libertarians is they usually talk the good talk for individual liberty and are quite happy unleash corporate slavery on us all because it works for their philosophic agenda. And like most politicians they are normally on the payroll of someone.
i wonder if people will ever stop misrepresenting this.
They were considered unsuitable for certain children, namely the children of migrants. Now you can argue the rights and wrongs of that but to generalise it out is simply wrong.
Re-read it again, slowly.
Then repeat to yourself "I shall not let pedants wind me up."
England is moving to the right and therefore right wing parties get more votes.
> i wonder if people will ever stop misrepresenting this.
> They were considered unsuitable for certain children, namely the children of migrants. Now you can argue the rights and wrongs of that but to generalise it out is simply wrong.
But this consideration was based on their decision to follow the 3rd biggest political party in a democratic country.
Clearly the fact that they were willing to give so much of there time and themselves to look after these 'immigrant' children who for whatever reason could not be looked after by their own families should have been the important factor in whether they were suitable or not
Effectively this decision is saying that they, and a significant number of other british citizins decision to support a legitimate political party within a democracy is wrong. Personally I wouldn't vote UKIP but I wouldn't expect the 'X' I put on my ballot paper to be able to effect my career prospects or anything else.
That is one way of looking at it - however the Conservative party had to spend a fortune on a P.R. machine to make them look more fluffy & having a social conscience - why else pick Cameron as the leader?
I would agree that the U.K. has moved backwards into Authoritarianism in the last 30 years, the soviet socialist republics of Scotland & Wales haven't escaped this even if you vote for parties that want to buy the electorate so you can feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Same centrist (large goverment), more f**kin rules agenda.
Nah, it's to do with being right wing.
I was hoping a Independent Scotland wouldn't tie itself up within the EU (my political sympathies lie left ward BTW). Seems you are going to vote for more of the same. How ironic.
> Nah, it's to do with being right wing.
Could be worse though, at least they are not Nationalists.... apart from the few who vote BNP.
> England is moving to the right and therefore right wing parties get more votes.
The opinion polls would suggest you're wrong, though I know that doesn't play to a Nationalist meta-narrative about divergent national characters. It's hard to spot any rightwards movement at all in England - probably the reverse if anything. It's just that the previously monolithic right-wing bloc seems to be fragmenting, for whatever reasons, and UKIP is currently prospering from a lot of disaffected ex-Tories.
I haven't actually looked at the polls. Which is bigger? Tories + UKIP + BNP or Labour + Lib Dems.
There clearly is a divergence. A quick look at MPs tells you that.
> I think that UKIP are to the UK what the Tea Party is to
I wonder why I expected your statement was going to end with
Why do you put the Lib Dems with Labour? At present they're in a coalition government with the tories, clarifying to all who doubted it their fundamental right wing nature. So it's more a three cornered situation Tory + lib dems (parliamentary right), UKIP + BNP (far right nationalist), and Labour (centre left - on paper anyway). A bit like the situation in many continental European countries.
> Why do you put the Lib Dems with Labour? At present they're in a coalition government with the tories, clarifying to all who doubted it their fundamental right wing nature.
Nope, it was the only viable coallition. Like Blair and Brown they have been dissapointing in power but people were voting for something else.
> I think that UKIP are to the UK what the Tea Party is to the US. Five years of recession and political uncertainty in Europe has fuelled the insecurity upon with parties like UKIP thrive.
> They are the Daily Mail party - the embodiment of cynicism and Little England.
Well while the left has nothing to offer in debate other than trite unsubstantiated cliché and insult, they will continue to rise. More power to their elbow I say.
Next time could you try to be even more banal? (You could try adding a BNP reference, that may help.)
Only people who hadn't bothered to concern themselves with the history of the party :-)
Con 30% UKIP 10% LibDem 10% Lab 40%, so if you count LibDem as centre/left (a big if - their voters might be, but the party sure ain't) then the maths are clear.
A quick look at MPs in industrial northern England or inner London versus those in the Home Counties will give you as stark a left/right contrast as anything between Scotland and RUK. What do you read into that? For me it suggests that the idea that left-leaning social democracy is somehow hardwired into the Scottish national psyche but not in England's is simply bogus.
Might be a result of disillusion with the Lib Dems after they handed the election over to the tories.
This is what I read into it: Tory MPs in Scotland = 1. UKIP MPs, MSPs, Councillors (I think) = 0.
Conclusion = there is not much support for right wing parties in Scotland.
I think there are a fair few SNP supporters though, so there is a bit of a right wing presence.
I dont and there is no evidence of that either in policy or rhetoric.
> Could be worse though, at least they are not Nationalists.... apart from the few who vote BNP.
But surely you all of all people wouldn't deny that there's a fair bit of support for the SNP in Scotland?
As a Nationalist party you'd have a job to persuade people that a Nationalist party can really be on the left, whatever the window-dressing might pretend, especially as a look at the electoral results in Scotland since oil came along and the Nationalists grew comes from transfer of Tory votes to Nationalist. The Tories didn't just go puff! and disappear, they voted SNP against Labour. Much the same as the UKIP, another nationalist party, comes from a swing to a certain sort of right in England.
Anyway, whatever we may surmise, the result of a growth of the UKIP is good news for Labour, by splitting the right wing vote - just as in France the growth of the National Front has helped the Socialist left.
That's what they said in the 30s in Germany! We shouldn't dramatise but the rise of nationalism is never a healthy sign.
As I see it, UKIP will split the Tory vote, but due to the FPTP system, they will prob get very few, if any seats in parliament. Lib Dems crushed and Labour walk into power next election.
This will result in the Tories having to completely restructure the party away from the centrist stance to a more libertarian stance favoured by the long term Tory supporter. I think it will also bring the EU referendum into focus.
This will hopefully give us, the voting public a broad spectrum of political options rather than the "all blurred into one" choice we have now.
we could look at the % votes cast instead.
16.7% for tories and 0.3 for UKIP for example.
Not overly lacking in support by any standards (well the tories).
> This will result in the Tories having to completely restructure the party away from the centrist stance to a more libertarian stance favoured by the long term Tory supporter.
You reckon? You don't think there's a chance the Tories will run around like headless chickens for a few year like the last time they lost an election and elect someone eminently useless as party leader?
'Tis not I alone, but that depends which web sites you read, or in my case which members of the family I speak to, the Labour ones or the Tartan Tories (their words) ones.
A left wing party cannot, nearly by definition, be a Nationalist party at heart. Universalism and empathy for all people, no matter where they live, is a fundamental part of what being left-wing means, at least in my opinion. If you listen to Marine Le Pen, as you end up doing quite a lot in France at present, she is a Nationalist too but if you took her policies at face value she sounds left wing. Nationalists always function this way... at first.
If they didn't they would call themselves something else and wouldn't wave national flags and blame all their ills on other people... it's the nature of the beast.
What about Biafra?
so if a party aim was to separate from one, small, union and specifically be part of a larger one. Would that count as left-wing enough for you?
I'm sure the powers that be are bricking it...
I just looked up Operation Mayhem. The first couple of searches were about OFSTED inspections of a leisure centre in Rugby. Is that such a terrible thing?
the first rule about OFSTED inspections is you do not talk about them.
Damn! That's me busted then.
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