/ NEWS: VIDEO: Silbergeier with Nina & Cedric

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UKC News - on 27 Dec 2012
Nina Caprez on the perfect limestone of Silbergeier in the Rätikon, Switzerland., 4 kb2 July last year, Nina Caprez became the first woman to repeat Beat Kammerlander's Silbergeier at Rätikon, Switzerland. This is the video about the ascent.
Jack Geldard made an interview with Nina at the time, but in short she says about the ascent that:

The first 8b pitch felt like a 7a warm-up...

Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=67700
Flashman - on 27 Dec 2012
Fun video, can't believe I watched the whole thing. *Maybe* it would have been ok to tone it down a bit in a few spots to show more of the gravity and quality of the climbing - which looked mental in places - but I guess it's nice to see people (video people) doing something a bit different. And Caprez and Lachat are very entertaining subjects.
I did notice one error: at the end that's a Burger King that Lachat abandons Caprez on the descent to go and visit, not a McDonalds. Also that Swiss Burger King serves Red Bull, which is maybe not an error but wow.
jon on 27 Dec 2012
In reply to Flashman:

Hmmm, there's another error - but not as serious as the MacDo/Burger King catastrophe. The subtitles seem to credit Pietro dal Pra with the first ascent. As far as I know he made the fourth ascent.
johncoxmysteriously - on 27 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News:

Hmm - personally I don't really get the look-at-me-I'm-a-dick style, but some people like it, I suppose. Luckily the climbing made up for it.

jcm
dr_botnik - on 27 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News: Thought that was very watchable! had me right till the end! although; there is some bad belaying demonstrated in the vid, i wonder how long before the UKC crowd get fired up over it lol
In reply to UKC News:

Nice vid and great looking route, a nice change from the usual Euro-cave escapades.


Chris
Dean177 - on 28 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News:
I could barely watch. The movie would have been vastly improved if id didnt have cedric in it!
Duncan Campbell - on 28 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News: This made me very happy in my pants. Anyone know what Silbergeier means in English, if there is a meaning in English?

DC
eugeneth - on 28 Dec 2012
In reply to Duncan Campbell: Silver vulture!!! Pretty swish looking place to climb!
henwardian - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News: Loved this video. I guess the over-the-top slapstick could be an aquired taste but personally I laughed the whole way through and enjoyed it.
Climbing looks absolutely amazing and for sport some ridiculous run-outs. If there are easier routes of that kind of rock quality it would look to be an awesome place to go.
AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to henwardian:
>for sport some ridiculous run-outs.

How is this a sport route?

Sparsely bolted, ground up, on the lead. Afaik that would make it a perfectly valid trad climb in e.g. the US of A.

flaneur - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:

Anyone else find Nina and Cedric reminds them of these two?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXeGhIJWG5I
Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:
>
> Sparsely bolted, ground up, on the lead. Afaik that would make it a perfectly valid trad climb in e.g. the US of A.

No, it makes it a sparsely bolted sports climb. (And the style in which they climbed it has no bearing on it - obviously)

Fraser on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to UKC News:

What a really enjoyable film that was. I even think plenty of non-climbers would get something from it.
AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
> (In reply to AlanLittle)
> [...]
>
> No, it makes it a sparsely bolted sports climb.

The point I am making, which you appear to be wilfully ignoring, is that the parochial British definition of the "trad" / "sport" divide is not the only one.

British definition something like: no bolts = "trad", all bolt protected = "sport" unless it's on slate then it might be "trad" depending on how far apart the bolts are. How the bolts got there is immaterial.

US definition as I understand it (I have only climbed in the US once so there may be nuances I'm missing): bolts placed on the rope from above = "sport", no bolts = "trad", bolts placed on the lead without hanging on gear = also definitely "trad", bolts placed on the lead whilst hanging on gear as I assume Kammerlander did = dunno, "gray" area?

Swiss definition - the one that actually applies here = ???
Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Fraser:
> (In reply to UKC News)
>
> What a really enjoyable film that was.

Yes. Despite myself, I even found myself warming to Mr Lachat.
Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> [...]
>
> The point I am making, which you appear to be wilfully ignoring, is that the parochial British definition of the "trad" / "sport" divide is not the only one.

But it is the only sensible one.

> US definition as I understand it (I have only climbed in the US once so there may be nuances I'm missing): bolts placed on the rope from above = "sport", no bolts = "trad", bolts placed on the lead without hanging on gear = also definitely "trad", bolts placed on the lead whilst hanging on gear as I assume Kammerlander did = dunno, "gray" area?

Defining whether a finished "product" is a sport or trad route depending on how it is "produced" is pretty silly when you think about it; two identical routes, one sport, the other trad. But then that's the USA for you!

An arbitrary distance between bolts when a route mysteriously morphs from sport to trad is also pretty daft.

> Swiss definition - the one that actually applies here = ???

Bolts seem so unquestioned in Switzerland, I suspect they may not have a definition.

AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:
>
> Defining whether a finished "product" is a sport or trad route depending on how it is "produced" is pretty silly when you think about it; two identical routes, one sport, the other trad.

But the routes done in the different styles tend to be rather non-identical. I don't think you'd find many people calling the Bachar-Yerian a "sport" route.

> An arbitrary distance between bolts when a route mysteriously morphs from sport to trad is also pretty daft.

Is it? Are Poetry Pink or Massambula "sport" routes? I don't think you'd get many takers. Goose Creature, Colossus, or Heading The Shot? Firmly in the grey area. Geordie War Cry? Definitely sport.

> Bolts seem so unquestioned in Switzerland, I suspect they may not have a definition.

Silbergeier certainly isn't "plaisir".

Robert Durran - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to AlanLittle:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
> But the routes done in the different styles tend to be rather non-identical.

True, but what if they are not?

> I don't think you'd find many people calling the Bachar-Yerian a "sport" route. Are Poetry Pink or Massambula "sport" routes? I don't think you'd get many takers.

I was really thinking of sytematically bolted routes (however spaced), not routes with just the odd bolts at critical points (these are neither one thing nor the other). Not a fan myself.

> Silbergeier certainly isn't "plaisir".

Now that is a term I really dislike!

AlanLittle - on 29 Dec 2012
In reply to Robert Durran:

> > "plaisir"
> Now that is a term I really dislike!

I sympathise, but I actually think it's quite useful if you assume - as the Swiss do - that there will be bolts. "Plaisir" tells us that for some hypothetical average, solid at the grade leader fear is unlikely to be a major factor in success or failure on the route. Whereas on non-plaisir, whether the gear is bolts or something else (or both) head games play a significant role.

I find this quite a useful distinction. If I'm climbing near my limit five metres out from my gear I don't mind if the gear is a bolt or a good friend placement or a solid #8 rock. I know it's going to hold but I still don't want to fall.

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