/ Heel hooking tools while drytooling, fairgame?

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Somerset swede basher - on 12 Jan 2013
Dear drytoolers,
I had a play on some steep roof stuff today and found that when I had a deep hook with my lower tool I could sort of heel hook the handle with a foot to steady myself while clipping then lean back down and pull the tool out to carry on once clipped. Is this fair game or frowned upon? It seems a bit odd that you can use the tools with your hands and not your feet, but then again we do love our rules as climbers! I know drytooling gets a bashing on here fairly regularly but this is a genuine question aimed at those who go drytooling.
Thanks
mcdougal - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I'm don't really know a lot about dry tooling but I've seen film of Kevin Shields performing "figure of four" moves (where the leg is rested on the elbow of the arm that's bearing the weight). That seemed fair game so why not heel hook the axe head?
Somerset swede basher - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to mcdougal:

I used plenty of fig 4s too! I was talking about heel hooking the tool handle then the tool is below you (or level with you if its horizontal)rather than the head.
Thanks
remus - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher: http://www.gravsports.com/Gadfly%20Pages/spurs_are_for_horses.htm

As I understand it (I dont dry tool myself) legs and feet on your tools is generally off limits simply because it makes everything too easy.
Robert Durran - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Not only illegal, but also immoral.
Somerset swede basher - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

Well I'm glad that clears that up then!

The idea came into my head while working on a route that I've not yet done so looks like its going to require a whole load more fig 4s instead!
Robert Durran - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:
> (In reply to Robert Durran)
>
> Well I'm glad that clears that up then!

No it doesn't. I was taking the piss. Sorry.
Somerset swede basher - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Robert Durran:

Lol, oh well. Now should I feel a bit silly...or should you feel a bit of a tw@t, or maybe both, who knows ;-)
ablackett - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher: Do what you want. Nobody else cares.
Somerset swede basher - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to ablackett:

Rock climbing has different styles of ascent (onsight, flash, dogged, toproped, lead etc) each with their own set of rules. As I'm new to Drytooling I'm trying to workout what is the norm is in terms of what's 'allowed'. Just because you don't care doesn't mean nobody does.The original post was an honest question, I had hoped there would be a simple answer!
ice.solo - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Fair game if you admit it.
I see no issue to get the route up. Then work on doing it without. By the sound of it youre using it as a rest more than a pull.

By the way, as one friend of DT to another; these forums are not the best place to ask about about it. Try a euro or yank site where DT is more understood.
Somerset swede basher - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

Thanks, and yes, definately a rest and not a pull, it can be quicker and easier than a fig 4/9 in some places when clipping. Im not wearing heel spurs to do it either, I have clumpy mountain boots with normal crampons rather than fancy fruit boots (which I would love a pair of).
ice.solo - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

Maybe safer too. A fig 4/9 in mtn boots brings crampons very close to some major arteries.
Somerset swede basher - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

Surely no more so than fruit boots? Or did you mean as opposed to rock boots?
ice.solo - on 12 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

the rear teeth on regular crampons, plus an extra few cms of protrusion.
Misha - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:
Never thought of doing this! I'd say it's fair game for the odd move or two. Was this on the Masson M7+ per your logbook or one of the harder routes there? This sort of fancy move or fig 4s aren't really necessary on the M7+ but I can imagine you would do that on Sub Rosa, certainly fig 4s. By the way, I had an email from the guy who put up the M7+, he was thinking of making it a bit less blind!
iksander on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher: A bit like pulling on gear - feet on your tools went the the same way as heel spurs - generally not considered fair game for comps and "headline ascents in good style". Other than that, who cares?
Somerset swede basher - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Misha:

I tried it on Blind Luck and was thinking it might make Sub Rosa a hell of a lot easier.

The M7+ is definately not steep enough or hard enough to need this or any fig 4 moves. For what its worth I think the M7+ is fine as it is. Not just because I've climbed it but genuinely, I think its good now. I don't normally log routes I've done before when I repeat them (like the warm up) or routes I'm workinmg on til a successful redpoint (Blind luck etc).

Somerset swede basher - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to ice.solo:

That makes sense, I didn't realise they didn't have points at the back.
tom290483 - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

It's fair game in my book. Heels spurs are banned.

It's only training. Once you've done it that way do it without. Then get rid of the fig4s and try it that way. Enjoy.

I still need a name for that M7+ at Masson......Heavens Above could be a good shout based on the amount of dodgy blocks on the upper wall waiting to come trundling down!
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tom290483 - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

You wish it was a FA ;-)
Somerset swede basher - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to tom290483:

It did seem unlikely. When I spoke to Si before christmas he said it hadnt been done yet and I noticed it hadn't been logged so I figured it was possible.
tom290483 - on 13 Jan 2013
In reply to Somerset swede basher:

I climb it a few months after it was bolted but never put any details up about it as it felt awkward and not really what i was aiming for when i started bolting/drilling placements. Planned on finishing it off this winter but just not got round to it.

I told chevis it had been done ages ago bit hes got a memory like a siv.
philhilo - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to tom290483: Heavens Above seems appropriate - when we were on it I was doing a merry dance whilst belaying to avoid the rubble coming off at regular intervals. One house brick sized lump nearly folded Mishas clip stick in half as it was lying between two blocks!
tom290483 - on 15 Jan 2013
In reply to philhilo:

I moved quite a bit of rock out from the gully/grotty corner above the line before bolting but i was scared to touch some of the blocks based on the fact that they looked to be holding up even bigger blocks!

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